Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [GnosticThought] Re: of Abolutes SUE

Expand Messages
  • Penndragon
    MM Sue ... To the point of obsession actually, and that aint healthy. ... That s the reason I stopped responding to him earlier. The incessant need to be right
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      MM Sue


      > Max,
      >
      > You really are hung up on this "right" and "wrong" thing, arent' you?

      To the point of obsession actually, and that aint healthy.

      > In fact, so much so, that you have to be "right". If so, this is how
      > you measure your worth and the worth of others. Do you realize this?
      > For you to be "right", someone has to be "wrong". By no definition
      > is this "honoring" another. Do you realize this?
      > I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what you call Reality
      > cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN. It is something that I am
      > AWARE of through experience, and though I would love to share this
      > experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so. It is something
      > you will need to "experience" for yourself in order to be
      > AWARE "yourself". No amount of talking on your part will change MY
      > experience. Plain and simple.
      > If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you will then see that
      > your arguments hold no water, nor will you desire to need to
      > be "right" any longer, because you will no longer FEAR anything, and
      > being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to you either. Until
      > then, there is no need in continuing this discussion, as you did with
      > Penn. As I said before, there is nothing to be "won" here.
      > May God bless you and make His face to shine upon you and give you
      > peace!
      > Love,
      > Sue
      >

      That's the reason I stopped responding to him earlier. The incessant need to
      be right to the point of ignoring what the other said and turning it to suit
      his needs instead :( You can keep arguing with them and waste energy, or
      chose not to waste that energy. I bear no mallice to him, just don't see the
      point in continuing as you have just stated.

      MP
      Penn
    • Penndragon
      MM Hon ... Yes she does hon. An allussion to the Gnostic way (and often in the other religions) of seeing our nature. Our physical bodies being but a vehicle
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        MM Hon



        > > I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what
        > > you call Reality
        > > cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN. It is
        > > something that I am
        > > AWARE of through experience, and though I would love
        > > to share this
        > > experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so.
        >
        > sue baby do u realize what u are saying?

        Yes she does hon. An allussion to the Gnostic way (and often in the other
        religions) of seeing our nature. Our physical bodies being but a vehicle for
        the soul, and the soul being who we are in the same sense as the driver of a
        car. So whilst someone can kill my body, they can't actually kill me. This
        is what Sue is getting at.

        > i understand and appreciate your position..
        > however r u a mum?
        > when someone u love dies it is so real your entire
        > reality disintegrates..anyone can postulate in theory
        > but LIVE it <sobs>
        > If u mean eternal life that i appreciate as well but
        > that does NOT lesson the agony...
        >

        This I understand as well luv. But a certain understanding can lessen this
        agony to a degree. When my Mum died, It wasn't the death of her body I
        mourned. Afterall, she's still very much alive to my understanding. I
        mourned the loss of her from my life, and the pain of this in the lives of
        all who knew her as well. I still miss her, but I've also come to realise
        that I shouldn't as she's also still with me, just not physically anymore.

        > > It is something
        > > you will need to "experience" for yourself in order
        > > to be
        > > AWARE "yourself". No amount of talking on your part
        > > will change MY
        > > experience. Plain and simple.
        >
        > and that is your right sue my sis ((((())))))
        > this is not a list of conversion and u go girlie with
        > your knowledgeable self <teeeheee>
        >
        > > If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you
        > > will then see that
        > > your arguments hold no water
        >
        > I disagree <although I understand more than u know>
        > his reality is as relevent as yours
        >

        I agree here sweety, just that Max has been trying to push his reality as
        everyone elses. This is what Sue is trying to show doesn't hold water. Max
        is unwilling to see anything else as right if it doesn't fit his perception
        of right he straight away is willing to tell you that you are wrong without
        even attempting to understand what is said :(

        > , nor will you desire to
        > > need to
        > > be "right" any longer, because you will no longer
        > > FEAR anything, and
        > > being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to
        > > you either. Until
        > > then, there is no need in continuing this
        > > discussion, as you did with
        > > Penn.
        >
        > <side bar...i love penn *grin*>

        And Penn loves his hon ;)

        >good to agree to
        > disagree however u both <imo> are on the same page...u
        > hit a raw nerve sue is all....
        >

        That's possible hon. Max is also showing something beyond the perceived raw
        nerve you've seen (I've seen it as well, but I can also see other things due
        to my studies of psychiatry), He also shows a number of insecurities in
        certain areas.

        > As I said before, there is nothing to be
        > > "won" here.
        >
        > agreed...*playfully hucks a mud pie at sue*...runs
        > away screaming lol
        >
        > > May God bless you and make His face to shine upon
        > > you and give you
        > > peace!
        > > Love,
        > > Sue
        > BB
        > Lyric

        MP
        Penn
      • GeorgeHarvey2621@cs.com
        In a message dated 9/30/01 10:04:47 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Hi Sue, Good answer. Thank you. George
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 9/30/01 10:04:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
          abraxis3@... writes:

          > Max,
          >
          > You really are hung up on this "right" and "wrong" thing, arent' you?
          > In fact, so much so, that you have to be "right". If so, this is how
          > you measure your worth and the worth of others. Do you realize this?
          > For you to be "right", someone has to be "wrong". By no definition
          > is this "honoring" another. Do you realize this?
          > I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what you call Reality
          > cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN. It is something that I am
          > AWARE of through experience, and though I would love to share this
          > experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so. It is something
          > you will need to "experience" for yourself in order to be
          > AWARE "yourself". No amount of talking on your part will change MY
          > experience. Plain and simple.
          > If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you will then see that
          > your arguments hold no water, nor will you desire to need to
          > be "right" any longer, because you will no longer FEAR anything, and
          > being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to you either. Until
          > then, there is no need in continuing this discussion, as you did with
          > Penn. As I said before, there is nothing to be "won" here.
          > May God bless you and make His face to shine upon you and give you
          > peace!
          > Love,
          > Sue

          Hi Sue,
          Good answer. Thank you.

          George
        • Tropism1@aol.com
          SUE: Max, You really are hung up on this right and wrong thing, arent you? In fact, so much so, that you have to be right . If so, this is how you
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            SUE:
            Max,
            You really are hung up on this "right" and "wrong" thing, arent' you?
            In fact, so much so, that you have to be "right". If so, this is how
            you measure your worth and the worth of others. Do you realize this?

            MAX:
            Well, Sue, i obviously measure human worth a whole lot higher than you do.
            You don't even think it's wrong to murder someone.


            SUE:
            For you to be "right", someone has to be "wrong". By no definition
            is this "honoring" another. Do you realize this?

            MAX:
            And just who do *you* honor, Sue, when you say it's not wrong for a man to
            have sex with his own daughter or to beat his wife into a coma?


            SUE:
            I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what you call Reality
            cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN.

            MAX:
            If death isn't real, then you'd better notify the funeral homes, casket
            makers and cemeteries.
            Hey, why don't you come down and wake up my cousin?
            (He thinks he's dead, you know.)


            SUE:
            It is something that I am AWARE of through experience, and though I would
            love to share this experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so. It
            is something
            you will need to "experience" for yourself in order to be AWARE "yourself".
            No amount of talking on your part will change MY experience. Plain and
            simple.

            MAX:
            My Mother had a dear death experience, Sue. (if that's what you're talking
            about)
            She said she could see the doctors working on her. And contrary to what you
            might think, i do believe in the spiritual, but whether or not my Mom
            actually did see what she said or was just hallucinating, i don't know, but i
            do know that she didn't come back telling people to ''do as they please
            'cause god doesn't mind if we worship ourselves at the expense of others.''


            SUE:
            If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you will then see that
            your arguments hold no water, nor will you desire to need to
            be "right" any longer, because you will no longer FEAR anything, and
            being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to you either.

            MAX:
            Sue, i pray that i never become so full of my self that i abandon what's
            right and wrong for self worship and fantasy.
            I hope i always fear becoming so cold and selfish as to tell my kids that
            nothing they ever do to another person is wrong.
            You can keep your self worship, Sue. For me, the cost of accepting it would
            be far to high on my family and friends.


            SUE:
            Until then, there is no need in continuing this discussion, as you did with
            Penn. As I said before, there is nothing to be "won" here.

            MAX:
            Not with you, anyway. All you see is your imagination and self.
            But don't mind *me* poking around here, Sue. Just go back to stealing bits
            and pieces from other religions and changing their meanings around until you
            make them fit what you want them to say.


            SUE:
            May God bless you and make His face to shine upon you and give you
            peace!
            Love,
            Sue

            MAX:
            And may God curse you and keep his face away from you and give you
            war!
            Hate,
            max

            Hey? Why not? There's no rights or wrongs in God's world....right Sue? : )
          • GeorgeHarvey2621@cs.com
            In a message dated 10/1/01 12:28:34 PM Central Daylight Time, ... OK Max, Don t go putting words in other people s mouth. There is a difference between wrong,
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 10/1/01 12:28:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
              Tropism1@... writes:

              >
              > MAX:
              > Well, Sue, i obviously measure human worth a whole lot higher than you do.
              > You don't even think it's wrong to murder someone.

              OK Max,
              Don't go putting words in other people's mouth. There is a difference between
              wrong, wrong for humans and absolute wrong. If you can't see that it is just
              too bad, but that does not mean you can't be nice.

              George
            • Penndragon
              MM George ... do. ... between ... just ... I see you ve spotted it now as well. And I concur with your thought above. It s basically what we ve been telling
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                MM George


                > In a message dated 10/1/01 12:28:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
                > Tropism1@... writes:
                >
                > >
                > > MAX:
                > > Well, Sue, i obviously measure human worth a whole lot higher than you
                do.
                > > You don't even think it's wrong to murder someone.
                >
                > OK Max,
                > Don't go putting words in other people's mouth. There is a difference
                between
                > wrong, wrong for humans and absolute wrong. If you can't see that it is
                just
                > too bad, but that does not mean you can't be nice.
                >
                > George
                >

                I see you've spotted it now as well. And I concur with your thought above.
                It's basically what we've been telling him the whole time and it appears he
                simply doesn't want to see beyond his own view and so shuts it out as a
                valid view.

                MP
                Penn
              • BitsyCat1@aol.com
                In a message dated 10/1/01 1:39:22 PM, penn.dragon@iname.com writes:
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 10/1/01 1:39:22 PM, penn.dragon@... writes:

                  << he
                  simply doesn't want to see beyond his own view and so shuts it out as a
                  valid view. >>

                  WEll PEnn AS I previously noted this is to be expected from a personal
                  perspective
                  a perceived anger at an injustice done ones family etc etc
                  Regard johnmoon3717@...
                • Penndragon
                  MM John ... True. As it can for a good many reasons. MP Penn
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    MM John


                    >
                    > In a message dated 10/1/01 1:39:22 PM, penn.dragon@... writes:
                    >
                    > << he
                    > simply doesn't want to see beyond his own view and so shuts it out as a
                    > valid view. >>
                    >
                    > WEll PEnn AS I previously noted this is to be expected from a personal
                    > perspective
                    > a perceived anger at an injustice done ones family etc etc
                    > Regard johnmoon3717@...
                    >

                    True. As it can for a good many reasons.

                    MP
                    Penn
                  • GeorgeHarvey2621@cs.com
                    In a message dated 10/1/01 1:37:44 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Hi Penn, I have been letting a lot slide so he could get his point across. I think in the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 10/1/01 1:37:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      penn.dragon@... writes:

                      >
                      > I see you've spotted it now as well. And I concur with your thought above.
                      > It's basically what we've been telling him the whole time and it appears he
                      > simply doesn't want to see beyond his own view and so shuts it out as a
                      > valid view.
                      >
                      > MP
                      > Penn

                      Hi Penn,
                      I have been letting a lot slide so he could get his point across. I think in
                      the interest of peace on the list he now needs to accept that there are those
                      who disagree with him.

                      George
                    • abraxis3@yahoo.com
                      Hi Penn, Thank you, Penn. This is why I responded to Max the way I did the first time. (And Max, this is just as much for you as it is for Penn) I am well
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 1, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Penn,
                        Thank you, Penn. This is why I responded to Max the way I did the
                        first time. (And Max, this is just as much for you as it is for Penn)
                        I am well aware of the "intention" behind the posts of late,
                        and it has NOTHING to do with "healing". The only way a person
                        that has not discovered their "own" inner power can feel powerful is
                        to "take" another's energy by engaging in psychological
                        battle...attempting to make the other "responsible" for their
                        feelings, perceptions, etc., and if this doesn't work, then pointing
                        out how one must feel responsible for "others" perceptions, beliefs,
                        etc. Some people are simply "addicted" to this form of
                        communication, and as with every addiction, only that person's
                        efforts will change it...no one can do it for them.
                        It may or may not be a "conscious" act, but the underlying
                        "intention" is th same regardless. Since I have learned that I am
                        not "responsible" for how others perceive things, I have more energy
                        and peace in my life. I "intend" to keep it that way!!!
                        Compassion, contrary to popular belief, does not require sacrifice of
                        one's essence...giving up of "self"...to be "accepted" by others. I
                        have not "insisted" that Max see things the way I do as he has. HE
                        approached me, and I acknowledged this and responded truthfully, and
                        in doing so I honored him; and beyond that I am not responsible for
                        his feelings regarding how I honor myself.
                        When one person attempts to make another feel responsible for "their"
                        feelings, "their" perceptions and "their" fears, they are not finding
                        their "own" center. To continue "attacking" another is not personal
                        responsibility, and when another will not take responsibility
                        for that person, and that person becomes even angrier, it is their
                        "own" choice to do so. When each person takes responsibily for their
                        own thoughts, words and deeds, there will no longer be events of
                        rape, killing and the Twin Towers. Focusing on "right" and "wrong"
                        will never HEAL the situation.
                        I am well aware of the fact that when you refused to engage in it
                        any longer, Penn, that I was "next" on the list, and I do appreciate
                        your concern.
                        I feel no ill-will toward's Max. He is where he is meant to be at
                        this time, as are the rest of us. What he "gets" from these
                        exchanges is "his" responsibility. It's for "him" to choose, as do
                        the rest of us to make "our own" choices.
                        As I've said before, LOVE for another does not require that I give up
                        WHO I AM in order to be what someone else WANTS ME TO BE.
                        Love,
                        Sue

                        --- In GnosticThought@y..., "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@i...> wrote:
                        > MM Sue
                        >
                        >
                        > > Max,
                        > >
                        > > You really are hung up on this "right" and "wrong" thing, arent'
                        you?
                        >
                        > To the point of obsession actually, and that aint healthy.
                        >
                        > > In fact, so much so, that you have to be "right". If so, this is
                        how
                        > > you measure your worth and the worth of others. Do you realize
                        this?
                        > > For you to be "right", someone has to be "wrong". By no
                        definition
                        > > is this "honoring" another. Do you realize this?
                        > > I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what you call Reality
                        > > cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN. It is something that I
                        am
                        > > AWARE of through experience, and though I would love to share this
                        > > experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so. It is
                        something
                        > > you will need to "experience" for yourself in order to be
                        > > AWARE "yourself". No amount of talking on your part will change
                        MY
                        > > experience. Plain and simple.
                        > > If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you will then see
                        that
                        > > your arguments hold no water, nor will you desire to need to
                        > > be "right" any longer, because you will no longer FEAR anything,
                        and
                        > > being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to you either.
                        Until
                        > > then, there is no need in continuing this discussion, as you did
                        with
                        > > Penn. As I said before, there is nothing to be "won" here.
                        > > May God bless you and make His face to shine upon you and give you
                        > > peace!
                        > > Love,
                        > > Sue
                        > >
                        >
                        > That's the reason I stopped responding to him earlier. The
                        incessant need to
                        > be right to the point of ignoring what the other said and turning
                        it to suit
                        > his needs instead :( You can keep arguing with them and waste
                        energy, or
                        > chose not to waste that energy. I bear no mallice to him, just
                        don't see the
                        > point in continuing as you have just stated.
                        >
                        > MP
                        > Penn
                      • Penndragon
                        MM George ... above. ... appears he ... in ... those ... Once again I concur. It s best to agree to disagree. Hopefully Max will realise something I said a
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 2, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          MM George


                          > In a message dated 10/1/01 1:37:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
                          > penn.dragon@... writes:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I see you've spotted it now as well. And I concur with your thought
                          above.
                          > > It's basically what we've been telling him the whole time and it
                          appears he
                          > > simply doesn't want to see beyond his own view and so shuts it out as a
                          > > valid view.
                          > >
                          > > MP
                          > > Penn
                          >
                          > Hi Penn,
                          > I have been letting a lot slide so he could get his point across. I think
                          in
                          > the interest of peace on the list he now needs to accept that there are
                          those
                          > who disagree with him.
                          >
                          > George
                          >

                          Once again I concur. It's best to agree to disagree. Hopefully Max will
                          realise something I said a while back on this list. One persons Gnosis need
                          not be a measure that either confirms nor denies anothers, eg. Max's Gnosis
                          (he may not realise he uses it in his approach) need not confirm or deny
                          ours just as ours need not confirm or deny his no matter how at odds they
                          may appear. Gnosis being derived from personal experience afterall, and
                          everyone has differing personal experience.

                          MP
                          Penn
                        • Penndragon
                          MM Sue Well said, and I concur wholeheartedly. I bear no malice to Max either. I m hoping he comes to realise that this isn t a place to prove something to
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 2, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            MM Sue

                            Well said, and I concur wholeheartedly. I bear no malice to Max either. I'm
                            hoping he comes to realise that this isn't a place to prove something to
                            each other, just a place to share. We have no need to convert him to our
                            ways of thinking on any subject and actually respect his views. So Max. if
                            you're listening in on this, relax, don't try and make us see something you
                            see as that simply doesn't work in real life. None of us are trying to
                            convert you to our way of thinking. You said you wanted to learn how
                            Gnostics view things. Then ask Q's without judging and you'll learn how we
                            think. You don't need to believe something in relation to you based upon our
                            Gnosis'.

                            MP
                            Penn


                            > Hi Penn,
                            > Thank you, Penn. This is why I responded to Max the way I did the
                            > first time. (And Max, this is just as much for you as it is for Penn)
                            > I am well aware of the "intention" behind the posts of late,
                            > and it has NOTHING to do with "healing". The only way a person
                            > that has not discovered their "own" inner power can feel powerful is
                            > to "take" another's energy by engaging in psychological
                            > battle...attempting to make the other "responsible" for their
                            > feelings, perceptions, etc., and if this doesn't work, then pointing
                            > out how one must feel responsible for "others" perceptions, beliefs,
                            > etc. Some people are simply "addicted" to this form of
                            > communication, and as with every addiction, only that person's
                            > efforts will change it...no one can do it for them.
                            > It may or may not be a "conscious" act, but the underlying
                            > "intention" is th same regardless. Since I have learned that I am
                            > not "responsible" for how others perceive things, I have more energy
                            > and peace in my life. I "intend" to keep it that way!!!
                            > Compassion, contrary to popular belief, does not require sacrifice of
                            > one's essence...giving up of "self"...to be "accepted" by others. I
                            > have not "insisted" that Max see things the way I do as he has. HE
                            > approached me, and I acknowledged this and responded truthfully, and
                            > in doing so I honored him; and beyond that I am not responsible for
                            > his feelings regarding how I honor myself.
                            > When one person attempts to make another feel responsible for "their"
                            > feelings, "their" perceptions and "their" fears, they are not finding
                            > their "own" center. To continue "attacking" another is not personal
                            > responsibility, and when another will not take responsibility
                            > for that person, and that person becomes even angrier, it is their
                            > "own" choice to do so. When each person takes responsibily for their
                            > own thoughts, words and deeds, there will no longer be events of
                            > rape, killing and the Twin Towers. Focusing on "right" and "wrong"
                            > will never HEAL the situation.
                            > I am well aware of the fact that when you refused to engage in it
                            > any longer, Penn, that I was "next" on the list, and I do appreciate
                            > your concern.
                            > I feel no ill-will toward's Max. He is where he is meant to be at
                            > this time, as are the rest of us. What he "gets" from these
                            > exchanges is "his" responsibility. It's for "him" to choose, as do
                            > the rest of us to make "our own" choices.
                            > As I've said before, LOVE for another does not require that I give up
                            > WHO I AM in order to be what someone else WANTS ME TO BE.
                            > Love,
                            > Sue
                            >
                            > --- In GnosticThought@y..., "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@i...> wrote:
                            > > MM Sue
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Max,
                            > > >
                            > > > You really are hung up on this "right" and "wrong" thing, arent'
                            > you?
                            > >
                            > > To the point of obsession actually, and that aint healthy.
                            > >
                            > > > In fact, so much so, that you have to be "right". If so, this is
                            > how
                            > > > you measure your worth and the worth of others. Do you realize
                            > this?
                            > > > For you to be "right", someone has to be "wrong". By no
                            > definition
                            > > > is this "honoring" another. Do you realize this?
                            > > > I KNOW that death is not REAL, Max, and that what you call Reality
                            > > > cannot harm me or anyone IN THE LONG RUN. It is something that I
                            > am
                            > > > AWARE of through experience, and though I would love to share this
                            > > > experience with you, it is beyond my power to do so. It is
                            > something
                            > > > you will need to "experience" for yourself in order to be
                            > > > AWARE "yourself". No amount of talking on your part will change
                            > MY
                            > > > experience. Plain and simple.
                            > > > If and when you become AWARE of this yourself, you will then see
                            > that
                            > > > your arguments hold no water, nor will you desire to need to
                            > > > be "right" any longer, because you will no longer FEAR anything,
                            > and
                            > > > being "right" or "wrong" will no longer matter to you either.
                            > Until
                            > > > then, there is no need in continuing this discussion, as you did
                            > with
                            > > > Penn. As I said before, there is nothing to be "won" here.
                            > > > May God bless you and make His face to shine upon you and give you
                            > > > peace!
                            > > > Love,
                            > > > Sue
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > That's the reason I stopped responding to him earlier. The
                            > incessant need to
                            > > be right to the point of ignoring what the other said and turning
                            > it to suit
                            > > his needs instead :( You can keep arguing with them and waste
                            > energy, or
                            > > chose not to waste that energy. I bear no mallice to him, just
                            > don't see the
                            > > point in continuing as you have just stated.
                            > >
                            > > MP
                            > > Penn
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            ****************************************************************************
                            ************************
                            >
                            > ######## Join us in meditation Thursdays at 8:00 pm EDT. #######
                            >
                            > Addresses:
                            > Post message: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subscribe: GnosticThought-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Unsubscribe: GnosticThought-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > List owner: GnosticThought-owner@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.