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354RE: [GermanSpecialinterest] Abbreviation from baptismal entry

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  • Shamal Eladril
    Jul 12, 2011

      Thank you for your response.  I did not say or mean to imply that the birth of the individual was 1850.  I do not know what the abbreviation is or what the date may be, refer to, or mean, which is why I posted to the group hoping that someone else had run across this abbreviation before.  It is not clear to me that it is a death date either for that matter, and I rather doubt that it is.

      My best guess at this point is that the abbreviation and date may refer to when he became a "full citizen."  There were other entries in the full transcription of records that had the phrases such as "Freitag 1.Dez.offentlich mit ganzer Schule" and "Montag 28. fruh ganze Schule", which translate literally as "Friday, 1 December, publicly with the entire school" and "Monday 28th, early [morning] the entire school."  I do not believe that in the context of these death entries that Schule here means "school," because these phrases were used in death entries for Carl Hermann's parents.  I suspect the true translation of these phrases is something more like "public burial" or "public funeral" with Schule referring somehow to the citizenry or the public.  The reason for this belief is that I found an obscure synonym in a German-English dictionary for Schule meaning citizenship.  From this, I "guessed" that the abbreviation Sch. might have been an abbreviation for Schule, but in this case referring to citizenship, so I am guessing the abbreviation may refer to the date that Carl Hermann because a full citizen of the town of Glauchau, but I have no way of being sure.

      The problem with using a modern dictionary to translate words and phrases that are more than 160 years old is that the meanings (and context) of words and phrases changes with time. It would be nice if a German-English dictionary 150 years old were available to better clarify word meanings that may have changed with time.  I simply do not know what "Schule" may have meant in the context of a death entry more than 160 years old or if the meaning then even remotely corresponds to the contemporary meaning.

      In any case, my best guess at present is that it refers to a date he became a full citizen, and given his birthdate being in 1833, and the year of the abbreviation being 1850, he would have been around 17 years old at the time, so its entirely possible that that would be the age of full citizenship, but again, I do not know enough about that history to be sure.

      I do appreciate your response and taking the time to look at it.

      Peter Lessing

      To: GermanSpecialinterest@yahoogroups.com
      From: chscism@...
      Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:18:10 -0700
      Subject: Re: [GermanSpecialinterest] Abbreviation from baptismal entry

      I don't know about your abbreviation, but if the baptism was 1833 how could the birth be 1850?  Could that be a death date.  I've never seen a record like this, but have seen a death date listed under the baptism date in some evangelical records.

      --- On Wed, 6/29/11, mikemctoo <shamale@...> wrote:

      From: mikemctoo <shamale@...>
      Subject: [GermanSpecialinterest] Abbreviation from baptismal entry
      To: GermanSpecialinterest@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:31 PM


      I recently received a letter in response to one I wrote to a church in Glauchau, Saxony, requesting transcriptions of entries from the St. Georgen Church churchbook. I am in the process of translating the letter into English, and have been stumped by an abbreviation. I have checked numerous sources available to me to determine the meaning of the abbreviation but have thus far come up empty.

      The full entry written in German is as follows:

      *1833/8 8.1 Carl Hermann 9tes Kind (Geb.Sch. 30.4.50)

      the * is a symbol indicating that this is a baptismal entry, 1833 is the year, the 8 after the / indicates it is the 8th entry for the year, 8.1 indicates the baptism (or most likely the birthdate) of the child took place January 8th. The child's name is Carl Hermann [Härtel], and he was the 9th child. It is the abbreviations in the parenthesis that have me stumped, or at least one of them. I am pretty sure that the Geb. is an abbreviation for geboren or 'born' and the 30.4.50 is a date, April 30, 1850, however the abbreviation Sch. I cannot figure out.

      Was wondering if anyone on the board may have run across this abbreviation before and knows its meaning?

      Thank you.

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