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Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Red birds

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  • Recio Joaquin
    Hi everybody,   Could the Black Cockatoos be also an example of the inhibitory effect of melanocytes on peripheral psittacin expression? Could we ever get a
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2013
      Hi everybody,
      Could the Black Cockatoos be also an example of the inhibitory effect of melanocytes on peripheral psittacin expression? Could we ever get a red Black Cockatoo by working with pied mutations? ... vey probably.

      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Red birds
      Hi Wessel,
      I am not saying that the wild African Grey shows any red psittacin, but that he owns all the enzymatic machinery necessary to produce it and that this system is bloqued in the wild bird by the presence of melanocytes at the feather follicle. Thus when melanocytes disappear or do not function correctly (dom and rec pieds) the system is not further blocked and red psittacin is produced. I postulated that this block is due to a possible paracrine inhibitory factor (PIF) produced by the melanocytes.
      About the red suffusion ... it is a feature of opaline mutation and I will try to show that both, melanocyte control of red psittacin production and opaline mutation, could act on the same final efector system.
      We know that Opaline mutation increases the production of yellow and red psittacins. We have also shown that a decrease in paracrine inhibitory factor (PIF) for red psittacin synthesis (because of a lack of melanocytes at the feather follicle) produce the same effect : increased red psittacin production (see attached file). Could both possibilities be, in fact, the same process? Could Opaline mutation act through a decrease in the production of PIF by the melanocytes? If it was the case the redness produced by Opaline would always be lower than the redness produced by DF dom pied (whenever DF dom pied completely eliminates melanocytes from the feather follicle), or we could also say that both "redness" would not be additif. Does anybody know any species in which the combination of DF dom pied mutation (producing a completelly black eye clear bird with some red psittacin) with Opaline produces a bird with a higher amount of red psittacin? ... or the addition of Opaline is not enough to increase redness in a DF dom pied bird?
      The other possibility is that Opaline directly activates the enzyme transforming yellow psittacin in red psittacin. In this situation the action of both, pied mutation(s) and opaline, would be additif ... and we could reasonably hope to get a red IRN by adding both mutations. I do not know if those combinations have been obtained in any species. Any idea?
      A last possibility is that Opaline increases the amount in the disponibility of yellow psittacins, and thus it would induce an increase in red psittacin production (threshold effect similar to the production of red psittacin in the ring of IRN). In this case we would also find an additif affect of Pied(s) and Opaline in the production of red psittacins ... together with an increase in the production of yellow psittacins.
      A last thougth : could also edged be present in the wild African Grey? Have a look at his feathers ... they really look edged.

      From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 9:29 AM
      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Red birds
      Hello: Have feathers of red African Greys been researched and is it proven that they indeed contain red psittacin ? Does the same hold true for "red suffusion" found in several other birdspecies ? Wessel van der Veen.
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