Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

Expand Messages
  • wstobart@bigpond.com
    Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have
    Message 1 of 28 , Jul 1, 2011
      Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

      ------------------------------------------
      From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
      I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
      Regards, Chris
      Ph: 0415 870 336
      http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
      ----------------------------------------
      From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
      Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
      Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
      Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
      ------------------------------------------
      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
      Hi,
      That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
      If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
      Recio
      From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
      Hello:
      Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
      And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
      containing melanin:
      locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
      par-blue birds) or
      of white (in blue birds).
      Wessel van der Veen.
    • Recio Joaquin
      Hi Willy,   The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied
      Message 2 of 28 , Jul 3, 2011
        Hi Willy,
         
        The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
         
        Recio

        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
        Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

         
        Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

        ------------------------------------------
        From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
        I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
        Regards, Chris
        Ph: 0415 870 336
        http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
        ----------------------------------------
        From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
        Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
        Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
        Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
        ------------------------------------------
        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
        Hi,
        That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
        If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
        Recio
        From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
        Hello:
        Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
        And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
        containing melanin:
        locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
        par-blue birds) or
        of white (in blue birds).
        Wessel van der Veen.


      • Stefan Adam
        See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others. ________________________________ Von: Recio Joaquin An:
        Message 3 of 28 , Jul 3, 2011
          See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.




          Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
          An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
          Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
          Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

           
          Hi Willy,
           
          The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
           
          Recio

          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
          Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

           
          Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

          ------------------------------------------
          From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
          I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
          Regards, Chris
          Ph: 0415 870 336
          http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
          ----------------------------------------
          From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
          To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
          Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
          Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
          Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
          ------------------------------------------
          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
          Hi,
          That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
          If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
          Recio
          From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
          Hello:
          Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
          And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
          containing melanin:
          locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
          par-blue birds) or
          of white (in blue birds).
          Wessel van der Veen.


        • Chris Whipps
          G,Day Recio,The emeroldgrey dom pied may be masking cobalt and poss split cleartail as well , this may explain some colour differances as well [I dont think
          Message 4 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
            G,Day Recio,The emeroldgrey dom pied may be masking cobalt and poss split cleartail as well , this may explain some colour differances as well [I dont think personally these would cause any colour changes You should realise that most countryies have only 1 mutation  EG Australia has dom pieds but no reseive , South Africa has res ,. But no dom pied and so on
             
             
            Regards, Chris
            Ph: 0415 870 336

            http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au



            From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
            Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:53 AM
            To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians


             

            Hi Willy,
             
            The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
             
            Recio

            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
            Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

             
            Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

            ------------------------------------------
            From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
            I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
            Regards, Chris
            Ph: 0415 870 336
            http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
            ----------------------------------------
            From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
            Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
            To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
            Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
            Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
            Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
            ------------------------------------------
            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
            Hi,
            That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
            If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
            Recio
            From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
            Hello:
            Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
            And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
            containing melanin:
            locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
            par-blue birds) or
            of white (in blue birds).
            Wessel van der Veen.



          • Chris Whipps
            G,Day Recio , The white pied markings would be replaced by the effects of the emerold a simalar effect also from tourquise .Added 1 photo of my
            Message 5 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
              G,Day Recio , The white pied markings would be replaced by the effects of the emerold a simalar effect also from tourquise
              .Added 1 photo of my pastle[tourquise] dom pied1 photo of Garys emerold dom pied Plus 1 photo of some dom pieds im selling [sold] to show there markings
              Regards, Chris
              Ph: 0415 870 336

              http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au



              From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:53 AM
              To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians


               

              Hi Willy,
               
              The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
               
              Recio

              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
              Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

               
              Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

              ------------------------------------------
              From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
              I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
              Regards, Chris
              Ph: 0415 870 336
              http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
              ----------------------------------------
              From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
              Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
              To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
              Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
              Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
              Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
              ------------------------------------------
              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
              Hi,
              That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
              If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
              Recio
              From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
              Hello:
              Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
              And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
              containing melanin:
              locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
              par-blue birds) or
              of white (in blue birds).
              Wessel van der Veen.



            • Stefan Adam
              Hi Chris, South Africa has res ,. But no dom pied and so on - Not true at all. As you know Tienie is working with a dom. pied branch. But it s another dom.
              Message 6 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
                Hi Chris,

                "South Africa has res ,. But no dom pied and so on" - Not true at all. As you know Tienie is working with a dom. pied branch. But it's another dom. pied mutation and not the dom. pied known in Australia (harlequin).

                greetings.

                S. Adam


                Von: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                An: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Juli 2011, 9:32:47 Uhr
                Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                 

                G,Day Recio,The emeroldgrey dom pied may be masking cobalt and poss split cleartail as well , this may explain some colour differances as well [I dont think personally these would cause any colour changes You should realise that most countryies have only 1 mutation  EG Australia has dom pieds but no reseive , South Africa has res ,. But no dom pied and so on

                 
                 
                Regards, Chris
                Ph: 0415 870 336

                http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au



                From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:53 AM
                To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians


                 

                Hi Willy,
                 
                The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                 
                Recio

                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                 
                Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

                ------------------------------------------
                From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                Regards, Chris
                Ph: 0415 870 336
                http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                ----------------------------------------
                From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                ------------------------------------------
                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                Hi,
                That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                Recio
                From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                Hello:
                Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                containing melanin:
                locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                par-blue birds) or
                of white (in blue birds).
                Wessel van der Veen.



              • Glenn Scarborough
                Hey Madas, What are the mutations of the birds in the picture thats unnamed, they look like they have a rosellas patern/markings on the wings? Thanks Glenn
                Message 7 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
                  Hey Madas,
                   
                  What are the mutations of the birds in the picture thats unnamed, they look like they have a rosellas patern/markings on the wings?
                   
                  Thanks Glenn


                  From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 3:44:45 PM
                  Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                   

                  See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.




                  Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                  An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                  Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                  Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                   
                  Hi Willy,
                   
                  The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                   
                  Recio

                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                  Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                   
                  Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

                  ------------------------------------------
                  From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                  I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                  Regards, Chris
                  Ph: 0415 870 336
                  http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                  ----------------------------------------
                  From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                  To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                  Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                  Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                  Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                  ------------------------------------------
                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                  Hi,
                  That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                  If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                  Recio
                  From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                  Hello:
                  Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                  And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                  containing melanin:
                  locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                  par-blue birds) or
                  of white (in blue birds).
                  Wessel van der Veen.


                • Mick Blake [Exotic Parrots & Karmic Aviar
                  Hi Guys Here photo of Amaroo s Emerald Harlequin pied not a good pic I post a better one soon. Mick ... From: Chris Whipps To:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
                    Hi Guys
                     
                    Here photo of Amaroo's Emerald Harlequin pied not a good pic I post a better one soon.
                     
                    Mick
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:19 PM
                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                     

                    I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied]  in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale

                    Regards, Chris
                    Ph: 0415 870 336

                    http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au



                    From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                    To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians


                     

                    Yes ... but there is not any pic.
                     
                    Recio

                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                    Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                     
                    Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink

                    ------------------------------------------
                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                    Hi,
                     
                    That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ...  but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                    If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                     
                    Recio
                    From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                     
                    Hello:
                    Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                    And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                    containing melanin:
                    locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                    par-blue birds) or
                    of white (in blue birds).
                    Wessel van der Veen.



                  • Recio Joaquin
                    Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,   Looking at Mick s birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jul 4, 2011
                      Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                       
                      Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                       
                      When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                       
                       
                      Regards
                       
                      Recio
                       
                      From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                      Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                       
                      See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.



                      Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                      An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                      Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                       
                      Hi Willy,
                       
                      The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                       
                      Recio

                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                      Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                       
                      Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.

                      ------------------------------------------
                      From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                      I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                      Regards, Chris
                      Ph: 0415 870 336
                      http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                      ----------------------------------------
                      From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                      Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                      Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                      Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                      ------------------------------------------
                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                      Hi,
                      That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                      If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                      Recio
                      From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                      Hello:
                      Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                      And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                      containing melanin:
                      locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                      par-blue birds) or
                      of white (in blue birds).
                      Wessel van der Veen.




                    • wstobart@bigpond.com
                      Recio, Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue Willy ... From: Recio Joaquin
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                        Recio,

                        Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue

                        Willy

                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                         
                        Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                         
                        When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                         
                        Regards
                        Recio
                         
                        From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                        Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                        Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                        Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                        Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        Hi Willy,
                        The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                        Recio
                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                        Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                        Regards, Chris
                        Ph: 0415 870 336
                        http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                        ----------------------------------------
                        From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                        Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Hi,
                        That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                        If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                        Recio
                        From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Hello:
                        Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                        And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                        containing melanin:
                        locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                        par-blue birds) or
                        of white (in blue birds).
                        Wessel van der Veen.



                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                         
                        Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                         
                        When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                         
                        Regards
                        Recio
                         
                        From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                        Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                        Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                        Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                        Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        Hi Willy,
                        The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                        Recio
                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                        Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                         
                        Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                        Regards, Chris
                        Ph: 0415 870 336
                        http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                        ----------------------------------------
                        From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                        Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                        ------------------------------------------
                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Hi,
                        That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                        If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                        Recio
                        From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                        Hello:
                        Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                        And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                        containing melanin:
                        locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                        par-blue birds) or
                        of white (in blue birds).
                        Wessel van der Veen.
                      • Recio Joaquin
                        Hi Willy;   You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                          Hi Willy;
                           
                          You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                          If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                          What do you think?
                           
                           
                          Recio
                           
                           
                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                          Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                           
                          Recio,

                          Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue

                          Willy

                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                           
                          Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                           
                          When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                           
                          Regards
                          Recio
                           
                          From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                          Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                          Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                          Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                          Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          Hi Willy,
                          The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                          Recio
                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                          Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                          Regards, Chris
                          Ph: 0415 870 336
                          http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                          ----------------------------------------
                          From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                          To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                          Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Hi,
                          That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                          If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                          Recio
                          From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Hello:
                          Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                          And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                          containing melanin:
                          locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                          par-blue birds) or
                          of white (in blue birds).
                          Wessel van der Veen.

                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                           
                          Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                           
                          When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                           
                          Regards
                          Recio
                           
                          From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                          Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                          Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                          Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                          Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          Hi Willy,
                          The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                          Recio
                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                          Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                           
                          Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                          Regards, Chris
                          Ph: 0415 870 336
                          http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                          ----------------------------------------
                          From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                          To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                          Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                          ------------------------------------------
                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Hi,
                          That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                          If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                          Recio
                          From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                          Hello:
                          Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                          And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                          containing melanin:
                          locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                          par-blue birds) or
                          of white (in blue birds).
                          Wessel van der Veen.


                        • Allan Macdonald
                          Recio said, You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin , This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                            Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can someone enlighten me?
                             
                            Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>



                            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                            Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                             

                            Hi Willy;
                             
                            You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                            If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                            What do you think?
                             
                             
                            Recio
                             
                             
                            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                            Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                             
                            Recio,

                            Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue

                            Willy

                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                             
                            Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                             
                            When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                             
                            Regards
                            Recio
                             
                            From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                            Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                            Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                            Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            Hi Willy,
                            The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                            Recio
                            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                            Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                            Regards, Chris
                            Ph: 0415 870 336
                            http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                            ----------------------------------------
                            From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                            Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                            To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                            Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Hi,
                            That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                            If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                            Recio
                            From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Hello:
                            Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                            And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                            containing melanin:
                            locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                            par-blue birds) or
                            of white (in blue birds).
                            Wessel van der Veen.

                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                             
                            Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                             
                            When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                             
                            Regards
                            Recio
                             
                            From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                            Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                            Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                            Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            Hi Willy,
                            The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                            Recio
                            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                            Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                             
                            Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                            Regards, Chris
                            Ph: 0415 870 336
                            http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                            ----------------------------------------
                            From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                            Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                            To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                            From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                            Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                            ------------------------------------------
                            From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Hi,
                            That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                            If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                            Recio
                            From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                            To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                            Hello:
                            Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                            And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                            containing melanin:
                            locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                            par-blue birds) or
                            of white (in blue birds).
                            Wessel van der Veen.


                          • Mallee1
                            Hi All, Allan, I was under the same impression as well, they being a blue mutation. Glenn
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                              Hi All,

                              Allan,
                              I was under the same impression as well, they being a blue mutation.

                              Glenn


                              --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any
                              > psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and
                              > not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can
                              > someone enlighten me?
                              >
                              > Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                              > Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Willy;
                              >
                              > You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For
                              > emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied
                              > markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than
                              > the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change
                              > in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would
                              > appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                              > If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far
                              > more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:
                              > http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                              > What do you think?
                              >
                              >
                              > Recio
                              >
                              >
                              > From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                              > Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Recio,
                              >
                              > Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have
                              > pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                              >
                              > Willy
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                              >
                              > Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                              > in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                              > dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                              > emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                              > it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                              > production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                              > anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                              > acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                              > mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                              > described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                              > melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                              > the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                              > ...
                              >
                              > When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                              > the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                              >
                              > Regards
                              > Recio
                              >
                              > From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                              > Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                              > Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                              > Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > Hi Willy,
                              > The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                              > homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                              > some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                              > Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                              > (rec or dom)?
                              > Recio
                              > From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                              > Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                              > EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                              > would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                              > markings.
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                              > memory i think he also has one 4sale
                              > Regards, Chris
                              > Ph: 0415 870 336
                              > http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                              > ----------------------------------------
                              > From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                              > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                              > To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                              > From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                              > Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Hi,
                              > That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                              > ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                              > (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                              > mutations. Why???
                              > If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                              > it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                              > was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                              > Recio
                              > From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Hello:
                              > Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                              > And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                              > containing melanin:
                              > locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                              > par-blue birds) or
                              > of white (in blue birds).
                              > Wessel van der Veen.
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                              >
                              > Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                              > in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                              > dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                              > emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                              > it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                              > production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                              > anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                              > acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                              > mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                              > described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                              > melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                              > the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                              > ...
                              >
                              > When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                              > the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                              >
                              > Regards
                              > Recio
                              >
                              > From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                              > Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                              > Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                              > Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > Hi Willy,
                              > The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                              > homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                              > some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                              > Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                              > (rec or dom)?
                              > Recio
                              > From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                              > Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              >
                              > Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                              > EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                              > would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                              > markings.
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                              > memory i think he also has one 4sale
                              > Regards, Chris
                              > Ph: 0415 870 336
                              > http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                              > ----------------------------------------
                              > From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                              > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                              > To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                              > From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                              > Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                              > ------------------------------------------
                              > From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                              > Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Hi,
                              > That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                              > ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                              > (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                              > mutations. Why???
                              > If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                              > it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                              > was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                              > Recio
                              > From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                              > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                              > Hello:
                              > Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                              > And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                              > containing melanin:
                              > locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                              > par-blue birds) or
                              > of white (in blue birds).
                              > Wessel van der Veen.
                              >
                            • Terry Martin
                              Allan Recio had that point wrong. Aqua is a 50% reduction in psittacin, therefore clear areas will be a creamy yellow like the belly of a Parblue
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                
                                Allan
                                 
                                        Recio had that point wrong. Aqua is a 50% reduction in psittacin, therefore clear areas will be a creamy yellow like the belly of a Parblue Scarlet-chested parrot.
                                 
                                        Terry
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:10 AM
                                Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can someone enlighten me?
                                 
                                Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>



                                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                                Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                 

                                Hi Willy;
                                 
                                You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                What do you think?
                                 
                                 
                                Recio
                                 
                                 
                                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                 
                                Recio,

                                Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue

                                Willy

                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                 
                                Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                 
                                When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                 
                                Regards
                                Recio
                                 
                                From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                Hi Willy,
                                The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                Recio
                                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                Regards, Chris
                                Ph: 0415 870 336
                                http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                ----------------------------------------
                                From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Hi,
                                That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                Recio
                                From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Hello:
                                Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                containing melanin:
                                locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                par-blue birds) or
                                of white (in blue birds).
                                Wessel van der Veen.

                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                 
                                Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                 
                                When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                 
                                Regards
                                Recio
                                 
                                From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                Hi Willy,
                                The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                Recio
                                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                 
                                Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                Regards, Chris
                                Ph: 0415 870 336
                                http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                ----------------------------------------
                                From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                ------------------------------------------
                                From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Hi,
                                That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                Recio
                                From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                Hello:
                                Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                containing melanin:
                                locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                par-blue birds) or
                                of white (in blue birds).
                                Wessel van der Veen.


                              • wstobart@bigpond.com
                                Additional melanin from the Grey factor makes a richer yellow except in Ino. ... From: Recio Joaquin To:
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                  Additional melanin from the Grey factor makes a richer yellow except in Ino.

                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Hi Willy;
                                   
                                  You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                  If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                  What do you think?
                                   
                                   
                                  Recio
                                   
                                   
                                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                  Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  Recio,
                                  Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                                  Willy
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                   
                                  Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                   
                                  When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                   
                                  Regards
                                  Recio
                                   
                                  From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                  Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                  Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                  Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  Hi Willy,
                                  The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                  Recio
                                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                  Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                  Regards, Chris
                                  Ph: 0415 870 336
                                  http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                  ----------------------------------------
                                  From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                  To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                  Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Hi,
                                  That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                  If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                  Recio
                                  From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Hello:
                                  Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                  And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                  containing melanin:
                                  locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                  par-blue birds) or
                                  of white (in blue birds).
                                  Wessel van der Veen.
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                   
                                  Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                   
                                  When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                   
                                  Regards
                                  Recio
                                   
                                  From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                  Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                  Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                  Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  Hi Willy,
                                  The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                  Recio
                                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                  Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                   
                                  Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                  Regards, Chris
                                  Ph: 0415 870 336
                                  http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                  ----------------------------------------
                                  From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                  To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                  From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                  Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                  ------------------------------------------
                                  From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Hi,
                                  That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                  If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                  Recio
                                  From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                  To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                  Hello:
                                  Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                  And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                  containing melanin:
                                  locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                  par-blue birds) or
                                  of white (in blue birds).
                                  Wessel van der Veen.
                                • wstobart@bigpond.com
                                  Recio, Aqua is Emerald in IRN s ... From: Allan Macdonald To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re:
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                    Recio, Aqua is Emerald in IRN's

                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any
                                    psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and
                                    not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can
                                    someone enlighten me?
                                    Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                                    Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hi Willy;
                                    You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For
                                    emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied
                                    markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than
                                    the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change
                                    in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would
                                    appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                    If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far
                                    more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:
                                    http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                    What do you think?
                                    Recio
                                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                    Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Recio,
                                    Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have
                                    pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                                    Willy
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                    Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                    in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                    dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                    emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                    it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                    production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                    anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                    acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                    mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                    described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                    melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                    the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                    ...
                                    When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                    the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                    Regards
                                    Recio
                                    From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                    Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                    Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                    Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hi Willy,
                                    The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                    homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                    some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                    Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                    (rec or dom)?
                                    Recio
                                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                    Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                    EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                    would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                    markings.
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                    memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                    Regards, Chris
                                    Ph: 0415 870 336
                                    http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                    ----------------------------------------
                                    From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                    To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                    Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hi,
                                    That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                    ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                    (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                    mutations. Why???
                                    If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                    it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                    was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                    Recio
                                    From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hello:
                                    Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                    And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                    containing melanin:
                                    locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                    par-blue birds) or
                                    of white (in blue birds).
                                    Wessel van der Veen.
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                    Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                    in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                    dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                    emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                    it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                    production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                    anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                    acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                    mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                    described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                    melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                    the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                    ...
                                    When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                    the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                    Regards
                                    Recio
                                    From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                    Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                    Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                    Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hi Willy,
                                    The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                    homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                    some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                    Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                    (rec or dom)?
                                    Recio
                                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                    Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                    EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                    would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                    markings.
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                    memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                    Regards, Chris
                                    Ph: 0415 870 336
                                    http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                    ----------------------------------------
                                    From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                    To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                    From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                    Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                    ------------------------------------------
                                    From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hi,
                                    That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                    ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                    (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                    mutations. Why???
                                    If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                    it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                    was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                    Recio
                                    From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                    To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                    Hello:
                                    Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                    And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                    containing melanin:
                                    locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                    par-blue birds) or
                                    of white (in blue birds).
                                    Wessel van der Veen.
                                  • Recio Joaquin
                                    Sorry Allan, Willy, ...   Aqua as emerald are both parblue mutations and they both retain psittacin, which becomes evident when combined with ino (aqua-ino
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                      Sorry Allan, Willy, ...
                                       
                                      Aqua as emerald are both parblue mutations and they both retain psittacin, which becomes evident when combined with ino (aqua-ino and emerald-ino). I am still "contaminated" by the idea of blue phenotype as composed by 2 different "melanin layers".
                                       
                                      Recio

                                      From: Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 2:10 AM
                                      Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                       
                                      Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can someone enlighten me?
                                       
                                      Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>


                                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                                      Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                       
                                      Hi Willy;
                                       
                                      You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                      If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                      What do you think?
                                       
                                       
                                      Recio
                                       
                                       
                                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                      Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                       
                                      Recio,

                                      Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue

                                      Willy

                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                       
                                      Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                       
                                      When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                       
                                      Regards
                                      Recio
                                       
                                      From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                      Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                      Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                      Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      Hi Willy,
                                      The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                      Recio
                                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                      Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                      Regards, Chris
                                      Ph: 0415 870 336
                                      http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                      ----------------------------------------
                                      From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                      Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Hi,
                                      That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                      If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                      Recio
                                      From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Hello:
                                      Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                      And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                      containing melanin:
                                      locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                      par-blue birds) or
                                      of white (in blue birds).
                                      Wessel van der Veen.

                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                       
                                      Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                       
                                      When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                       
                                      Regards
                                      Recio
                                       
                                      From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                      Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                      Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                      Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      Hi Willy,
                                      The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                      Recio
                                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                      Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                       
                                      Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                      Regards, Chris
                                      Ph: 0415 870 336
                                      http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                      ----------------------------------------
                                      From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                      To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                      From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                      Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                      ------------------------------------------
                                      From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Hi,
                                      That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                      If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                      Recio
                                      From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                      To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                      Hello:
                                      Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                      And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                      containing melanin:
                                      locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                      par-blue birds) or
                                      of white (in blue birds).
                                      Wessel van der Veen.




                                    • Recio Joaquin
                                      Hi Willy,   It would be great to have the definitions of % of psittacin present in par blue mutations in IRN (aqua, emerald, saphire ...) but it seems that it
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                        Hi Willy,
                                         
                                        It would be great to have the definitions of % of psittacin present in par blue mutations in IRN (aqua, emerald, saphire ...) but it seems that it has not yet been defined.
                                         
                                        Recio

                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 4:51 AM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                         
                                        Recio, Aqua is Emerald in IRN's

                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any
                                        psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and
                                        not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can
                                        someone enlighten me?
                                        Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                                        Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hi Willy;
                                        You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For
                                        emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied
                                        markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than
                                        the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change
                                        in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would
                                        appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                        If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far
                                        more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:
                                        http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                        What do you think?
                                        Recio
                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Recio,
                                        Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have
                                        pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                                        Willy
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                        Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                        in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                        dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                        emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                        it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                        production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                        anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                        acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                        mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                        described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                        melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                        the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                        ...
                                        When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                        the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                        Regards
                                        Recio
                                        From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                        Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                        Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                        Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hi Willy,
                                        The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                        homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                        some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                        Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                        (rec or dom)?
                                        Recio
                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                        EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                        would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                        markings.
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                        memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                        Regards, Chris
                                        Ph: 0415 870 336
                                        http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                        ----------------------------------------
                                        From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hi,
                                        That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                        ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                        (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                        mutations. Why???
                                        If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                        it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                        was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                        Recio
                                        From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hello:
                                        Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                        And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                        containing melanin:
                                        locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                        par-blue birds) or
                                        of white (in blue birds).
                                        Wessel van der Veen.
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                        Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                        in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                        dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                        emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                        it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                        production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                        anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                        acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                        mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                        described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                        melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                        the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                        ...
                                        When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                        the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                        Regards
                                        Recio
                                        From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                        Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                        Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                        Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hi Willy,
                                        The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                        homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                        some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                        Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                        (rec or dom)?
                                        Recio
                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                        EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                        would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                        markings.
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                        memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                        Regards, Chris
                                        Ph: 0415 870 336
                                        http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                        ----------------------------------------
                                        From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                        To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                        From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                        Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                        ------------------------------------------
                                        From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hi,
                                        That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                        ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                        (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                        mutations. Why???
                                        If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                        it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                        was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                        Recio
                                        From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                        Hello:
                                        Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                        And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                        containing melanin:
                                        locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                        par-blue birds) or
                                        of white (in blue birds).
                                        Wessel van der Veen.


                                      • Recio Joaquin
                                        Hi,   Here I do not really agree. The grey factor/mutation changes feather structure but, as far as I know, it does not increase the amount of melanin. This
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jul 5, 2011
                                          Hi,
                                           
                                          Here I do not really agree. The grey factor/mutation changes feather structure but, as far as I know, it does not increase the amount of melanin. This is similar for dark and violet mutations. An apparent darker feather does not mean an increase in melanin. At present there is not melanistic mutations described in IRN.
                                          I think that grey mutation makes the psittacin appear more apparent (more yellow) because the melanin can not visually be perceived as blue, and then, wee see "less green and more yellow".
                                           
                                          Recio

                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 4:47 AM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians

                                           
                                          Additional melanin from the Grey factor makes a richer yellow except in Ino.

                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Hi Willy;
                                           
                                          You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                          If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:  http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                          What do you think?
                                           
                                           
                                          Recio
                                           
                                           
                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          Recio,
                                          Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                                          Willy
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                           
                                          Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                           
                                          When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                           
                                          Regards
                                          Recio
                                           
                                          From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                          Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                          Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                          Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          Hi Willy,
                                          The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                          Recio
                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                          Regards, Chris
                                          Ph: 0415 870 336
                                          http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                          ----------------------------------------
                                          From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                          To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Hi,
                                          That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                          If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                          Recio
                                          From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Hello:
                                          Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                          And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                          containing melanin:
                                          locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                          par-blue birds) or
                                          of white (in blue birds).
                                          Wessel van der Veen.
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                           
                                          Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please ...
                                           
                                          When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                           
                                          Regards
                                          Recio
                                           
                                          From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                          Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                          Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                          Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          Hi Willy,
                                          The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse". Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied (rec or dom)?
                                          Recio
                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                           
                                          Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied markings.
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                          Regards, Chris
                                          Ph: 0415 870 336
                                          http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                          ----------------------------------------
                                          From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                          To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                          From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                          Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Hi,
                                          That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin, ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied mutations. Why???
                                          If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ... it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                          Recio
                                          From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                          Hello:
                                          Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                          And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                          containing melanin:
                                          locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                          par-blue birds) or
                                          of white (in blue birds).
                                          Wessel van der Veen.


                                        • Wessel Louw van der Veen
                                          Hello Recio: Please consult the agreed list of colourmorphs of 11 Augsut 2000 on this forum: Quote: 17. Psittacin reduction is known in various species.
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jul 6, 2011
                                            Hello Recio:

                                            Please consult the agreed list of colourmorphs of 11 Augsut 2000 on this
                                            forum:

                                            Quote:
                                            17. Psittacin reduction is known in various species.
                                            Parblue is used as a group term for all mutations showing reduction in
                                            psittacin pigments.
                                            They are all genetically multiple alleles of the blue locus. Different
                                            names are used in each species and also in different systems in
                                            different countries.
                                            No agreement was reached regarding a suitable name for the various forms.
                                            Until agreement is reached, the following names and definitions should
                                            be used.
                                            See notes at start of document regarding use of brackets, parenthesis, etc.

                                            [aqua] indicates an even 50% reduction of psittacin throughout the plumage.

                                            [turquoise] should be used for parblue colour morphs showing differential psittacin reduction. i.e. variable reduction of psittacin in different regions of the body.

                                            Unquote


                                            Wessel van der Veen.
                                          • wstobart@bigpond.com
                                            The % varies in the heterozygous birds. The key definer is the unique phenotypes of the homozygous birds. Many claim they have Sapphires now because a guru
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jul 6, 2011
                                              The % varies in the heterozygous birds. The key definer is the unique phenotypes of the homozygous birds. Many claim they have 'Sapphires' now because a guru gave it a 10% psitticine level yet nobody can claim to have bred the homozygous 'Sapphire' let alone have seen one. This % may just be within the range of the IndigoBlue. I was promised a pair of 'SapphireBlues' to prove or disprove but ....................................


                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi Willy,
                                               
                                              It would be great to have the definitions of % of psittacin present in par blue mutations in IRN (aqua, emerald, saphire ...) but it seems that it has not yet been defined.
                                               
                                              Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 4:51 AM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                               
                                              Recio, Aqua is Emerald in IRN's
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Recio said, "You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any
                                              psittacin", This is new to me are you saying aqua is another blue mutation and
                                              not parblue as everything I have read or been told has led me to believe. Can
                                              someone enlighten me?
                                              Allan Macdonald <asplandbird@...>
                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wed, 6 July, 2011 6:22:32 AM
                                              Subject: Re: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi Willy;
                                              You are right. I was thinking about aqua which does not show any psittacin. For
                                              emerald there is still enough psittacin let to be seen as light yellow in pied
                                              markings. I do not understand why the emerald-grey dom pied is more yellow than
                                              the emerald dom pied. Could it be that he carries less melanin due to the change
                                              in feather structure due to the grey mutation? It it was the case the bird would
                                              appear more yellow even without any increase in psittacin.
                                              If you look at dilute birds you will remark that the grey-green dilute is far
                                              more yellow than the normal green dilute (see here:
                                              http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/PsittaculaWorld.htm )
                                              What do you think?
                                              Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com; Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:32 PM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Recio,
                                              Grey Emerald Pied would have yellow psitticin as Emerald is Parblue so will have
                                              pale yellow not white as in a full Blue
                                              Willy
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                              Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                              in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                              dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                              emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                              it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                              production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                              anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                              acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                              mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                              described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                              melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                              the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                              ...
                                              When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                              the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                              Regards
                                              Recio
                                              From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                              Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                              Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                              Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi Willy,
                                              The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                              homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                              some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                              Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                              (rec or dom)?
                                              Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                              EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                              would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                              markings.
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                              memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                              Regards, Chris
                                              Ph: 0415 870 336
                                              http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                              ----------------------------------------
                                              From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                              Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                              To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi,
                                              That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                              ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                              (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                              mutations. Why???
                                              If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                              it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                              was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                              Recio
                                              From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hello:
                                              Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                              And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                              containing melanin:
                                              locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                              par-blue birds) or
                                              of white (in blue birds).
                                              Wessel van der Veen.
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Thank you Stefan for the pics and congratulations, Mick, for your birds,
                                              Looking at Mick's birds (emerald pied versus grey-emerald pied) I can see yellow
                                              in the wings of the emerald dom pied, and on the whole bird in the grey-emerald
                                              dom pied. I do not understand why there is yellow in a psittacin free bird as an
                                              emerald is suppossed to be. Is it due to the presence of dom pied mutation? If
                                              it was the case we should think that melanocytes are normally "repressing" the
                                              production of psittacins, which become more apparent when they are not there
                                              anymore (dom pied birds) and this through a mechanism different of the mechanism
                                              acting to suppres psittacin in the blue mutation... but ... why the grey
                                              mutation increases far more psittacin expression?. Do you know if it has been
                                              described in other species? I do not remember if dom pied birds lack follicular
                                              melanocytes (not migration from the neural crest) or if the local conditions at
                                              the feather follicule do not allow melanocytes to properly work. Terry please
                                              ...
                                              When looking at turquoise-dom pied IRN ... I can not make the difference with
                                              the saddle-backs. I need to be highlighted on this subject.
                                              Regards
                                              Recio
                                              From: Stefan Adam <mada_s@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 7:44 AM
                                              Subject: AW: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              See attachments. the pics were posted here by mick and some others.
                                              Von: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              An: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Gesendet: Sonntag, den 3. Juli 2011, 20:20:16 Uhr
                                              Betreff: Re: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi Willy,
                                              The bird in the pic is a grey-emerald dom pied. I would have expected an overall
                                              homogeneous pale grey with darker grey head and white pied markings, but I see
                                              some yellow colours I can not explain and the pied marks seem quite "difusse".
                                              Has anybody a pic of emerald combined with recessive pied? and a turquoise-pied
                                              (rec or dom)?
                                              Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:53 PM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Any ideas why the bird is overall a different shade of green than an
                                              EmeraldBlue? Also why the clear areas found in dominant pieds are not there? I
                                              would have expected a normal coloured EmeraldBlue with pale yellow pied
                                              markings.
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Chris Whipps <chris@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              I beleive Gary Baldwin breed the first emerold harliquin [dom pied] in oz ,of
                                              memory i think he also has one 4sale
                                              Regards, Chris
                                              Ph: 0415 870 336
                                              http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au
                                              ----------------------------------------
                                              From: "Recio Joaquin" <jrecio99@...>
                                              Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:56 AM
                                              To: "Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com" <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: Re: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Yes ... but there is not any pic. Recio
                                              From: "wstobart@..." <wstobart@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:21 AM
                                              Subject: RE:Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Amaroo Aviaries have an EmeraldBlue Pied for sale on Petlink
                                              ------------------------------------------
                                              From: Recio Joaquin <jrecio99@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com;
                                              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hi,
                                              That is just the theory .... supossing that there is just one type of eumelanin,
                                              ... but I have never seen those birds, even in the web of mcw
                                              (http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/) who owns both emerald and dominant pied
                                              mutations. Why???
                                              If anyone owns pied (dominant and/or recessive) combined with emerald in IRN ...
                                              it would be great sharing the pics !!! If anyone has tried to get them but he
                                              was unsuccesfull ... it would be great to analyze the reasons.
                                              Recio
                                              From: Wessel Louw van der Veen <wvdveen@...>
                                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:02 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Pied Indians
                                              Hello:
                                              Emerald does nor work in pied but pied works in emerald.
                                              And tehre it works exactly the same as in whatever colour still
                                              containing melanin:
                                              locally there will be spots of yellow orf pale yellow (in green or
                                              par-blue birds) or
                                              of white (in blue birds).
                                              Wessel van der Veen.
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.