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Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

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  • Stephane Tintin
    Hey Every Birdie, with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
      Hey Every Birdie,
      with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. 
       
      Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.
       
      However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full coloured cheek patches.
       
      This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears slightly paler still ???
       
      Anyone have any comments ???
       


      Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
    • Pat
      Could it be an opaline clearwing skyblue? From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Tintin
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008

        Could it be an opaline clearwing skyblue?

         

        From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Tintin
        Sent: 05 January 2008 17:03
        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

         

        Hey Every Birdie,

        with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. 

         

        Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.

         

        However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full coloured cheek patches.

         

        This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears slightly paler still ???

         

        Anyone have any comments ???

         

         


        Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!

         

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      • Stephane Tintin
        Could it be an opaline clearwing skyblue? Hey Pat & Every Birdie, nope because the Opaline gene would be revealed by presence of body/ground colour (here
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
          " Could it be an opaline clearwing skyblue? "
           
          Hey Pat & Every Birdie,
          nope because the Opaline gene would be revealed by presence of body/ground colour (here Skyblue) on a Bird's mantle (back & wing coverts)
           
          Best regards,
          Stéphane
          (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
          Ruby Eyes Aviary.

          "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
          - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
           


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        • trezza green
          tintin, i am guessing big time here , i dont know what colour eyes it had? but could it a clearwing PIED of some sort, lorenzo ...
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
            tintin, i am guessing big time here , i dont know what colour eyes it had?
            but could it a clearwing PIED of some sort, lorenzo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >D�couvrez les photos les plus int�ressantes du jour!


            ><< BabyChicken1.jpg >>


            ><< BabyChicken2.jpg >>

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          • Gerard Budzaj
            It could be spangle clearwing skyblue. Spangle affects cheek patches. Best regards ... From: Stephane Tintin To:
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
              It could be spangle clearwing skyblue. Spangle affects cheek patches. Best regards

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...>
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:03:11 PM
              Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

              Hey Every Birdie,
              with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. 
               
              Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.
               
              However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full coloured cheek patches.
               
              This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears slightly paler still ???
               
              Anyone have any comments ???
               


              Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!




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            • Stephane Tintin
              It could be spangle clearwing skyblue. Spangle affects cheek patches. Best regards Hey Gerard & Every Birdie, but Spangle also display full body/ground
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                " It could be spangle clearwing skyblue. Spangle affects cheek patches. Best regards "
                 
                Hey Gerard & Every Birdie,
                but Spangle also display full body/ground colour. So what is causing the slight body/ground colour on this one ?
                 
                I wonder wether it couldn't be a ClearwingedSuffused Hetero-Allelo-Morph specimen ???
                 
                Best regards,
                Stéphane
                (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                 


                Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars
              • Ken Yorke
                Unfortunately I can t see the pictures as I get the messages in Digest mode without the attachments. If you can email the pics privately to me (or post them in
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                  Unfortunately I can't see the pictures as I get the messages in
                  Digest mode without the attachments. If you can email the pics
                  privately to me (or post them in the Photo Section of the group) I
                  may be able to help.

                  Based solely on your descriptions from your emails there are any
                  number of possibilities including but not limited to:-
                  Clearwing
                  Cinnamon Clearwing
                  Suffused Dilute
                  Cinnamon suffused Dilute
                  Various compound variety Spangles
                  etc

                  Without seeing the pics I cannot narrow it down any more (or even add
                  some more obscure combinations to the list)


                  Ken Yorke
                  kyorke@...
                  http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/kyorke


                  --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Stephane Tintin
                  <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Every Birdie,
                  > with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2
                  pics of a Budgie.
                  >
                  > Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a
                  Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.
                  >
                  > However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non
                  diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full
                  coloured cheek patches.
                  >
                  > This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour
                  appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears
                  slightly paler still ???
                  >
                  > Anyone have any comments ???
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Stéphane (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                  > Ruby Eyes Aviary.
                  >
                  > "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                  > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                  >
                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Feral_ Naturalized_ Parrots/
                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/rareparrot s/
                  >
                  > http://fr.briefcase .yahoo.com/ tintin_montreal1 972
                  >
                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Aviculture CanadaFr/
                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Genetique_ Psittacidae
                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Grand- Alexandre/
                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perroquets _Etrangers_
                  Naturalises/
                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perruche_ ondulee
                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Psittacula /
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                  >
                • Stephane Tintin
                  tintin, i am guessing big time here , i dont know what colour eyes it had? but could it a clearwing PIED of some sort, lorenzo Hey Lorenzo & Every Birdie,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                    " tintin, i am guessing big time here , i dont know what colour eyes it had?
                    but could it a clearwing PIED of some sort, lorenzo "
                     
                    Hey Lorenzo & Every Birdie,
                    I don't see any Pied feather on this one's body/ground colour. So there is to me no Pied gene in action here...
                     
                    Best regards,
                    Stéphane
                    (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                    Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                    "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                    - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                     


                    Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars
                  • Stephane Tintin
                    Unfortunately I can t see the pictures as I get the messages in Digest mode without the attachments. If you can email the pics privately to me (or post them
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                      " Unfortunately I can't see the pictures as I get the messages in Digest mode without the attachments. If you can email the pics privately to me (or post them in the Photo Section of the group) I may be able to help. "
                       
                      Hey Ken & Every Birdie,
                      I don't see any evidence of Cinnamon on this one. It's actually displaying one of the purest clear wings I have seen ! I find this one to be stunning beautifull !!!
                       
                      I've just created a Photo album and added the 2 pics of Baby Chicken. Here's a direct-link ;
                       
                       
                      Best regards,
                      Stéphane
                      (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                      Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                      "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                      - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                       


                      À la recherche du cadeau idéal pour Noël? Offrez Flickr!
                    • Allan Macdonald
                      Hi there I would say it is probably (90% sure) a double factor spangle blue, these are supposed to be pure white as in the attached picture but there is quite
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                        Hi there I would say it is probably (90% sure) a double factor spangle blue, these are supposed to be pure white as in the attached picture but there is quite a bit of variance and it is probably rarer to get a totally clear bird ( the ideal ) than ones suffused with body colour. Regards
                         
                        Allan Mac <asplandbird@...>


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...>
                        To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, 6 January, 2008 3:03:11 AM
                        Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                        Hey Every Birdie,
                        with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. 
                         
                        Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.
                         
                        However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full coloured cheek patches.
                         
                        This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears slightly paler still ???
                         
                        Anyone have any comments ???
                         


                        Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!




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                      • Pat
                        What about a dilute spangle sky blue From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Macdonald Sent:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008

                          What about a dilute spangle sky blue

                           

                          From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Macdonald
                          Sent: 06 January 2008 14:18
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                           

                          Hi there I would say it is probably (90% sure) a double factor spangle blue, these are supposed to be pure white as in the attached picture but there is quite a bit of variance and it is probably rarer to get a totally clear bird ( the ideal ) than ones suffused with body colour. Regards

                           

                          Allan Mac <asplandbird@...>

                           

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...>
                          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, 6 January, 2008 3:03:11 AM
                          Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                          Hey Every Birdie,

                          with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2 pics of a Budgie. 

                           

                          Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.

                           

                          However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full coloured cheek patches.

                           

                          This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears slightly paler still ???

                           

                          Anyone have any comments ???

                           


                          Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!

                           

                           


                          Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.

                           

                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 06/01/2008 11:57


                          No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 06/01/2008 11:57

                        • Stephane Tintin
                          What about a dilute spangle sky blue Hey Pat & Every Birdie, I suppose that could be possible since SF Spangled Budgies often do display fuller colouring
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                            " What about a dilute spangle sky blue "
                             
                            Hey Pat & Every Birdie,
                            I suppose that could be possible since SF Spangled Budgies often do display fuller colouring in their collar region just as this one does !
                             
                            Best regards,
                            Stéphane
                            (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                            Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                            "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                            - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                             


                            Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars
                          • Gerard Budzaj
                            But dont forget that dilute body color is about 80% diluted. Stephanes photos and comments shows nerly not afected body color . Some breders says that
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                              But dont forget that dilute body color is about 80% diluted.  Stephanes photos  and comments shows  nerly not afected body color . Some breders says that clearwing body color is brigtened( like Stephanes budgie?) http://www.budgieplace.com/colors.html#anthracite (read about dilution). Best regards

                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...>
                              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 5:06:56 PM
                              Subject: RE : RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                              " What about a dilute spangle sky blue "
                               
                              Hey Pat & Every Birdie,
                              I suppose that could be possible since SF Spangled Budgies often do display fuller colouring in their collar region just as this one does !
                               
                              Best regards,
                              Stéphane
                              (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                              Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                              "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                              - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                               


                              Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars




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                            • Allan Macdonald
                              Hi there, I don t know if anybody saw my earlier reply but I breed budgies and would say looking at the pictures that it is almost definitely a double factor
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
                                Hi there, I don't know if anybody saw my earlier reply but I breed budgies and would say looking at the pictures that it is almost definitely a double factor spangle, I know they should be white but you will find a great variance in body colour with it being harder to find completely clear birds than ones retaining colour. Could be single factor with very light spangle markings but body colour seems to intensify in this case not reduce, this bird definitely is spangle not clear wing and to check for single or double would be simple case of breeding with a normal blue if double factor all babies will be spangle,  single factor  50%  will be spangle and  50% normal regards,
                                 
                                Allan Mac <asplandbird@...>


                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Gerard Budzaj <gerard_budzaj@...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2008 7:01:17 AM
                                Subject: Re: RE : RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                                But dont forget that dilute body color is about 80% diluted.  Stephanes photos  and comments shows  nerly not afected body color . Some breders says that clearwing body color is brigtened( like Stephanes budgie?) http://www.budgiepl ace.com/colors. html#anthracite (read about dilution). Best regards

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972 @...>
                                To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 5:06:56 PM
                                Subject: RE : RE: [Genetics-Psittacin e] Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                                " What about a dilute spangle sky blue "
                                 
                                Hey Pat & Every Birdie,
                                I suppose that could be possible since SF Spangled Budgies often do display fuller colouring in their collar region just as this one does !
                                 
                                Best regards,
                                Stéphane
                                (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                                "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                 


                                Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars




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                              • Ken Yorke
                                Thanks for posting the pics to the Photo section. I can now be a bit more specific in my opinions although photo quality does not allow 100% accuracy.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 7, 2008
                                  Thanks for posting the pics to the Photo section. I can now be a bit
                                  more specific in my opinions although photo quality does not allow
                                  100% accuracy.

                                  Firstly, the bird has a PURE white primary tail. In a blue body
                                  coloured bird the only varieties which cause PURE white tails are
                                  1) Spangle forms
                                  2) Pied forms
                                  3) Clearwing combined with Cinnamon (or the above forms)

                                  Other birds such as Dilute and standard Clearwing etc have blue or
                                  dull white tails unless combined with the above. (Am ignoring Ino
                                  here).

                                  Secondly, the bird has PURE white primary flights. In a blue body
                                  coloured bird the only varieties which cause PURE white primary
                                  flights are
                                  1) Poorly marked Spangle forms
                                  2) Some Pied forms
                                  3) Most Clearwing when combined with Cinnamon (or the above forms)

                                  Thirdly the bird has a WHITE cheek patch. In a blue body coloured
                                  bird the only varieties which cause WHITE cheek patches are
                                  1) Some Spangles
                                  2) Some Pieds (but this is unlikely as it is random)
                                  3) Most Cinnamon Dilutes
                                  4) Some Cinnamon Clearwings

                                  Fourthly, the bird does have faint markings in the upper wing. If we
                                  could see these markings more clearly this would give us a more
                                  definitive answer. I suspect they are poor Spangle markings. They may
                                  also have greywing or clearwing involved as well. (Note Cinnamon
                                  Clearwings have even cleaner wings than these birds in the photos,
                                  which is why they are banned from Clearwing classes at shows)

                                  Fifthly, the markings on the back of the head are pale and give the
                                  overall impression of white. This suggests either spangle or
                                  clearwing or Dilute.

                                  Sixthly, The body colour is slightly reduced. From the photos I do
                                  not regard this as a great reduction. This implies Greywing,
                                  Clearwing, Cinnamon or poor Spangle. (Note Spangles are renowned for
                                  having white in the rump as a fault which gets more noticeable with
                                  old age) The body colour is not pale enough for Dilute or Double
                                  factor spangle. And the body colour is essentially even from top to
                                  bottom, whereas the body colour of a double factor spangle is always
                                  darkest under the mask and reduces down to white at the vent. There
                                  is no white Pied patches in the body colour of the photo birds. (NB
                                  Clearwings which are heterozygous with Dilute often have a duller
                                  body colour)

                                  Seventhly, the bird has dark grey feet. If Cinnamon was involved the
                                  tendency is for the feet to be paler pinkish grey.


                                  Overall, looking at all the above you will notice that Spangle is a
                                  very common demoninator. In summary I suspect the bird is either
                                  Greywing Spangle or Clearwing Spangle.


                                  My two cents worth,
                                  Ken Yorke
                                  kyorke@...
                                  http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/kyorke




                                  --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Stephane Tintin
                                  <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > " Unfortunately I can't see the pictures as I get the messages in
                                  Digest mode without the attachments. If you can email the pics
                                  privately to me (or post them in the Photo Section of the group) I
                                  may be able to help. "
                                  >
                                  > Hey Ken & Every Birdie,
                                  > I don't see any evidence of Cinnamon on this one. It's actually
                                  displaying one of the purest clear wings I have seen ! I find this
                                  one to be stunning beautifull !!!
                                  >
                                  > I've just created a Photo album and added the 2 pics of Baby
                                  Chicken. Here's a direct-link ;
                                  >
                                  > http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Genetics-
                                  Psittacine/photos/browse/c1d7
                                  >
                                  > Best regards,
                                  > Stéphane (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                  > Ruby Eyes Aviary.
                                  >
                                  > "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                  > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                  >
                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Feral_ Naturalized_ Parrots/
                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/rareparrot s/
                                  >
                                  > http://fr.briefcase .yahoo.com/ tintin_montreal1 972
                                  >
                                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Aviculture CanadaFr/
                                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Genetique_ Psittacidae
                                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Grand- Alexandre/
                                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perroquets _Etrangers_
                                  Naturalises/
                                  > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perruche_ ondulee
                                  > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Psittacula /
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > À la recherche du cadeau idéal pour Noël? Offrez Flickr!
                                  >
                                • Stephane Tintin
                                  Hey Allan, Ken & Every Birdie, I would agree with you both ; this Budgie definatly has Spangled mutation s features. Most particularly, presence of deeper
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 7, 2008
                                    Hey Allan, Ken & Every Birdie,
                                    I would agree with you both ; this Budgie definatly has Spangled mutation's features. Most particularly, presence of deeper colour on the collar area.
                                     
                                    Did any of you noticed how violet tinged the collar is showing ? I wonder wether that wouldn't reveal a SF Violet Skyblue and thus in turn may cause the pronounced body/ground colour ???
                                     
                                    I have had many SF & a few DF Spangleds over the years and actually have 1 DF Spangled Grey (White DF Spangled) The latter is displaying only a slight shadow of grey on her body.
                                     
                                    This one definatly is Spangled and most probably also Clearwinged. I'm not sure wether, this Budgie is either pet or future breeder. However, if a future breeder ; it is obvious that it would be best paired up to a NON-Spangled partner so as to reveal it's genotype.
                                     
                                    Best regards,
                                    Stéphane
                                    (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                    Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                                    "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                    - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                     


                                    Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                                  • Andre van der Voorn
                                    Hello Stephane, Can t it be a DF cleartail? With regards, Andre van der Voorn ... pics of a Budgie. ... Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged. ... diluted) body
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 7, 2008
                                      Hello Stephane,

                                      Can't it be a DF cleartail?

                                      With regards,

                                      Andre van der Voorn


                                      --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Stephane Tintin
                                      <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hey Every Birdie,
                                      > with permission of the owner ; here are in attachements are 2
                                      pics of a Budgie.
                                      >
                                      > Upon first look ; one maybe inclined to classify itself as a
                                      Clearwinged Skyblue aka Whitewinged.
                                      >
                                      > However ; genuine Clearwinged Budgies must display full (non
                                      diluted) body colour (which includes the rump region) as well as full
                                      coloured cheek patches.
                                      >
                                      > This one is showing absolutely no cheek patches, it's body colour
                                      appears slightly paler than usual Skyblue & it's rump appears
                                      slightly paler still ???
                                      >
                                      > Anyone have any comments ???
                                      >
                                      > Best regards,
                                      > Stéphane (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                      > Ruby Eyes Aviary.
                                      >
                                      > "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                      > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                      >
                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Feral_ Naturalized_ Parrots/
                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/rareparrot s/
                                      >
                                      > http://fr.briefcase .yahoo.com/ tintin_montreal1 972
                                      >
                                      > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Aviculture CanadaFr/
                                      > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Genetique_ Psittacidae
                                      > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Grand- Alexandre/
                                      > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perroquets _Etrangers_
                                      Naturalises/
                                      > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perruche_ ondulee
                                      > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Psittacula /
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                                      >
                                    • Stephane Tintin
                                      Hello Stephane, Can t it be a DF cleartail? With regards, Andre van der Voorn Hey Andre & Every Birdie, I am unaware of any Cleartailed mutation amoung
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 7, 2008
                                        " Hello Stephane,

                                        Can't it be a DF cleartail?

                                        With regards,

                                        Andre van der Voorn "
                                         
                                        Hey Andre & Every Birdie,
                                        I am unaware of any Cleartailed mutation amoung Budgerigar Parakeets ???
                                         
                                        I thought this mutation had so far, only occured amoung the indian-ringnecked (aka IRN) Parakeets ???
                                         
                                        Best regards,
                                        Stéphane
                                        (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                        Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                                        "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                        - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                         


                                        Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                                      • Andre van der Voorn
                                        Hi Stephane, Cleartail is very similar to Spangle.In SF there is only a slightly difference in markings on the wings,and tail colour I think. There are a few
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 7, 2008
                                          Hi Stephane,

                                          Cleartail is very similar to Spangle.In SF there is only a slightly
                                          difference in markings on the wings,and tail colour I think.

                                          There are a few here in Holland,coming weekend we have our National
                                          show,will ask some breeders for more info.

                                          Have a pic found on the net but don't know where.So can't send it in
                                          public.

                                          With regards,

                                          Andre van der Voorn

                                          --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Stephane Tintin
                                          <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > " Hello Stephane,
                                          >
                                          > Can't it be a DF cleartail?
                                          >
                                          > With regards,
                                          >
                                          > Andre van der Voorn "
                                          >
                                          > Hey Andre & Every Birdie,
                                          > I am unaware of any Cleartailed mutation amoung Budgerigar
                                          Parakeets ???
                                          >
                                          > I thought this mutation had so far, only occured amoung the
                                          indian-ringnecked (aka IRN) Parakeets ???
                                          >
                                          > Best regards,
                                          > Stéphane (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                          > Ruby Eyes Aviary.
                                          >
                                          > "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                          > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                          >
                                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Feral_ Naturalized_ Parrots/
                                          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/rareparrot s/
                                          >
                                          > http://fr.briefcase .yahoo.com/ tintin_montreal1 972
                                          >
                                          > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Aviculture CanadaFr/
                                          > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Genetique_ Psittacidae
                                          > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Grand- Alexandre/
                                          > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perroquets _Etrangers_
                                          Naturalises/
                                          > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perruche_ ondulee
                                          > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Psittacula /
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ---------------------------------
                                          > Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                                          >
                                        • Ken Yorke
                                          I deliberately ignored Cleartail from my earlier thoughts (in fact I included it then deleted it before posting) because research is still ongoing with this
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 8, 2008
                                            I deliberately ignored "Cleartail" from my earlier thoughts (in fact
                                            I included it then deleted it before posting) because research is
                                            still ongoing with this "variety".

                                            The "Cleartail" (and I hate this name as some of them don't have
                                            clear tails) is a form of Spangle. In single factor form they have
                                            incredibly dark markings which are so "modified" that they almost
                                            look like Normals not spangles. They are not recognised as a variety
                                            nor new mutation at this stage and have been around in small numbers
                                            for 20 years. Depending on what country you live in they are
                                            called "Cleartail", "Danish Dominant", "Melanistic Spangle", "Dark
                                            Marked Spangles" etc. In Australia we generally cull them when they
                                            occur.

                                            Unconfirmed reports including at least one article on a European
                                            website (which was mentioned in this group about 12 months ago) says
                                            that some (or all??) of the double factor Cleartails are a super-
                                            heavy suffused double factor spangle form which at first glance
                                            resembles clearwing. If you browse back through the messages for a
                                            thread about "Danish Dominant" you will find it.

                                            Until more research is done we do not know if this is Spangle subject
                                            to modifiers or a multiple allele of Spangle or some other
                                            explanation.

                                            Ken Yorke
                                            kyorke@...
                                            http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/kyorke



                                            --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Stephane Tintin
                                            <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > " Hello Stephane,
                                            >
                                            > Can't it be a DF cleartail?
                                            >
                                            > With regards,
                                            >
                                            > Andre van der Voorn "
                                            >
                                            > Hey Andre & Every Birdie,
                                            > I am unaware of any Cleartailed mutation amoung Budgerigar
                                            Parakeets ???
                                            >
                                            > I thought this mutation had so far, only occured amoung the
                                            indian-ringnecked (aka IRN) Parakeets ???
                                            >
                                            > Best regards,
                                            > Stéphane (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                            > Ruby Eyes Aviary.
                                            >
                                            > "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                            > - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                            >
                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Feral_ Naturalized_ Parrots/
                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/rareparrot s/
                                            >
                                            > http://fr.briefcase .yahoo.com/ tintin_montreal1 972
                                            >
                                            > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Aviculture CanadaFr/
                                            > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Genetique_ Psittacidae
                                            > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Grand- Alexandre/
                                            > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perroquets _Etrangers_
                                            Naturalises/
                                            > http://cf.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Perruche_ ondulee
                                            > http://fr.groups. yahoo.com/ group/Psittacula /
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Découvrez les photos les plus intéressantes du jour!
                                            >
                                          • Stephane Tintin
                                            Hey Ken, Andre & Every Birdie, having seen Andre s pic featuring a DF [Cleartailed] Budgie ; I must say that it is indeed quite identical to BabyChicken ! I
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 9, 2008
                                              Hey Ken, Andre & Every Birdie,
                                              having seen Andre's pic featuring a DF [Cleartailed] Budgie ; I must say that it is indeed quite identical to BabyChicken !
                                               
                                              I know that the latter lives in Australia. The question is how common; rare or widespread are [Cleartailed] Budgies in OZ ???
                                               
                                              Are [Cleartailed] Budgies typically found &/or produced amoung Spangled Budgie studs ?
                                               
                                              Or are they also found &/or produced in NON-Spangled Budgie studs ?
                                               
                                              Has Terry Martin &/or MUTAVI investigated this morph yet ?
                                               
                                              Best regards,
                                              Stéphane
                                              (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                              Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                                              "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                              - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                               


                                              Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars
                                            • Allan Macdonald
                                              I think in the original message it was stated that the clear tail was not a recognised colour or mutation and sounded like they may be pour double factor
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 9, 2008
                                                I think in the original message it was stated that the clear tail was not a recognised colour or mutation and sounded like they may be pour double factor spangled specimens  and I think the fact that they are a pretty looking bird may be encouraging people to try and get them recognised as something new, I posted a reply to your original question saying I thought it was perhaps a poor double factor spangle so perhaps this is something new and as Ken stated it has not been noticed as people tend to cull these "inferior" specimens if so than I would say it could be quite common. Kind regards,
                                                 
                                                Allan Mac <asplandbird@...>


                                                ----- Original Message ----
                                                From: Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...>
                                                To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Thursday, 10 January, 2008 12:46:26 AM
                                                Subject: RE : [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: Help with a Budgie's genetic classification

                                                Hey Ken, Andre & Every Birdie,
                                                having seen Andre's pic featuring a DF [Cleartailed] Budgie ; I must say that it is indeed quite identical to BabyChicken !
                                                 
                                                I know that the latter lives in Australia. The question is how common; rare or widespread are [Cleartailed] Budgies in OZ ???
                                                 
                                                Are [Cleartailed] Budgies typically found &/or produced amoung Spangled Budgie studs ?
                                                 
                                                Or are they also found &/or produced in NON-Spangled Budgie studs ?
                                                 
                                                Has Terry Martin &/or MUTAVI investigated this morph yet ?
                                                 
                                                Best regards,
                                                Stéphane
                                                (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                                                Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                                                "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                                                - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                                                 


                                                Découvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars




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                                              • Florent Pichon
                                                Hi every body ! I have a question, but not about psittacine . I ve not find any answers in Internet .. It s about dogs .. Do you think// know half sider in
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jan 20, 2009
                                                  Hi every body !

                                                  I have a question, but not about psittacine .
                                                  I've not find any answers in Internet ..
                                                  It's about dogs ..

                                                  Do you think// know half sider in mammal ?

                                                  I think I've find a half sider dog



                                                  He is fawn in left side, and brindle in right side ...
                                                  The brindle is an allele ( like turquoise for blue in ringneck .. )

                                                  What do you thinks about it ?


                                                  Best regards,

                                                  Florent Pichon
                                                  www.psitta.com

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