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pairing for the first time

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  • tas6_1999
    Dear All, I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour : Cocks: Turquoise Blue Turquoise
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2007
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      Dear All,

      I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
      ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :

      Cocks:
      Turquoise Blue
      Turquoise Grey
      Lutino

      Hens:
      Cinnamon Greygreen
      Lutino
      Lacewing
      Turquoise Grey

      Regards,
      Tas
    • Terry Martin
      Tas You must have an aim before an ideal mating can be chosen. There is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims. What colours
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 2007
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        Tas

        You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
        is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
        What colours would you like to breed?

        Terry

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@...>
        To: <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
        Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] pairing for the first time


        > Dear All,
        >
        > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
        > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
        >
        > Cocks:
        > Turquoise Blue
        > Turquoise Grey
        > Lutino
        >
        > Hens:
        > Cinnamon Greygreen
        > Lutino
        > Lacewing
        > Turquoise Grey
        >
        > Regards,
        > Tas
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)
        Dear Dr. Terry, My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 2, 2007
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          Dear Dr. Terry,

           

          My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green, Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.

           

          What is the best that I can do with these available birds with the above in mind and who should be paired with who.

           

          Regards,

          Tas

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
          Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
          To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: *****SPAM***** [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for the first time

           

          Tas

          You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
          is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
          What colours would you like to breed?

          Terry

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
          To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
          Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
          Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

          > Dear All,
          >
          > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
          > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
          >
          > Cocks:
          > Turquoise Blue
          > Turquoise Grey
          > Lutino
          >
          > Hens:
          > Cinnamon Greygreen
          > Lutino
          > Lacewing
          > Turquoise Grey
          >
          > Regards,
          > Tas
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

        • Jaie
          Hi Tas, The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is not of a
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 2, 2007
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            Hi Tas,
             
            The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is not of a sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be hens and the rest will be cocks.
             
            For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
             
            The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the actual genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations so they cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation itself occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of mutation at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
             
            Regards,
            Jaie
             


            "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
            Dear Dr. Terry,
             
            My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green, Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
             
            What is the best that I can do with these available birds with the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
             
            Regards,
            Tas
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Genetics- Psittacine@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
            Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
            To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: *****SPAM*** ** [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for the first time
             
            Tas

            You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
            is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
            What colours would you like to breed?

            Terry

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
            To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
            Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

            > Dear All,
            >
            > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
            > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
            >
            > Cocks:
            > Turquoise Blue
            > Turquoise Grey
            > Lutino
            >
            > Hens:
            > Cinnamon Greygreen
            > Lutino
            > Lacewing
            > Turquoise Grey
            >
            > Regards,
            > Tas
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

          • Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)
            Hi Jaie, Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been together for about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I plan to pair
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 3, 2007
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              Hi Jaie,

               

              Thanks for your reply.  All the birds mentioned have been together for about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I plan to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing what would be outcome out of these pairings:

               

              Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;

              Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,

              Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen. 

               

              After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I would get one Albino male.  What is your opinion about these and what colours are likely to be produced this way.

               

              Regards

              Tasneem

               

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaie
              Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
              To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for the first time

               

              Hi Tas,

               

              The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is not of a sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be hens and the rest will be cocks.

               

              For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.

               

              The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the actual genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations so they cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation itself occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of mutation at 1/ten-millionth pairings.

               

              Regards,

              Jaie

               



              "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi) " <tasneem@madinaobero i.com> wrote:

              Dear Dr. Terry,

               

              My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green, Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.

               

              What is the best that I can do with these available birds with the above in mind and who should be paired with who.

               

              Regards,

              Tas

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Genetics- Psittacine@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
              Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
              To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: *****SPAM*** ** [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for the first time

               

              Tas

              You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
              is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
              What colours would you like to breed?

              Terry

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
              To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
              Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

              > Dear All,
              >
              > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
              > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
              >
              > Cocks:
              > Turquoise Blue
              > Turquoise Grey
              > Lutino
              >
              > Hens:
              > Cinnamon Greygreen
              > Lutino
              > Lacewing
              > Turquoise Grey
              >
              > Regards,
              > Tas
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

               

            • Stephane Tintin
              Hey Tas & Every Birdie, for sure you cannot produce Clearheaded varieties (Clearheadedfallow &/or Cleartail) starting with the specimens you own and describe
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 3, 2007
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                Hey Tas & Every Birdie,
                for sure you cannot produce 'Clearheaded' varieties (Clearheadedfallow &/or Cleartail) starting with the specimens you own and describe here because they do not carry these mutations to start with.
                 
                Being that only one of the male is expressing a SL mutation means that he is the only specimen with whom it would be possible in some pairings to sex the offsprings by their visual mutations.
                 
                I would personnaly suggest pairing up the Lutino cock with the GreyFactored Turquoise hen. Reasons being that this pairing ;
                 
                1) is guarantied to produce Ino DAUGHTERS & Split/ Ino SONS and thus enabling visual-sexing of aALL Inos (be they Albino, Creamino, Lutino...) as FEMALES.
                 
                2) would reveal wether the hen is either SF Grey or rather DF Grey by the % of GreyFactored offsprings produced. She'd be revealed as DF Grey if each & every offsprings is GreyFactored (including Inos which would show absolutely no shimering of any structural-colour which is typical of Inos) Contrary she'd be revealed as SF Grey whenever any NON GreyFactored offsprings are produced (i.e. Green SONS &/or Lutino DAUGHTERS with green shimering)
                 
                3) would reveal wether the cock is Split/ for either Blue or Turquoise by the production of parblue series offsprings.
                 
                and IF the cock is indeed Split/ for either Blue or Turquoise ;
                 
                4) would reveal wether the hen is either a genuine Turquoise mutant specimen (with 2 copies of the Turquoise allele/mutation) or rather a TurquoiseBlue Hetero-AlleloMorph (HAM) mutant specimen (with 1 copy of the Blue allele/mutation & 1 copy of the Turquoise allele/mutation) 
                 
                Where the absence of any genuine blue series'  (i.e. Albino, Blue, Grey...) offsprings would guaranty the cock as Split/ Turquoise and hen as a genuine GreyFactored Turquoise. On the contrary, the production of genuine blue series offsprings would guaranty the cock as Split/ Blue and the hen as a GreyFactored TurquoiseBlue HAM mutant specimen.
                 
                So all in-in-all this pairing should reveal a few valuable informations regarding either the cock &/or hen birds and of their offsprings along with allowing for some visual-sexing of all Ino daughters.
                 
                Then I'd definatly suggest pairing up the Cinnamon Greygreen hen with the TurquoiseBlue cock which may reveal wether the hen is herself Split/ either Blue or Turquoise which is often the case with GreyFactored specimens.
                 
                If no genuine blue series (i.e. Albino, Blue, Grey, GreyFactored Cinnamon...) offsprings are produced ; it would reveal the hen as Split/ Turquoise.
                 
                If on the contrary genuine blue series offsrpings are produce ; this would reveal the hen as Split/ Blue.
                 
                At last ; I'd suggest pairing up the GreyFactored Turquoise cock with either the Lutino or rather the Green Pallid (erraneously called LaceWings) hen. In both instances ; the pair would produce Green & Greygreen offsprings ALL daughters guarantied Split/ Turquoise and ALL SONS guarantied Split/ Turquoise & guarantied Split/ for their mother's mutation (either Ino or rather Pallid)
                 
                Best regards,
                Stéphane
                (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                 

                "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> a écrit :
                Dear Dr. Terry,
                 
                My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green, Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                 
                What is the best that I can do with these available birds with the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                 
                Regards,
                Tas
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Genetics- Psittacine@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
                Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                Subject: *****SPAM*** ** [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for the first time
                 
                Tas

                You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
                is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
                What colours would you like to breed?

                Terry

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
                To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
                Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

                > Dear All,
                >
                > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
                > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                >
                > Cocks:
                > Turquoise Blue
                > Turquoise Grey
                > Lutino
                >
                > Hens:
                > Cinnamon Greygreen
                > Lutino
                > Lacewing
                > Turquoise Grey
                >
                > Regards,
                > Tas
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                Le tout nouveau Yahoo! Courriel
                Consultez vos fils RSS depuis votre boîte de réception.

              • Stephane Tintin
                Hi Tas, ... For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 3, 2007
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                  Hi Tas,
                     
                  ...
                     
                     For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                  ...
                     
                     Regards,
                     Jaie
                   
                  Hey Jaie, Tas, Terry & Every Birdie,
                  you forgot about the fact that the GreyFactor negates the display of any structural-colour (i.e. aqua, blue, green, turquoise, violet...) which in consequence prevents the display of any shimering of those structural-colours in all GreyFactored Inos (i.e GreyFactored Albino, GreyFactored Creamino, GreyFactored Lutino...)
                   
                  So it is in fact very easy to distinguish between GreyFactored Inos from NON GreyFactored Inos by respectively the absence or rather presence of any structural-coloured shimering.
                   
                  Being that the absence of shimering is idealized & prized by the average hobbyist-breeder & show-judges with regards to Ino specimens along with being rewarded on show-benches for displaying pure solid clear (cream, white &/or yellow) colours. This pairing also makes it possible for visual-sexing of ALL Ino offsprings as guarantied FEMALES.
                   
                  So in fact ; pairing-up the Lutino cock with the GreyFactored Turquoise hen is actually extremelly interesting !!!
                   
                  Best regards,
                  Stéphane
                  (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                  Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                  "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                  - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                   


                  Changez de tête et de tenue tous les jours si vous le voulez ! Volez la vedette sur Yahoo! Québec Avatars
                • Jaie
                  Hey Stephane, Thanks for the interesting insight regarding feather shimmering. I own and breed several non-Grey-factored Indian Ringneck Inos and I notice that
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    Hey Stephane,
                     
                    Thanks for the interesting insight regarding feather shimmering. I own and breed several non-Grey-factored Indian Ringneck Inos and I notice that not all of them have the structural shimmering or feather sheening. I think this phenomenon varies from bird to bird and isn't set in stone.
                     
                    Additionally, it has been observed that not all structural color is suppressed by the Grey factor especially the Single-Factor Greys and that the Double-Factor does a better job at suppressing constructive interference. I believe Terry pointed out microscopic evidence to this effect on a previous post. So if this were true, then the Grey-factor will not always identify itself on Grey Ino specimens through elimination of structural colors.
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    Stephane Tintin <tintin_montreal1972@...> wrote:
                    So it is in fact very easy to distinguish between GreyFactored Inos from NON GreyFactored Inos by respectively the absence or rather presence of any structural-coloured shimering. Being that the absence of shimering is idealized & prized by the average hobbyist-breeder & show-judges with regards to Ino specimens along with being rewarded on show-benches for displaying pure solid clear (cream, white &/or yellow) colours.
                     
                    I'm not sure if I get you correctly on this one but the absence of structural color does not produce pure solid clear colors as you put it. In Lutinos, removal of structural color on any Greenish shimmering will leave behind GreyGreen shimmering. And in Albinos, removal of the structural Bluish shimmering will leave behind visual Grey shimmering. This is because the only thing removed by the Grey factor is the structural component. The melanin component is still intact.  


                     
                    Warm Regards,
                     
                    Jaie
                  • Terry Martin
                    Tas Jaie s comments are spot on, you cannot breed Clearhead Fallow or Cleartail colours without buying in those mutations. You do have a Pallid hen, so you
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 3, 2007
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                      Tas
                       
                              Jaie's comments are spot on, you cannot breed Clearhead Fallow or Cleartail colours without buying in those mutations. You do have a Pallid hen, so you could look to develop that mutation. In that case you have two possible courses of approach. One to mate a Lutino cock X Pallid hen, which produces PallidIno sons and Lutino daughters. The sons can then be mated through other colours to produce a range of hen Pallids.
                       
                              Or you could mate the Pallid hen to another cock to produce split sons and then work from there.
                       
                              In general terms, avoid mixing Lutino and grey factor as it hides the Grey factor as Jaie has said. Mating two Grey factor birds together will produce DF Grey factor offspring, among others. This may or may not be desirable.
                       
                              From the list of birds you have, you options for colours to produce in the first generation include
                       
                              Lutino
                              PallidIno
                              Grey
                              Blue
                              TurquoiseBlue
                              Turquoise
                              TurquoiseGrey
                              Grey factor Turquoise
                      plus DF Grey factor birds
                       
                              depending upon which matings you do.
                       
                              Terry
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jaie
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:03 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for the first time

                      Hi Tas,
                       
                      The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is not of a sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be hens and the rest will be cocks.
                       
                      For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                       
                      The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the actual genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations so they cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation itself occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of mutation at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                       
                      Regards,
                      Jaie
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
                      To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                      Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

                      > Dear All,
                      >
                      > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
                      > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                      >
                      > Cocks:
                      > Turquoise Blue
                      > Turquoise Grey
                      > Lutino
                      >
                      > Hens:
                      > Cinnamon Greygreen
                      > Lutino
                      > Lacewing
                      > Turquoise Grey
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Tas
                    • tas6_1999
                      Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry, I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named Tas . Could you
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
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                        Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry,

                        I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green
                        Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named "Tas".
                        Could you please have a look at these and see the one between Pallid
                        and Turquoise Grey Cock, in the first picture, if it is another
                        Pallid (with darker colour) or Cinnamon Greygreen. Her head is
                        ligher than that of her back. There are other photographs too from
                        different angles. I just got confused. I have bought these birds
                        from a pet-shop, that's why the feathers are not well groomed due to
                        cage congestion.

                        Regards
                        Tas



                        --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, "Syed Tasneem
                        Ahmed\(madinaoberoi\)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Jaie,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been together
                        for
                        > about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I
                        plan
                        > to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing
                        what
                        > would be outcome out of these pairings:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                        >
                        > Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                        >
                        > Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I
                        would get
                        > one Albino male. What is your opinion about these and what
                        colours are
                        > likely to be produced this way.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards
                        >
                        > Tasneem
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                        > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                        > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                        the
                        > first time
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Tas,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the
                        nest
                        > is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is
                        not of a
                        > sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be
                        hens
                        > and the rest will be cocks.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey
                        hen and
                        > all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion
                        > however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens
                        will
                        > be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which
                        > without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the
                        actual
                        > genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations
                        so they
                        > cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation
                        itself
                        > occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of
                        mutation
                        > at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Jaie
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Dr. Terry,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they
                        are in
                        > the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive
                        > colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green,
                        Fallow
                        > Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey,
                        etc.)
                        > and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > What is the best that I can do with these available birds
                        with
                        > the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Tas
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
                        Martin
                        > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                        > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: *****SPAM***** [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                        > the first time
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Tas
                        >
                        > You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen.
                        > There
                        > is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve
                        > different aims.
                        > What colours would you like to breed?
                        >
                        > Terry
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@...
                        > <mailto:tas6_1999%40yahoo.com> >
                        > To: <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:Genetics-Psittacine%40yahoogroups.com> >
                        > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                        > Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] pairing for the first time
                        >
                        > > Dear All,
                        > >
                        > > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know
                        > the
                        > > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                        > >
                        > > Cocks:
                        > > Turquoise Blue
                        > > Turquoise Grey
                        > > Lutino
                        > >
                        > > Hens:
                        > > Cinnamon Greygreen
                        > > Lutino
                        > > Lacewing
                        > > Turquoise Grey
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > > Tas
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • tas6_1999
                        Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry, I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named Tas . Could you
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry,

                          I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green
                          Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named "Tas".
                          Could you please have a look at these and see the one between Pallid
                          and Turquoise Grey Cock, in the first picture, if it is another
                          Pallid (with darker colour) or Cinnamon Greygreen. Her head is
                          ligher than that of her back. There are other photographs too from
                          different angles. I just got confused. I have bought these birds
                          from a pet-shop, that's why the feathers are not well groomed due to
                          cage congestion.

                          Regards
                          Tas



                          --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, "Syed Tasneem
                          Ahmed\(madinaoberoi\)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Jaie,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been together
                          for
                          > about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I
                          plan
                          > to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing
                          what
                          > would be outcome out of these pairings:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                          >
                          > Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                          >
                          > Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I
                          would get
                          > one Albino male. What is your opinion about these and what
                          colours are
                          > likely to be produced this way.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards
                          >
                          > Tasneem
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                          > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                          > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                          the
                          > first time
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Tas,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the
                          nest
                          > is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is
                          not of a
                          > sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be
                          hens
                          > and the rest will be cocks.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey
                          hen and
                          > all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion
                          > however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens
                          will
                          > be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which
                          > without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the
                          actual
                          > genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations
                          so they
                          > cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation
                          itself
                          > occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of
                          mutation
                          > at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Jaie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Dr. Terry,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they
                          are in
                          > the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive
                          > colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green,
                          Fallow
                          > Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey,
                          etc.)
                          > and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > What is the best that I can do with these available birds
                          with
                          > the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Tas
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
                          Martin
                          > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                          > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: *****SPAM***** [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                          > the first time
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Tas
                          >
                          > You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen.
                          > There
                          > is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve
                          > different aims.
                          > What colours would you like to breed?
                          >
                          > Terry
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@...
                          > <mailto:tas6_1999%40yahoo.com> >
                          > To: <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:Genetics-Psittacine%40yahoogroups.com> >
                          > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                          > Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] pairing for the first time
                          >
                          > > Dear All,
                          > >
                          > > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know
                          > the
                          > > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                          > >
                          > > Cocks:
                          > > Turquoise Blue
                          > > Turquoise Grey
                          > > Lutino
                          > >
                          > > Hens:
                          > > Cinnamon Greygreen
                          > > Lutino
                          > > Lacewing
                          > > Turquoise Grey
                          > >
                          > > Regards,
                          > > Tas
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Stephane Tintin
                          Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry, I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named Tas . Could
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            " Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry,

                            I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green
                            Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named "Tas".
                            Could you please have a look at these and see the one between Pallid
                            and Turquoise Grey Cock, in the first picture, if it is another
                            Pallid (with darker colour) or Cinnamon Greygreen. Her head is
                            ligher than that of her back. There are other photographs too from
                            different angles. I just got confused. I have bought these birds
                            from a pet-shop, that's why the feathers are not well groomed due to
                            cage congestion.

                            Regards
                            Tas "
                             
                            Hey again Tas & Every Birdie,
                            Cinnamon specimens display wine-red coloured eyes as hatchlings & until they are 10 to 15 days-old but near-natural coloured eyes as fledgelings &/or adults.
                             
                            Pallid specimens display wine-red eyes as fledgelings & adults,
                             
                            PallidIno cocks display ruby-red eyes as fledgelings & adults.
                             
                            Best regards,
                            Stéphane
                            (MALE's name french equivalent of Stephen ;-) aka Tintin,
                            Ruby Eyes Aviary.

                            "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
                            - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
                             


                            Découvrez ce qui fait jaser les gens ! Visitez les groupes de l'heure sur Yahoo! Québec Groupes.
                          • Jaie
                            Tas, Rather than enumerating to you the results of your probable pairings, it would be better in the long run if you learn how to use Martin Rasek s Genetic
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Tas,
                               
                              Rather than enumerating to you the results of your probable pairings, it would be better in the long run if you learn how to use Martin Rasek's Genetic Calculator.
                               
                              So go ahead and click on the link above. Since the entry buttons each correspond to a Primary mutation, you have to learn to identify the primary mutations that comprise the most common colors. We will make your pairings below as an example.
                               
                              For TurquoiseBlue Grey cock, under the 1.0 (cock) column, you select:
                              1. Turquoise
                              2. Blue (under the splits to column) 
                              3. Grey (under the SF column or DF column depending on what you have)
                               
                              Do the same for the TurquoiseBlue Grey hen under the 0.1 (hen) column.
                               
                              Select the Show Genetic Code button on the bottom. Then Generate. It's really quite simple and quick.
                               
                              ------------------
                               
                               
                              As for your other prospective parent birds...
                               
                              GreyGreen Cinnamon - select Grey (SF or DF) and Cinnamon buttons
                              Lacewing - select Pallid button if you have the more common primary mutation.
                              Lacewing - select Cinnamon and Ino buttons if you have a genuine Lacewing
                              TurquoiseBlue - select Turquoise and Blue (splits to column).
                              Lutino - select Ino under the visual column.
                               
                              More common mutation combinations:
                              Albino = Blue Ino
                              Creamino = Turquoise Blue Ino or Turquoise Ino
                              Visual Grey = Grey Blue
                               
                               
                              Hope that helps.
                              Jaie
                               


                              "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                              Hi Jaie,
                               
                              Thanks for your reply.  All the birds mentioned have been together for about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I plan to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing what would be outcome out of these pairings:
                               
                              Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                              Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                              Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen. 
                               
                              After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I would get one Albino male.  What is your opinion about these and what colours are likely to be produced this way.
                               
                              Regards
                              Tasneem
                               
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Genetics- Psittacine@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                              Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                              To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: *****SPAM*** ** RE: [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for the first time
                               
                              Hi Tas,
                               
                              The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is not of a sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be hens and the rest will be cocks.
                               
                              For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                               
                              The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the actual genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations so they cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation itself occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of mutation at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                               
                              Regards,
                              Jaie
                               


                              "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi) " <tasneem@madinaobero i.com> wrote:
                              Dear Dr. Terry,
                               
                              My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green, Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                               
                              What is the best that I can do with these available birds with the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                               
                              Regards,
                              Tas
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Genetics- Psittacine@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
                              Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                              To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: *****SPAM*** ** [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for the first time
                               
                              Tas

                              You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
                              is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different aims.
                              What colours would you like to breed?

                              Terry

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@yahoo. com>
                              To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com>
                              Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                              Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time

                              > Dear All,
                              >
                              > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
                              > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                              >
                              > Cocks:
                              > Turquoise Blue
                              > Turquoise Grey
                              > Lutino
                              >
                              > Hens:
                              > Cinnamon Greygreen
                              > Lutino
                              > Lacewing
                              > Turquoise Grey
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Tas
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                               

                            • Jaie
                              Hey Tas, Cinnamon GreyGreen IRNs tend to have Mustard-looking feathers or what other enthusiasts sometimes call Golden Olive , which is a purely descriptive
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hey Tas,
                                 
                                Cinnamon GreyGreen IRNs tend to have Mustard-looking feathers or what other enthusiasts sometimes call "Golden Olive", which is a purely descriptive moniker. 
                                 
                                Based on the quality your pictures, I don't think that is a Cinnamon GreyGreen but rather a GreyGreen Pallid.
                                 
                                Regards,
                                Jaie

                                tas6_1999 <tasneem@...> wrote:
                                Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry,

                                I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green
                                Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named "Tas".
                                Could you please have a look at these and see the one between Pallid
                                and Turquoise Grey Cock, in the first picture, if it is another
                                Pallid (with darker colour) or Cinnamon Greygreen. Her head is
                                ligher than that of her back. There are other photographs too from
                                different angles. I just got confused. I have bought these birds
                                from a pet-shop, that's why the feathers are not well groomed due to
                                cage congestion.

                                Regards
                                Tas

                                --- In Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com, "Syed Tasneem
                                Ahmed\(madinaoberoi \)" <tasneem@... > wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Jaie,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been together
                                for
                                > about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I
                                plan
                                > to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing
                                what
                                > would be outcome out of these pairings:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                                >
                                > Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                                >
                                > Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I
                                would get
                                > one Albino male. What is your opinion about these and what
                                colours are
                                > likely to be produced this way.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Regards
                                >
                                > Tasneem
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                                > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                                > To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                > Subject: *****SPAM*** ** RE: [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for
                                the
                                > first time
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Tas,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in the
                                nest
                                > is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is
                                not of a
                                > sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will be
                                hens
                                > and the rest will be cocks.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey
                                hen and
                                > all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion
                                > however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby hens
                                will
                                > be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which
                                > without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the
                                actual
                                > genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations
                                so they
                                > cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation
                                itself
                                > occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of
                                mutation
                                > at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > Jaie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi) " <tasneem@... > wrote:
                                >
                                > Dear Dr. Terry,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they
                                are in
                                > the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive
                                > colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green,
                                Fallow
                                > Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey,
                                etc.)
                                > and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > What is the best that I can do with these available birds
                                with
                                > the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > Tas
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry
                                Martin
                                > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                                > To: Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                > Subject: *****SPAM*** ** [Genetics-Psittacin e] Re: pairing for
                                > the first time
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Tas
                                >
                                > You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen.
                                > There
                                > is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve
                                > different aims.
                                > What colours would you like to breed?
                                >
                                > Terry
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@. ..
                                > <mailto:tas6_ 1999%40yahoo. com> >
                                > To: <Genetics-Psittacine @yahoogroups. com
                                > <mailto:Genetics- Psittacine% 40yahoogroups. com> >
                                > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                                > Subject: [Genetics-Psittacin e] pairing for the first time
                                >
                                > > Dear All,
                                > >
                                > > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know
                                > the
                                > > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                                > >
                                > > Cocks:
                                > > Turquoise Blue
                                > > Turquoise Grey
                                > > Lutino
                                > >
                                > > Hens:
                                > > Cinnamon Greygreen
                                > > Lutino
                                > > Lacewing
                                > > Turquoise Grey
                                > >
                                > > Regards,
                                > > Tas
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >




                                 
                                Warm Regards,
                                 
                                Jaie
                              • tas6_1999
                                Hi Jaie, That s great and simple too! Thanks a lot. It is very lucky of us to have you around. Regards, Tas ... pairings, it would be better in the long run
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Jaie,

                                  That's great and simple too! Thanks a lot. It is very lucky of us
                                  to have you around.

                                  Regards,
                                  Tas



                                  --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Jaie <leavenodoubt@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Tas,
                                  >
                                  > Rather than enumerating to you the results of your probable
                                  pairings, it would be better in the long run if you learn how to use
                                  Martin Rasek's Genetic Calculator.
                                  >
                                  > So go ahead and click on the link above. Since the entry buttons
                                  each correspond to a Primary mutation, you have to learn to identify
                                  the primary mutations that comprise the most common colors. We will
                                  make your pairings below as an example.
                                  >
                                  > For TurquoiseBlue Grey cock, under the 1.0 (cock) column, you
                                  select:
                                  > 1. Turquoise
                                  > 2. Blue (under the splits to column)
                                  > 3. Grey (under the SF column or DF column depending on what you
                                  have)
                                  >
                                  > Do the same for the TurquoiseBlue Grey hen under the 0.1 (hen)
                                  column.
                                  >
                                  > Select the Show Genetic Code button on the bottom. Then Generate.
                                  It's really quite simple and quick.
                                  >
                                  > ------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > As for your other prospective parent birds...
                                  >
                                  > GreyGreen Cinnamon - select Grey (SF or DF) and Cinnamon buttons
                                  > Lacewing - select Pallid button if you have the more common
                                  primary mutation.
                                  > Lacewing - select Cinnamon and Ino buttons if you have a genuine
                                  Lacewing
                                  > TurquoiseBlue - select Turquoise and Blue (splits to column).
                                  > Lutino - select Ino under the visual column.
                                  >
                                  > More common mutation combinations:
                                  > Albino = Blue Ino
                                  > Creamino = Turquoise Blue Ino or Turquoise Ino
                                  > Visual Grey = Grey Blue
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hope that helps.
                                  > Jaie
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                                  > Hi Jaie,
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been
                                  together for about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each
                                  other, I plan to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very
                                  much knowing what would be outcome out of these pairings:
                                  >
                                  > Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                                  > Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                                  > Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen.
                                  >
                                  > After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I
                                  would get one Albino male. What is your opinion about these and what
                                  colours are likely to be produced this way.
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  > Tasneem
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-
                                  Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                                  > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                                  > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                                  the first time
                                  >
                                  > Hi Tas,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in
                                  the nest is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that
                                  is not of a sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation
                                  babies will be hens and the rest will be cocks.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise
                                  Grey hen and all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In
                                  my opinion however, this is not a good pairing because half of your
                                  baby hens will be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which
                                  one is which without test breeding, which is both time and space
                                  consuming.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have
                                  the actual genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary
                                  mutations so they cannot be created in your aviary unless of course
                                  the mutation itself occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the
                                  probability of mutation at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  >
                                  > Jaie
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Dr. Terry,
                                  >
                                  > My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they are in
                                  the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive
                                  colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green,
                                  Fallow Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon
                                  grey, etc.) and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                                  >
                                  > What is the best that I can do with these available birds with
                                  the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Tas
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Genetics-
                                  Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Martin
                                  > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                                  > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: *****SPAM***** [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for the
                                  first time
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Tas
                                  >
                                  > You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen. There
                                  > is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve different
                                  aims.
                                  > What colours would you like to breed?
                                  >
                                  > Terry
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@...>
                                  > To: <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                                  > Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] pairing for the first time
                                  >
                                  > > Dear All,
                                  > >
                                  > > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know the
                                  > > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                                  > >
                                  > > Cocks:
                                  > > Turquoise Blue
                                  > > Turquoise Grey
                                  > > Lutino
                                  > >
                                  > > Hens:
                                  > > Cinnamon Greygreen
                                  > > Lutino
                                  > > Lacewing
                                  > > Turquoise Grey
                                  > >
                                  > > Regards,
                                  > > Tas
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • tas6_1999
                                  Hi Jaie, That s why I wanted to consult you. You know, the two lutinos and pallid are from the smae import cage as this greygreen pallid. I am quite thrilled
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 5, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Jaie,

                                    That's why I wanted to consult you. You know, the two lutinos and
                                    pallid are from the smae import cage as this greygreen pallid. I am
                                    quite thrilled that I have another pallid greygreen.

                                    Thanks a lot once again,

                                    Regards
                                    Tas



                                    --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, Jaie <leavenodoubt@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hey Tas,
                                    >
                                    > Cinnamon GreyGreen IRNs tend to have Mustard-looking feathers or
                                    what other enthusiasts sometimes call "Golden Olive", which is a
                                    purely descriptive moniker.
                                    >
                                    > Based on the quality your pictures, I don't think that is a
                                    Cinnamon GreyGreen but rather a GreyGreen Pallid.
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    > Jaie
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > tas6_1999 <tasneem@...> wrote:
                                    > Hi Jaie and Dr. Terry,
                                    >
                                    > I have just uploaded a few photographs of Cinnamon Grey Green
                                    > Ringneck hen in the photo section under the folder named "Tas".
                                    > Could you please have a look at these and see the one between
                                    Pallid
                                    > and Turquoise Grey Cock, in the first picture, if it is another
                                    > Pallid (with darker colour) or Cinnamon Greygreen. Her head is
                                    > ligher than that of her back. There are other photographs too from
                                    > different angles. I just got confused. I have bought these birds
                                    > from a pet-shop, that's why the feathers are not well groomed due
                                    to
                                    > cage congestion.
                                    >
                                    > Regards
                                    > Tas
                                    >
                                    > --- In Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com, "Syed Tasneem
                                    > Ahmed\(madinaoberoi\)" <tasneem@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Jaie,
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks for your reply. All the birds mentioned have been together
                                    > for
                                    > > about two weeks or so and keeping their interest in each other, I
                                    > plan
                                    > > to pair them as follows and I would appreciate very much knowing
                                    > what
                                    > > would be outcome out of these pairings:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Turquoise Grey Cock with Turquoise Grey Hen;
                                    > >
                                    > > Turquoise Blue Cock with Lacewing; and,
                                    > >
                                    > > Lutino Cock with Cinnamon Greygreen Hen.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > After the above, I will be left with Lutino hen and for her I
                                    > would get
                                    > > one Albino male. What is your opinion about these and what
                                    > colours are
                                    > > likely to be produced this way.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards
                                    > >
                                    > > Tasneem
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jaie
                                    > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:03 PM
                                    > > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                                    > the
                                    > > first time
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Tas,
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > The most convenient way to know the sex of ALL babies while in
                                    the
                                    > nest
                                    > > is to pair a visual sex-linked male mutation with a hen that is
                                    > not of a
                                    > > sex-linked mutation. All visual sex-linked mutation babies will
                                    be
                                    > hens
                                    > > and the rest will be cocks.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > For example, you can pair your Lutino cock to the Turquoise Grey
                                    > hen and
                                    > > all Lutinos will be hens and the rest will be cocks. In my opinion
                                    > > however, this is not a good pairing because half of your baby
                                    hens
                                    > will
                                    > > be masking Grey and there is no way of knowing which one is which
                                    > > without test breeding, which is both time and space consuming.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > The only way to produce Clearheads and Cleartails is to have the
                                    > actual
                                    > > genes among your breeding stock. They are both primary mutations
                                    > so they
                                    > > cannot be created in your aviary unless of course the mutation
                                    > itself
                                    > > occurs among your pairs. I think Darwin puts the probability of
                                    > mutation
                                    > > at 1/ten-millionth pairings.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > >
                                    > > Jaie
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > "Syed Tasneem Ahmed(madinaoberoi)" <tasneem@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear Dr. Terry,
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > My first aim is to know the sexes of the birds while they
                                    > are in
                                    > > the nestbox itself and I want to produce some very nice/attractive
                                    > > colours such as in clearhead series (fallow Grey, Fallow Green,
                                    > Fallow
                                    > > Turquoise Grey, etc.), in cleartail series (grey, cinnamon grey,
                                    > etc.)
                                    > > and cinnamon, cinnamon greygreen, etc.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > What is the best that I can do with these available birds
                                    > with
                                    > > the above in mind and who should be paired with who.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards,
                                    > >
                                    > > Tas
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
                                    > Martin
                                    > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:57 AM
                                    > > To: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: *****SPAM***** [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: pairing for
                                    > > the first time
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Tas
                                    > >
                                    > > You must have an aim before an 'ideal' mating can be chosen.
                                    > > There
                                    > > is no perfect mating, just different matings that achieve
                                    > > different aims.
                                    > > What colours would you like to breed?
                                    > >
                                    > > Terry
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "tas6_1999" <tas6_1999@
                                    > > <mailto:tas6_1999%40yahoo.com> >
                                    > > To: <Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > <mailto:Genetics-Psittacine%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                    > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:01 PM
                                    > > Subject: [Genetics-Psittacine] pairing for the first time
                                    > >
                                    > > > Dear All,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have the following Indian Ringneck birds and need to know
                                    > > the
                                    > > > ideal pairing and the resultant off-springs colour :
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Cocks:
                                    > > > Turquoise Blue
                                    > > > Turquoise Grey
                                    > > > Lutino
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hens:
                                    > > > Cinnamon Greygreen
                                    > > > Lutino
                                    > > > Lacewing
                                    > > > Turquoise Grey
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Regards,
                                    > > > Tas
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Warm Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Jaie
                                    >
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