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Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: Roseicollis -/Whiteface - Seagreen - AquaTurquoise

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  • Linda Brandt
    Hi Stephane, Thank you so much for the former references. I did not recall the correspondence in relationship to the sf orangefaced and really enjoyed reading
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
      Hi Stephane,
       
      Thank you so much for the former references.  I did not recall the correspondence in relationship to the sf orangefaced and really enjoyed reading it all again. 
       
      It does make sense that the aqua could dominate the aquaTurquoise, but that's part of what I'm trying to find out.  I appreciate your's and any other comments and opinions given on this subject.  It has been very enlightening for me.  I just can't believe it was in front of me for so many years, and I just didn't notice. 
       
      Thanks again.
       
      Linda Brandt
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: 08/31/05 23:56:07
      Subject: Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: Roseicollis -/Whiteface - Seagreen - AquaTurquoise
       
      Hey Linda & Every Birdie,
      there has been debate & discussion amoungst the Genetics-Psittacine Yahoo Group members (which you were also part of) several times regarding this phenomenon. Although it is commonly perceived as being autosomal-recessive, the Orange-Face inherits rather autosomal-Incomplete-Dominant.
       
      I did a search in the Groups' messages archives and trace back the original post from this particular thread of discussions ;
       
       
      Most of the discussion's post are featured on this search result ;
       
       
      Anyhow... Genetically speaking true splits are always totally asymptomatic mutant specimens heterozygous for recessive mutated genes. Ex. wild-type/NSLino, aqua/fallow, cinnamon/turquoise...
       
      Being that the aqua allele features a 50% EVEN psittacin reduction throughout the entire plumage while the turquoise allele features a DIFFERENTIAL (variable) psittacin reduction in different body regions.
       
      I'm guessing that the difference in colouration from aquaturquoise specimens produced from aqua X turquoise mating versus aquaturquoise X aquaturquoise matings probably reveals that the aqua's allele dominates the turquoise's allele over generations making the colouration more and more even over generations... Would that make any sense ???
       


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    • Dirk Van den Abeele
      Maybe I did misunderstood the answer from Stephane. But I believe that we have to look a little bit further than just “a bird being split for something” or
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005

        Maybe I did misunderstood the answer from Stephane. But I believe that we have to look a little bit further than just “a bird being split for something” or recessive or dominant expression of a gene.

        The development of the psittacofulvins is a very complex process witch is not jet quit clearly understood.   But we know that every mutation will change the DNA code of an individual.  DNA is based on 4 different bases. Every series of three bases is actually a code for a certain amino acid. With some calculation we can see that there are 64 possible combinations of three bases (4 x 4 x 4). In other words, we can theoretically code 64 different amino acids. If we bear in mind that a human (probably) only has 20 different amino acids, it seems that some amino acids can have several codes. These 20 amino acids are the components of our proteins. There are proteins which contain no more than 10 amino acids, whereas others have more than 100. It is thus obvious that with these 20 components or amino acids we can create an enormous amount of different proteins, which are all vital.. The part of DNA that contains the genetic code for the creation of one protein is a gene.  The aqua or turquoise mutation will change a part of the DNA code of one particular gene. We call it the bl- locus, because it will regulate the production of the psittacofulvins in the feathers.  Because there are probably genetically small differences between certain aqua’s or some genetically differences between turquoise birds, it will always be possible to create “different amino acids” and become, if we combine both alleles, different phenotypes of these birds.

        An other explanation can be modifying genes.  When several genes are involved in the development of certain characteristics (situated on different loci, even on different chromosomes), the genes can behave towards each other in a number of ways.  So maybe the presence of an other mutation can have his influence on the phenotype.

         

        Dirk Van den Abeele

         

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      • Stephane Tintin
        Hi! I recently purchased a pair of ringnecks, a blue hen and a turquoise-gray male. I was told I could get blue, turquoise, gray, turquoise-gray, and
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
          "Hi!
          I recently purchased a pair of ringnecks, a blue hen and a turquoise-gray male.  I was told I could get blue, turquoise, gray, turquoise-gray, and turquoise-blue chicks from them.  Is this true, and how do I figure the probabilities?

          Thanks!
          Mary"

          Hey Mary, Terry & Every Birdie,
          again as we discussed parblue varieties lately ; it all depends on the precise genotype of your male. He could be either ;

          singleGrey-turquoise

          singleGrey-turquoiseblue

          doubleGrey-turquoise

          doubleGrey-turquoiseblue

          Of course wheter he is of one or the other genotypes ; his mating to a blue hen will influence the offsprings phenotypes & genotypes...

          Do you have any details regarding his parents' phenotypes ? If only one of his parent is/was Grey (which includes Grey & Grey-turquoise) ; then he is without any doubt singleGrey but if both his parents are/were Grey ; then he could be either single or doubleGrey. 

          How about her parents' phenotypes ???

          Best regards,
          Stéphane aka Tintin,
          Ruby Eyes Aviary.

          "You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
          - Antoine De Saint-Exupéry
           


          Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ? Yahoo! Magasinage.
        • Mary @ Small Friends Aviary
          Thanks so much for the info... and I think I missed the parblue discussion. I m sorry. I do not know the parent s history. It was not disclosed to me, except
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
            Thanks so much for the info... and I think I missed the parblue discussion.  I'm sorry.  I do not know the parent's history.  It was not disclosed to me, except that the lady who sold them to me said the gentleman she bought the male from (a ringneck breeder in UT) said that together they'd produce blue, gray, or turquoise.  But as I was reading about turquoise, I realized it wasn't a color in and of itself but a combination, so wasn't sure what I'd get. 
             
            Wish I had more information.
            Thanks,
            Mary

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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          • Stephane Tintin
            Thanks so much for the info... and I think I missed the parblue discussion. I m sorry. I do not know the parent s history. It was not disclosed to me,
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
              "Thanks so much for the info... and I think I missed the parblue discussion.  I'm sorry.  I do not know the parent's history.  It was not disclosed to me, except that the lady who sold them to me said the gentleman she bought the male from (a ringneck breeder in UT) said that together they'd produce blue, gray, or turquoise.  But as I was reading about turquoise, I realized it wasn't a color in and of itself but a combination, so wasn't sure what I'd get. 
               
              Wish I had more information.
              Thanks,
              Mary"
               
              Hey again Mary & Every Birdie,
              turquoise is indeed a primary mutation and not a combination...
               
              Being that doubleGrey specimens are quite uncommon compared to singleGrey specimens and that is which ever series, we should consider that your cock should most probably be either singleGrey-turquoise or singleGrey-turquoiseblue. Here are the expectations from these two possibilities when mated to a blue hen ;
               
              singleGrey-turquoise X blue :
               
              ½ turquoiseblue male & female offsprings
              ½ singleGrey-turquoiseblue male & female offsprings
               
              singleGrey-turquoiseblue X blue :
               
              ¼ blue male & female offsprings
              ¼ singleGrey-blue (Grey) male & female offsprings
              ¼ turquoiseblue male & female offsprings
              ¼ singleGrey-turquoiseblue male & female offsprings
               
              IF any Sex-Linked coloured offsprings such as ino (albino, parblue aka creamino, lutino...), cinnamon, pallid aka lime (erraneously refered to as lacewings) are produced from this pair ; it would guaranty that the cock is split for the SL gene (ex. singleGrey-turquoise/ino) and that would in turn guaranty those SL coloured offsprings to be visually sexed as being hens. In turn half of the male offsprings would get to be split for the SL gene but no hint whatsoever would tell these from the non-split male offsprings. Wich means IF again SL female offsprings are produced from this pair ; that male offsprings will be described as being 'possibly split' (ex. turquoise possibly split cinnamon)
               

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            • Mary @ Small Friends Aviary
              That s wonderful information. Thank you!!!! I think the second possibility is more probable given that more closely resembles what I was told. :) Thanks so
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
                Message
                That's wonderful information.  Thank you!!!!  I think the second possibility is more probable given that more closely resembles what I was told.  :)  Thanks so much again.  Here's hoping they work the nestbox soon!

                Mary
                Small Friends Aviary ~ where the little birds love to play
                 
                Small Friends Press ~ the books our pets could write, if they could write books.
                 
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