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RE: [Genetics-Psittacine] Slaty

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  • Dirk Van den Abeele
    Hi Didier, The answer on this is easy. We considered the possibility that this was maybe a grey mutation because, like you said, this is also a dominant
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 30, 2004
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      Hi Didier,

       

      The answer on this is easy.  We considered the possibility that this was maybe a grey mutation because, like you said, this is also a dominant mutation and it looks grey. But grey is a mutation of the spongy zone and slaty is something completely different.  Slaty is a mutation of the keratin. Normally the keratin has a “milky”  appearance, however, in this mutation it actually appears to be completely transparent.  So what to do, if there appears a true grey mutation?

      About the colour, in combination with green, the birds are not what we can call ‘greygreen’, it looks completely different. The name slaty was adopted to distinguish this mutation from the sex-linked slate mutation in Budgerigars. This name is accepted by several European societies.

       

      Dirk Van den Abeele

       

      Personal Homepage  http://www.agapornis.be

      Homepage MUTAVI  http://www.mutavi.info

      Homepage BVA  http://www.agapornidenclub.be

       


      Van: Mervilde Didier [mailto:didier.mervilde@...]
      Verzonden: vrijdag 30 april 2004 9:05
      Aan: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
      Onderwerp: [Genetics-Psittacine] Slaty

       

      Hi Everyone,

       

      Recently I had a discussion with a friend of mine who is breeding slaty fischeri Lovebirds in England and we discussed the reason that name was given.

      As a formal judge of the Belgian Lovebird Society I know that the name "slaty" was given by Inte Onsman to show the difference between the "slate" in Budgerigars and at that time the new mutation in Fischeri Lovebirds. Because the inheritance of the new Fischeri mutation was not clear at that time starting from the color we saw, a lot of people thought that it was a slate mutant. Later on it was proven that we were wrong.

      We all need to know that in Budgerigars the slate mutation is sex-linked and in Fischeri Lovebirds it is dominant.

      Starting with this in mind my friend from England and I discussed this because if we took as base the genetics of budgerigars we have to deal with the common grey budgerigars who are also dominant ( to put it right as a budgie breeder I also know that in budgies there is a recessive grey but that bird is not common anymore)

      To put it easy for the breeders my friend asked me why we didn't use the Genetics of Budgerigars to put new names in other species. It would be reasonable to named the new fischeri mutation "Grey" just like we did in budgerigars.

      It could have some sense because currently we also know that slaty is combined with the dark factors and so we have slaty, slaty with one dark factor and slaty with two dark factors just like the grey mutation in budgies.

      And other point is that in English it seems that slate and slaty have the same expression and in that way it can be confusing for the English speaking people.

      In the dictionary I found : Slaty is an adjective which describes a color : of,containing,or characteristic of slate;also : grey like slate.

      My question is now : "What is the group thinking about this ?"

       

      Regards,

       

      Didier Mervilde

       

       

    • Dirk Van den Abeele
      Sandy, Maybe you are not ware, but in Europe they also speak English :-) ! About your other question: as Inte already wrote The sex-linked slate mutation in
      Message 2 of 16 , May 1, 2004
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        Sandy,

         

        Maybe you are not ware, but in Europe they also speak English J !

         

        About your other question: as Inte already wrote “The sex-linked slate mutation in Budgerigars is unique for this species and never found in other species so far.”

         

        Dirk Van den Abeele

         

        Personal Homepage  http://www.agapornis.be

        Homepage MUTAVI  http://www.mutavi.info

        Homepage BVA  http://www.agapornidenclub.be

         


        Van: sandravandoren [mailto:sandravandoren@...]
        Verzonden: vrijdag 30 april 2004 20:30
        Aan: Genetics-Psittacine@yahoogroups.com
        Onderwerp: [Genetics-Psittacine] Re: Slaty

         

        Greetings Dirk,

        If there're more than 25 languages in Europe maybe is common sense to
        pick one language which is common among the European countries (not
        English)and pick a name and that way the name is European. Since it's
        agreed in Europe and used in Europe the name should be European.
        My question was not answered which was the other species do not have
        slate as well as slaty in the same species so why not pick another
        less confusing name for this bird?

        Regards,
        Sandy


      • Terry Martin
        Didier said ... I have trouble seeing how the two terms are so confusing. They are different words in English and have slightly different meanings. And it is
        Message 3 of 16 , May 3, 2004
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          Didier said
           
          >And other point is that in English it seems that slate and slaty have the same expression and in that way it can be confusing for the English speaking people.
          >In the dictionary I found : Slaty is an adjective which describes a color : of,containing,or characteristic of slate;also : grey like slate.
          >My question is now : "What is the group thinking about this ?"
           
                  I have trouble seeing how the two terms are so confusing. They are different words in English and have slightly different meanings. And it is very apt that Slaty means 'like slate', indicating that it is similar but different.
           
                  The only confusion would be for new breeders unaware that there were two distinct mutations. They might mistakenly conclude that a spelling error occurred. But once the distinction was understood, I do not have a problem with understanding which mutation is being discussed.
           
                  To say that the words are too close as to cause confusion, is merely a statement on most of the English language!
           
                  Another example of two distinct mutations with similar names are the Opaline mutation in parrots and the Opal mutation in finches and canaries. Once again, they are distinctive entities with no relationship to each other. If you were unaware of these two different mutation names, perhaps you could think one is just a mispelling or derivative of the other. But as soon as you are made aware of the two different mutations, all future confusion should be solved.
           
                  However I can think of one example where a mutation name is used under different spellings in different countries, which may lead one to think different mutations are being discussed. That is the Opaline Bourke which is various referred to as Rosa, Rose and Rosey. But here it is only a species specific name rather than a true universal name. And also the explanation is simple. Rosa being the Dutch (or perhaps latin) name for the mutation, it should be translated into English as Rose, just as we translate Bruin into Brown, etc. So in English, the name should be Rose. Rosey is therefore an inaccurate translation of the name and should be phased out.
           
                  Terry
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