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Re: RX Filter Frequency Response

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  • Hide
    Hi Andrew, Well maybe it s the effective modification but hard to re-solder these capacitors....hi Why these BPF is so severe? It s impossible for builders who
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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      Hi Andrew,

      Well maybe it's the effective modification but hard to re-solder
      these capacitors....hi

      Why these BPF is so severe?
      It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
      tools.

      ja9mat Hidehiko.

      --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "vk6ygr" <vk6ygr@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Tasa and Hidehiko
      >
      > Would it help if the 6M bandpass filter capacitors C50B, C51B and C52B were soldered underneath the board so that they were physically away from L20B?
      >
      > Likewise moving L2N underneath the board away from the BNC socket?
      >
      > Cheers
      > Andrew
      >
      > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Tasa,
      > >
      > > A happy new year!
      > >
      > > Well I add the trimmer capacitor with parallel to C10N as you
      > > mentioned.
      > >
      > > The result is better with about 12pF trimmer setting.
      > > This is effective only for 6m response,I think.
      > > And I get IL < 2dBm from 50MHz to 52Mhz,peak is -1.6dB at 50.5MHz.
      > >
      > > All other filters seems good.
      > > I uploaded these result again into ja9mat photo folder.
      > > This time I changed my measurement procedure from DG8SAQ's VNWA
      > > to GigaSt Ver5(Japanese Spectrum Analyzer with TG).
      > > I think VNWA is hard to measure with accuracy because my measurement
      > > fixture is not so good. hi.
      > >
      > > Anyway I will start the next step phase-9 transmitter.
      > >
      > > Thanks for useful information.
      > >
      > > Best 72/73 de JA9MAT hidehiko.
      > >
      > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Tasa,
      > > >
      > > > OK all your advice.
      > > > I will try to fix my response more effective.
      > > >
      > > > Anyway all band seems well in receiving this evening.
      > > > But the band is not so good condx.
      > > >
      > > > Have a nice new year!
      > > >
      > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
      > > >
      > > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Sinisa Tasic <yu1lm@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Hide,
      > > > >  
      > > > > IL means insertion loss as you wrote.
      > > > >  
      > > > > There is no error at PCB  for filter section  general/or individual BP. Inductors as  component have some tolerances and it is possible some differences! The most sensitive BP is 6m! I find that general BP has not always good  frequency response at the end 73-75MHz. Experimentally I find that it  is necessary add 22-33pF C10N* parallel with C10N (82pF)then it has much flat response. In some cases L2N =47uH is too much close to input BNC  remove them toward  R2B to not touch BNC!(in new G59MK3 version I moved L2N SRI)
      > > > > You have DG8SAQ network check BP for 6m at cold when it is not in circuit with two semi-coax cables soldered at 6m relay ends.
      > > > > By the way how you measure BP filters response? If you measure at "cold" no power to G59MK2 board than responses are not quite real as they are when you disconnect  C1R and measure then !
      > > > > All responses you obtain is more than enough good for G59MK2 correct work but  it can be better at way I explained in previously message!
      > > > >  
      > > > > VY 73 Tasa YU1LM/QRP
      > > > >
      > > > >  
      > > > >  
      > > > >
      > > > > --- On Wed, 12/29/10, Hide <qrper72@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > From: Hide <qrper72@>
      > > > > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
      > > > > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 11:37 PM
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >  
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Tasa,
      > > > >
      > > > > "IL" means "insertion loss" I think.
      > > > > And I do not find any mistake with soldering, the same with
      > > > > the manual and schematic.
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway it seems not so bad response and I will continue to
      > > > > build the next phase.
      > > > > Is there any problem?
      > > > >
      > > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z
      It depends on how picky you want to be I guess. Many people have built it with no test equipment, and are happy with it s operation. If built the way shown
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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        It depends on how picky you want to be I guess.
         
        Many people have built it with "no" test equipment, and are happy with it's operation.
         
        If built the way shown you get good performance through all bands.
         
        Bruce
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Hide
        Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 4:53 AM
        Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response


        Why these BPF is so severe?
        It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
        tools.

        ja9mat Hidehiko.






        =======
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      • Sinisa Tasic
        Hi all and Hide,   First I wish you and all  Happy New Year and all the best!   BP are not severe as you mentioned it has moderate selectivity and they was
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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          Hi all and Hide,
           
          First I wish you and all  Happy New Year and all the best!
           
          BP are not severe as you mentioned it has moderate selectivity and they was design that can handlel normal componenets tolerances! There is no need for NWA but it can be good help!I am at New Year and Christmas holiday I am Orhodox and our Chirstmas is shifted for 2 weeks !!! I will be back at job 10. January and I can made picture of 6m BP from instruments!! Your 6m is good at 6m ,good IL but outside selectivity and curve shape is not good??
          Proposal to solder some 6m components from back side it is not bad but it has too be tested!!
           
          VY 73 Tasa YU1LM/QRP

          --- On Sat, 1/1/11, Hide <qrper72@...> wrote:

          From: Hide <qrper72@...>
          Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
          To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:53 AM

           
          Hi Andrew,

          Well maybe it's the effective modification but hard to re-solder
          these capacitors....hi

          Why these BPF is so severe?
          It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
          tools.

          ja9mat Hidehiko.

          --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "vk6ygr" <vk6ygr@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Tasa and Hidehiko
          >
          > Would it help if the 6M bandpass filter capacitors C50B, C51B and C52B were soldered underneath the board so that they were physically away from L20B?
          >
          > Likewise moving L2N underneath the board away from the BNC socket?
          >
          > Cheers
          > Andrew
          >
          > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Tasa,
          > >
          > > A happy new year!
          > >
          > > Well I add the trimmer capacitor with parallel to C10N as you
          > > mentioned.
          > >
          > > The result is better with about 12pF trimmer setting.
          > > This is effective only for 6m response,I think.
          > > And I get IL < 2dBm from 50MHz to 52Mhz,peak is -1.6dB at 50.5MHz.
          > >
          > > All other filters seems good.
          > > I uploaded these result again into ja9mat photo folder.
          > > This time I changed my measurement procedure from DG8SAQ's VNWA
          > > to GigaSt Ver5(Japanese Spectrum Analyzer with TG).
          > > I think VNWA is hard to measure with accuracy because my measurement
          > > fixture is not so good. hi.
          > >
          > > Anyway I will start the next step phase-9 transmitter.
          > >
          > > Thanks for useful information.
          > >
          > > Best 72/73 de JA9MAT hidehiko.
          > >
          > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Tasa,
          > > >
          > > > OK all your advice.
          > > > I will try to fix my response more effective.
          > > >
          > > > Anyway all band seems well in receiving this evening.
          > > > But the band is not so good condx.
          > > >
          > > > Have a nice new year!
          > > >
          > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
          > > >
          > > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Sinisa Tasic <yu1lm@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi Hide,
          > > > >  
          > > > > IL means insertion loss as you wrote.
          > > > >  
          > > > > There is no error at PCB  for filter section  general/or individual BP. Inductors as  component have some tolerances and it is possible some differences! The most sensitive BP is 6m! I find that general BP has not always good  frequency response at the end 73-75MHz. Experimentally I find that it  is necessary add 22-33pF C10N* parallel with C10N (82pF)then it has much flat response. In some cases L2N =47uH is too much close to input BNC  remove them toward  R2B to not touch BNC!(in new G59MK3 version I moved L2N SRI)
          > > > > You have DG8SAQ network check BP for 6m at cold when it is not in circuit with two semi-coax cables soldered at 6m relay ends.
          > > > > By the way how you measure BP filters response? If you measure at "cold" no power to G59MK2 board than responses are not quite real as they are when you disconnect  C1R and measure then !
          > > > > All responses you obtain is more than enough good for G59MK2 correct work but  it can be better at way I explained in previously message!
          > > > >  
          > > > > VY 73 Tasa YU1LM/QRP
          > > > >
          > > > >  
          > > > >  
          > > > >
          > > > > --- On Wed, 12/29/10, Hide <qrper72@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > From: Hide <qrper72@>
          > > > > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
          > > > > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 11:37 PM
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >  
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi Tasa,
          > > > >
          > > > > "IL" means "insertion loss" I think.
          > > > > And I do not find any mistake with soldering, the same with
          > > > > the manual and schematic.
          > > > >
          > > > > Anyway it seems not so bad response and I will continue to
          > > > > build the next phase.
          > > > > Is there any problem?
          > > > >
          > > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >


        • Hide
          Hi Tasa, Yes, I think so...IL becomes better but... hi Andrew gave me a same suggestion to put the capacitors backside of the PCB.I can not do now but I will
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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            Hi Tasa,

            Yes, I think so...IL becomes better but... hi

            Andrew gave me a same suggestion to put the capacitors
            backside of the PCB.I can not do now but I will try when
            I purchase the new capacitors.
            Here I can not get them easily and I should have to order
            by mail order to Akihabara Tokyo.

            And I found I need not to be so nervous to hear from you.
            I will refer to your measurement result.

            Have a nice new year holiday!

            Thanks, ja9mat Hidehiko.


            --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Sinisa Tasic <yu1lm@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all and Hide,
            >  
            > First I wish you and all  Happy New Year and all the best!
            >  
            > BP are not severe as you mentioned it has moderate selectivity and they was design that can handlel normal componenets tolerances! There is no need for NWA but it can be good help!I am at New Year and Christmas holiday I am Orhodox and our Chirstmas is shifted for 2 weeks !!! I will be back at job 10. January and I can made picture of 6m BP from instruments!! Your 6m is good at 6m ,good IL but outside selectivity and curve shape is not good??
            > Proposal to solder some 6m components from back side it is not bad but it has too be tested!!
            >  
            > VY 73 Tasa YU1LM/QRP
            >
            > --- On Sat, 1/1/11, Hide <qrper72@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Hide <qrper72@...>
            > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
            > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:53 AM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Andrew,
            >
            > Well maybe it's the effective modification but hard to re-solder
            > these capacitors....hi
            >
            > Why these BPF is so severe?
            > It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
            > tools.
            >
            > ja9mat Hidehiko.
            >
            > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "vk6ygr" <vk6ygr@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Tasa and Hidehiko
            > >
            > > Would it help if the 6M bandpass filter capacitors C50B, C51B and C52B were soldered underneath the board so that they were physically away from L20B?
            > >
            > > Likewise moving L2N underneath the board away from the BNC socket?
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Andrew
            > >
            > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Tasa,
            > > >
            > > > A happy new year!
            > > >
            > > > Well I add the trimmer capacitor with parallel to C10N as you
            > > > mentioned.
            > > >
            > > > The result is better with about 12pF trimmer setting.
            > > > This is effective only for 6m response,I think.
            > > > And I get IL < 2dBm from 50MHz to 52Mhz,peak is -1.6dB at 50.5MHz.
            > > >
            > > > All other filters seems good.
            > > > I uploaded these result again into ja9mat photo folder.
            > > > This time I changed my measurement procedure from DG8SAQ's VNWA
            > > > to GigaSt Ver5(Japanese Spectrum Analyzer with TG).
            > > > I think VNWA is hard to measure with accuracy because my measurement
            > > > fixture is not so good. hi.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway I will start the next step phase-9 transmitter.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for useful information.
            > > >
            > > > Best 72/73 de JA9MAT hidehiko.
            > > >
            > > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi Tasa,
            > > > >
            > > > > OK all your advice.
            > > > > I will try to fix my response more effective.
            > > > >
            > > > > Anyway all band seems well in receiving this evening.
            > > > > But the band is not so good condx.
            > > > >
            > > > > Have a nice new year!
            > > > >
            > > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Sinisa Tasic <yu1lm@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi Hide,
            > > > > >  
            > > > > > IL means insertion loss as you wrote.
            > > > > >  
            > > > > > There is no error at PCB  for filter section  general/or individual BP. Inductors as  component have some tolerances and it is possible some differences! The most sensitive BP is 6m! I find that general BP has not always good  frequency response at the end 73-75MHz. Experimentally I find that it  is necessary add 22-33pF C10N* parallel with C10N (82pF)then it has much flat response. In some cases L2N =47uH is too much close to input BNC  remove them toward  R2B to not touch BNC!(in new G59MK3 version I moved L2N SRI)
            > > > > > You have DG8SAQ network check BP for 6m at cold when it is not in circuit with two semi-coax cables soldered at 6m relay ends.
            > > > > > By the way how you measure BP filters response? If you measure at "cold" no power to G59MK2 board than responses are not quite real as they are when you disconnect  C1R and measure then !
            > > > > > All responses you obtain is more than enough good for G59MK2 correct work but  it can be better at way I explained in previously message!
            > > > > >  
            > > > > > VY 73 Tasa YU1LM/QRP
            > > > > >
            > > > > >  
            > > > > >  
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/29/10, Hide <qrper72@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > From: Hide <qrper72@>
            > > > > > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
            > > > > > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 11:37 PM
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >  
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi Tasa,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > "IL" means "insertion loss" I think.
            > > > > > And I do not find any mistake with soldering, the same with
            > > > > > the manual and schematic.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Anyway it seems not so bad response and I will continue to
            > > > > > build the next phase.
            > > > > > Is there any problem?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Hide
            Hi Bruce, Thanks again for your opinion. Yes I m a little nervous because I aim at perfection to build. Tasa,Andrew and you gave me a suggestions and I can
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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              Hi Bruce,

              Thanks again for your opinion.
              Yes I'm a little nervous because I aim at perfection
              to build.

              Tasa,Andrew and you gave me a suggestions and
              I can open my eyes to reality.

              Thanks, ja9mat Hidehiko.

              --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z" <kf1z@...> wrote:
              >
              > It depends on how picky you want to be I guess.
              >
              > Many people have built it with "no" test equipment, and are happy with it's operation.
              >
              > If built the way shown you get good performance through all bands.
              >
              > Bruce
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Hide
              > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 4:53 AM
              > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
              >
              >
              >
              > Why these BPF is so severe?
              > It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
              > tools.
              >
              > ja9mat Hidehiko.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > =======
              > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
              > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16610)
              > http://www.pctools.com/
              > =======
              >
            • Dragan Djordjevic 4O4A
              Guys, How do you inspect your PCBs? :) This video shows a simple way how to use web cam for that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQmVHcAMsI HNY 73, Dragan,
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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                Guys,

                How do you inspect your PCBs? :)

                This video shows a simple way how to use web cam for that
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQmVHcAMsI

                HNY

                73,
                Dragan, 4O4A
              • vk6ygr
                Hello Gents This is the most technical project I ve attempted so I m asking a few questions. Even if some of those questions are a bit daft I m hoping to
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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                  Hello Gents

                  This is the most technical project I've attempted so I'm asking a few questions. Even if some of those questions are a bit daft I'm hoping to ensure a successful project by learning from the technically gifted on this group.

                  I'm in the group whose "test" equipment consists of a multimeter and a frequency counter so rely on the goodwill of others to share their experiences, for which I'm very grateful.

                  Wishing you all a Happy New Year and much enjoyment from the Genesis Project.

                  Cheers
                  Andrew
                  VK6YGR


                  --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Bruce,
                  >
                  > Thanks again for your opinion.
                  > Yes I'm a little nervous because I aim at perfection
                  > to build.
                  >
                  > Tasa,Andrew and you gave me a suggestions and
                  > I can open my eyes to reality.
                  >
                  > Thanks, ja9mat Hidehiko.
                  >
                  > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z" <kf1z@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It depends on how picky you want to be I guess.
                  > >
                  > > Many people have built it with "no" test equipment, and are happy with it's operation.
                  > >
                  > > If built the way shown you get good performance through all bands.
                  > >
                  > > Bruce
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Hide
                  > > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 4:53 AM
                  > > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Why these BPF is so severe?
                  > > It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
                  > > tools.
                  > >
                  > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > =======
                  > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
                  > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16610)
                  > > http://www.pctools.com/
                  > > =======
                  > >
                  >
                • nick
                  Hi Andrew - GL with assembly and adjustment. Please rest assured that support is here and will be gladly provided in any form/shape required :-) Patience and
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 1, 2011
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                    Hi Andrew -
                     
                    GL with assembly and adjustment. Please rest assured that support is here and will be gladly provided in any form/shape
                    required :-)
                     
                    Patience and persistence and the only two pre-requirements.
                     
                    Take it easy, ask questions and you'll get there for sure.
                     
                    (I got your email re spares).
                     
                    73 Nick VK1AA / VK2DX
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: vk6ygr
                    Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 2:41 PM
                    Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response

                     

                    Hello Gents

                    This is the most technical project I've attempted so I'm asking a few questions. Even if some of those questions are a bit daft I'm hoping to ensure a successful project by learning from the technically gifted on this group.

                    I'm in the group whose "test" equipment consists of a multimeter and a frequency counter so rely on the goodwill of others to share their experiences, for which I'm very grateful.

                    Wishing you all a Happy New Year and much enjoyment from the Genesis Project.

                    Cheers
                    Andrew
                    VK6YGR

                    --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Hide" <qrper72@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Bruce,
                    >
                    > Thanks again for your opinion.
                    > Yes I'm a little nervous because I aim at perfection
                    > to build.
                    >
                    > Tasa,Andrew and you gave me a suggestions and
                    > I can open my eyes to reality.
                    >
                    > Thanks, ja9mat Hidehiko.
                    >
                    > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z" <kf1z@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > It depends on how picky you want to be I guess.
                    > >
                    > > Many people have built it with "no" test equipment, and are happy with it's operation.
                    > >
                    > > If built the way shown you get good performance through all bands.
                    > >
                    > > Bruce
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Hide
                    > > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 4:53 AM
                    > > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: RX Filter Frequency Response
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Why these BPF is so severe?
                    > > It's impossible for builders who does not have a VNA or maesurement
                    > > tools.
                    > >
                    > > ja9mat Hidehiko.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > =======
                    > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
                    > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16610)
                    > > http://www.pctools.com/
                    > > =======
                    > >
                    >

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