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Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5

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  • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
    the usb hang is a windows 10 thing... Please use the latest update 21022014 The DSP error is likely that you have not allowed windows to overwrite files
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 25, 2017
      the usb "hang" is a windows 10 thing...
       
       
      Please use the latest update 21022014
       
      The DSP error is "likely" that you have not allowed windows to overwrite files when
      unpacking the "update" into the GSDR folder.
      Must do that.
       
      start there, get that resolved first.
       
       
      TUN maybe greyed out, because "receive only" box is checked
       
       
       
      Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 4:03 PM
      Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5
       
       

      I've believe that I've got  a couple of problems.

      1. Powering on the board:
          Should one start the Genesis radio software first and then plug in USB
         
          or
          have everything plugged in and powered up, then start the software?

              When I do the latter, software hangs at 2 seconds. Unless I unplug USB and then re-plug.


      Only version of Genesis software that works is original or update 12072010, other versions fail with DSP error.


      I think this is the more difficult part.


      2. Board is recognized:

          I'm able to get the board recognized by the computer, but the Genesis radio software "thinks" that the board is powered off, I forget where I saw it say that.

          I'm able to hear WWV on 4 different frequencies, but audio is low.

          AF Preamp works and can hear changes in volume as expected.
          USB goes green.
          TUN is always grey'd out.

          I've been able to update firmware to 1.1.9 and put in a serial number.


          I get no waterfall display, is that related?
          When I try to playback the test audio, I still see no waterfall.


      Bruce KI5LN

         

    • brucehoe
      So it only took me almost exactly 1 year to start building the kit (needed something to do during the Christmas/New Year vacation). I tried to pull this post
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 27, 2017
      So it only took me almost exactly 1 year to start building the kit (needed something to do during the Christmas/New Year vacation).

      I tried to pull this post because, I did manage to figure out what was going on, but see that it got answered anyway, thanks Bruce!

      For quite a while during my initial testing, I couldn't get the program to come out of standby.

      Did further reading and ended up reinstalling the software in the specific directory and then did all of the updates, which brought it up to v2.0.15 (as you suggested).

      Now everything works with the software.

      So, I started working on phase 6 and ran into a problem that I've not been able to resolve completely, so I stopped building.

      The layout of my board is different than what's on the web pages and has the RX Image calibrator (mk2 or mk3).
      My best guess with the changes is this: I understand R9N, it's an attenuator or isolator, but should C15N (100nf) go to the relay input and C25N (12pf) go to ground?

      I've included a picture of the section of the board in question.

      If you'd like additional pictures of the build, such as the image calibrator sectiion, please let me know.

      Bruce KI5LN
    • brucehoe
      I see that I should have searched the forum for my answer. Please ignore it. Bruce KI5LN
      Message 3 of 16 , Dec 27, 2017
        I see that I should have searched the forum for my answer. Please ignore it.
        Bruce KI5LN
      • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
        ok. But just to remind you, look in the G59 folder in the files section. From: brucehoe@yahoo.com [GenesisRadio] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 2:23 AM To:
        Message 4 of 16 , Dec 27, 2017
          ok.
           
          But just to remind you, look in the G59 folder in the files section.  Smile
           
           
           
          Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 2:23 AM
          Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5
           
           

          I see that I should have searched the forum for my answer. Please ignore it.
          Bruce KI5LN

        • brucehoe
          Bruce, I ve been trying stuff (verifying components, voltages) for a couple of days now. I ve even gone and gotten a third audio card. It took me some time to
          Message 5 of 16 , Dec 30, 2017
            Bruce,
            I've been trying stuff (verifying components, voltages) for a couple of days now.
            I've even gone and gotten a third audio card.

            It took me some time to get audio to be louder (most of this was difficulty with sound card).
            HDSDR was a little helpful getting the audio resolved.

            I seem to have trouble with 2 things.

            I'm probably going to build phase 12 ahead of time to see if that will help, as I don't really have a good signal source. I've been trying to use a grid dip meter and it works, but isn't very stable although I was able to calibrate the various bands.

            I've been going to one frequency where there have been long SSB conversations. I see the same signal offset from the local oscillator by the same amount, it's always the opposite sideband and same strength.

            Everything I've tried with doing the hardware adjustment for nulling the opposite image does nothing.

            Second thing that is driving me nuts because somewhere you said having 192Khz is good for bandwidth, when I select higher sample rates, the width shown of the panadapter narrows and fills about 1/6 of the display.
            Am I misunderstanding how the panafall display combo works?
            When I select spectrum, the number of peaks doubles as I go from 192000 down to 24000 - seems opposite to me.
            Phase shows dotted spirals,
            Phase 2 shows nothing unless I run RF down below 15 , is this a hint that only one of the receive channels is working?
            Bruce KI5LN
          • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
            Ok, if image signal is EXACTLY the same amplitude ( and I mean exact ) as the wanted signal, that means the soundcard is only getting a mono signal from radio
            Message 6 of 16 , Dec 31, 2017
              Ok, if image signal is EXACTLY the same amplitude ( and I mean exact ) as the wanted signal,
              that means the soundcard is only getting a mono signal from radio ( or left or right is missing)
               
              So, first off, what soundcard do you have connected, and can you send me a screenshot of
              the GSDR audio tab ( soundcard settings)
               
              The bandwidth in panadapter means that the soundcard is not capable of higher sample rates, OR
              has to be configured in its own software or in windows....
               
               
               
              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 9:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5
               
               

              Bruce,
              I've been trying stuff (verifying components, voltages) for a couple of days now.
              I've even gone and gotten a third audio card.

              It took me some time to get audio to be louder (most of this was difficulty with sound card).
              HDSDR was a little helpful getting the audio resolved.

              I seem to have trouble with 2 things.

              I'm probably going to build phase 12 ahead of time to see if that will help, as I don't really have a good signal source. I've been trying to use a grid dip meter and it works, but isn't very stable although I was able to calibrate the various bands.

              I've been going to one frequency where there have been long SSB conversations. I see the same signal offset from the local oscillator by the same amount, it's always the opposite sideband and same strength.

              Everything I've tried with doing the hardware adjustment for nulling the opposite image does nothing.

              Second thing that is driving me nuts because somewhere you said having 192Khz is good for bandwidth, when I select higher sample rates, the width shown of the panadapter narrows and fills about 1/6 of the display.
              Am I misunderstanding how the panafall display combo works?
              When I select spectrum, the number of peaks doubles as I go from 192000 down to 24000 - seems opposite to me.
              Phase shows dotted spirals,
              Phase 2 shows nothing unless I run RF down below 15 , is this a hint that only one of the receive channels is working?
              Bruce KI5LN

            • brucehoe
              So I ve taken several pictures of what I m describing how the bandwidth changes. I ve used the one stable source that I ve easily got, a 6 meter handheld on
              Message 7 of 16 , Dec 31, 2017
              So I've taken several pictures of what I'm describing how the bandwidth changes.

              I've used the one "stable" source that I've easily got, a 6 meter handheld on low power, with no antenna connected to G59.

              I've currently got 3 soundcards in my computer:
                  built-in Realtek  HD audio
                  new Sound Blaster Audigy RX (box says 192Khz, 24 bit, stereo direct)
                  Sound Blaster Audigy
              I essentially get same results from any of the 3, which would you like me to continue testing on?

              On both pins of KP5, I get approximately 150mv P-2-P.

              Thanks in advance for the help.
              Bruce KI5LN
            • brucehoe
              I ve done further troubleshooting, but have a basic question. How much signal should be going to the sound card? When I compare it to a standard line in which
              Message 8 of 16 , Jan 1 4:10 PM
              I've done further troubleshooting, but have a basic question.

              How much signal should be going to the sound card?

              When I compare it to a standard line in which is giving me 600mv, I'm getting considerably less.

              Bruce KI5LN
            • brucehoe
              Well, I figured out that my IC1R was bad. I replaced it with the one for the transmitter section (which isn t built yet). Audio is now much better. Now things
              Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3 3:35 AM
                Well, I figured out that my IC1R was bad. I replaced it with the one for the transmitter section (which isn't built yet). Audio is now much better.

                Now things are better but still can't get rid of the opposite sideband.
                None of my spectrums look like other peoples, so I don't know what's going on with that.
                Bruce KI5LN
              • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
                Hmm. The ICs from TX section are not useable replacements for IC1R or IC2R. You said now things are better ... What exactly was better? And what led you to
                Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3 9:53 AM
                  Hmm.
                   
                  The ICs from TX section are not useable replacements for IC1R or IC2R.
                   
                  You said "now things are better"... What exactly was better?
                  And what led you to think IC1R was bad?
                   
                   
                  I assume that you have a stereo cable ( tip, ring, sleeve) from kp5 to soundcard line input correct?
                  Have you tested this cable to be SURE it's ok?
                  (continuity, and no shorts)
                   
                  must connect to a line input NOT a microphone input.
                  If the line in and mic are a shared input, soundcard software must be configured to see the input as line in, not microphone.
                   
                   
                  Let's take this to email, instead of on the group for a bit.
                   
                  Just hit "reply to sender" down at the bottom
                   
                   
                  Bruce
                  kf1z
                   
                   
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:35 AM
                  Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5
                   
                   

                  Well, I figured out that my IC1R was bad. I replaced it with the one for the transmitter section (which isn't built yet). Audio is now much better.

                  Now things are better but still can't get rid of the opposite sideband.
                  None of my spectrums look like other peoples, so I don't know what's going on with that.
                  Bruce KI5LN

                • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
                  too early I guess ok on IC1R, I was thinking of the two op-amps, not the mixer so, yes, that could be a culprit in the image issue. however, so could IC3G...
                  Message 11 of 16 , Jan 3 9:57 AM
                    too early I guess
                     
                    ok on IC1R, I was thinking of the two op-amps, not the mixer  Smile
                     
                    so, yes, that could be a culprit  in the image issue.
                     
                    however, so could IC3G... please verify all outputs ok
                    ( or look at IC1R inputs)
                     
                     
                     
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:35 AM
                    Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5
                     
                     

                    Well, I figured out that my IC1R was bad. I replaced it with the one for the transmitter section (which isn't built yet). Audio is now much better.

                    Now things are better but still can't get rid of the opposite sideband.
                    None of my spectrums look like other peoples, so I don't know what's going on with that.
                    Bruce KI5LN

                  • brucehoe
                    The reason I though IC1R was bad, is that I was seeing a square wave on one of the outputs (don t remember which one, might have been pin 9, but changing it
                    Message 12 of 16 , Jan 3 7:50 PM
                    The reason I though IC1R was bad, is that I was seeing a "square" wave on one of the outputs (don't remember which one, might have been pin 9, but changing it got rid of that symptom). It was the only output that looked different than the other 3 outputs.

                    I'm going to put all the pictures of all pins except 7 & 14, so that it might help others during troubleshooting.
                    Scope was AC coupled for all pictures, but checked 5,6,12,13 with DC coupling and the waveform is almost the same.
                    I've included another picture of what I see on 75M ssb under both Genesis radio and HDSDR.
                    Bruce KI5LN
                  • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
                    I m not convinced the signals are exactly the same amplitude. Please find a signal, that is by itself, like WWV, CHU, or some strong AM station with a nice
                    Message 13 of 16 , Jan 3 8:41 PM
                      I'm not convinced the signals are exactly the same amplitude.
                       
                      Please find a signal, that is by itself, like WWV, CHU, or some strong AM station with a nice tall carrier. ( or use the grid dip meter )
                       
                       
                       
                      Then, select panadapter only, get rid of waterfall.
                       
                       
                      Then go to GSDR  Setings> Display      check bot vertical and horizontal grid boxes
                       
                      set MAX to something that really stretches the carrier to near the top of panadapter.
                       
                      and send a screenshot.
                       
                      it is a crucial step to troubleshoot this
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:50 PM
                      Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5 [16 Attachments]
                       
                       

                      The reason I though IC1R was bad, is that I was seeing a "square" wave on one of the outputs (don't remember which one, might have been pin 9, but changing it got rid of that symptom). It was the only output that looked different than the other 3 outputs.

                      I'm going to put all the pictures of all pins except 7 & 14, so that it might help others during troubleshooting.
                      Scope was AC coupled for all pictures, but checked 5,6,12,13 with DC coupling and the waveform is almost the same.
                      I've included another picture of what I see on 75M ssb under both Genesis radio and HDSDR.
                      Bruce KI5LN

                    • Bruce Greenleaf kf1z
                      I think I know your issue, especially if you are running a soundblaster card but lets see your picture first From: brucehoe@yahoo.com [GenesisRadio] Sent:
                      Message 14 of 16 , Jan 3 8:44 PM
                        I think I know your issue, especially if you are running a  soundblaster card
                         
                        but lets see your picture first
                         
                         
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:50 PM
                        Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5 [16 Attachments]
                         
                         

                        The reason I though IC1R was bad, is that I was seeing a "square" wave on one of the outputs (don't remember which one, might have been pin 9, but changing it got rid of that symptom). It was the only output that looked different than the other 3 outputs.

                        I'm going to put all the pictures of all pins except 7 & 14, so that it might help others during troubleshooting.
                        Scope was AC coupled for all pictures, but checked 5,6,12,13 with DC coupling and the waveform is almost the same.
                        I've included another picture of what I see on 75M ssb under both Genesis radio and HDSDR.
                        Bruce KI5LN

                      • Bruce Hoenig
                        You mentioned that it could be because of a sound blaster card, but I get same symptoms with Realtek audio card. What do you expect to see in the picture?If
                        Message 15 of 16 , Jan 4 2:23 PM
                          You mentioned that it could be because of a sound blaster card, but I get same symptoms with Realtek audio card. 
                          What do you expect to see in the picture?
                          If is a problem with sound card, suggestions?
                          I'll work on getting the screenshot when I get back to my home.
                          Bruce KI5LN


                          On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 20:42, 'Bruce Greenleaf kf1z' bruce@... [GenesisRadio]
                          <GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          I'm not convinced the signals are exactly the same amplitude.
                           
                          Please find a signal, that is by itself, like WWV, CHU, or some strong AM station with a nice tall carrier. ( or use the grid dip meter )
                           
                           
                           
                          Then, select panadapter only, get rid of waterfall.
                           
                           
                          Then go to GSDR  Setings> Display      check bot vertical and horizontal grid boxes
                           
                          set MAX to something that really stretches the carrier to near the top of panadapter.
                           
                          and send a screenshot.
                           
                          it is a crucial step to troubleshoot this
                           
                           
                           
                           
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:50 PM
                          Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G59 working-ish at phase 5 [16 Attachments]
                           
                           

                          The reason I though IC1R was bad, is that I was seeing a "square" wave on one of the outputs (don't remember which one, might have been pin 9, but changing it got rid of that symptom). It was the only output that looked different than the other 3 outputs.

                          I'm going to put all the pictures of all pins except 7 & 14, so that it might help others during troubleshooting.
                          Scope was AC coupled for all pictures, but checked 5,6,12,13 with DC coupling and the waveform is almost the same.
                          I've included another picture of what I see on 75M ssb under both Genesis radio and HDSDR.
                          Bruce KI5LN

                        • brucehoe
                          Have an update. Rebuilt audio isolation with a new cable that I purchased from local surplus dealer. Cable is aluminum shield wrapped, with braid around that
                          Message 16 of 16 , Jan 5 7:31 PM

                          Have an update.

                          Rebuilt audio isolation with a new cable that I purchased from local surplus dealer. Cable is aluminum shield wrapped, with braid around that and 2 nice stranded wires inside).

                          With the audio isolator in place things are now working.


                          Original stereo cable is still a working stereo cable (I measure megohms from all 3 sections, must be very bad shielding).


                          Have been able to go through and do both hardware and software image rejection calibrations.

                          Thanks for hanging in there with me to resolve this issue.

                          Included HDSDR picture to show differences between isolated vs non-isolated.

                          Bruce KI5LN
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