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G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

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  • Angel Andres
    Hi, I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 23, 2013
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    Hi,

    I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

    HW / SW settings
    G11
    EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer

    Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
    Smeter val -40.076
    Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

    Noise floor measurents (attachment)
    G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
    noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
    S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

    With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

    It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

    Thanks
    73 Angel M0HDF
     
  • Bruce kf1z
    The calibration values really don t mean much. I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...? the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as
    Message 2 of 7 , Jun 23, 2013
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      The calibration values really don't mean much.
       
      I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...?
       
      the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as expected for EMU0204
       
      Bruce
      kf1z
       
       
      Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 5:53 AM
      Subject: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements [1 Attachment]
       
       

      Hi,

      I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

      HW / SW settings
      G11
      EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer
       
      Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
      Smeter val -40.076
      Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

      Noise floor measurents (attachment)
      G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
      noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
      S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)
       
      With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

      It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

      Thanks
      73 Angel M0HDF
       
    • Dimitrios Pallis
      to measure your noise floor first of all you need a signal generator with known output level in db use it with cw 500 hz filter and calibrate the smeter,.
      Message 3 of 7 , Jun 24, 2013
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        to measure your noise floor first of all you need a signal generator with known output level in db
        use it with cw 500 hz filter and calibrate the smeter,. after that remove the Signal generator and put a dummy load

        then your real noise floor is what you see in dbm

        137 db noise floor is realy very good on hf bands. you dont need sensitivity.... Sensitivity on HF is like an Urban Legend!!
        every new transeiver is enouph sensitive... you need dynamic range and some other characteristics... but definetely if you
        put an antenna on your calibrated transiever and the noise floor is increasing then you are enouph sensitive...
        (on HF band always)

        73 de SV1JGW

        Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

        http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



        To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
        From: kf1z@...
        Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:37:40 -0700
        Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

         

        The calibration values really don't mean much.
         
        I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...?
         
        the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as expected for EMU0204
         
        Bruce
        kf1z
         
         
        Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 5:53 AM
        Subject: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements [1 Attachment]
         
         

        Hi,

        I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

        HW / SW settings
        G11
        EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer
         
        Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
        Smeter val -40.076
        Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

        Noise floor measurents (attachment)
        G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
        noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
        S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)
         
        With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

        It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

        Thanks
        73 Angel M0HDF
         

      • Dimitrios Pallis
        On my G59 and ediroll i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance.. 130 dbm is
        Message 4 of 7 , Jun 24, 2013
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          On my G59 and ediroll i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance.. 130 dbm is enouph on 10m im using the preamp. On 6m dont know i dont uis it on 6m...
          anyway generaly you dont need preamps.. on lower bands like 160 80 40 im using always attenuattor



          73 de SV1JGW

          Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

          http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



          From: mc90606@...
          To: genesisradio@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements
          Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:49:59 +0000

          to measure your noise floor first of all you need a signal generator with known output level in db
          use it with cw 500 hz filter and calibrate the smeter,. after that remove the Signal generator and put a dummy load

          then your real noise floor is what you see in dbm

          137 db noise floor is realy very good on hf bands. you dont need sensitivity.... Sensitivity on HF is like an Urban Legend!!
          every new transeiver is enouph sensitive... you need dynamic range and some other characteristics... but definetely if you
          put an antenna on your calibrated transiever and the noise floor is increasing then you are enouph sensitive...
          (on HF band always)

          73 de SV1JGW

          Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

          http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



          To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
          From: kf1z@...
          Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:37:40 -0700
          Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

           

          The calibration values really don't mean much.
           
          I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...?
           
          the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as expected for EMU0204
           
          Bruce
          kf1z
           
           
          Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 5:53 AM
          Subject: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements [1 Attachment]
           
           

          Hi,

          I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

          HW / SW settings
          G11
          EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer
           
          Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
          Smeter val -40.076
          Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

          Noise floor measurents (attachment)
          G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
          noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
          S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)
           
          With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

          It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

          Thanks
          73 Angel M0HDF
           

        • Angel Andres
          Hi Jimmy I agree with you. I think you are referring to the MDS test procedure to measure sensitivity with the signal generator and 500Hz CW filter (3dB
          Message 5 of 7 , Jun 24, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Jimmy

            I agree with you. I think you are referring to the MDS test procedure to measure sensitivity with the signal generator and 500Hz CW filter (3dB increase over noise). This is your real noise floor. Unfortunately, I do not have access yet to a signal generator with low amplitude or calibrated attenuator to perform this test here. I did my calibration using the AUTO function in GSDR with -35dBm sinusoidal input, which I think it is too high. The values I reported are what I am seeing on the screen following the calibration.

            On my G11, the noise always goes up when I connect the antenna with the preamp off up to 15m, this is a good sign as you explain.

            I am interested about your comment - "i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance."  Would you mind to explain this further and how have you adjusted it? 

            73 de M0HDF
            Angel 
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------
            De: Dimitrios Pallis <mc90606@...>
            Para: "GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com" <genesisradio@yahoogroups.com>
            Enviado: Lunes 24 de junio de 2013 11:53
            Asunto: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

             
            On my G59 and ediroll i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance.. 130 dbm is enouph on 10m im using the preamp. On 6m dont know i dont uis it on 6m...
            anyway generaly you dont need preamps.. on lower bands like 160 80 40 im using always attenuattor



            73 de SV1JGW

            Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

            http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



            From: mc90606@...
            To: genesisradio@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements
            Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:49:59 +0000

            to measure your noise floor first of all you need a signal generator with known output level in db
            use it with cw 500 hz filter and calibrate the smeter,. after that remove the Signal generator and put a dummy load

            then your real noise floor is what you see in dbm

            137 db noise floor is realy very good on hf bands. you dont need sensitivity.... Sensitivity on HF is like an Urban Legend!!
            every new transeiver is enouph sensitive... you need dynamic range and some other characteristics... but definetely if you
            put an antenna on your calibrated transiever and the noise floor is increasing then you are enouph sensitive...
            (on HF band always)

            73 de SV1JGW

            Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

            http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



            To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
            From: kf1z@...
            Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:37:40 -0700
            Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

             

            The calibration values really don't mean much.
             
            I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...?
             
            the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as expected for EMU0204
             
            Bruce
            kf1z
             
             
            Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 5:53 AM
            Subject: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements [1 Attachment]
             
             

            Hi,

            I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

            HW / SW settings
            G11
            EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer
             
            Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
            Smeter val -40.076
            Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

            Noise floor measurents (attachment)
            G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
            noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
            S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)
             
            With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

            It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

            Thanks
            73 Angel M0HDF
             



          • Dimitrios Pallis
            on a last year msg i had posted a construction based on a Tasa s project for a simple signal generator. if you want i can find it. of course still the
            Message 6 of 7 , Jun 24, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              on a last year msg i had posted a construction based on a Tasa's project for a simple signal generator. if you want i can find it. of course still the calibration of genereator ...

              73 de SV1JGW

              Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

              http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



              To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
              From: angel_andresfer@...
              Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:07:34 +0100
              Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

               

              Hi Jimmy

              I agree with you. I think you are referring to the MDS test procedure to measure sensitivity with the signal generator and 500Hz CW filter (3dB increase over noise). This is your real noise floor. Unfortunately, I do not have access yet to a signal generator with low amplitude or calibrated attenuator to perform this test here. I did my calibration using the AUTO function in GSDR with -35dBm sinusoidal input, which I think it is too high. The values I reported are what I am seeing on the screen following the calibration.

              On my G11, the noise always goes up when I connect the antenna with the preamp off up to 15m, this is a good sign as you explain.

              I am interested about your comment - "i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance."  Would you mind to explain this further and how have you adjusted it? 

              73 de M0HDF
              Angel 
              -----------------------------------------------------------------------
              De: Dimitrios Pallis <mc90606@...>
              Para: "GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com" <genesisradio@yahoogroups.com>
              Enviado: Lunes 24 de junio de 2013 11:53
              Asunto: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

               
              On my G59 and ediroll i have set the sensitivity from my sound card @ 130dbm without preamp . with this way i have good dynamic range performance.. 130 dbm is enouph on 10m im using the preamp. On 6m dont know i dont uis it on 6m...
              anyway generaly you dont need preamps.. on lower bands like 160 80 40 im using always attenuattor



              73 de SV1JGW

              Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

              http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



              From: mc90606@...
              To: genesisradio@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements
              Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:49:59 +0000

              to measure your noise floor first of all you need a signal generator with known output level in db
              use it with cw 500 hz filter and calibrate the smeter,. after that remove the Signal generator and put a dummy load

              then your real noise floor is what you see in dbm

              137 db noise floor is realy very good on hf bands. you dont need sensitivity.... Sensitivity on HF is like an Urban Legend!!
              every new transeiver is enouph sensitive... you need dynamic range and some other characteristics... but definetely if you
              put an antenna on your calibrated transiever and the noise floor is increasing then you are enouph sensitive...
              (on HF band always)

              73 de SV1JGW

              Dimitrios Jimmy Pallis

              http://sw1jgw.50webs.com/



              To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
              From: kf1z@...
              Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:37:40 -0700
              Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements

               

              The calibration values really don't mean much.
               
              I assume you used the automatic calibration routine...?
               
              the noise floor of –137dbm is fairly good, and as expected for EMU0204
               
              Bruce
              kf1z
               
               
              Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 5:53 AM
              Subject: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements [1 Attachment]
               
               

              Hi,

              I have done the level calibration following the documented procedure with a -35dBm sinusoidal input. This was the lowest input of the sig. generator i borrowed. 

              HW / SW settings
              G11
              EMU 0204 48 KHz, 2048 buffer
               
              Level calibration @ performed with -35dBm signal @ 14.110MHz
              Smeter val -40.076
              Display val -70.300 (panadapter)

              Noise floor measurents (attachment)
              G11 SDR on 20m connected to 50 Ohm dummy load
              noise floor in panadapter -137dBm
              S-meter -113dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)
               
              With the Preamp on, the S-meter level raises to -111dBm (USB 2.7KHz filter)

              It would be nice to understand if my calibration values are reasonable and how my noise level measurements compare with other users.

              Thanks
              73 Angel M0HDF
               




            • Bruce kf1z
              From: Dimitrios Pallis Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 3:49 AM To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise
              Message 7 of 7 , Jun 24, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                 
                 
                Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 3:49 AM
                Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] G11 level calibration values & noise floor measurements
                 


                "........... you dont need sensitivity.... Sensitivity on HF is like an Urban Legend!!   "      >>    Care to explain that ?  If you do any weak signal work ( digital modes, QRP etc)
                Then of course sensitivity matters. I do not disagree dynamic range is also important however.

                "...every new transeiver is enouph sensitive... "  >>  I assume you mean commercially built ANALOG transceivers? Or if SDR, those that do NOT use soundcards ( or audio ADC built on board).?
                 
                "...but definetely if you put an antenna on your calibrated transiever and the noise floor is increasing then you are enouph sensitive... (on HF band always)"  >>  I disagree.
                The reason I disagree, is that just because the noise floor rises when you connect an antenna, does NOT take into account the noise may be locally generated interference.
                ( think man made electrical noise) and NOT be normal, atmospheric "band noise".
                 
                If you can prove ( or at least strongly believe Smile ) that the noise contained in the noise floor is normal "band noise". Then yes, I agree that if you
                see a 3-6db rise when connecting an antenna, that you have enough 'sensitivity'.
                 
                 




                 
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