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RE: [GenesisRadio] Echo with amplifier?

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  • Tim
    Hi Daoljan, I got one of the kits from Communications Concepts (CCI). I believe it was the AN762 kit. Uses a pair of MRF 421s, and I am getting about 100
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
      Hi Daoljan,

      I got one of the kits from Communications Concepts (CCI).  I believe it was the 'AN762' kit. Uses a pair of MRF 421s, and I am getting about 100 watts with 10 out of the G11.

      The LPF filter board is from a WB6 who sells some other DSP/SDR stuff.

      I'll send along a picture later.

      Tim W5FN

      Sent from my complicated hand-held thingie.

      From: Dalojan
      Sent: ‎3/‎10/‎2013 3:31 AM
      To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Echo with amplifier?

      Not really a contribution to solve the problem but more a question.
      Is t possible to share some more information (schematics / lay-out etc.
      ) about your 100 watt amp? I'm using a G11 with about 10 Watt out and
      want to make some more (up to 100 Watt) power on HF.
      73 PA0DMM


      Op 10-3-2013 0:19, Tim schreef:
      > Hi folks,
      >
      > <Finally> got my amplifier for the G11 completed, and now I have about
      > 100 watts with a pair of MRF421s & low pass filter board.
      >
      > However, I noticed that when I turned on the amp (even into a dummy
      > load), there appears to be a bit of an echo on my signal.
      >
      > I checked with the antenna connected (a guy with a Flex recorded me),
      > and sure enough, there's a small echo.
      >
      > Just wondered if anybody else has experienced the same thing.
      >
      > The SWR meter on the G11 is happy, so the match into the amp appears to
      > be OK.
      >
      > I have all supplies & computer running off of the same power strip.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Tim W5FN
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >



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    • Charles Nolin
      Hi Dalojan,   I have a few different amps that I built and use.   The most popular ones are, The Juma, PA100D, 100w, all SMD kit from Finland. It isn t
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
        Hi Dalojan,
         
        I have a few different amps that I built and use.
         
        The most popular ones are, The Juma, PA100D, 100w, all SMD kit from Finland. It
        isn't hard to build but must be able to work with @ 0805 SMD.
        I built the matching TRX2 transceiver.
         
        I built and use the HardRock50. Its @50w, both amps work very well and
        are well protected, to shut down with high SWR, excessive current, and high temps.
        The other amps are little projects that I don't use much with the G11.
         
        I hope this helps.
         
        Chuck Nolin
        WA6LTV/4
         
         
        From: Dalojan <dalojan@...>
        To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:31 AM
        Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Echo with amplifier?

        Not really a contribution to solve the problem but more a question.
        Is t possible to share some more information (schematics / lay-out etc.
        ) about your 100 watt amp? I'm using a G11 with about 10 Watt out and
        want to make some more (up to 100 Watt) power on HF.
        73 PA0DMM


        Op 10-3-2013 0:19, Tim schreef:
        > Hi folks,
        >
        > <Finally> got my amplifier for the G11 completed, and now I have about
        > 100 watts with a pair of MRF421s & low pass filter board.
        >
        > However, I noticed that when I turned on the amp (even into a dummy
        > load), there appears to be a bit of an echo on my signal.
        >
        > I checked with the antenna connected (a guy with a Flex recorded me),
        > and sure enough, there's a small echo.
        >
        > Just wondered if anybody else has experienced the same thing.
        >
        > The SWR meter on the G11 is happy, so the match into the amp appears to
        > be OK.
        >
        > I have all supplies & computer running off of the same power strip.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Tim W5FN
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups
        Links
        >
        >
        >



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      • Dalojan
        Hi CHuck Nolin, I will take a look at the Juma amp. It is about the power I want to have and the 10 Watt of the G11 and the 100 Watt of the amp will make a big
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
          Hi CHuck Nolin,

          I will take a look at the Juma amp. It is about the power I want to have and the 10 Watt of the G11 and the 100 Watt of the amp will make a big difference.  Many thanks for the information.

          Jan Mulder
          PA0DMM


          Op 10-3-2013 20:32, Charles Nolin schreef:
           
          Hi Dalojan,
           
          I have a few different amps that I built and use.
           
          The most popular ones are, The Juma, PA100D, 100w, all SMD kit from Finland. It
          isn't hard to build but must be able to work with @ 0805 SMD.
          I built the matching TRX2 transceiver.
           
          I built and use the HardRock50. Its @50w, both amps work very well and
          are well protected, to shut down with high SWR, excessive current, and high temps.
          The other amps are little projects that I don't use much with the G11.
           
          I hope this helps.
           
          Chuck Nolin
          WA6LTV/4
           
           
          From: Dalojan <dalojan@...>
          To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:31 AM
          Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Echo with amplifier?

          Not really a contribution to solve the problem but more a question.
          Is t possible to share some more information (schematics / lay-out etc.
          ) about your 100 watt amp? I'm using a G11 with about 10 Watt out and
          want to make some more (up to 100 Watt) power on HF.
          73 PA0DMM


          Op 10-3-2013 0:19, Tim schreef:
          > Hi folks,
          >
          > <Finally> got my amplifier for the G11 completed, and now I have about
          > 100 watts with a pair of MRF421s & low pass filter board.
          >
          > However, I noticed that when I turned on the amp (even into a dummy
          > load), there appears to be a bit of an echo on my signal.
          >
          > I checked with the antenna connected (a guy with a Flex recorded me),
          > and sure enough, there's a small echo.
          >
          > Just wondered if anybody else has experienced the same thing.
          >
          > The SWR meter on the G11 is happy, so the match into the amp appears to
          > be OK.
          >
          > I have all supplies & computer running off of the same power strip.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Tim W5FN
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



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        • Tim
          Hi Bob, I don t quite understand what you mean. Thanks! Tim W5FN
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
            Hi Bob,

            I don't quite understand what you mean.

            Thanks!

            Tim W5FN


            > I have had the echo problem in other applications and have always found it to be the sound card looping back,can be fixed by looking at the inputs switched on, hope this helps.
            > VK3BOB Bob
            >
            > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
            >
          • begr12
            In the transmit mode, check that ALL other sound sources into the sound card ( sound system ) are turned off, except the needed ones. Echo is usually caused by
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
              In the transmit mode, check that ALL other sound sources into the sound card ( sound system ) are turned off, except the needed ones.
              Echo is usually caused by some extra uneeded feed being left on.
              See if this has any result.
              Some times its a matter of going through all the possibilities and eliminating them one by one.
              VK3BOb Bob

              --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Bob,
              >
              > I don't quite understand what you mean.
              >
              > Thanks!
              >
              > Tim W5FN
              >
              >
              > > I have had the echo problem in other applications and have always found it to be the sound card looping back,can be fixed by looking at the inputs switched on, hope this helps.
              > > VK3BOB Bob
              > >
              > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@> wrote:
              > >
              >
            • Tim
              I checked (in rx mode tho) all of the normal kinds of things - wave mix, etc, and all were turned off. Will put in TX mode & check again. Noticed that the
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
                I checked (in rx mode tho) all of the 'normal' kinds of things - wave   mix, etc, and all were turned off. Will put in TX mode & check again.

                Noticed that the echo was on, but levels were at minimum. Didn't make any difference.

                I do hear the echo even without the amp on.. Hadn't noticed before.  Gotta be a loop somewhere!

                Thanks,

                Tim W5FN

                From: begr12
                Sent: ‎3/‎10/‎2013 7:30 PM
                To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: Echo with amplifier?

                In the transmit mode, check that ALL other sound sources into the sound card ( sound system ) are turned off, except the needed ones.
                Echo is usually caused by some extra uneeded feed being left on.
                See if this has any result.
                Some times its a matter of going through all the possibilities and eliminating them one by one.
                VK3BOb  Bob

                --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Bob,
                >
                > I don't quite understand what you mean.
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > Tim W5FN
                >
                >
                > > I have had the echo problem in other applications and have always found it to be the sound card looping back,can be fixed by looking at the inputs switched on, hope this helps.
                > > VK3BOB  Bob
                > >
                > > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@> wrote:
                > >
                >




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              • Tim O'Hara
                Tim, I am having the exact same problem with my G59. I have tried just about every combination of the internal PC card and/or the Emu 0402 separate or in
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 10, 2013
                  Tim,
                  I am having the exact same problem with my G59. I have tried just about every combination of the internal PC card and/or the Emu 0402 separate or in combination using a PC/game boom mic/headset and I cannot get rid of the echo. If I listen to the audio via the G59 Mic out port it sounds great. When I try to send it to one of the sound cards it has so much echo on it that it goes into saturation. If I reduce the gains to just about zero I can hear the audio on my other radio, but it does not sound very good and it doesn't drive the G59 very well. I also tried my Heil Boom/Headset with HC5 cartrige, when I use the EMU-0204 to drive it I can produce audio but it sounds scrachy and had the same echo. So I suspect its all in the sound card(s) but would love to hear of anyone having success with G59 SSB and how they did it. 

                  Tim-W0YV
                   
                  > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: tim@...
                  > Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 17:19:51 -0600
                  > Subject: [GenesisRadio] Echo with amplifier?
                  >
                  > Hi folks,
                  >
                  > <Finally> got my amplifier for the G11 completed, and now I have about
                  > 100 watts with a pair of MRF421s & low pass filter board.
                  >
                  > However, I noticed that when I turned on the amp (even into a dummy
                  > load), there appears to be a bit of an echo on my signal.
                  >
                  > I checked with the antenna connected (a guy with a Flex recorded me),
                  > and sure enough, there's a small echo.
                  >
                  > Just wondered if anybody else has experienced the same thing.
                  >
                  > The SWR meter on the G11 is happy, so the match into the amp appears to
                  > be OK.
                  >
                  > I have all supplies & computer running off of the same power strip.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Tim W5FN
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GenesisRadio/
                  >
                  > <*> Your email settings:
                  > Individual Email | Traditional
                  >
                  > <*> To change settings online go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GenesisRadio/join
                  > (Yahoo! ID required)
                  >
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                  >
                • Tim
                  Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to the echo. I notice
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 11, 2013
                    Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up
                    things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to
                    the echo.

                    I notice that whenever I go from RX to TX, that there is an RF pulse of
                    full power that comes out of the TX. The pulse width can vary from 10
                    to about 50mS.

                    This happens on both SSB and CW. .

                    Now, going from TX to RX, there is an audible 'ker-chirp' whenever I
                    letup on the PTT, or after the last touch of the key. Most of the time
                    I wouldn't hear it on CW, unless I have the bandwidth opened up with the
                    slider.

                    Anybody else have these issues?


                    Thanks!!

                    Tim W5FN
                  • Tim
                    I would like to get some information from those of you that have working G11s. 1. What sound card are you using? 2. Do you have any of the things that I
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 11, 2013
                      I would like to get some information from those of you that have working
                      G11s.

                      1. What sound card are you using?
                      2. Do you have any of the things that I reported below?

                      I am trying to see if perhaps it is my soundcard that is giving me the
                      problems
                      with the ker-chirps & the RF pulse (and hopefully with the echo issue).

                      thanks,

                      Tim W5FN


                      > Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up
                      > things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to
                      > the echo.
                      >
                      > I notice that whenever I go from RX to TX, that there is an RF pulse of
                      > full power that comes out of the TX. The pulse width can vary from 10
                      > to about 50mS.
                      >
                      > This happens on both SSB and CW. .
                      >
                      > Now, going from TX to RX, there is an audible 'ker-chirp' whenever I
                      > letup on the PTT, or after the last touch of the key. Most of the time
                      > I wouldn't hear it on CW, unless I have the bandwidth opened up with the
                      > slider.
                      >
                      > Anybody else have these issues?
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks!!
                      >
                      > Tim W5FN
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • vk6abm
                      Tim Re your questions - 1. I am using an Eridol FA-66 in supported mode 2. I did experience an echo when I tried to set up as unsupported sound card - the echo
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 11, 2013
                        Tim
                        Re your questions -
                        1. I am using an Eridol FA-66 in supported mode

                        2. I did experience an echo when I tried to set up as unsupported sound card - the echo was attributed to having VAC tab selected and the secondary channel using the same input as the main audio channel - the extra latency creating the echo - I do recall a type of 'ker-chirp' with that setup too - I gave up on the unsupported mode but that might not be an option for you

                        Your earlier emails indicated the echo was present with the amplifier connected - did you confirm that the G11 into D/L is echo free?(level could be quite low)

                        73
                        Brian


                        --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I would like to get some information from those of you that have working
                        > G11s.
                        >
                        > 1. What sound card are you using?
                        > 2. Do you have any of the things that I reported below?
                        >
                        > I am trying to see if perhaps it is my soundcard that is giving me the
                        > problems
                        > with the ker-chirps & the RF pulse (and hopefully with the echo issue).
                        >
                        > thanks,
                        >
                        > Tim W5FN
                        >
                        >
                        > > Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up
                        > > things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to
                        > > the echo.
                        > >
                        > > I notice that whenever I go from RX to TX, that there is an RF pulse of
                        > > full power that comes out of the TX. The pulse width can vary from 10
                        > > to about 50mS.
                        > >
                        > > This happens on both SSB and CW. .
                        > >
                        > > Now, going from TX to RX, there is an audible 'ker-chirp' whenever I
                        > > letup on the PTT, or after the last touch of the key. Most of the time
                        > > I wouldn't hear it on CW, unless I have the bandwidth opened up with the
                        > > slider.
                        > >
                        > > Anybody else have these issues?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks!!
                        > >
                        > > Tim W5FN
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Tim
                        Hi Brian, Thanks for the info. I do hear some amount of echo even with the amplifier disconnected, however when connected it s really noticeable. I wonder if
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 11, 2013
                          Hi Brian,

                          Thanks for the info.  I do hear some amount of echo even with the amplifier disconnected, however when connected it's really noticeable.

                          I wonder if someone else may have a Turtle Beach card that doesn't exhibit the echo and chirp.

                          Thanks again!

                          Tim W5FN


                          From: vk6abm
                          Sent: ‎3/‎11/‎2013 10:37 PM
                          To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: Echo with amplifier?




                          Tim
                          Re your questions -
                             1. I am using an Eridol FA-66 in supported mode

                             2. I did experience an echo when I tried to set up as unsupported sound card - the echo was attributed to having VAC tab selected and the secondary channel using the same input as the main audio channel - the extra latency creating the echo - I do recall a type of 'ker-chirp' with that setup too - I gave up on the unsupported mode but that might not be an option for you

                          Your earlier emails indicated the echo was present with the amplifier connected - did you confirm that the G11 into D/L is echo free?(level could be quite low)

                          73
                          Brian


                          --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I would like to get some information from those of you that have working
                          > G11s.
                          >
                          > 1.  What sound card are you using?
                          > 2.  Do you have any of the things that I reported below?
                          >
                          > I am trying to see if perhaps it is my soundcard that is giving me the
                          > problems
                          > with the ker-chirps & the RF pulse (and hopefully with the echo issue).
                          >
                          > thanks,
                          >
                          > Tim W5FN
                          >
                          >
                          > > Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up
                          > > things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to
                          > > the echo.
                          > >
                          > > I notice that  whenever I go from RX to TX, that there is an RF pulse of
                          > > full power that comes out of the TX.  The pulse width can vary from 10
                          > > to about 50mS.
                          > >
                          > > This happens on both SSB and CW. .
                          > >
                          > > Now, going from TX to RX, there is an audible 'ker-chirp' whenever I
                          > > letup on the PTT, or after the last touch of the key.  Most of the time
                          > > I wouldn't hear it on CW, unless I have the bandwidth opened up with the
                          > > slider.
                          > >
                          > > Anybody else have these issues?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Thanks!!
                          > >
                          > > Tim W5FN
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >




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                        • Goran
                          Disconnect audio output from G11 input and connect headphones. Set TX IF shift to 0 and try Phone modes (set TX IF shift to 700 for CW test). This is transmit
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 12, 2013
                            Disconnect audio output from G11 input and connect headphones. Set TX IF shift to 0 and try Phone modes (set TX IF shift to 700 for CW test). This is transmit I/Q modulate signal and all imperfection can be easily heard. Or, even better, connect to another sound card input and start another SDR program (usually Winrad because absence automatic image corrections). Now you have cheap AF spectrum analyzer. All RX/TX transitions, unwanted by-product are displayed and heard. This method is sufficient for software troubleshooting.


                            73 yt7pwr


                            --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, Tim <tim@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Brian,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the info. I do hear some amount of echo even with the amplifier disconnected, however when connected it's really noticeable.
                            >
                            > I wonder if someone else may have a Turtle Beach card that doesn't exhibit the echo and chirp.
                            >
                            > Thanks again!
                            >
                            > Tim W5FN
                            >
                            >
                          • Dalojan
                            Hello Tim, I m using a G11 serial number 140, use an ESI juli@ soundcard at 96kHz sample rate, 192kHz is not as good as 96 kHz due too increased noise. I also
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 12, 2013
                              Hello Tim,

                              I'm using a G11 serial number 140, use an ESI juli@ soundcard at 96kHz
                              sample rate, 192kHz is not as good as 96 kHz due too increased noise. I
                              also have a peak in the output at almost every start of transmission but
                              it is not to full power, it is about 25 to 50% power and not alsways the
                              same level. I did find out that settings of the compressor end compander
                              do influence this, at least in my case.
                              The PC is running Windows 7 on an i7 2900k CPU and 16 G of ram.

                              73 de PA0DMM

                              > I would like to get some information from those of you that have working
                              > G11s.
                              >
                              > 1. What sound card are you using?
                              > 2. Do you have any of the things that I reported below?
                              >
                              > I am trying to see if perhaps it is my soundcard that is giving me the
                              > problems
                              > with the ker-chirps & the RF pulse (and hopefully with the echo issue).
                              >
                              > thanks,
                              >
                              > Tim W5FN
                              >
                              >
                              >> Since I am finishing up the G11 project (and starting to clean up
                              >> things), I have noticed a couple of more things that may be related to
                              >> the echo.
                              >>
                              >> I notice that whenever I go from RX to TX, that there is an RF pulse of
                              >> full power that comes out of the TX. The pulse width can vary from 10
                              >> to about 50mS.
                              >>
                              >> This happens on both SSB and CW. .
                              >>
                              >> Now, going from TX to RX, there is an audible 'ker-chirp' whenever I
                              >> letup on the PTT, or after the last touch of the key. Most of the time
                              >> I wouldn't hear it on CW, unless I have the bandwidth opened up with the
                              >> slider.
                              >>
                              >> Anybody else have these issues?
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Thanks!!
                              >>
                              >> Tim W5FN
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
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