Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Possible Error in BPF Digram

Expand Messages
  • Gene
    Bruce and the Group, I have looked at the new drawings posted Jan 21, 2013 for the G11. I would like to point out that there may be an error in the diagram for
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 19, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Bruce and the Group,

      I have looked at the new drawings posted Jan 21, 2013 for the G11. I would like to point out that there may be an error in the diagram for the BPF. I found that the location of C21B/C28B is actually after L6B/L9B and before L7B/L10B on the G11 board. It is not after L7B/L10B as shown on the drawing. I do not know if this will help anyone, I just want to contribute to the Group.



      Gene/AD8MW
    • Bruce KF1Z
      yup, you are right.... but at least it is correct in the schematics.... I ll change this eventually, so as not to cause confusion... Funny, that diagram has
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 19, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        yup, you are right....
         
        but at least it is correct in the schematics....
         
        I'll change this eventually, so as not to cause confusion...
         
         
        Funny, that diagram has been around since G11 first made available, and you're the first to mention it.
         
        And I never noticed either.
         
         
        Smile
         
         
        Thanks Gene
         
         
         
        From: Gene
        Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:08 PM
        Subject: [GenesisRadio] Possible Error in BPF Digram
         
         

        Bruce and the Group,

        I have looked at the new drawings posted Jan 21, 2013 for the G11. I would like to point out that there may be an error in the diagram for the BPF. I found that the location of C21B/C28B is actually after L6B/L9B and before L7B/L10B on the G11 board. It is not after L7B/L10B as shown on the drawing. I do not know if this will help anyone, I just want to contribute to the Group.

        Gene/AD8MW

      • Tim
        Hi All, Running version 23102012, and when I grab the panadapter & drag right or left, it changes frequencies in an odd way. For example, I m at 3.950, and
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 22, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi All,

          Running version 23102012, and when I grab the panadapter & drag right or
          left, it changes frequencies in an odd way.

          For example, I'm at 3.950, and drag to left (to go above 4.0), and
          rather than smoothly crossing the 'threshold', it jumps to 5.xx mhz &
          says GEN.

          I have smooth tuning checked, as well as 'outside IARU'.

          Just wondering why it does that (perhaps there's something else I forgot
          to check)!

          Oh, I can't run the latest software, as when I try and do the drag, I
          have to wait several seconds with the mouse clicked before it will
          respond by dragging. And then the drag is about 1/4 the speed of the
          drag in this version.

          Anyhow, just curious.

          Thanks,

          Tim W5FN
        • Tim
          Hi All, I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter. All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi All,

            I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter.

            All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w on my service monitor.

            Here is what I am seeing:

            BAND     FWD PWR     TP10 Voltage

            160        4.4 W       2.003
             80        4.4 W       1.989
             60        4.0 W       1.890
             40        9.2 W       1.939
             30       10.0 W       2.038
             20        9.9 W       1.929
             17       10.1 W       1.897
             15       10.8 W       1.911
             12        4.2 W       1.926
             10        4.0 W       1.902
              6       10.0 W       1.891


            Just curious how I can be seeing 4.4W on the display, when the TP10 voltage is 2.003.

            According to the calibration instructions, I set the output power for 10W on the power meter, then adjust P2S for 2.0 volts.
            on Page 10 of the schematics, the TP10 shows a label of TO_REW_UC.  ( I think this label should be TO_FORW_UC).

            Anyhow,. since it goes directly into the micro's A/D converter, how can the value be modified, if not in software?

            Thanks,

            Tim W5FN


          • Bruce KF1Z
            You need to specify..... WHAT meter is reading the FED power? The service monitor? or the meter in GSDR? If the GSDR meter, ( and output power is steady at 10w
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              You need to specify.....
               
               
              WHAT meter is reading the FED power?
              The service monitor? or the meter in GSDR?
               
               
              If the GSDR meter, ( and output power is steady at 10w on the service monitor/...)
               
              Then read the part of the calibration docs that tells you how to set the meter.
              That is the ADC Offset.
              In the same tab as Gain by Band settings
               
               
              Basically, the same as Gain by band, except the ADC offset only deals with the meter reading.
               
              Set these for each band to make your GSDR power meter read the same as external meter.
               
              I have not seen one yet that all the numbers would be the same.
              The ADC offset will vary by as much as 5 , but usually within 2 or 3.
               
               
              ( you are  correct about the label, BTW )
               
              Bruce
               
              From: Tim
              Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:30 PM
              Subject: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
               
               

               

               

               

              Hi All,


              I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter.

              All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w on my service monitor.

              Here is what I am seeing:

              BAND     FWD PWR     TP10 Voltage

              160        4.4 W       2.003
              80        4.4 W       1.989
              60        4.0 W       1.890
              40        9.2 W       1.939
              30       10.0 W       2.038
              20        9.9 W       1.929
              17       10.1 W       1.897
              15       10.8 W       1.911
              12        4.2 W       1.926
              10        4.0 W       1.902
                6       10.0 W       1.891


              Just curious how I can be seeing 4.4W on the display, when the TP10 voltage is 2.003.

              According to the calibration instructions, I set the output power for 10W on the power meter, then adjust P2S for 2.0 volts.
              on Page 10 of the schematics, the TP10 shows a label of TO_REW_UC.  ( I think this label should be TO_FORW_UC).

              Anyhow,. since it goes directly into the micro's A/D converter, how can the value be modified, if not in software?

              Thanks,

              Tim W5FN


            • Tim
              Aah, that should fix it. Is there a similar function to calibrate the s-meter on a band per band basis? I tried the calibrate function, but it seemed to
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Aah, that should fix it.

                Is there a similar function to calibrate the s-meter on a band per band basis?  I tried the calibrate function, but it seemed to change all bands.

                BTW, the only calibration docs I saw is the one that is mixed in with the assembly docs.

                Is there a separate document for calibration?

                Tnx again!!

                Tim W5FN

                Sent from my complicated hand-held thingie.

                From: Bruce   KF1Z
                Sent: ‎2/‎24/‎2013 5:58 PM
                To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??

                You need to specify.....
                 
                 
                WHAT meter is reading the FED power?
                The service monitor? or the meter in GSDR?
                 
                 
                If the GSDR meter, ( and output power is steady at 10w on the service monitor/...)
                 
                Then read the part of the calibration docs that tells you how to set the meter.
                That is the ADC Offset.
                In the same tab as Gain by Band settings
                 
                 
                Basically, the same as Gain by band, except the ADC offset only deals with the meter reading.
                 
                Set these for each band to make your GSDR power meter read the same as external meter.
                 
                I have not seen one yet that all the numbers would be the same.
                The ADC offset will vary by as much as 5 , but usually within 2 or 3.
                 
                 
                ( you are  correct about the label, BTW )
                 
                Bruce
                 
                From: Tim
                Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:30 PM
                Subject: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                 
                 

                 

                 

                 

                Hi All,


                I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter.

                All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w on my service monitor.

                Here is what I am seeing:

                BAND     FWD PWR     TP10 Voltage

                160        4.4 W       2.003
                80        4.4 W       1.989
                60        4.0 W       1.890
                40        9.2 W       1.939
                30       10.0 W       2.038
                20        9.9 W       1.929
                17       10.1 W       1.897
                15       10.8 W       1.911
                12        4.2 W       1.926
                10        4.0 W       1.902
                  6       10.0 W       1.891


                Just curious how I can be seeing 4.4W on the display, when the TP10 voltage is 2.003.

                According to the calibration instructions, I set the output power for 10W on the power meter, then adjust P2S for 2.0 volts.
                on Page 10 of the schematics, the TP10 shows a label of TO_REW_UC.  ( I think this label should be TO_FORW_UC).

                Anyhow,. since it goes directly into the micro's A/D converter, how can the value be modified, if not in software?

                Thanks,

                Tim W5FN


              • Bruce KF1Z
                Calibrating the S-meter for separate bands is not needed. You are actually calibrating the soundcard input for the S-meter. Separate bands are all treated the
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Calibrating the S-meter for separate bands is not needed.
                   
                  You are actually calibrating the soundcard input for the S-meter.
                  Separate bands are all treated the same , as they should be.
                   
                  There IS a way to adjust the minumum/maximum display level...
                  Just change it in "display' tab for each band, and those settings are automatically saved.
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  The document I was referring to is G11 TX adjustment by KF1Z
                  on the main Genesis website page
                   
                  bruce
                   
                   
                  From: Tim
                  Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:40 PM
                  Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                   
                   

                  Aah, that should fix it.

                  Is there a similar function to calibrate the s-meter on a band per band basis?  I tried the calibrate function, but it seemed to change all bands.

                  BTW, the only calibration docs I saw is the one that is mixed in with the assembly docs.

                  Is there a separate document for calibration?

                  Tnx again!!

                  Tim W5FN

                  Sent from my complicated hand-held thingie.

                  From: Bruce   KF1Z
                  Sent: ‎2/‎24/‎2013 5:58 PM
                  To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??

                  You need to specify.....
                   
                   
                  WHAT meter is reading the FED power?
                  The service monitor? or the meter in GSDR?
                   
                   
                  If the GSDR meter, ( and output power is steady at 10w on the service monitor/...)
                   
                  Then read the part of the calibration docs that tells you how to set the meter.
                  That is the ADC Offset.
                  In the same tab as Gain by Band settings
                   
                   
                  Basically, the same as Gain by band, except the ADC offset only deals with the meter reading.
                   
                  Set these for each band to make your GSDR power meter read the same as external meter.
                   
                  I have not seen one yet that all the numbers would be the same.
                  The ADC offset will vary by as much as 5 , but usually within 2 or 3.
                   
                   
                  ( you are  correct about the label, BTW )
                   
                  Bruce
                   
                  From: Tim
                  Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:30 PM
                  Subject: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                   
                   

                   

                   

                   

                  Hi All,


                  I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter.

                  All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w on my service monitor.

                  Here is what I am seeing:

                  BAND     FWD PWR     TP10 Voltage

                  160        4.4 W       2.003
                  80        4.4 W       1.989
                  60        4.0 W       1.890
                  40        9.2 W       1.939
                  30       10.0 W       2.038
                  20        9.9 W       1.929
                  17       10.1 W       1.897
                  15       10.8 W       1.911
                  12        4.2 W       1.926
                  10        4.0 W       1.902
                    6       10.0 W       1.891


                  Just curious how I can be seeing 4.4W on the display, when the TP10 voltage is 2.003.

                  According to the calibration instructions, I set the output power for 10W on the power meter, then adjust P2S for 2.0 volts.
                  on Page 10 of the schematics, the TP10 shows a label of TO_REW_UC.  ( I think this label should be TO_FORW_UC).

                  Anyhow,. since it goes directly into the micro's A/D converter, how can the value be modified, if not in software?

                  Thanks,

                  Tim W5FN


                • Tim
                  That fixed the TX levels. Tnx for the link. On the RX side, when I set a band I.e. 40 meters S-9 level, the other bands are close, but not identical. Would
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That fixed the TX levels.  Tnx for the link.

                    On the RX side, when I set a band I.e. 40 meters S-9 level, the other bands are close, but not identical.  Would component variations in the BP filters affect the signal levels (and the displayed signal level)?

                    Tim W5FN

                    From: Bruce   KF1Z
                    Sent: ‎2/‎24/‎2013 6:48 PM
                    To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??

                    Calibrating the S-meter for separate bands is not needed.
                     
                    You are actually calibrating the soundcard input for the S-meter.
                    Separate bands are all treated the same , as they should be.
                     
                    There IS a way to adjust the minumum/maximum display level...
                    Just change it in "display' tab for each band, and those settings are automatically saved.
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    The document I was referring to is G11 TX adjustment by KF1Z
                    on the main Genesis website page
                     
                    bruce
                     
                     
                    From: Tim
                    Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:40 PM
                    Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                     
                     

                    Aah, that should fix it.

                    Is there a similar function to calibrate the s-meter on a band per band basis?  I tried the calibrate function, but it seemed to change all bands.

                    BTW, the only calibration docs I saw is the one that is mixed in with the assembly docs.

                    Is there a separate document for calibration?

                    Tnx again!!

                    Tim W5FN

                    Sent from my complicated hand-held thingie.

                    From: Bruce   KF1Z
                    Sent: ‎2/‎24/‎2013 5:58 PM
                    To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??

                    You need to specify.....
                     
                     
                    WHAT meter is reading the FED power?
                    The service monitor? or the meter in GSDR?
                     
                     
                    If the GSDR meter, ( and output power is steady at 10w on the service monitor/...)
                     
                    Then read the part of the calibration docs that tells you how to set the meter.
                    That is the ADC Offset.
                    In the same tab as Gain by Band settings
                     
                     
                    Basically, the same as Gain by band, except the ADC offset only deals with the meter reading.
                     
                    Set these for each band to make your GSDR power meter read the same as external meter.
                     
                    I have not seen one yet that all the numbers would be the same.
                    The ADC offset will vary by as much as 5 , but usually within 2 or 3.
                     
                     
                    ( you are  correct about the label, BTW )
                     
                    Bruce
                     
                    From: Tim
                    Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:30 PM
                    Subject: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                     
                     

                     

                     

                     

                    Hi All,


                    I just finished the multi-band board, and am seeing some funny things on the power meter.

                    All bands have been adjusted via the PA adjustments for 10w on my service monitor.

                    Here is what I am seeing:

                    BAND     FWD PWR     TP10 Voltage

                    160        4.4 W       2.003
                    80        4.4 W       1.989
                    60        4.0 W       1.890
                    40        9.2 W       1.939
                    30       10.0 W       2.038
                    20        9.9 W       1.929
                    17       10.1 W       1.897
                    15       10.8 W       1.911
                    12        4.2 W       1.926
                    10        4.0 W       1.902
                      6       10.0 W       1.891


                    Just curious how I can be seeing 4.4W on the display, when the TP10 voltage is 2.003.

                    According to the calibration instructions, I set the output power for 10W on the power meter, then adjust P2S for 2.0 volts.
                    on Page 10 of the schematics, the TP10 shows a label of TO_REW_UC.  ( I think this label should be TO_FORW_UC).

                    Anyhow,. since it goes directly into the micro's A/D converter, how can the value be modified, if not in software?

                    Thanks,

                    Tim W5FN


                  • Bruce KF1Z
                    Yes! And the Low-pass filter too! But also keep in mind..... I don t know what you are using for a signal generator.. how well it is calibrated etc... But
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 24, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes!
                       
                      And the Low-pass filter too!
                       
                      But also keep in mind.....
                      I don't know what you are using for a signal generator.. how well it is calibrated etc...
                      But anything else in the RF path will affect the signal too of course...
                       
                      Coax length, tuner in-line, etc..
                       
                      But filters play a part certainly.
                       
                      In some cases, some slight changes in the inductors may be needed ( only if drastic differences, or you want to be "picky" Smile  )
                       
                      First, you can isolate the issue by by-passing the low-pass filter to rule it out.
                       
                      Use the 2nd RX antenna bnc and select "Second RX input", in Setup > General > Hardware Config.. in GSDR
                       
                      If the signal is the same strength as it was in the normal position, then the Band-pass filter is where changes may need to be made.
                      If the signal has improved, then it's the low-pass filter.  etc.
                       
                      the filters could lower the input signal by as much as ( but should NOT be MORE than...)  1 or 2 db
                       
                      You can also bypass ALL the filters, by removing the filter board, and running a jumper between J1B and J2B, as in the assembly of G11 on page 7.
                      Make note of a signal generator's signal ,  try on all bands...
                      Then put filter board back, and run the test again, and compare the signal strength.
                       
                      If there is more than 2db reduction in the signal strength ( not NOISE, just the signal)  then some filter "tweaking" may be needed.
                       
                       
                      The reasons for filter variations are:
                       
                      1) some wrong, or bad component
                      2) toroid winding "style".   IE: winding spacing, turns overlap, etc.
                      3) solder joints
                      4) capacitor tolerance
                       
                       
                      Bruce
                      kf1z
                       
                       
                      From: Tim
                      Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 8:08 PM
                      Subject: RE: [GenesisRadio] Power display issues??
                       
                       



                      On the RX side, when I set a band I.e. 40 meters S-9 level, the other bands are close, but not identical.  Would component variations in the BP filters affect the signal levels (and the displayed signal level)?

                      Tim W5FN
                    • Tim
                      Hi Bruce, Thanks for all the help! Power is spot on for all bands, and the receiver is now proper as well. I only had to tweak the BPF coils on the 6m to get
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 25, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Bruce,

                        Thanks for all the help!

                        Power is spot on for all bands, and the receiver is now proper as well.
                        I only had to tweak the BPF coils on the 6m to get all of the readings
                        within 1dB.

                        I forgot that my HP8924c falls off below 20mHz (original sig
                        generator). I switched over to one of my other signal generators that
                        work in the HF range, and all is good.

                        Thanks!

                        Tim W5FN
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.