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Re: G59 various GSDR issues

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  • yt7pwr2002
    1. For image issue try to stop WBIR function, turn on NB and watch what happens (do not change Losc or press ATT,AF and RF buttons). Audio settings are very
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 31, 2011
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      1. For image issue try to stop WBIR function, turn on NB and watch what happens (do not change Losc or press ATT,AF and RF buttons). Audio settings are very important ( start with MME for audio driver, 48000 for Sample Rate, 2048 for Buffer Size, 50mS for latency). In DSP section set Buffer Size to 2048 for all modes.
      2. Si570 works on 4x higher frequency then Losc show and output drops as you increase frequency.There is no mystery in that. After divider you should have digital signals "1" or "0"( 3.3V or 0V) and if you see voltage drop at IC3 output pins then your scope is not sensitive enough for measurement. To resolve this issue start with power supply, check Si570 soldering and if necessary remove extra solder mass (parasitic capacitance).
      If you still having problems send more info about software/hardware configuration.



      73 yt7pwr


      --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "imeins2003" <yahoo@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well I have finished building my G59 MkIII and apart from the usual frustrations about old instructions it went well.
      >
      > I have been having a *&@^! of a time with GSDR. I do a receive calibration, it nicely nulls out the image and all looks good and then suddenly it seems to revert almost as if only one channel of I/Q is suddenly being used. I do another calibration and it comes good again.
      >
      > I thought I had sound card issues or G59 hardware issues but then I tried the G59 using HDSDR, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Suddenly I have this fantastic RX performance, no images, no erratic behaviour etc. Is this a common finding, ie moving away from GSDR suddenly fixes all sort of problems?
      >
      > My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an LO output above a RX frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor rations, playing with the FDCO values etc without luck. Looking at the input (pin 3) of the dividers shows the amplified output of the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on 10M it is marginal.
      >
      > All suggestions appreciated.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Ingmar
      > VK1BGT
      > Canberra, Australia
      >
    • pa3csg
      Hi Goran et all, This output drop of the SI570... Will this improve if we put a higher freq. SI on that board? Will this still work with your control software?
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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        Hi Goran et all,

        This output drop of the SI570...
        Will this improve if we put a higher freq. SI on that board? Will this still work with your control software?

        Kind regards,

        Geert PA3CSG

        On 01-09-11 08:59, yt7pwr2002 wrote:
         

        1. For image issue try to stop WBIR function, turn on NB and watch what happens (do not change Losc or press ATT,AF and RF buttons). Audio settings are very important ( start with MME for audio driver, 48000 for Sample Rate, 2048 for Buffer Size, 50mS for latency). In DSP section set Buffer Size to 2048 for all modes.
        2. Si570 works on 4x higher frequency then Losc show and output drops as you increase frequency.There is no mystery in that. After divider you should have digital signals "1" or "0"( 3.3V or 0V) and if you see voltage drop at IC3 output pins then your scope is not sensitive enough for measurement. To resolve this issue start with power supply, check Si570 soldering and if necessary remove extra solder mass (parasitic capacitance).
        If you still having problems send more info about software/hardware configuration.

        73 yt7pwr

        --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "imeins2003" <yahoo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well I have finished building my G59 MkIII and apart from the usual frustrations about old instructions it went well.
        >
        > I have been having a *&@^! of a time with GSDR. I do a receive calibration, it nicely nulls out the image and all looks good and then suddenly it seems to revert almost as if only one channel of I/Q is suddenly being used. I do another calibration and it comes good again.
        >
        > I thought I had sound card issues or G59 hardware issues but then I tried the G59 using HDSDR, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Suddenly I have this fantastic RX performance, no images, no erratic behaviour etc. Is this a common finding, ie moving away from GSDR suddenly fixes all sort of problems?
        >
        > My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an LO output above a RX frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor rations, playing with the FDCO values etc without luck. Looking at the input (pin 3) of the dividers shows the amplified output of the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on 10M it is marginal.
        >
        > All suggestions appreciated.
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Ingmar
        > VK1BGT
        > Canberra, Australia
        >


      • Alan
        ... Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Re: G59 various GSDR issues ... In my experience with various Si570s, including the A grade I have considered they all have a
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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          ----- Original Message -----
          Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Re: G59 various GSDR issues


          >
          > This output drop of the SI570...
          > Will this improve if we put a higher freq. SI on that board?

          In my experience with various Si570s, including the "A" grade I have
          considered they all have a constant output up to their maximum frequency.
          They have to be able to clock logic inputs.
          Measuring this output at high frequencies is not easy.

          73 Alan G4ZFQ
        • Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z
          With a 100mhz scope, you will start to see a voltage drop above about 30mhz +/- Even with good probes. There is a rule of thumb that your scope should be
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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            With a 100mhz scope, you will start to see a voltage drop above about 30mhz +/-
            Even with good probes.
             
            There is a "rule of thumb" that your scope should be rated at 4X the freq you wish to measure.
             
            If you see voltage drop AFTER the divider, this is a divider ( or associated component) problem not Si570 !
             
            The divider isolates the Si570.
             
            Bruce
            kf1z
             
             
            Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:21 PM
            Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: G59 various GSDR issues
             
             



            --- In mailto:GenesisRadio%40yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <g4zfq@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message
            -----
            > Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 various GSDR issues
            >
            >
            > >
            > > My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an
            LO output above a RX
            > > frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor
            rations, playing with the FDCO
            > > values etc without luck. Looking at
            the input (pin 3) of the dividers
            > > shows the amplified output of
            the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on
            > > 10M it is
            marginal.
            > >
            >
            >
            > Ingmar,
            >
            > If you
            are looking on a scope are you sure that the scope/probes are
            > adequate
            for the frequency?
            >
            > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
            >
            Hi Alan,

            Yes, although it's only a 100MHz DSO I'm pretty confident that the drop in performance I am seeing from the SI570 is a true reflection of what is there. I can see the same thing on the div 4 outputs, which are well in spec for this cro.

            You can also hear and see when it stops from the receiver, the RF preamp no longer raises the noise floor.

            Ingmar

          • Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z
            perhaps a mmic amplifier problem... possibly wrong value caps in/out? From: Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:37 AM To:
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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              perhaps a mmic amplifier problem... possibly wrong value caps in/out?
               
               
               
              Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:37 AM
              Subject: Re: [GenesisRadio] Re: G59 various GSDR issues
               
               

              With a 100mhz scope, you will start to see a voltage drop above about 30mhz +/-
              Even with good probes.
               
              There is a "rule of thumb" that your scope should be rated at 4X the freq you wish to measure.
               
              If you see voltage drop AFTER the divider, this is a divider ( or associated component) problem not Si570 !
               
              The divider isolates the Si570.
               
              Bruce
              kf1z
               
               
              Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:21 PM
              Subject: [GenesisRadio] Re: G59 various GSDR issues
               
               



              --- In mailto:GenesisRadio%40yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <g4zfq@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message
              -----
              > Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 various GSDR issues
              >
              >
              > >
              > > My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an
              LO output above a RX
              > > frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor
              rations, playing with the FDCO
              > > values etc without luck. Looking at
              the input (pin 3) of the dividers
              > > shows the amplified output of
              the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on
              > > 10M it is
              marginal.
              > >
              >
              >
              > Ingmar,
              >
              > If you
              are looking on a scope are you sure that the scope/probes are
              > adequate
              for the frequency?
              >
              > 73 Alan G4ZFQ
              >
              Hi Alan,

              Yes, although it's only a 100MHz DSO I'm pretty confident that the drop in performance I am seeing from the SI570 is a true reflection of what is there. I can see the same thing on the div 4 outputs, which are well in spec for this cro.

              You can also hear and see when it stops from the receiver, the RF preamp no longer raises the noise floor.

              Ingmar

            • Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z
              The only time that using another software such as HDSDR, WR+, or winrad would fix all sorts of problems , is if GSDR is not set up correctly on your
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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                The only time that using another software such as HDSDR, WR+, or winrad would " fix all sorts of problems", is if
                GSDR is not set up correctly on your computer, with all the pre-requisite software installed.
                 
                As far as RX image rejection, if you do not use a good STRONG signal, then hit RESET, wait til image is nulled, then click SAVE...
                 
                Then that will bring the result you get...
                 
                The signal you use for rejection calibration must be very strong .. at least 80db above the noise floor, at a bare minimum.
                 
                You may have soundcard or cabling issues as well... but is the same cables and card is used with other software successfully, then
                it would seem those are ok.
                 
                 
                 
                Bruce
                kf1z
                 
                 
                Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:13 AM
                Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 various GSDR issues
                 
                 

                Well I have finished building my G59 MkIII and apart from the usual frustrations about old instructions it went well.

                I have been having a *&@^! of a time with GSDR. I do a receive calibration, it nicely nulls out the image and all looks good and then suddenly it seems to revert almost as if only one channel of I/Q is suddenly being used. I do another calibration and it comes good again.

                I thought I had sound card issues or G59 hardware issues but then I tried the G59 using HDSDR, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Suddenly I have this fantastic RX performance, no images, no erratic behaviour etc. Is this a common finding, ie moving away from GSDR suddenly fixes all sort of problems?

                My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an LO output above a RX frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor rations, playing with the FDCO values etc without luck. Looking at the input (pin 3) of the dividers shows the amplified output of the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on 10M it is marginal.

                All suggestions appreciated.

                Cheers,

                Ingmar
                VK1BGT
                Canberra, Australia






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              • imeins2003
                Hi, Thanks for the suggestions. I m running Win7 64bit Ultimate, I don t know if that is a tested platform for GSDR. All cables and hardware are tested and
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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                  Hi,

                  Thanks for the suggestions.

                  I'm running Win7 64bit Ultimate, I don't know if that is a tested platform for GSDR.

                  All cables and hardware are tested and reliable with other software.

                  I don't have a problem calibrating GSDR (I use the internal calibration signals and I have tried a sig gen), I have a problem with it staying in calibration and not randomly dropping it's bundle without warning. There is also a funny with the software predictably going into a wild band select loop when I select the GEN band selector so I've got some sorting out to do.

                  The system shows no instability with any other software, SDR or otherwise so it seems unique to my install of GSDR.

                  I'll do a fresh install, including checking my version of the .NET framework and see what happens, I also have XP boxes here I can use.

                  The software issues I'm comfortable working through, it is the problem in the area of the SI570 on 6M that I'm more interested in fixing so I'll check that my component values in that area agree with the BOM etc. I double checked the SI570 markings and it's a BBC making it a LVDS, 100ppm, 10-280MHz but I note we don't use the output in LVDS mode but in single ended mode.

                  I'll post again when I find the cause.

                  Cheers,

                  Ingmar

                  --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z" <kf1z@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The only time that using another software such as HDSDR, WR+, or winrad would " fix all sorts of problems", is if
                  > GSDR is not set up correctly on your computer, with all the pre-requisite software installed.
                  >
                  > As far as RX image rejection, if you do not use a good STRONG signal, then hit RESET, wait til image is nulled, then click SAVE...
                  >
                  > Then that will bring the result you get...
                  >
                  > The signal you use for rejection calibration must be very strong .. at least 80db above the noise floor, at a bare minimum.
                  >
                  > You may have soundcard or cabling issues as well... but is the same cables and card is used with other software successfully, then
                  > it would seem those are ok.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bruce
                  > kf1z
                  >
                  >
                  > From: imeins2003
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:13 AM
                  > To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 various GSDR issues
                  >
                  >
                  > Well I have finished building my G59 MkIII and apart from the usual frustrations about old instructions it went well.
                  >
                  > I have been having a *&@^! of a time with GSDR. I do a receive calibration, it nicely nulls out the image and all looks good and then suddenly it seems to revert almost as if only one channel of I/Q is suddenly being used. I do another calibration and it comes good again.
                  >
                  > I thought I had sound card issues or G59 hardware issues but then I tried the G59 using HDSDR, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Suddenly I have this fantastic RX performance, no images, no erratic behaviour etc. Is this a common finding, ie moving away from GSDR suddenly fixes all sort of problems?
                  >
                  > My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an LO output above a RX frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor rations, playing with the FDCO values etc without luck. Looking at the input (pin 3) of the dividers shows the amplified output of the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on 10M it is marginal.
                  >
                  > All suggestions appreciated.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Ingmar
                  > VK1BGT
                  > Canberra, Australia
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > =======
                  > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
                  > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18200)
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                • Joel Black
                  I run Win7 x64. I would dare say that 100% of my GSDR problems are not with the OS, but the operator - that s me. I like to poke around and sometimes I
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 1, 2011
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                    I run Win7 x64. I would dare say that 100% of my GSDR problems are not
                    with the OS, but the operator - that 's me.

                    I like to poke around and sometimes I forget where I poke and the tiger
                    gets me. Luckily, there are a whole lot of folks on this list who help
                    me get out of the tiger's den.

                    GL,
                    Joel - W4JBB

                    On 9/1/2011 7:44 PM, imeins2003 wrote:
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Thanks for the suggestions.
                    >
                    > I'm running Win7 64bit Ultimate, I don't know if that is a tested platform for GSDR.
                    >
                    > All cables and hardware are tested and reliable with other software.
                    >
                    > I don't have a problem calibrating GSDR (I use the internal calibration signals and I have tried a sig gen), I have a problem with it staying in calibration and not randomly dropping it's bundle without warning. There is also a funny with the software predictably going into a wild band select loop when I select the GEN band selector so I've got some sorting out to do.
                    >
                    > The system shows no instability with any other software, SDR or otherwise so it seems unique to my install of GSDR.
                    >
                    > I'll do a fresh install, including checking my version of the .NET framework and see what happens, I also have XP boxes here I can use.
                    >
                    > The software issues I'm comfortable working through, it is the problem in the area of the SI570 on 6M that I'm more interested in fixing so I'll check that my component values in that area agree with the BOM etc. I double checked the SI570 markings and it's a BBC making it a LVDS, 100ppm, 10-280MHz but I note we don't use the output in LVDS mode but in single ended mode.
                    >
                    > I'll post again when I find the cause.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Ingmar
                    >
                    > --- In GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Greenleaf KF1Z"<kf1z@...> wrote:
                    >> The only time that using another software such as HDSDR, WR+, or winrad would " fix all sorts of problems", is if
                    >> GSDR is not set up correctly on your computer, with all the pre-requisite software installed.
                    >>
                    >> As far as RX image rejection, if you do not use a good STRONG signal, then hit RESET, wait til image is nulled, then click SAVE...
                    >>
                    >> Then that will bring the result you get...
                    >>
                    >> The signal you use for rejection calibration must be very strong .. at least 80db above the noise floor, at a bare minimum.
                    >>
                    >> You may have soundcard or cabling issues as well... but is the same cables and card is used with other software successfully, then
                    >> it would seem those are ok.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Bruce
                    >> kf1z
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> From: imeins2003
                    >> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:13 AM
                    >> To: GenesisRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: [GenesisRadio] G59 various GSDR issues
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Well I have finished building my G59 MkIII and apart from the usual frustrations about old instructions it went well.
                    >>
                    >> I have been having a *&@^! of a time with GSDR. I do a receive calibration, it nicely nulls out the image and all looks good and then suddenly it seems to revert almost as if only one channel of I/Q is suddenly being used. I do another calibration and it comes good again.
                    >>
                    >> I thought I had sound card issues or G59 hardware issues but then I tried the G59 using HDSDR, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Suddenly I have this fantastic RX performance, no images, no erratic behaviour etc. Is this a common finding, ie moving away from GSDR suddenly fixes all sort of problems?
                    >>
                    >> My other issue is that my SI570 refuses to produce an LO output above a RX frequency of about 35MHz. I tried divisor rations, playing with the FDCO values etc without luck. Looking at the input (pin 3) of the dividers shows the amplified output of the SI570 getting lower and lower , even on 10M it is marginal.
                    >>
                    >> All suggestions appreciated.
                    >>
                    >> Cheers,
                    >>
                    >> Ingmar
                    >> VK1BGT
                    >> Canberra, Australia
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> =======
                    >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
                    >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18200)
                    >> http://www.pctools.com
                    >> =======
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    --
                    Joel

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                    Those who need it most don't use it."
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