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Ireland's chapter in the story of "black" America

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  • multiracialbookclub
    Via Ireland: a chapter in the story of black America [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [nytimes.com | March 17, 2003] So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 12, 2006
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      Via Ireland: a chapter in the story of "black" America

      [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [nytimes.com | March 17, 2003]

      So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding last
      names — Eddie Murphy, Isaac Hayes, Mariah Carey,
      Dizzy Gillespie, Toni Morrison, H. Carl McCall
      — that you would think that the long story of "blacks"
      and Irish coming together would be well documented.

      You would be wrong.

      Randall Kennedy, a professor at Harvard Law School and the author
      of "Interracial Intimacies; Sex, Marriage, Identity and Adoption,"
      said that when it comes to written historical exploration
      ..."there are little mentions, but not much." ...

      But the Irish names almost certainly do not come from
      Southern slaveholders with names like Scarlett O'Hara.

      Most Irish were too poor to own land.
      And some "blacks", even before the Civil War, were not slaves.

      Tony Burroughs, a fellow of the Utah Genealogical Association
      who teaches genealogy at Chicago State University, said that
      "during the antebellum period, although the majority
      of "blacks" were slaves, ten percent were free."

      Irish immigrants, fleeing the famine in the mid-1800's,
      flocked to port cities like Boston, Philadelphia and New York.

      According to the book "How the Irish Became White," by Noel Ignatiev,
      the unskilled Irish began to learn trades and seek work as
      bakers, blacksmiths, carpenters and bricklayers, putting them
      in competition with the free "blacks" who often held these jobs.

      Irish and "blacks" often lived side by side in the poorest parts of town in those port cities.

      While "blacks" faced racial discrimination from native-born whites,
      the Irish suffered from anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic attitudes.

      Charles L. Blockson, the author of "Black Genealogy,"  said that because of their
      skin differences, both "blacks" and Irish, with features like red hair or freckles,
      were easily picked out by native-born whites and subject to discrimination.

      He said that both groups were without property and, because of this, each group
      built a similar ... culture, commonalities that helped bring them together.

      But Irish immigrants and "blacks" fought over jobs, underbidding one another on wages.

      The tension reached a fever pitch during the Civil War, when poor Irish could
      not buy their way out of military service and resented risking their lives fighting
      for the North for the freedom of "blacks" who were their economic competitors.

      Irishmen who were angry at the government rose up in the draft riots in New York City.
      In the mob violence, captured in Martin Scorsese's film "Gangs of New York," several
      "blacks" were lynched, scores were beaten, and "black" institutions were burned.
      Reports of the death toll ranged from hundreds to more than 2,000.

      But "blacks" and Irish were not always fighting.

      Elizabeth Shown Mills, who recently retired as the editor of the
      National Genealogical Society Quarterly, said that unlike native-born whites,
      "Irish were more willing to accept and acknowledge interracial allegiances."

      Before the Civil War, she said, "the `free mulatto' population
      had the same number of "black" moms as white moms."

      Ms. Mills said that mixed-race children would have been
      given Irish surnames when their Irish fathers married
      their "black" mothers, or when their unmarried
      Irish mothers named children after themselves.

      The Irish ended up in the Caribbean, too.

      Britain sent hundreds of Irish people to penal colonies in the West
      Indies in the mid-1600's, and more went over as indentured servants.

      Mr. Blockson noted that "Lord Oliver Cromwell's boatloads of men and women"
      sent to Barbados and Jamaica intermingled with the African slaves already there.

      Montserrat ended up with the largest Irish community in the West Indies.
      It is still called the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean and has towns
      named St. Patrick's, Galway's, Gerald's, Cork Hill and Kinsale.
      In 1994, Irish Roots Magazine surveyed names in the island's phone book
      and found 91 Ryans, 81 Daleys, 57 Farrells, 42 Rileys and 35 Sweeneys.

      In the post-Civil War United States, already fragile "black"-Irish relations collapsed
      as the Irish began to build the political ties that allowed them to create trade unions.

      Those unions, in turn, began to exclude "blacks" from jobs they had long held.

      This infuriated "blacks" who had supported the Irish, both in America
      and in their fight against the British for independence in Ireland.

      "A great friend of the Irish was Frederick Douglass, constantly talking, lecturing
      about oppression of the Irish by the English," Professor Kennedy said.

      So, do African-Americans raise a glass to the Irish on March 17?

      Mr. McCall said that last year, he chose not to march in the
      St. Patrick's Day Parade ...

      But on St. Patrick's Day, Mr. McCall said,  "I celebrate with a lot of others."
      In fact, he said, he celebrates all ethnic holidays....

      SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/866926/posts

    • multiracialbookclub
      Via Ireland: a chapter in the story of black America [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [nytimes.com | March 17, 2003] So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 14, 2006
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        Via Ireland: a chapter in the story of "black" America

        [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [nytimes.com | March 17, 2003]

        So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding last
        names — Eddie Murphy, Isaac Hayes, Mariah Carey,
        Dizzy Gillespie, Toni Morrison, H. Carl McCall
        — that you would think that the long story of "blacks"
        and Irish coming together would be well documented.

        You would be wrong.

        Randall Kennedy, a professor at Harvard Law School and the author
        of "Interracial Intimacies; Sex, Marriage, Identity and Adoption,"
        said that when it comes to written historical exploration
        ..."there are little mentions, but not much." ...

        But the Irish names almost certainly do not come from
        Southern slaveholders with names like Scarlett O'Hara.

        Most Irish were too poor to own land.
        And some "blacks", even before the Civil War, were not slaves.

        Tony Burroughs, a fellow of the Utah Genealogical Association
        who teaches genealogy at Chicago State University, said that
        "during the antebellum period, although the majority
        of "blacks" were slaves, ten percent were free."

        Irish immigrants, fleeing the famine in the mid-1800's,
        flocked to port cities like Boston, Philadelphia and New York.

        According to the book "How the Irish Became White," by Noel Ignatiev,
        the unskilled Irish began to learn trades and seek work as
        bakers, blacksmiths, carpenters and bricklayers, putting them
        in competition with the free "blacks" who often held these jobs.

        Irish and "blacks" often lived side by side in the poorest parts of town in those port cities.

        While "blacks" faced racial discrimination from native-born whites,
        the Irish suffered from anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic attitudes.

        Charles L. Blockson, the author of "Black Genealogy,"  said that because of their
        skin differences, both "blacks" and Irish, with features like red hair or freckles,
        were easily picked out by native-born whites and subject to discrimination.

        He said that both groups were without property and, because of this, each group
        built a similar ... culture, commonalities that helped bring them together.

        But Irish immigrants and "blacks" fought over jobs, underbidding one another on wages.

        The tension reached a fever pitch during the Civil War, when poor Irish could
        not buy their way out of military service and resented risking their lives fighting
        for the North for the freedom of "blacks" who were their economic competitors.

        Irishmen who were angry at the government rose up in the draft riots in New York City.
        In the mob violence, captured in Martin Scorsese's film "Gangs of New York," several
        "blacks" were lynched, scores were beaten, and "black" institutions were burned.
        Reports of the death toll ranged from hundreds to more than 2,000.

        But "blacks" and Irish were not always fighting.

        Elizabeth Shown Mills, who recently retired as the editor of the
        National Genealogical Society Quarterly, said that unlike native-born whites,
        "Irish were more willing to accept and acknowledge interracial allegiances."

        Before the Civil War, she said, "the `free mulatto' population
        had the same number of "black" moms as white moms."

        Ms. Mills said that mixed-race children would have been
        given Irish surnames when their Irish fathers married
        their "black" mothers, or when their unmarried
        Irish mothers named children after themselves.

        The Irish ended up in the Caribbean, too.

        Britain sent hundreds of Irish people to penal colonies in the West
        Indies in the mid-1600's, and more went over as indentured servants.

        Mr. Blockson noted that "Lord Oliver Cromwell's boatloads of men and women"
        sent to Barbados and Jamaica intermingled with the African slaves already there.

        Montserrat ended up with the largest Irish community in the West Indies.
        It is still called the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean and has towns
        named St. Patrick's, Galway's, Gerald's, Cork Hill and Kinsale.
        In 1994, Irish Roots Magazine surveyed names in the island's phone book
        and found 91 Ryans, 81 Daleys, 57 Farrells, 42 Rileys and 35 Sweeneys.

        In the post-Civil War United States, already fragile "black"-Irish relations collapsed
        as the Irish began to build the political ties that allowed them to create trade unions.

        Those unions, in turn, began to exclude "blacks" from jobs they had long held.

        This infuriated "blacks" who had supported the Irish, both in America
        and in their fight against the British for independence in Ireland.

        "A great friend of the Irish was Frederick Douglass, constantly talking, lecturing
        about oppression of the Irish by the English," Professor Kennedy said.

        So, do African-Americans raise a glass to the Irish on March 17?

        Mr. McCall said that last year, he chose not to march in the
        St. Patrick's Day Parade ...

        But on St. Patrick's Day, Mr. McCall said,  "I celebrate with a lot of others."
        In fact, he said, he celebrates all ethnic holidays....

        SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/866926/posts

      • tlbaker
        Interesting reading while at work taking a little email break, goodness I am on email approximately 22 hours per day between work and home, pretty scary,
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 15, 2006
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          Interesting reading while at work taking a little email break,
          goodness I am on email approximately 22 hours per day
          between work and home, pretty scary, LOLOL!!

          ANYWAY, I an older gentleman telling me stories about when
          the Irish lived in Harlem in the 40's and 50's (I also think
          of the movie 'The Cotton Club' - Dixie Dwyer and the like)
          probably before about when he and his friend's fighting
          w/the Irish on 8th Avenue (Frederick Douglass Boulevard).
          They also lived on B'way in Harlem for many years
          and once the Dominicans moved in circa 1970, then
          came the white flight to the suburbs, I guess.

          I heard that Jamaicans and I guess many West Indian
          people's accents are derived from the Irish living
          and / or owning slaves in the West Indies.
          The accents are rather similar I've noticed
          in my own experience w/both cultures.

           
          Lynne

           
          On 11/15/06, multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@...> wrote:



          Via Ireland
          : a chapter in the story of "black" America


          [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [ nytimes.com | March 17, 2003]


          So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding last
          names — Eddie Murphy, Isaac Hayes, Mariah Carey,
          Dizzy Gillespie, Toni Morrison, H. Carl McCall
          — that you would think that the long story of "blacks"
          and Irish coming together would be well documented.

          You would be wrong.

          Randall Kennedy, a professor at Harvard Law School and the author
          of "Interracial Intimacies; Sex, Marriage, Identity and Adoption,"
          said that when it comes to written historical exploration
          ..."there are little mentions, but not much." ...

          But the Irish names almost certainly do not come from
          Southern slaveholders with names like Scarlett O'Hara.

          Most Irish were too poor to own land.
          And some "blacks", even before the Civil War, were not slaves.

          Tony Burroughs, a fellow of the Utah Genealogical Association
          who teaches genealogy at Chicago State University, said that
          "during the antebellum period, although the majority
          of "blacks" were slaves, ten percent were free."

          Irish immigrants, fleeing the famine in the mid-1800's,
          flocked to port cities like Boston, Philadelphia and New York.

          According to the book "How the Irish Became White," by Noel Ignatiev,
          the unskilled Irish began to learn trades and seek work as
          bakers, blacksmiths, carpenters and bricklayers, putting them
          in competition with the free "blacks" who often held these jobs.

          Irish and "blacks" often lived side by side in the poorest parts of town in those port cities.

          While "blacks" faced racial discrimination from native-born whites,
          the Irish suffered from anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic attitudes.

          Charles L. Blockson, the author of "Black Genealogy,"  said that because of their
          skin differences, both "blacks" and Irish, with features like red hair or freckles,
          were easily picked out by native-born whites and subject to discrimination.

          He said that both groups were without property and, because of this, each group
          built a similar ... culture, commonalities that helped bring them together.

          But Irish immigrants and "blacks" fought over jobs, underbidding one another on wages.

          The tension reached a fever pitch during the Civil War, when poor Irish could
          not buy their way out of military service and resented risking their lives fighting
          for the North for the freedom of "blacks" who were their economic competitors.

          Irishmen who were angry at the government rose up in the draft riots in New York City.
          In the mob violence, captured in Martin Scorsese's film "Gangs of New York," several
          "blacks" were lynched, scores were beaten, and "black" institutions were burned.
          Reports of the death toll ranged from hundreds to more than 2,000.

          But "blacks" and Irish were not always fighting.

          Elizabeth Shown Mills, who recently retired as the editor of the
          National Genealogical Society Quarterly, said that unlike native-born whites,
          "Irish were more willing to accept and acknowledge interracial allegiances."

          Before the Civil War, she said, "the `free mulatto' population
          had the same number of "black" moms as white moms."

          Ms. Mills said that mixed-race children would have been
          given Irish surnames when their Irish fathers married
          their "black" mothers, or when their unmarried
          Irish mothers named children after themselves.

          The Irish ended up in the Caribbean, too.

          Britain sent hundreds of Irish people to penal colonies in the West
          Indies in the mid-1600's, and more went over as indentured servants.

          Mr. Blockson noted that "Lord Oliver Cromwell's boatloads of men and women"
          sent to Barbados and Jamaica intermingled with the African slaves already there.

          Montserrat ended up with the largest Irish community in the West Indies.
          It is still called the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean and has towns
          named St. Patrick's, Galway's, Gerald's, Cork Hill and Kinsale.
          In 1994, Irish Roots Magazine surveyed names in the island's phone book
          and found 91 Ryans, 81 Daleys, 57 Farrells, 42 Rileys and 35 Sweeneys.

          In the post-Civil War United States, already fragile "black"-Irish relations collapsed
          as the Irish began to build the political ties that allowed them to create trade unions.

          Those unions, in turn, began to exclude "blacks" from jobs they had long held.

          This infuriated "blacks" who had supported the Irish, both in America
          and in their fight against the British for independence in Ireland.

          "A great friend of the Irish was Frederick Douglass, constantly talking, lecturing
          about oppression of the Irish by the English," Professor Kennedy said.

          So, do African-Americans raise a glass to the Irish on March 17?

          Mr. McCall said that last year, he chose not to march in the
          St. Patrick's Day Parade ...

          But on St. Patrick's Day, Mr. McCall said,  "I celebrate with a lot of others."
          In fact, he said, he celebrates all ethnic holidays....

          SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/866926/posts


        • barac1998@aol.com
          Wow this is really interesting. I have read something similar about blacks having Welsh names which many are shared with the Irish through those groups
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 16, 2006
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            Wow this is really interesting.
            I have read something similar about "blacks"
            having Welsh names which many are shared with
            the Irish through those groups coming together.

            My first cousins are McCllelands.

            There are so many ways "black" people have
            names and some changing them a few times.

            My last name is Barrett and in the East coast
            and Ireland it would be considered an Irish name.
            In Canada and France it is considered French.
            The Irish actually got it from the French.
            In Louisiana there are records of
            both French and Irish Barretts.

            My family come from an area around Port Barre which
            is named after a slave owner named Charles Barre
            and that family eventually became Barretts.
            I have know idea how my family got the name,
            slaveowner,respected friend, minister or what.

            It is true I know a lot Morris, Daily, Malones.

            My family always thought it was unusual.
            One of my grandfather's brothers was named
            McCall as a first name and Boutte was his last.

            They also tended to pick up the names of the
            area more than taking a slaveowners name as well.
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: soaptalk@...
            To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 9:18 PM
            Subject: Ireland's chapter in the story of "black" America

            Via Ireland: a chapter in the story of "black" America

            [-- by S. Lee Jamison / [nytimes.com | March 17, 2003]
            So many African-Americans have Irish-sounding last
            names "Eddie Murphy, Isaac Hayes, Mariah Carey,
            Dizzy Gillespie, Toni Morrison, H. Carl McCall"
            that you would think that the long story of "blacks"
            and Irish coming together would be well documented.
            You would be wrong.
            Randall Kennedy, a professor at Harvard Law School and the author
            of "Interracial Intimacies; Sex, Marriage, Identity and Adoption,"
            said that when it comes to written historical exploration
            ..."there are little mentions, but not much." ...
            But the Irish names almost certainly do not come from
            Southern slaveholders with names like Scarlett O'Hara.

            Most Irish were too poor to own land.
            And some "blacks", even before the Civil War, were not slaves.
            Tony Burroughs, a fellow of the Utah Genealogical Association
            who teaches genealogy at Chicago State University, said that
            "during the antebellum period, although the majority
            of "blacks" were slaves, ten percent were free."
            Irish immigrants, fleeing the famine in the mid-1800's,
            flocked to port cities like Boston, Philadelphia and New York.
            According to the book "How the Irish Became White," by Noel Ignatiev,
            the unskilled Irish began to learn trades and seek work as
            bakers, blacksmiths, carpenters and bricklayers, putting them
            in competition with the free "blacks" who often held these jobs.
            Irish and "blacks" often lived side by side in the poorest parts of town in those port cities.
            While "blacks" faced racial discrimination from native-born whites,
            the Irish suffered from anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic attitudes.

            Charles L. Blockson, the author of "Black Genealogy,"  said that because of their
            skin differences, both "blacks" and Irish, with features like red hair or freckles,
            were easily picked out by native-born whites and subject to discrimination.
            He said that both groups were without property and, because of this, each group
            built a similar ... culture, commonalities that helped bring them together.
            But Irish immigrants and "blacks" fought over jobs, underbidding one another on wages.
            The tension reached a fever pitch during the Civil War, when poor Irish could
            not buy their way out of military service and resented risking their lives fighting
            for the North for the freedom of "blacks" who were their economic competitors.
            Irishmen who were angry at the government rose up in the draft riots in New York City.
            In the mob violence, captured in Martin Scorsese's film "Gangs of New York," several
            "blacks" were lynched, scores were beaten, and "black" institutions were burned.
            Reports of the death toll ranged from hundreds to more than 2,000.
            But "blacks" and Irish were not always fighting.
            Elizabeth Shown Mills, who recently retired as the editor of the
            National Genealogical Society Quarterly, said that unlike native-born whites,
            "Irish were more willing to accept and acknowledge interracial allegiances. "
            Before the Civil War, she said, "the `free mulatto' population
            had the same number of "black" moms as white moms."
            Ms. Mills said that mixed-race children would have been
            given Irish surnames when their Irish fathers married
            their "black" mothers, or when their unmarried
            Irish mothers named children after themselves.
            The Irish ended up in the Caribbean, too.
            Britain sent hundreds of Irish people to penal colonies in the West
            Indies in the mid-1600's, and more went over as indentured servants.
            Mr. Blockson noted that "Lord Oliver Cromwell's boatloads of men and women"
            sent to Barbados and Jamaica intermingled with the African slaves already there.
            Montserrat ended up with the largest Irish community in the West Indies.
            It is still called the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean and has towns
            named St. Patrick's, Galway's, Gerald's, Cork Hill and Kinsale.
            In 1994, Irish Roots Magazine surveyed names in the island's phone book
            and found 91 Ryans, 81 Daleys, 57 Farrells, 42 Rileys and 35 Sweeneys.
            In the post-Civil War United States, already fragile "black"-Irish relations collapsed
            as the Irish began to build the political ties that allowed them to create trade unions.
            Those unions, in turn, began to exclude "blacks" from jobs they had long held.
            This infuriated "blacks" who had supported the Irish, both in America
            and in their fight against the British for independence in Ireland.
            "A great friend of the Irish was Frederick Douglass, constantly talking, lecturing
            about oppression of the Irish by the English," Professor Kennedy said.
            So, do African-Americans raise a glass to the Irish on March 17?
            Mr. McCall said that last year, he chose not to march in the
            St. Patrick's Day Parade ...

            But on St. Patrick's Day, Mr. McCall said,  "I celebrate with a lot of others."
            In fact, he said, he celebrates all ethnic holidays....

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