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Re: Obama and Loving Day

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  • Rosanna
    I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
      I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON'T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person like myself. Perhaps neither you nor I have the option of defining as either White or Black b/c of our looks, but there are other mixed people who do look White or Black and could easily pass for monoracial if they wanted to. I find it somewhat problematic when mixed persons who look monoracial (whether White or Black), choose to identify simply w/how they look and how others perceive them, as in the case of Obama who identifies as Black b/c that's how he looks and is perceived.
      A person's heritage doesn't always come out in their skin color, hair texture, etc., but that doesn't negate their background. I just wish more mixed people would start to fully embrace the diversity of their heritage.



      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "john.cashin" <fastercash@...> wrote:


      You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries <chuckle> I'm with you
      and it is good that he kind of said it, it's just the way he said it
      that wasn't good, it is funny what you mentioned because I too have
      been mistaken for nationalities like Arab, Eygptian and Asian etc,
      and although there is nothing wrong with any of these nationalities
      and some of them are Mixed too I have got nothing whatsoever to do
      with any of them either, apart from being Mixed as aformentioned, but that's not the same as being Arab, Middle Eastern etc, they are
      cultural groups in their own right, it is not my identity, I can't be Black either, because my father would never have been mistaken for all these different other groups like I am and all of us who are
      Mixed, he was Black, that's all he was ever seen as, nothing wrong
      with being Black either but how can I possibly call myself Black like he was if that isn't what all people see when looking at me??.

      And of course I'm not White either because again I would not be
      mistaken for all these different things if I was White like my
      mother was, so I am different from both of the races they were in
      life, same with Obama and all of us really, not everyone sees him as
      black though anyway, there is divided opinion, so therefore he can't
      be Black, if he was there would be no question, he is Bi-Racial, like us, that is his real identity, as I say, good that he acknowledged it but I'm not so keen on him using "mutt" when he does bring it up, it's up to him, he is free to call himself what he wants and make jokes about himself if he wants but it doesn't sound right to me when he does, after all he is a highly intelligent Bi-Racial man who is the leader of the most powerful country in the world, he is worth so much more than that.



      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "Rosanna" <rosanna_armendariz@> wrote:


      I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
      that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times,
      I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
      As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
      Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
      as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
      gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
      people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no
      middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c
      that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have
      no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make
      others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's
      what I am.



      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "john.cashin" <fastercash@> wrote:


      I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
      if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
      I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
      have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
      as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
      have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
      so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
      just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
      he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
      and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
      he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
      bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
      totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
      some have about us but careless comments like that will
      only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


      [quote]
      Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
      milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
      However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
      his presidency will improve race relations or
      elevate the discussion of race in this country.
      Americans are just too steeped in
      ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
      For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
      to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
      The story was all over CNN.
      Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
      of race and seem incapable of having any sort
      of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
      But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
      [/quote]
    • Your Highness The Queen
      Re: Obama jokingly referred to himself as a mutt, and half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN. I ve been reading all of the comments on
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
        Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
        half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


        I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

        BePeace
      • maxisterl@yahoo.com
        Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age. I feel it is an antiquated term like negro but this is just my opinion
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
          Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
          (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
          I feel it is an antiquated term like
          negro but this is just my opinion ...

          M


          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




          -----Original Message-----




          From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...>

          Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
          To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day


          Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
          half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

          I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

          BePeace

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Rosanna
          When I said half of America was shocked, I didn t mean that they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term. Rather, it seems to me people were shocked
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
            When I said half of America was shocked, I didn't mean that
            they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term.
            Rather, it seems to me people were shocked that Obama actually
            joked about being mixed. Most people seem to view him as "black,"
            although most are aware that his mother was White. I think if he'd
            used another term instead of mutt, the story still would've been
            all over CNN b/c people are just amazed that this "black" man is
            actually mixed. Honestly, I've wondered for a long time if he
            had a more racially ambiguous appearance, would the media still
            refer to him as "black" or "African-American??" Probably not,
            since we are so obsessed w/appearance in this society.


            In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
            "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...> wrote:


            Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
            half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


            I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess
            am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to
            be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

            BePeace
          • Denise Baker
            Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
              Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in a very cavalier manner, but many are microscopically scrutinized, esp Barack’s words, as he is the leader of the new world now & represents this position as a biracial being...With that said, think of a name that you would not want to be called and substitute it for ‘mutt’ - see if your response is the same...Name calling is just wrong & it hurts – its also an indication of a deeper issue...remember ‘hurt people, hurt people’...
              Take care,
              Denise
              PS, M “negro’ is not an antiquated term & if that term were substituted for ‘mutt’, there would have been more than just a multiracial social group chattin about it...  


              On 1/11/09 11:06 PM, "maxisterl@..." <maxisterl@...> wrote:


               

              Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
              (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
              I feel it is an antiquated term like
              negro but this is just my opinion ...

              M

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

              -----Original Message-----

              From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@... <mailto:la_cayena%40yahoo.com> >

              Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
              To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> >
              Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day

              Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
              half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

              I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog.  However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

              BePeace

              ------------------------------------

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