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Re: Obama and Loving Day

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  • john.cashin
    You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries I m with you and it is good that he kind of said it, it s just the way he said it that wasn t good, it is
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
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      You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries <chuckle> I'm with you and it is good that he kind of said it, it's just the way he said it that wasn't good, it is funny what you mentioned because I too have been mistaken for nationalities like Arab, Eygptian and Asian etc, and although there is nothing wrong with any of these nationalities and some of them are Mixed too I have got nothing whatsoever to do with any of them either, apart from being Mixed as aformentioned, but that's not the same as being Arab, Middle Eastern etc, they are cultural groups in their own right, it is not my identity, I can't be Black either, because my father would never have been mistaken for all these different other groups like I am and all of us who are Mixed, he was Black, that's all he was ever seen as, nothing wrong with being Black either but how can I possibly call myself Black like he was if that isn't what all people see when looking at me??.

      And of course I'm not White either because again I would not be
      mistaken for all these different things if I was White like my mother was, so I am different from both of the races they were in life, same with Obama and all of us really, not everyone sees him as black though anyway, there is divided opinion, so therefore he can't be Black, if he was there would be no question, he is Bi-Racial, like us, that is his real identity, as I say, good that he acknowledged it but I'm not so keen on him using "mutt" when he does bring it up, it's up to him, he is free to call himself what he wants and make jokes about himself if he wants but it doesn't sound right to me when he does, after all he is a highly intelligent Bi-Racial man who is the leader of the most powerful country in the world, he is worth so much more than that.



      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "Rosanna" <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:



      I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
      that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
      As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
      Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
      as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
      gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
      people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.



      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "john.cashin" <fastercash@> wrote:



      I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
      if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
      I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
      have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
      as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
      have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
      so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
      just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
      he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
      and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
      he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
      bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
      totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
      some have about us but careless comments like that will
      only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


      [quote]
      Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
      milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
      However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
      his presidency will improve race relations or
      elevate the discussion of race in this country.
      Americans are just too steeped in
      ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
      For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
      to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
      The story was all over CNN.
      Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
      of race and seem incapable of having any sort
      of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
      But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
      [/quote]
    • Rosanna
      Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he chose. And I d have to
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
        being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
        chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
        I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
        growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
        grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
        to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
        time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
        the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.


        --- In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
        pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


        Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
        to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
        the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
        leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
        him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
        or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
        digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
        children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
        as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
        a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
        great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
        and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
        Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
        ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
        For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
        feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
        and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
        for it all sends the same message. Period.
         
        Pierre


        --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:


        From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
        Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
        To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM



        I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
        that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
        As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
        Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
        as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
        gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
        people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.


        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
        "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:


        I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
        if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
        I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
        have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
        as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
        have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
        so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
        just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
        he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
        and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
        he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
        bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
        totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
        some have about us but careless comments like that will
        only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


        [quote]
        Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
        milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
        However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
        his presidency will improve race relations or
        elevate the discussion of race in this country.
        Americans are just too steeped in
        ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
        For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
        to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
        The story was all over CNN.
        Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
        of race and seem incapable of having any sort
        of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
        But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
        [/quote]
      • pierre jefferson
        Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can fully see your assessment of this word mutt
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
          concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
          fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
          Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
          black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
          gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
          growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
          on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
           
          Pierre

          --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

          From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
          Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
          To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

          Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
          being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
          chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
          I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
          growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
          grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
          to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
          time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
          the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

          --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
          pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

          Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
          to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
          the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
          leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
          him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
          or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
          digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
          children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
          as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
          a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
          great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
          and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
          Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
          ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
          For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
          feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
          and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
          for it all sends the same message. Period.
           
          Pierre

          --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


          From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
          Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
          To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

          I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
          As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
          Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

          In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
          "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

          I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
          if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
          I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
          have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
          as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
          have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
          so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
          just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
          he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
          and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
          he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
          bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
          totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
          some have about us but careless comments like that will
          only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

          [quote]
          Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
          milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
          However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
          his presidency will improve race relations or
          elevate the discussion of race in this country.
          Americans are just too steeped in
          ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
          For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
          to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
          The story was all over CNN.
          Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
          of race and seem incapable of having any sort
          of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
          But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
          [/quote]

        • Denise Baker
          I think that says it all...Thx Pierre On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, pierre jefferson
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day I think that says it all...Thx Pierre


            On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, "pierre jefferson" <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


             

            Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
            concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
            fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
            Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
            black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
            gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
            growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
            on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
             
            Pierre

            --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

            From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
            Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
            To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

            Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
            being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
            chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
            I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
            growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
            grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
            to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
            time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
            the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

            --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01gmail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> ,
            pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

            Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
            to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
            the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
            leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
            him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
            or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
            digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
            children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
            as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
            a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
            great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
            and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
            Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
            ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
            For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
            feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
            and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
            for it all sends the same message. Period.
             
            Pierre

            --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


            From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
            Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
            To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

            I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
            As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
            Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

            I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
            if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
            I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
            have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
            as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
            have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
            so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
            just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
            he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
            and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
            he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
            bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
            totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
            some have about us but careless comments like that will
            only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

            [quote]
            Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
            milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
            However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
            his presidency will improve race relations or
            elevate the discussion of race in this country.
            Americans are just too steeped in
            ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
            For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
            to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
            The story was all over CNN.
            Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
            of race and seem incapable of having any sort
            of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
            But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
            [/quote]

             
             
                

          • maxisterl@yahoo.com
            I think he was just making a joke!! Lots of ppl say that abt themselves... Shdnt take too much to heart Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From:
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day I think he was just making a joke!! Lots of ppl say that abt themselves...

              Shdnt take too much to heart

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


              From: Denise Baker
              Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:12:04 -0500
              To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day

              I think that says it all...Thx Pierre


              On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, "pierre jefferson" <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


               

              Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
              concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
              fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
              Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
              black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
              gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
              growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
              on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
               
              Pierre

              --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

              From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
              Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
              To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

              Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
              being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
              chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
              I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
              growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
              grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
              to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
              time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
              the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

              --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01gmail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

              Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
              to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
              the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
              leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
              him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
              or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
              digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
              children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
              as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
              a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
              great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
              and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
              Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
              ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
              For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
              feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
              and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
              for it all sends the same message. Period.
               
              Pierre

              --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


              From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
              Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
              To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

              I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
              As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
              Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
              "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

              I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
              if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
              I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
              have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
              as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
              have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
              so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
              just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
              he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
              and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
              he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
              bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
              totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
              some have about us but careless comments like that will
              only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

              [quote]
              Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
              milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
              However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
              his presidency will improve race relations or
              elevate the discussion of race in this country.
              Americans are just too steeped in
              ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
              For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
              to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
              The story was all over CNN.
              Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
              of race and seem incapable of having any sort
              of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
              But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
              [/quote]

               
               
                  

            • Rosanna
              I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON'T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person like myself. Perhaps neither you nor I have the option of defining as either White or Black b/c of our looks, but there are other mixed people who do look White or Black and could easily pass for monoracial if they wanted to. I find it somewhat problematic when mixed persons who look monoracial (whether White or Black), choose to identify simply w/how they look and how others perceive them, as in the case of Obama who identifies as Black b/c that's how he looks and is perceived.
                A person's heritage doesn't always come out in their skin color, hair texture, etc., but that doesn't negate their background. I just wish more mixed people would start to fully embrace the diversity of their heritage.



                In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                "john.cashin" <fastercash@...> wrote:


                You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries <chuckle> I'm with you
                and it is good that he kind of said it, it's just the way he said it
                that wasn't good, it is funny what you mentioned because I too have
                been mistaken for nationalities like Arab, Eygptian and Asian etc,
                and although there is nothing wrong with any of these nationalities
                and some of them are Mixed too I have got nothing whatsoever to do
                with any of them either, apart from being Mixed as aformentioned, but that's not the same as being Arab, Middle Eastern etc, they are
                cultural groups in their own right, it is not my identity, I can't be Black either, because my father would never have been mistaken for all these different other groups like I am and all of us who are
                Mixed, he was Black, that's all he was ever seen as, nothing wrong
                with being Black either but how can I possibly call myself Black like he was if that isn't what all people see when looking at me??.

                And of course I'm not White either because again I would not be
                mistaken for all these different things if I was White like my
                mother was, so I am different from both of the races they were in
                life, same with Obama and all of us really, not everyone sees him as
                black though anyway, there is divided opinion, so therefore he can't
                be Black, if he was there would be no question, he is Bi-Racial, like us, that is his real identity, as I say, good that he acknowledged it but I'm not so keen on him using "mutt" when he does bring it up, it's up to him, he is free to call himself what he wants and make jokes about himself if he wants but it doesn't sound right to me when he does, after all he is a highly intelligent Bi-Racial man who is the leader of the most powerful country in the world, he is worth so much more than that.



                In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                "Rosanna" <rosanna_armendariz@> wrote:


                I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
                that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times,
                I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
                as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
                gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
                people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no
                middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c
                that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have
                no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make
                others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's
                what I am.



                In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                "john.cashin" <fastercash@> wrote:


                I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                some have about us but careless comments like that will
                only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


                [quote]
                Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                his presidency will improve race relations or
                elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                Americans are just too steeped in
                ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                The story was all over CNN.
                Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                [/quote]
              • Your Highness The Queen
                Re: Obama jokingly referred to himself as a mutt, and half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN. I ve been reading all of the comments on
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
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                  Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                  half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


                  I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                  BePeace
                • maxisterl@yahoo.com
                  Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age. I feel it is an antiquated term like negro but this is just my opinion
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
                    (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
                    I feel it is an antiquated term like
                    negro but this is just my opinion ...

                    M


                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                    -----Original Message-----




                    From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...>

                    Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
                    To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day


                    Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                    half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

                    I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                    BePeace

                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Rosanna
                    When I said half of America was shocked, I didn t mean that they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term. Rather, it seems to me people were shocked
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      When I said half of America was shocked, I didn't mean that
                      they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term.
                      Rather, it seems to me people were shocked that Obama actually
                      joked about being mixed. Most people seem to view him as "black,"
                      although most are aware that his mother was White. I think if he'd
                      used another term instead of mutt, the story still would've been
                      all over CNN b/c people are just amazed that this "black" man is
                      actually mixed. Honestly, I've wondered for a long time if he
                      had a more racially ambiguous appearance, would the media still
                      refer to him as "black" or "African-American??" Probably not,
                      since we are so obsessed w/appearance in this society.


                      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                      "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...> wrote:


                      Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                      half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


                      I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess
                      am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to
                      be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                      BePeace
                    • Denise Baker
                      Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in a very cavalier manner, but many are microscopically scrutinized, esp Barack’s words, as he is the leader of the new world now & represents this position as a biracial being...With that said, think of a name that you would not want to be called and substitute it for ‘mutt’ - see if your response is the same...Name calling is just wrong & it hurts – its also an indication of a deeper issue...remember ‘hurt people, hurt people’...
                        Take care,
                        Denise
                        PS, M “negro’ is not an antiquated term & if that term were substituted for ‘mutt’, there would have been more than just a multiracial social group chattin about it...  


                        On 1/11/09 11:06 PM, "maxisterl@..." <maxisterl@...> wrote:


                         

                        Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
                        (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
                        I feel it is an antiquated term like
                        negro but this is just my opinion ...

                        M

                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        -----Original Message-----

                        From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@... <mailto:la_cayena%40yahoo.com> >

                        Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
                        To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> >
                        Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day

                        Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                        half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

                        I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog.  However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                        BePeace

                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                         
                            

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