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Re: Obama and Loving Day

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  • john.cashin
    I wasn t keen on his mutt joke either, the reason being is because if we as bi-racial people can t respect ourselves then nobody will, I don t mean that we
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 9, 2009
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      I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
      if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
      I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
      have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
      as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
      have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
      so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
      just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
      he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
      and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
      he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is bi-racial,
      he is in a good position to finally and totally disprove all these
      false negative ideas that some have about us but careless comments
      like that will only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


      [quote]
      Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
      milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
      However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
      his presidency will improve race relations or
      elevate the discussion of race in this country.
      Americans are just too steeped in
      ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
      For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
      to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
      The story was all over CNN.
      Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
      of race and seem incapable of having any sort
      of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
      But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
      [/quote]
    • pierre jefferson
      I agree with you John,   Race is till such a emotional issue in America, because it still holds so much pain and emotional anger. Obama seems to feel
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 9, 2009
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        I agree with you John,
         
        Race is till such a emotional issue in America, because
        it still holds so much pain and emotional anger. Obama
        seems to feel unamused with mixed race issues, and seems
        to see his own mixture as being a biological accident. Calling
        him self a mutt is equal to being compared to k-9 mongrel
        Even Obama has been deeply affected by being multiracial,
        his life has all the emotional experiences most mixed race
        people go through on a daily basis. Racists and racism will
        not except Obama because of his heritage. Yes the ignorance
        that fuels racism is still with us in 2009): still seeing the color
        before seeing the individual. Still looking for fault and error
        other than achievement and promise. Obama has,nt even
        been inaugurated yet and yet the die hards are already
        holding polls on if he will harm this Nation. He will have to
        be twice as careful on every move he makes simply because
        he is viewed as black. For every wrong move he may make,
        he will be judged twice as harshly! and for every right move
        he may only receive 1/2 the reward. Yes race is still the back bone
        of this country, the foundation of its birth and creator of its Soul.
        When you carry the seeds
         
         
        Pierre


        --- On Fri, 1/9/09, john.cashin <fastercash@...> wrote:

        From: john.cashin <fastercash@...>
        Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
        To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 6:48 PM

        I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
        if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
        I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
        have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
        as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
        have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
        so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
        just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
        he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
        and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
        he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is bi-racial,
        he is in a good position to finally and totally disprove all these
        false negative ideas that some have about us but careless comments
        like that will only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

        [quote]
        Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
        milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
        However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
        his presidency will improve race relations or
        elevate the discussion of race in this country.
        Americans are just too steeped in
        ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
        For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
        to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
        The story was all over CNN.
        Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
        of race and seem incapable of having any sort
        of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
        But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
        [/quote]

      • Rosanna
        I guess I wasn t clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the mutt comment. It was one of the few times, I ve heard him acknowledge
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
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          I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
          As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic. Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.


          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
          "john.cashin" <fastercash@...> wrote:


          I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
          if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
          I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
          have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
          as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
          have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
          so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
          just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
          he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
          and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
          he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
          bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
          totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
          some have about us but careless comments like that will
          only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


          [quote]
          Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
          milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
          However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
          his presidency will improve race relations or
          elevate the discussion of race in this country.
          Americans are just too steeped in
          ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
          For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
          to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
          The story was all over CNN.
          Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
          of race and seem incapable of having any sort
          of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
          But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
          [/quote]
        • pierre jefferson
          Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as the word Mulatto as we all know
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
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            Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
            to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
            the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
            leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
            him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
            or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
            digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
            children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
            as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
            a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
            great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
            and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
            Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
            ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
            For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
            feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
            and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
            for it all sends the same message. Period.
             
            Pierre

            --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

            From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
            Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
            To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

            I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
            As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic. Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

            I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
            if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
            I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
            have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
            as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
            have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
            so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
            just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
            he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
            and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
            he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
            bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
            totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
            some have about us but careless comments like that will
            only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


            [quote]
            Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
            milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
            However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
            his presidency will improve race relations or
            elevate the discussion of race in this country.
            Americans are just too steeped in
            ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
            For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
            to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
            The story was all over CNN.
            Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
            of race and seem incapable of having any sort
            of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
            But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
            [/quote]

          • john.cashin
            You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries I m with you and it is good that he kind of said it, it s just the way he said it that wasn t good, it is
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
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              You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries <chuckle> I'm with you and it is good that he kind of said it, it's just the way he said it that wasn't good, it is funny what you mentioned because I too have been mistaken for nationalities like Arab, Eygptian and Asian etc, and although there is nothing wrong with any of these nationalities and some of them are Mixed too I have got nothing whatsoever to do with any of them either, apart from being Mixed as aformentioned, but that's not the same as being Arab, Middle Eastern etc, they are cultural groups in their own right, it is not my identity, I can't be Black either, because my father would never have been mistaken for all these different other groups like I am and all of us who are Mixed, he was Black, that's all he was ever seen as, nothing wrong with being Black either but how can I possibly call myself Black like he was if that isn't what all people see when looking at me??.

              And of course I'm not White either because again I would not be
              mistaken for all these different things if I was White like my mother was, so I am different from both of the races they were in life, same with Obama and all of us really, not everyone sees him as black though anyway, there is divided opinion, so therefore he can't be Black, if he was there would be no question, he is Bi-Racial, like us, that is his real identity, as I say, good that he acknowledged it but I'm not so keen on him using "mutt" when he does bring it up, it's up to him, he is free to call himself what he wants and make jokes about himself if he wants but it doesn't sound right to me when he does, after all he is a highly intelligent Bi-Racial man who is the leader of the most powerful country in the world, he is worth so much more than that.



              In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
              "Rosanna" <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:



              I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
              that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
              As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
              Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
              as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
              gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
              people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.



              In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
              "john.cashin" <fastercash@> wrote:



              I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
              if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
              I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
              have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
              as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
              have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
              so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
              just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
              he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
              and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
              he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
              bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
              totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
              some have about us but careless comments like that will
              only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


              [quote]
              Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
              milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
              However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
              his presidency will improve race relations or
              elevate the discussion of race in this country.
              Americans are just too steeped in
              ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
              For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
              to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
              The story was all over CNN.
              Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
              of race and seem incapable of having any sort
              of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
              But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
              [/quote]
            • Rosanna
              Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he chose. And I d have to
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
                being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
                chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
                I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
                growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
                grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
                to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
                time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
                the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.


                --- In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


                Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
                to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
                the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
                leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
                him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
                or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
                digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
                children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
                as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
                a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
                great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
                and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
                Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
                ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
                For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
                feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
                and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
                for it all sends the same message. Period.
                 
                Pierre


                --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:


                From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
                Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM



                I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
                that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
                as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
                gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
                people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.


                In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:


                I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                some have about us but careless comments like that will
                only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


                [quote]
                Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                his presidency will improve race relations or
                elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                Americans are just too steeped in
                ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                The story was all over CNN.
                Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                [/quote]
              • pierre jefferson
                Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can fully see your assessment of this word mutt
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 10, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
                  concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
                  fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
                  Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
                  black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
                  gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
                  growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
                  on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
                   
                  Pierre

                  --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

                  From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
                  Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                  To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

                  Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
                  being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
                  chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
                  I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
                  growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
                  grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
                  to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
                  time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
                  the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

                  --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

                  Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
                  to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
                  the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
                  leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
                  him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
                  or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
                  digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
                  children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
                  as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
                  a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
                  great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
                  and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
                  Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
                  ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
                  For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
                  feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
                  and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
                  for it all sends the same message. Period.
                   
                  Pierre

                  --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


                  From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
                  Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                  To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

                  I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                  As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                  Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

                  I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                  if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                  I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                  have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                  as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                  have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                  so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                  just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                  he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                  and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                  he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                  bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                  totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                  some have about us but careless comments like that will
                  only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

                  [quote]
                  Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                  milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                  However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                  his presidency will improve race relations or
                  elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                  Americans are just too steeped in
                  ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                  For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                  to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                  The story was all over CNN.
                  Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                  of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                  of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                  But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                  [/quote]

                • Denise Baker
                  I think that says it all...Thx Pierre On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, pierre jefferson
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day I think that says it all...Thx Pierre


                    On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, "pierre jefferson" <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


                     

                    Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
                    concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
                    fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
                    Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
                    black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
                    gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
                    growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
                    on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
                     
                    Pierre

                    --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

                    From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
                    Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                    To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

                    Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
                    being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
                    chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
                    I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
                    growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
                    grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
                    to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
                    time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
                    the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

                    --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01gmail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

                    Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
                    to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
                    the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
                    leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
                    him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
                    or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
                    digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
                    children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
                    as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
                    a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
                    great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
                    and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
                    Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
                    ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
                    For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
                    feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
                    and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
                    for it all sends the same message. Period.
                     
                    Pierre

                    --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


                    From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
                    Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                    To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

                    I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                    As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                    Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                    "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

                    I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                    if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                    I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                    have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                    as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                    have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                    so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                    just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                    he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                    and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                    he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                    bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                    totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                    some have about us but careless comments like that will
                    only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

                    [quote]
                    Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                    milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                    However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                    his presidency will improve race relations or
                    elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                    Americans are just too steeped in
                    ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                    For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                    to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                    The story was all over CNN.
                    Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                    of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                    of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                    But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                    [/quote]

                     
                     
                        

                  • maxisterl@yahoo.com
                    I think he was just making a joke!! Lots of ppl say that abt themselves... Shdnt take too much to heart Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From:
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day I think he was just making a joke!! Lots of ppl say that abt themselves...

                      Shdnt take too much to heart

                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


                      From: Denise Baker
                      Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:12:04 -0500
                      To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day

                      I think that says it all...Thx Pierre


                      On 1/11/09 2:11 AM, "pierre jefferson" <pierrejefferson2007@...> wrote:


                       

                      Hi. Rosanna, I meant no hostility against you in my rant
                      concerning Obama,s usage of the word mutt. Yes I can
                      fully see your assessment of this word mutt spoken by
                      Obama. Then again he does have issues regarding his
                      black father and white mother.Torn between such a culture
                      gap it wasn't easy for him, or any other mixed race person
                      growing up in society. Hopefully he will heal as time rolls
                      on and let this strengthen his Presidency.
                       
                      Pierre

                      --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

                      From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz@...>
                      Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                      To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

                      Hi, Pierre. Like I said, I was glad that he actually acknowledged
                      being mixed, since it happens so seldom, regardless of the word he
                      chose. And I'd have to agree that he has issues with being mixed.
                      I've read his memoirs, and he seems to have a lot of issues w/his
                      growing up years, an absentee Black father, raised by White
                      grandparents, etc. He talks about becoming a young man and wanting
                      to claim his "Blackness," if you will. I think he's spent a lot of
                      time trying to become an "authentic" Black man. So, really, I think
                      the use of the word "mutt" is the least of his problems.

                      --- In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01gmail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      pierre jefferson <pierrejefferson200 7@...> wrote:

                      Rosanna I have to disagree regarding Obamas remark referring
                      to him self as a Mutt. This falls into the same perception as
                      the word Mulatto as we all know means a mule. How can a
                      leader seek respect by even jokingly denigrate and demean
                      him self for a good laugh? its like calling him self a mistake
                      or a pile of mud. Yes the whole world is watching and carefully
                      digesting every thing he says. Imagine the young racially mixed
                      children hearing their commander and chief defining him self
                      as a Mutt! this can be deeply internalized by them and send
                      a green light that calling each other mutts is OK. Humor is
                      great): but when you jokingly or even jest with your dignity
                      and humanity just for a laugh is not a wise thing to do.
                      Obama seems to have issues about his mixed race back
                      ground? hopefully he stops these attacks on his own character.
                      For to say mixed race people are nothing more than Mutts,
                      feeds into the widely believed perception of them by bigoted
                      and prejudice minds.He might as well call him self a half breed
                      for it all sends the same message. Period.
                       
                      Pierre

                      --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...> wrote:


                      From: Rosanna <rosanna_armendariz @...>
                      Subject: [Generation- Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day
                      To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com <http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

                      I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times, I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                      As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                      Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's what I am.

                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                      "john.cashin" <fastercash@ ...> wrote:

                      I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                      if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                      I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                      have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                      as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                      have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                      so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                      just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                      he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                      and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                      he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                      bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                      totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                      some have about us but careless comments like that will
                      only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.

                      [quote]
                      Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                      milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                      However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                      his presidency will improve race relations or
                      elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                      Americans are just too steeped in
                      ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                      For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                      to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                      The story was all over CNN.
                      Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                      of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                      of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                      But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                      [/quote]

                       
                       
                          

                    • Rosanna
                      I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I hear you, John. But my point is that as mixed people we DON'T have to identify with the way we look. I gather you are a racially ambiguous looking person like myself. Perhaps neither you nor I have the option of defining as either White or Black b/c of our looks, but there are other mixed people who do look White or Black and could easily pass for monoracial if they wanted to. I find it somewhat problematic when mixed persons who look monoracial (whether White or Black), choose to identify simply w/how they look and how others perceive them, as in the case of Obama who identifies as Black b/c that's how he looks and is perceived.
                        A person's heritage doesn't always come out in their skin color, hair texture, etc., but that doesn't negate their background. I just wish more mixed people would start to fully embrace the diversity of their heritage.



                        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                        "john.cashin" <fastercash@...> wrote:


                        You ARE perfectly clear Rosanna no worries <chuckle> I'm with you
                        and it is good that he kind of said it, it's just the way he said it
                        that wasn't good, it is funny what you mentioned because I too have
                        been mistaken for nationalities like Arab, Eygptian and Asian etc,
                        and although there is nothing wrong with any of these nationalities
                        and some of them are Mixed too I have got nothing whatsoever to do
                        with any of them either, apart from being Mixed as aformentioned, but that's not the same as being Arab, Middle Eastern etc, they are
                        cultural groups in their own right, it is not my identity, I can't be Black either, because my father would never have been mistaken for all these different other groups like I am and all of us who are
                        Mixed, he was Black, that's all he was ever seen as, nothing wrong
                        with being Black either but how can I possibly call myself Black like he was if that isn't what all people see when looking at me??.

                        And of course I'm not White either because again I would not be
                        mistaken for all these different things if I was White like my
                        mother was, so I am different from both of the races they were in
                        life, same with Obama and all of us really, not everyone sees him as
                        black though anyway, there is divided opinion, so therefore he can't
                        be Black, if he was there would be no question, he is Bi-Racial, like us, that is his real identity, as I say, good that he acknowledged it but I'm not so keen on him using "mutt" when he does bring it up, it's up to him, he is free to call himself what he wants and make jokes about himself if he wants but it doesn't sound right to me when he does, after all he is a highly intelligent Bi-Racial man who is the leader of the most powerful country in the world, he is worth so much more than that.



                        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                        "Rosanna" <rosanna_armendariz@> wrote:


                        I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was actually grateful
                        that Obama made the "mutt" comment. It was one of the few times,
                        I've heard him acknowledge being mixed. I'm not saying he's trying to hide the fact; it is public knowledge. However, he has stated that he identifies as African-American, and he is almost always referred to as "black" or African-American in the media.
                        As a Mixed person, I've always found this somewhat problematic.
                        Obama says he identifies as black b/c that's how he's perceived, but
                        as a Mixed person I disagree that we need to identify in a way that
                        gels w/how others perceive us. In my own case for instance, many
                        people think I'm middle eastern, although I have absolutely no
                        middle eastern heritage! So, should I identify as arabic simply b/c
                        that's how I'm perceived?? Others think I'm Mexican, although I have
                        no Mexican ancestry. Should I say that I'm Mexican just to make
                        others comfortable? I identify as Mixed or Multiethnic b/c that's
                        what I am.



                        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                        "john.cashin" <fastercash@> wrote:


                        I wasn't keen on his "mutt" joke either, the reason being is because
                        if we as bi-racial people can't respect ourselves then nobody will,
                        I don't mean that we have to be serious all the time and can't
                        have a laugh and a joke but for too long we have been perceived
                        as "messed up and confused" by some, and there are others who
                        have political motives for wanting to perpetuate that myth,
                        so for us to be self-depreciating, even in jest it's
                        just giving them ammunition, without saying it verbally
                        he should be letting the world know that he is bi-racial
                        and proud to be bi-racial which I'm sure he is really,
                        he is the most powerful man in the world, and he is
                        bi-racial, he is in a good position to finally and
                        totally disprove all these false negative ideas that
                        some have about us but careless comments like that will
                        only serve to confirm them, and the world is watching.


                        [quote]
                        Yes, I agree that Obama's election is a
                        milestone, whether or not you agree with his policies.
                        However, I'm not entirely optimistic that
                        his presidency will improve race relations or
                        elevate the discussion of race in this country.
                        Americans are just too steeped in
                        ignorance as far as I'm concerned.
                        For instance, just the other day Obama jokingly referred
                        to himself as a "mutt," and half of America was shocked.
                        The story was all over CNN.
                        Americans just aren't comfortable w/the topic
                        of race and seem incapable of having any sort
                        of honest discussion on the topic if you ask me.
                        But anyway, hopefully I'm wrong.
                        [/quote]
                      • Your Highness The Queen
                        Re: Obama jokingly referred to himself as a mutt, and half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN. I ve been reading all of the comments on
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                          half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


                          I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                          BePeace
                        • maxisterl@yahoo.com
                          Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age. I feel it is an antiquated term like negro but this is just my opinion
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
                            (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
                            I feel it is an antiquated term like
                            negro but this is just my opinion ...

                            M


                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                            -----Original Message-----




                            From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...>

                            Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
                            To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day


                            Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                            half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

                            I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                            BePeace

                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Rosanna
                            When I said half of America was shocked, I didn t mean that they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term. Rather, it seems to me people were shocked
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              When I said half of America was shocked, I didn't mean that
                              they were offended b/c of the non-PC nature of the term.
                              Rather, it seems to me people were shocked that Obama actually
                              joked about being mixed. Most people seem to view him as "black,"
                              although most are aware that his mother was White. I think if he'd
                              used another term instead of mutt, the story still would've been
                              all over CNN b/c people are just amazed that this "black" man is
                              actually mixed. Honestly, I've wondered for a long time if he
                              had a more racially ambiguous appearance, would the media still
                              refer to him as "black" or "African-American??" Probably not,
                              since we are so obsessed w/appearance in this society.


                              In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                              "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@...> wrote:


                              Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                              half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."


                              I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess
                              am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to
                              be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog. However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                              BePeace
                            • Denise Baker
                              Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 11, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day Terms of endearment are meant to be endearing, not demeaning...& generalizations are what so many of us try so hard to break away from...some words are used in a very cavalier manner, but many are microscopically scrutinized, esp Barack’s words, as he is the leader of the new world now & represents this position as a biracial being...With that said, think of a name that you would not want to be called and substitute it for ‘mutt’ - see if your response is the same...Name calling is just wrong & it hurts – its also an indication of a deeper issue...remember ‘hurt people, hurt people’...
                                Take care,
                                Denise
                                PS, M “negro’ is not an antiquated term & if that term were substituted for ‘mutt’, there would have been more than just a multiracial social group chattin about it...  


                                On 1/11/09 11:06 PM, "maxisterl@..." <maxisterl@...> wrote:


                                 

                                Ppl r comfortable w calling themselves mules
                                (mulatto / mulatta) even n this day n age.
                                I feel it is an antiquated term like
                                negro but this is just my opinion ...

                                M

                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                -----Original Message-----

                                From: "Your Highness The Queen" <la_cayena@... <mailto:la_cayena%40yahoo.com> >

                                Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:42:15
                                To: <Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Generation-Mixed%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Obama and Loving Day

                                Re: "Obama jokingly referred to himself as a "mutt," and
                                half of America was shocked. The story was all over CNN."

                                I've been reading all of the comments on this thus far and I guess I am not surprised to see the varied feelings on this. Not trying to be cute with words, really I think it must be about how you feel your skin, how thick it is, perhaps a matter of a certain kind of humor, I don't understand feeling comfortable about calling me or anyone else a mutt or a Heinz 57 or anything relating to a dog.  However, I remember when I was confronting the nature of ancestry as a child, I was also confronted with being told my father was adopted so I was left in mystery for a while. Later I found out there was more to know about both sides, but I was left in a phase of vague generalities about my ancestry for a number of years. He called himself and told me we were mutts and Heinz 57s and I didn't even like dogs! (hehe) So that description did and does not work for me, but I guess I can understand that everyone doesn't feel that same way, nor do they have to, because in the USA we are supposed to be allowed the freedom of expression. Anyway, that being said I can equally say that I don't think the terminology of guys calling other guys "dog" is any better.

                                BePeace

                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                 
                                    

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