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Re: Mexico and Mixed Society

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  • wintyreeve@aol.com
    Hello Friends, I have a question---not sure how to word this so if you have anything to add or fix, I welcome your thoughts... Mexico was was once inhabited
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 5, 2007
      Hello Friends,
       
      I have a question---not sure how to word this
      so if you have anything to add or fix,
      I welcome your thoughts...

      Mexico was was once inhabited by Indigenous people.
      I heard a Lakota elder speak and he said
      some of the words and symbolism of the Aztecs are
      similar to the Lakota language, and traditions.

      What has happened to the Multi-racial people in Mexico?
      How do they define themselves?

       


      "Every mestizo is one less Indian --
      or one more Indian waiting to reemerge."

      Jose Barreiro, Taino/Guajiro



      Indigenous Peoples of Mexico
       
      Origins of Mexico
      Ancient Native American civilizations--including those of the MAYA,
      OLMEC, ZAPOTEC, MIXTEC, TOLTEC, and AZTEC--flourished there for
      centuries before the Spanish conquest in the 16th century....

      The original inhabitants of Mexico called themselves the "Mexicas".
      The word 'Mexico' is identical in several languages,
      such as Mixtec, Otomi, Pame, and Tarasco.
      In "Nahuatl" (the language of the "Aztecs/Mexicas")
      it is the combination of three words:

      1. Metx(tli) - 'moon'
      2. xic(tli) - 'navel'
      3. co - 'in'

      This gives Mexico a meaning of "In the navel of the Moon".

      Since the postions of the lakes, upon which Mexico
      City was founded, are shaped like a rabbit and
      correspond to the same pattern on the moon, thus:

      Mexico = The Rabbit's Navel"



      Blacks and Indians in Mexico

      http://www.african-nativeamerican.com/blackmex.htm



      Written by Patrice Farmer   
      Saturday, 01 May 2004

      Cracking the Racial Divide

       

      Tracing the Historical Connection of The Castizo,
      The Modern Mulatto vs. the Colonial Mexican Mulatto

      by Patrice Farmer May/June 2004



      Maybe it was youth that blinded me from seeing the
      racial divide when I had lived out west in Arizona,
      New Mexico and Montana as a 18 yr old girl.

      Maybe it was the area in which I lived
      and the difference in people.

      Maybe it's the fact that I moved to a town in Colorado,
      a completely different experience than when I was 18.

      Now I see what I could not see then, the
      problem between Castizos and Mulattoes.

      Historically, the two groups have a common history,
      including Intermixing between the two groups, but
      that history seems to be lost amongst many people.

      My experience has been troubling to me, especially since
      I looked forward to having brown faces, whose color isn't
      different from my own, compared to the place I had
      just moved from in Tennessee, which was majority White.

      I was in for a shock when I would stand in line and find that the
      people who were acting very near the way that I had experienced
      white people in Tennessee acting toward me, in how they grabbed
      their purses etc. weren't White, they were Mexican or Latinos.

      The stares that I got now weren't White faces or even
      Black faces, but Mexican and I could not understand why,
      after all; we were both brown, some even browner than I.

      Could it be possibly that they disliked me for my
      race or racial mixtures and what that represents?

      After all, they were Mixed race as well;
      they were Castizos-(Half White and Mexican)
      and Mestizos(half Indian, half Spanish)
      and I am a Multiracial or, historically, a Mulatto;
      being Mixed with Black, White, Puerto Rican, and
      Indian and the mother of a Multi/Bi-Racial child
      (half multiracial, half Irish or quadroon) who
      is blond haired, white skinned, with blue eyes.

      But, time after time the dissension between myself, a
      Mixed Race person and the Latino community in which I now
      live, occurred over and over again and then I understood
      that it was not the color of my skin but in fact my ethnicity.

      Having moved to the area of town I did, I found
      that there were a few Black faces where I reside,
      and smaller than that was a few Mixed race faces.

      The Mixed people I've seen here are mostly
      children with few being of adult age..

      The three Mixed groups I've identified here are
      Mexican and White (Castizos), Mexican and Black
      (Colonial Mexicos definition of Mulatto*) or White
      and Black-(the Modern definition of Mulatto**).

      It seems from my observations that the group that
      fares the best is White and Mexican (a Mixed Race
      group in itself) and the offspring of Mexican
      and White intermixing or Castizos and
      their offspring, (considered White).

      Many who are Intermixing between White and
      Mexican do not consider themselves to be Intermixing.

      The children (Castizos) and their even Whiter
      grandchildren aren't treated differently, it
      is the most prominent Mixed Race group here.

      They are also inclined to view the other
      two Mixed race groups as "shocking".

      They are inclined to stare, make comments etc.

      The Mexican and Black group (C. Mulatto*)- tends to fair
      much better than the White and Black group (M. Mulatto**).

      The reason is because in this town, the majority of faces
      seen are Mexican descent, so depending on the way the person
      appears, they either blend in seamlessly or stand out.

      The least liked and understood is the non-hispanic
      Mulatto or Biracial, especially with the
      "stereotypical biracial appearance".

      This group is often on the outskirts of all the groups:
      White, Mexican/Latino, the Castizos and Mestizos.

      What strikes me as strange is that for the first time in
      my numerous experiences as a Mixed Race person, I have had
      an ethnic group (that has occasionally confused me for being
      of that group), who have fears of me as Mixed Race or Mulatto.

      But, in this case, it's an us-versus-them situation.

      I have seen White and Mexican couples stare and make
      comments about my blond haired, White skinned daughter
      and myself-("of stereotypical biracial appearance")
      and that struck me as very ironic.

      Not only is that minority upon minority racism, but
      the two groups are historically and racially connected
      which created the product of Mixed race people, the Mexicans.

      So, they are in fact being prejudiced against
      themselves and their own heritage when they
      look at a Mixed person and see 'the dreaded "other".'

      Historically in Colonial Mexico, from the time that the
      conquistador Hernan Cortes brought 2 African Slaves to Mexico,
      African slaves were brought to work in the plantations after
      the enslaved Native Indian population had nearly diminished.

      The slaves worked the plantations
      and outnumbered the Indian community
      until the Indian numbers increased as well.

      The Spanish believed in Miscegenation-(leaving their
      colonies with loyal subjects to the Crown of Spain)-
      and so they encouraged the populace to intermix.

      The Spanish intermixed with two main groups
      which created a new racial group within
      Mexico and the rest of Latin America:



      One ParentOne ParentRace Classification of Child

      Spaniards

      African Slaves

      Mulatto

      Spaniards

      Native Indians

      Mestizos

       

      These groups were splintered into several main groups:

      One ParentOne ParentRace Classification of Child

      Mestizo

      Spaniard

      Castizo

      Mestizo

      Mulatto

      Cuarteron

      Mestizo

      Native Indian

      Coyote

      Mulatto

      Spaniard

      Morisco or Moor

      Mulatto

      Native Indian

      Chino

      Mulatto

      African Slaves

      Zambo

      African Slaves

      Native Indian

      Sambo or Lobo

      African Slaves

      Mestizo

      Mulatto-oscuro



      There are many, many more Classifications
      for people having multiple Mixtures.

      These groups continued to Mix until the majority
      of the people were classified as Mestizoes and
      Native Indians, though their bloodline has Black
      in it as well and so Mexico's national identity
      became known as a Mestizo nation, a Mixture of
      Indian and Spanish, and therefore the Mulatto and
      African was written out of the history of Mexico.

      Many Mexicans are unaware of the history of the
      Mulatto in Mexico and their only understanding
      of the racial mixing is that of Indian and White and
      therefore they believe they have no connection to me.

      That is why there can exist between a Mexican /
      Latino and a Multiracial-(Mulatto) ethnic prejudice.

      That is how a Mexican/Latino of the same color as a
      Multiracial with identical or similar hair and eyes
      'can be considered' two separate races, because the
      National racial "identity" of the Mexican is that
      of a Spanish and Indian ancestry coupled with a
      linguistic difference between Mexicans and Mulattoes,
      though the two have more in common than none.

      So, is the Mexican/Latino ignorant
      of their Mulatto history?

      I believe most people are
      ignorant of their Mulatto history.

      It's our job to educate!!!

    • mulatta_loca
      I live in the US/Mexico border region. The population of my city is 85-90% Hispanic (comprised of Mexican nationals, Mexican Americans, Latin Americans, and
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 6, 2007
        I live in the US/Mexico border region.

        The population of my city is 85-90% "Hispanic"
        (comprised of Mexican nationals, Mexican Americans,
        Latin Americans, and Latinos of other groups).

        Anyway, most persons of Mexican descent are Mestizo
        -- meaning Mixed w/Indigenous and Spaniard (there
        are few or no people who can realistically
        claim to be 100% descended from Europeans).
        Most Mexicans acknowledge this.

        However, at least from what I've observed,
        the society is rather 'Colorist' in that
        being 'lighter-skinned' is considered "better".
        'Indios'" or 'Indigenous' people are
        looked down upon as "dirty" and "uneducated".
        Also, there are people of African descent, but
        they generally don't identify as "black," but
        rather as "Moreno" from the word "Moor"
        and which basically means "dark-skinned."
        From what I've seen Mexican
        culture is rather "Afrophobic".

        Well, in general terms, that's what
        I've observed during my 12 years
        here in the border region.



        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
        wintyreeve@... wrote:



        Hello Friends,

        I have a question---not sure how to word this
        so if you have anything to add or fix,
        I welcome your thoughts...

        Mexico was was once inhabited by Indigenous people.
        I heard a Lakota elder speak and he said
        some of the words and symbolism of the Aztecs are
        similar to the Lakota language, and traditions.



        What has happened to the
        Multi-racial people in Mexico?

        How do they define themselves?



        "Every mestizo is one less Indian --
        or one more Indian waiting to reemerge."



        Jose Barreiro, Taino/Guajiro



        Indigenous Peoples of Mexico
        http://www.indians.org/welker/mexman01.htm

        Origins of Mexico
        http://www.indians.org/welker/origins.htm
        Ancient Native American civilizations--
        including those of the MAYA, OLMEC,
        ZAPOTEC, MIXTEC, TOLTEC, and AZTEC--
        flourished there for centuries before the
        Spanish conquest in the 16th century....

        The original inhabitants of Mexico
        called themselves the "Mexicas".

        The word 'Mexico' is identical in
        several languages, such as Mixtec,
        Otomi, Pame, and Tarasco.

        In "Nahuatl" (the language
        of the "Aztecs/Mexicas") it is
        the combination of three words:

        1. Metx(tli) - 'moon'
        2. xic(tli) - 'navel'
        3. co - 'in'


        This gives Mexico a meaning
        of "In the navel of the Moon".

        Since the postions of the lakes,
        upon which Mexico City was founded,
        are shaped like a rabbit and correspond
        to the same pattern on the moon, thus:


        Mexico = The Rabbit's Navel"


        Blacks and Indians in Mexico

        http://www.african-nativeamerican.com/blackmex.htm



        Written by Patrice Farmer
        Saturday, 01 May 2004


        Cracking the Racial Divide


        Tracing the Historical Connection of The Castizo,
        The Modern Mulatto vs. the Colonial Mexican Mulatto

        by Patrice Farmer May/June 2004

        http://multiracial.com/site/content/view/350/27/

        Maybe it was youth that blinded me from seeing the
        racial divide when I had lived out west in Arizona,
        New Mexico and Montana as a 18 yr old girl.

        Maybe it was the area in which I lived
        and the difference in people.

        Maybe it's the fact that I moved to a town in Colorado,
        a completely different experience than when I was 18.

        Now I see what I could not see then, the
        problem between Castizos and Mulattoes.

        Historically, the two groups have a common history,
        including Intermixing between the two groups, but
        that history seems to be lost amongst many people.

        My experience has been troubling to me, especially since
        I looked forward to having brown faces, whose color isn't
        different from my own, compared to the place I had
        just moved from in Tennessee, which was majority White.

        I was in for a shock when I would stand in line and find that the
        people who were acting very near the way that I had experienced
        white people in Tennessee acting toward me, in how they grabbed
        their purses etc. weren't White, they were Mexican or Latinos.

        The stares that I got now weren't White faces or even
        Black faces, but Mexican and I could not understand why,
        after all; we were both brown, some even browner than I.

        Could it be possibly that they disliked me for my
        race or racial mixtures and what that represents?

        After all, they were Mixed race as well;
        they were Castizos-(Half White and Mexican)
        and Mestizos(half Indian, half Spanish)
        and I am a Multiracial or, historically, a Mulatto;
        being Mixed with Black, White, Puerto Rican, and
        Indian and the mother of a Multi/Bi-Racial child
        (half multiracial, half Irish or quadroon) who
        is blond haired, white skinned, with blue eyes.

        But, time after time the dissension between myself, a
        Mixed Race person and the Latino community in which I now
        live, occurred over and over again and then I understood
        that it was not the color of my skin but in fact my ethnicity.

        Having moved to the area of town I did, I found
        that there were a few Black faces where I reside,
        and smaller than that was a few Mixed race faces.

        The Mixed people I've seen here are mostly
        children with few being of adult age..

        The three Mixed groups I've identified here are
        Mexican and White (Castizos), Mexican and Black
        (Colonial Mexicos definition of Mulatto*) or White
        and Black-(the Modern definition of Mulatto**).

        It seems from my observations that the group that
        fares the best is White and Mexican (a Mixed Race
        group in itself) and the offspring of Mexican
        and White intermixing or Castizos and
        their offspring, (considered White).

        Many who are Intermixing between White and
        Mexican do not consider themselves to be Intermixing.

        The children (Castizos) and their even Whiter
        grandchildren aren't treated differently, it
        is the most prominent Mixed Race group here.

        They are also inclined to view the other
        two Mixed race groups as "shocking".

        They are inclined to stare, make comments etc.

        The Mexican and Black group (C. Mulatto*)- tends to fair
        much better than the White and Black group (M. Mulatto**).

        The reason is because in this town, the majority of faces
        seen are Mexican descent, so depending on the way the person
        appears, they either blend in seamlessly or stand out.

        The least liked and understood is the non-hispanic
        Mulatto or Biracial, especially with the
        "stereotypical biracial appearance".

        This group is often on the outskirts of all the groups:
        White, Mexican/Latino, the Castizos and Mestizos.

        What strikes me as strange is that for the first time in
        my numerous experiences as a Mixed Race person, I have had
        an ethnic group (that has occasionally confused me for being
        of that group), who have fears of me as Mixed Race or Mulatto.

        But, in this case, it's an us-versus-them situation.

        I have seen White and Mexican couples stare and make
        comments about my blond haired, White skinned daughter
        and myself-("of stereotypical biracial appearance")
        and that struck me as very ironic.

        Not only is that minority upon minority racism, but
        the two groups are historically and racially connected
        which created the product of Mixed race people, the Mexicans.

        So, they are in fact being prejudiced against
        themselves and their own heritage when they
        look at a Mixed person and see 'the dreaded "other".'

        Historically in Colonial Mexico, from the time that the
        conquistador Hernan Cortes brought 2 African Slaves to Mexico,
        African slaves were brought to work in the plantations after
        the enslaved Native Indian population had nearly diminished.

        The slaves worked the plantations
        and outnumbered the Indian community
        until the Indian numbers increased as well.

        The Spanish believed in Miscegenation-(leaving their
        colonies with loyal subjects to the Crown of Spain)-
        and so they encouraged the populace to intermix.

        The Spanish intermixed with two main groups
        which created a new racial group within
        Mexico and the rest of Latin America:



        One Parent
        +
        One Parent
        =
        Race Classification of Child


        Spaniards
        +
        African Slaves
        =
        Mulatto


        Spaniards
        +
        Native Indians
        =
        Mestizos



        These groups were splintered
        into several main groups:



        One Parent
        +
        One Parent
        =
        Race Classification of Child


        Mestizo
        +
        Spaniard
        =
        Castizo


        Mestizo
        +
        Mulatto
        =
        Cuarteron


        Mestizo
        +
        Native Indian
        =
        Coyote


        Mulatto
        +
        Spaniard
        =
        Morisco or Moor

        Mulatto
        +
        Native Indian
        =
        Chino


        Mulatto
        +
        African Slaves
        =
        Zambo


        African Slaves
        +
        Native Indian
        =
        Sambo or Lobo


        African Slaves
        +
        Mestizo
        =
        Mulatto-oscuro


        There are many, many more Classifications
        for people having multiple Mixtures.

        These groups continued to Mix until the majority
        of the people were classified as Mestizoes and
        Native Indians, though their bloodline has Black
        in it as well and so Mexico's national identity
        became known as a Mestizo nation, a Mixture of
        Indian and Spanish, and therefore the Mulatto and
        African was written out of the history of Mexico.

        Many Mexicans are unaware of the history of the
        Mulatto in Mexico and their only understanding
        of the racial mixing is that of Indian and White and
        therefore they believe they have no connection to me.

        That is why there can exist between a Mexican /
        Latino and a Multiracial-(Mulatto) ethnic prejudice.

        That is how a Mexican/Latino of the same color as a
        Multiracial with identical or similar hair and eyes
        'can be considered' two separate races, because the
        National racial "identity" of the Mexican is that
        of a Spanish and Indian ancestry coupled with a
        linguistic difference between Mexicans and Mulattoes,
        though the two have more in common than none.

        So, is the Mexican/Latino ignorant
        of their Mulatto history?

        I believe most people are
        ignorant of their Mulatto history.

        It's our job to educate!!!
      • Rommel Santos
        I was made to believe through my readings of history that the racial question in Mexico has long been resolved in the past. Mexico had at least one native
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 6, 2007
          I was made to believe through my readings
          of history that the racial question in
          Mexico has long been resolved in the past.
          Mexico had at least one native Indian president,
          and glories in the exploits of a native hero
          who terrorized Americans beyond the border
          in the early years of the 20th century.
          Certainly, Mexicans are enormously proud of
          pre-Columbian civilizations in the Yucatan
          Peninsula and in the central plateau.
          Some writers even portray Mexico as among the least
          self-conscious (i.e. "ashamed") of Spanish-speaking
          nations in the Americas of its native heritage.

          Mulatta-Loca, thank you for painting reality for me.

          Books are one thing, reality is another.
          You also confirmed what I
          suspected about two decades ago.

          Some (if not many) Mexicans do not
          particularly like black people.

          I do not mean to be anti-Hispanophone, but
          I've noticed the same as regards attitudes
          of many Spaniards, Colombians, Argentines,
          some Cubans and Puerto Ricans even.

          Despite the sizable number of Mulattoes and
          "pure" Blacks in Spanish-speaking Panama,
          Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic,
          Venezuela, and Colombia, and in Portuguese-speaking
          Brazil, it seems to me that Black and Mulatto people
          continue to be looked down upon in these countries.

          Take a beauty contest for instance.

          Ever noticed a black or predominantly Black Miss
          Puerto Rico, Miss Brazil or Miss Venezuela?

          Ever noticed if Black faces appear
          often on TV in these countries?

          This is sad because I dare say that the Spanish
          Caribbean would not have been what it is without the
          African element, and Brazil would not have bequeathed
          to the world without the African element.

          And Latin America would not have been Latin America
          without the infusion of African/Mulatto culture.

          To think that Brazil, for one, is
          portrayed as not at all race-conscious.

          Will anyone explain the ambivalent attitude
          of Latin Americans toward Mulattoes and Blacks?
           
          Sincerely,
          RCS

          mulatta_loca <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:


          I live in the US/Mexico border region.

          The population of my city is 85-90% "Hispanic"
          (comprised of Mexican nationals, Mexican Americans,
          Latin Americans, and Latinos of other groups).

          Anyway, most persons of Mexican descent are Mestizo
          -- meaning Mixed w/Indigenous and Spaniard (there
          are few or no people who can realistically
          claim to be 100% descended from Europeans).
          Most Mexicans acknowledge this.

          However, at least from what I've observed,
          the society is rather 'Colorist' in that
          being 'lighter-skinned' is considered "better".
          'Indios'" or 'Indigenous' people are
          looked down upon as "dirty" and "uneducated" .
          Also, there are people of African descent, but
          they generally don't identify as "black," but
          rather as "Moreno" from the word "Moor"
          and which basically means "dark-skinned. "
          From what I've seen Mexican
          culture is rather "Afrophobic" .

          Well, in general terms, that's what
          I've observed during my 12 years
          here in the border region.


          wintyreeve@. .. wrote:

          Hello Friends,

          I have a question---not sure how to word this
          so if you have anything to add or fix,
          I welcome your thoughts...

          Mexico was was once inhabited by Indigenous people.
          I heard a Lakota elder speak and he said
          some of the words and symbolism of the Aztecs are
          similar to the Lakota language, and traditions.

          What has happened to the
          Multi-racial people in Mexico?

          How do they define themselves?

          "Every mestizo is one less Indian --
          or one more Indian waiting to reemerge."

          Jose Barreiro, Taino/Guajiro

          Indigenous Peoples of Mexico
          http://www.indians. org/welker/ mexman01. htm

          Origins of Mexico
          http://www.indians. org/welker/ origins.htm
          Ancient Native American civilizations- -
          including those of the MAYA, OLMEC,
          ZAPOTEC, MIXTEC, TOLTEC, and AZTEC--
          flourished there for centuries before the
          Spanish conquest in the 16th century....

          The original inhabitants of Mexico
          called themselves the "Mexicas".

          The word 'Mexico' is identical in
          several languages, such as Mixtec,
          Otomi, Pame, and Tarasco.

          In "Nahuatl" (the language
          of the "Aztecs/Mexicas" ) it is
          the combination of three words:

          1. Metx(tli) - 'moon'
          2. xic(tli) - 'navel'
          3. co - 'in'

          This gives Mexico a meaning
          of "In the navel of the Moon".

          Since the postions of the lakes,
          upon which Mexico City was founded,
          are shaped like a rabbit and correspond
          to the same pattern on the moon, thus:

          Mexico = The Rabbit's Navel"

          Blacks and Indians in Mexico

          http://www.african- nativeamerican. com/blackmex. htm

          Written by Patrice Farmer
          Saturday, 01 May 2004

          Cracking the Racial Divide


          Tracing the Historical Connection of The Castizo,
          The Modern Mulatto vs. the Colonial Mexican Mulatto

          by Patrice Farmer May/June 2004

          http://multiracial. com/site/ content/view/ 350/27/

          Maybe it was youth that blinded me from seeing the
          racial divide when I had lived out west in Arizona,
          New Mexico and Montana as a 18 yr old girl.

          Maybe it was the area in which I lived
          and the difference in people.

          Maybe it's the fact that I moved to a town in Colorado,
          a completely different experience than when I was 18.

          Now I see what I could not see then, the
          problem between Castizos and Mulattoes.

          Historically, the two groups have a common history,
          including Intermixing between the two groups, but
          that history seems to be lost amongst many people.

          My experience has been troubling to me, especially since
          I looked forward to having brown faces, whose color isn't
          different from my own, compared to the place I had
          just moved from in Tennessee, which was majority White.

          I was in for a shock when I would stand in line and find that the
          people who were acting very near the way that I had experienced
          white people in Tennessee acting toward me, in how they grabbed
          their purses etc. weren't White, they were Mexican or Latinos.

          The stares that I got now weren't White faces or even
          Black faces, but Mexican and I could not understand why,
          after all; we were both brown, some even browner than I.

          Could it be possibly that they disliked me for my
          race or racial mixtures and what that represents?

          After all, they were Mixed race as well;
          they were Castizos-(Half White and Mexican)
          and Mestizos(half Indian, half Spanish)
          and I am a Multiracial or, historically, a Mulatto;
          being Mixed with Black, White, Puerto Rican, and
          Indian and the mother of a Multi/Bi-Racial child
          (half multiracial, half Irish or quadroon) who
          is blond haired, white skinned, with blue eyes.

          But, time after time the dissension between myself, a
          Mixed Race person and the Latino community in which I now
          live, occurred over and over again and then I understood
          that it was not the color of my skin but in fact my ethnicity.

          Having moved to the area of town I did, I found
          that there were a few Black faces where I reside,
          and smaller than that was a few Mixed race faces.

          The Mixed people I've seen here are mostly
          children with few being of adult age..

          The three Mixed groups I've identified here are
          Mexican and White (Castizos), Mexican and Black
          (Colonial Mexicos definition of Mulatto*) or White
          and Black-(the Modern definition of Mulatto**).

          It seems from my observations that the group that
          fares the best is White and Mexican (a Mixed Race
          group in itself) and the offspring of Mexican
          and White intermixing or Castizos and
          their offspring, (considered White).

          Many who are Intermixing between White and
          Mexican do not consider themselves to be Intermixing.

          The children (Castizos) and their even Whiter
          grandchildren aren't treated differently, it
          is the most prominent Mixed Race group here.

          They are also inclined to view the other
          two Mixed race groups as "shocking".

          They are inclined to stare, make comments etc.

          The Mexican and Black group (C. Mulatto*)- tends to fair
          much better than the White and Black group (M. Mulatto**).

          The reason is because in this town, the majority of faces
          seen are Mexican descent, so depending on the way the person
          appears, they either blend in seamlessly or stand out.

          The least liked and understood is the non-hispanic
          Mulatto or Biracial, especially with the
          "stereotypical biracial appearance".

          This group is often on the outskirts of all the groups:
          White, Mexican/Latino, the Castizos and Mestizos.

          What strikes me as strange is that for the first time in
          my numerous experiences as a Mixed Race person, I have had
          an ethnic group (that has occasionally confused me for being
          of that group), who have fears of me as Mixed Race or Mulatto.

          But, in this case, it's an us-versus-them situation.

          I have seen White and Mexican couples stare and make
          comments about my blond haired, White skinned daughter
          and myself-("of stereotypical biracial appearance")
          and that struck me as very ironic.

          Not only is that minority upon minority racism, but
          the two groups are historically and racially connected
          which created the product of Mixed race people, the Mexicans.

          So, they are in fact being prejudiced against
          themselves and their own heritage when they
          look at a Mixed person and see 'the dreaded "other".'

          Historically in Colonial Mexico, from the time that the
          conquistador Hernan Cortes brought 2 African Slaves to Mexico,
          African slaves were brought to work in the plantations after
          the enslaved Native Indian population had nearly diminished.

          The slaves worked the plantations
          and outnumbered the Indian community
          until the Indian numbers increased as well.

          The Spanish believed in Miscegenation- (leaving their
          colonies with loyal subjects to the Crown of Spain)-
          and so they encouraged the populace to intermix.

          The Spanish intermixed with two main groups
          which created a new racial group within
          Mexico and the rest of Latin America:

          One Parent
          +
          One Parent
          =
          Race Classification of Child

          Spaniards
          +
          African Slaves
          =
          Mulatto

          Spaniards
          +
          Native Indians
          =
          Mestizos


          These groups were splintered
          into several main groups:

          One Parent
          +
          One Parent
          =
          Race Classification of Child

          Mestizo
          +
          Spaniard
          =
          Castizo


          Mestizo
          +
          Mulatto
          =
          Cuarteron


          Mestizo
          +
          Native Indian
          =
          Coyote


          Mulatto
          +
          Spaniard
          =
          Morisco or Moor

          Mulatto
          +
          Native Indian
          =
          Chino


          Mulatto
          +
          African Slaves
          =
          Zambo


          African Slaves
          +
          Native Indian
          =
          Sambo or Lobo


          African Slaves
          +
          Mestizo
          =
          Mulatto-oscuro


          There are many, many more Classifications
          for people having multiple Mixtures.

          These groups continued to Mix until the majority
          of the people were classified as Mestizoes and
          Native Indians, though their bloodline has Black
          in it as well and so Mexico's national identity
          became known as a Mestizo nation, a Mixture of
          Indian and Spanish, and therefore the Mulatto and
          African was written out of the history of Mexico.

          Many Mexicans are unaware of the history of the
          Mulatto in Mexico and their only understanding
          of the racial mixing is that of Indian and White and
          therefore they believe they have no connection to me.

          That is why there can exist between a Mexican /
          Latino and a Multiracial- (Mulatto) ethnic prejudice.

          That is how a Mexican/Latino of the same color as a
          Multiracial with identical or similar hair and eyes
          'can be considered' two separate races, because the
          National racial "identity" of the Mexican is that
          of a Spanish and Indian ancestry coupled with a
          linguistic difference between Mexicans and Mulattoes,
          though the two have more in common than none.

          So, is the Mexican/Latino ignorant
          of their Mulatto history?

          I believe most people are
          ignorant of their Mulatto history.

          It's our job to educate!!!

        • mulatta_loca
          Hi, Rommel. Yes, Benito Juarez was a Zapotec Indian. But, you know how I found this out? From a White Anthropology professor when I was an undergraduate. After
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 7, 2007
            Hi, Rommel.

            Yes, Benito Juarez was a Zapotec Indian.
            But, you know how I found this out?
            From a White Anthropology professor
            when I was an undergraduate.
            After learning this tidbit, I mentioned it to some
            of my Mexican friends who looked at me askance,
            and either said nothing or expressed surprise.
            So, yeah, like you said, books are one thing
            and day-to-day reality is often quite another.
            Unfortunately, in my opinion, many of these
            sociology and history books are written by
            "intellectuals" who live mostly in their
            heads and have little real connection
            to the groups which they study.



            In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
            Rommel Santos <rrcs_law@...> wrote:



            I was made to believe through my readings
            of history that the racial question in
            Mexico has long been resolved in the past.
            Mexico had at least one native Indian president,
            and glories in the exploits of a native hero
            who terrorized Americans beyond the border
            in the early years of the 20th century.
            Certainly, Mexicans are enormously proud of
            pre-Columbian civilizations in the Yucatan
            Peninsula and in the central plateau.
            Some writers even portray Mexico as among the least
            self-conscious (i.e. "ashamed") of Spanish-speaking
            nations in the Americas of its native heritage.

            Mulatta-Loca, thank you for painting reality for me.

            Books are one thing, reality is another.
            You also confirmed what I
            suspected about two decades ago.
            Some (if not many) Mexicans do not
            particularly like black people.
            I do not mean to be anti-Hispanophone, but
            I've noticed the same as regards attitudes
            of many Spaniards, Colombians, Argentines,
            some Cubans and Puerto Ricans even.

            Despite the sizable number of Mulattoes and
            "pure" Blacks in Spanish-speaking Panama,
            Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic,
            Venezuela, and Colombia, and in Portuguese-speaking
            Brazil, it seems to me that Black and Mulatto people
            continue to be looked down upon in these countries.

            Take a beauty contest for instance.

            Ever noticed a black or predominantly Black Miss
            Puerto Rico, Miss Brazil or Miss Venezuela?

            Ever noticed if Black faces appear
            often on TV in these countries?

            This is sad because I dare say that the Spanish
            Caribbean would not have been what it is without the
            African element, and Brazil would not have bequeathed
            to the world without the African element.

            And Latin America would not have been Latin America
            without the infusion of African/Mulatto culture.

            To think that Brazil, for one, is
            portrayed as not at all race-conscious.

            Will anyone explain the ambivalent attitude
            of Latin Americans toward Mulattoes and Blacks?

            Sincerely,
            RCS



            mulatta_loca <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:


            I live in the US/Mexico border region.
            The population of my city is 85-90% "Hispanic"
            (comprised of Mexican nationals, Mexican Americans,
            Latin Americans, and Latinos of other groups).

            Anyway, most persons of Mexican descent are Mestizo
            -- meaning Mixed w/Indigenous and Spaniard (there
            are few or no people who can realistically
            claim to be 100% descended from Europeans).
            Most Mexicans acknowledge this.

            However, at least from what I've observed,
            the society is rather 'Colorist' in that
            being 'lighter-skinned' is considered "better".
            'Indios'" or 'Indigenous' people are
            looked down upon as "dirty" and "uneducated".
            Also, there are people of African descent, but
            they generally don't identify as "black," but
            rather as "Moreno" from the word "Moor"
            and which basically means "dark-skinned."
            From what I've seen Mexican
            culture is rather "Afrophobic".

            Well, in general terms, that's what
            I've observed during my 12 years
            here in the border region.



            wintyreeve@ wrote:



            Hello Friends,

            I have a question---not sure how to word this
            so if you have anything to add or fix,
            I welcome your thoughts...

            Mexico was was once inhabited by Indigenous people.
            I heard a Lakota elder speak and he said
            some of the words and symbolism of the Aztecs are
            similar to the Lakota language, and traditions.

            What has happened to the
            Multi-racial people in Mexico?

            How do they define themselves?

            "Every mestizo is one less Indian --
            or one more Indian waiting to reemerge."

            Jose Barreiro, Taino/Guajiro

            Indigenous Peoples of Mexico
            http://www.indians.org/welker/mexman01.htm

            Origins of Mexico
            http://www.indians.org/welker/origins.htm
            Ancient Native American civilizations--
            including those of the MAYA, OLMEC,
            ZAPOTEC, MIXTEC, TOLTEC, and AZTEC--
            flourished there for centuries before the
            Spanish conquest in the 16th century....

            The original inhabitants of Mexico
            called themselves the "Mexicas".

            The word 'Mexico' is identical in
            several languages, such as Mixtec,
            Otomi, Pame, and Tarasco.

            In "Nahuatl" (the language
            of the "Aztecs/Mexicas") it is
            the combination of three words:

            1. Metx(tli) - 'moon'
            2. xic(tli) - 'navel'
            3. co - 'in'

            This gives Mexico a meaning
            of "In the navel of the Moon".

            Since the postions of the lakes,
            upon which Mexico City was founded,
            are shaped like a rabbit and correspond
            to the same pattern on the moon, thus:

            Mexico = The Rabbit's Navel"

            Blacks and Indians in Mexico

            http://www.african-nativeamerican.com/blackmex.htm

            Written by Patrice Farmer
            Saturday, 01 May 2004


            Cracking the Racial Divide


            Tracing the Historical Connection of The Castizo,
            The Modern Mulatto vs. the Colonial Mexican Mulatto

            by Patrice Farmer May/June 2004

            http://multiracial.com/site/content/view/350/27/

            Maybe it was youth that blinded me from seeing the
            racial divide when I had lived out west in Arizona,
            New Mexico and Montana as a 18 yr old girl.

            Maybe it was the area in which I lived
            and the difference in people.

            Maybe it's the fact that I moved to a town in Colorado,
            a completely different experience than when I was 18.

            Now I see what I could not see then, the
            problem between Castizos and Mulattoes.

            Historically, the two groups have a common history,
            including Intermixing between the two groups, but
            that history seems to be lost amongst many people.

            My experience has been troubling to me, especially since
            I looked forward to having brown faces, whose color isn't
            different from my own, compared to the place I had
            just moved from in Tennessee, which was majority White.

            I was in for a shock when I would stand in line and find that the
            people who were acting very near the way that I had experienced
            white people in Tennessee acting toward me, in how they grabbed
            their purses etc. weren't White, they were Mexican or Latinos.

            The stares that I got now weren't White faces or even
            Black faces, but Mexican and I could not understand why,
            after all; we were both brown, some even browner than I.

            Could it be possibly that they disliked me for my
            race or racial mixtures and what that represents?

            After all, they were Mixed race as well;
            they were Castizos-(Half White and Mexican)
            and Mestizos(half Indian, half Spanish)
            and I am a Multiracial or, historically, a Mulatto;
            being Mixed with Black, White, Puerto Rican, and
            Indian and the mother of a Multi/Bi-Racial child
            (half multiracial, half Irish or quadroon) who
            is blond haired, white skinned, with blue eyes.

            But, time after time the dissension between myself, a
            Mixed Race person and the Latino community in which I now
            live, occurred over and over again and then I understood
            that it was not the color of my skin but in fact my ethnicity.

            Having moved to the area of town I did, I found
            that there were a few Black faces where I reside,
            and smaller than that was a few Mixed race faces.

            The Mixed people I've seen here are mostly
            children with few being of adult age..

            The three Mixed groups I've identified here are
            Mexican and White (Castizos), Mexican and Black
            (Colonial Mexicos definition of Mulatto*) or White
            and Black-(the Modern definition of Mulatto**).

            It seems from my observations that the group that
            fares the best is White and Mexican (a Mixed Race
            group in itself) and the offspring of Mexican
            and White intermixing or Castizos and
            their offspring, (considered White).

            Many who are Intermixing between White and
            Mexican do not consider themselves to be Intermixing.

            The children (Castizos) and their even Whiter
            grandchildren aren't treated differently, it
            is the most prominent Mixed Race group here.

            They are also inclined to view the other
            two Mixed race groups as "shocking".

            They are inclined to stare, make comments etc.

            The Mexican and Black group (C. Mulatto*)- tends to fair
            much better than the White and Black group (M. Mulatto**).

            The reason is because in this town, the majority of faces
            seen are Mexican descent, so depending on the way the person
            appears, they either blend in seamlessly or stand out.

            The least liked and understood is the non-hispanic
            Mulatto or Biracial, especially with the
            "stereotypical biracial appearance".

            This group is often on the outskirts of all the groups:
            White, Mexican/Latino, the Castizos and Mestizos.

            What strikes me as strange is that for the first time in
            my numerous experiences as a Mixed Race person, I have had
            an ethnic group (that has occasionally confused me for being
            of that group), who have fears of me as Mixed Race or Mulatto.

            But, in this case, it's an us-versus-them situation.

            I have seen White and Mexican couples stare and make
            comments about my blond haired, White skinned daughter
            and myself-("of stereotypical biracial appearance")
            and that struck me as very ironic.

            Not only is that minority upon minority racism, but
            the two groups are historically and racially connected
            which created the product of Mixed race people, the Mexicans.

            So, they are in fact being prejudiced against
            themselves and their own heritage when they look
            at a Mixed person and see 'the dreaded "other".'

            Historically in Colonial Mexico, from the time that the
            conquistador Hernan Cortes brought 2 African Slaves to Mexico,
            African slaves were brought to work in the plantations after
            the enslaved Native Indian population had nearly diminished.

            The slaves worked the plantations
            and outnumbered the Indian community
            until the Indian numbers increased as well.

            The Spanish believed in Miscegenation-(leaving their
            colonies with loyal subjects to the Crown of Spain)-
            and so they encouraged the populace to intermix.

            The Spanish intermixed with two main groups
            which created a new racial group within
            Mexico and the rest of Latin America:

            One Parent
            +
            One Parent
            =
            Race Classification of Child

            Spaniards
            +
            African Slaves
            =
            Mulatto

            Spaniards
            +
            Native Indians
            =
            Mestizos


            These groups were splintered
            into several main groups:

            One Parent
            +
            One Parent
            =
            Race Classification of Child

            Mestizo
            +
            Spaniard
            =
            Castizo


            Mestizo
            +
            Mulatto
            =
            Cuarteron


            Mestizo
            +
            Native Indian
            =
            Coyote


            Mulatto
            +
            Spaniard
            =
            Morisco or Moor


            Mulatto
            +
            Native Indian
            =
            Chino


            Mulatto
            +
            African Slaves
            =
            Zambo


            African Slaves
            +
            Native Indian
            =
            Sambo or Lobo


            African Slaves
            +
            Mestizo
            =
            Mulatto-oscuro


            There are many, many more Classifications
            for people having multiple Mixtures.

            These groups continued to Mix until the majority
            of the people were classified as Mestizoes and
            Native Indians, though their bloodline has Black
            in it as well and so Mexico's national identity
            became known as a Mestizo nation, a Mixture of
            Indian and Spanish, and therefore the Mulatto and
            African was written out of the history of Mexico.

            Many Mexicans are unaware of the history of the
            Mulatto in Mexico and their only understanding
            of the racial mixing is that of Indian and White and
            therefore they believe they have no connection to me.

            That is why there can exist between a Mexican /
            Latino and a Multiracial-(Mulatto) ethnic prejudice.

            That is how a Mexican/Latino of the same color as a
            Multiracial with identical or similar hair and eyes
            'can be considered' two separate races, because the
            National racial "identity" of the Mexican is that
            of a Spanish and Indian ancestry coupled with a
            linguistic difference between Mexicans and Mulattoes,
            though the two have more in common than none.

            So, is the Mexican/Latino ignorant
            of their Mulatto history?

            I believe most people are
            ignorant of their Mulatto history.

            It's our job to educate!!!
          • wintyreeve@aol.com
            Hello Friends, Was nice to hear from everyone--gave me a lot to think about. Thanks for your responses :) I went to Cinco De Mayo this year --and didn t think
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 7, 2007
              Hello Friends,
               
              Was nice to hear from everyone--gave me a lot to think about.
              Thanks for your responses :)

              I went to Cinco De Mayo this year --and didn't think about it
              until now that during the celebration there was no mention of
              Mixed people --no celebration for them, no representation at all.

              In my area, Cinco De Mayo is not only a celebration of independence
              but a celebration of Hispanic / Latino people as well.
              We have huge parties here--celebrate
              by families and the whole community.
              This year, they blocked off two neighborhoods with
              large Hispanic / Latino populations in Minneapolis
              and St. Paul for street parties with live music, food,
              parades and vendor booths that lasted all weekend.

              From the outside looking in, when I went to Cinco De Mayo
              there clearly was alot of diversity in the people who
              attended and I can't help but to think we could all
              learn from each other so why not celebrate diversity?
               
              Blessings ~* Lynn
               
            • paco2164
              CINCO DE MAYO IS NOT INDEPEDENCE DAY THAT IS SEPTEMBER 16 PLUS WE SHUOLD HAVE FUN IN LIFE NO MATTER WHAT LOKI FOR EXAMPLE I M MEXICAN AND I LOVE SELEBRATING
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 8, 2007
                CINCO DE MAYO IS NOT INDEPEDENCE DAY THAT IS SEPTEMBER 16
                PLUS WE SHUOLD HAVE FUN IN LIFE NO MATTER WHAT LOKI
                FOR EXAMPLE I'M MEXICAN AND I LOVE SELEBRATING 4TH JULY
                THNEKS



                wintyreeve@... wrote:




                Hello Friends,

                Was nice to hear from everyone--gave me a lot to think about.
                Thanks for your responses :)

                I went to Cinco De Mayo this year --and didn't think about it
                until now that during the celebration there was no mention of
                Mixed people --no celebration for them, no representation at all.

                In my area, Cinco De Mayo is not only a celebration of independence
                but a celebration of Hispanic / Latino people as well.
                We have huge parties here--celebrate
                by families and the whole community.
                This year, they blocked off two neighborhoods with
                large Hispanic / Latino populations in Minneapolis
                and St. Paul for street parties with live music, food,
                parades and vendor booths that lasted all weekend.

                From the outside looking in, when I went to Cinco De Mayo
                there clearly was alot of diversity in the people who
                attended and I can't help but to think we could all
                learn from each other so why not celebrate diversity?

                Blessings ~* Lynn
              • mulatta_loca
                Quite right. I believe Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the Mexican army over the French during the Battle of Puebla in 1862. In
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 8, 2007
                  Quite right. I believe Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the
                  Mexican army over the French during the Battle of Puebla in 1862.



                  In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                  "paco2164" <paco2164@...> wrote:



                  CINCO DE MAYO IS NOT INDEPEDENCE DAY THAT IS SEPTEMBER 16
                  PLUS WE SHUOLD HAVE FUN IN LIFE NO MATTER WHAT LOKI
                  FOR EXAMPLE I'M MEXICAN AND I LOVE SELEBRATING 4TH JULY
                  THNEKS



                  wintyreeve@ wrote:



                  Hello Friends,

                  Was nice to hear from everyone--gave me a lot to think about.
                  Thanks for your responses :)

                  I went to Cinco De Mayo this year --and didn't think about it
                  until now that during the celebration there was no mention of
                  Mixed people --no celebration for them, no representation at all.

                  In my area, Cinco De Mayo is not only a celebration of independence
                  but a celebration of Hispanic / Latino people as well.
                  We have huge parties here--celebrate
                  by families and the whole community.
                  This year, they blocked off two neighborhoods with
                  large Hispanic / Latino populations in Minneapolis
                  and St. Paul for street parties with live music, food,
                  parades and vendor booths that lasted all weekend.

                  From the outside looking in, when I went to Cinco De Mayo
                  there clearly was alot of diversity in the people who
                  attended and I can't help but to think we could all
                  learn from each other so why not celebrate diversity?

                  Blessings ~* Lynn
                • freddy perez
                  yeap sorry for the spelling lol mulatta_loca wrote: Quite right. I believe Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the Mexican
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 8, 2007
                    yeap  sorry for the spelling  lol


                    mulatta_loca <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:


                    Quite right. I believe Cinco de Mayo celebrates the victory of the
                    Mexican army over the French during the Battle of Puebla in 1862.


                    "paco2164" <paco2164@.. .> wrote:


                    CINCO DE MAYO IS NOT INDEPEDENCE DAY THAT IS SEPTEMBER 16
                    PLUS WE SHUOLD HAVE FUN IN LIFE NO MATTER WHAT LOKI
                    FOR EXAMPLE I'M MEXICAN AND I LOVE SELEBRATING 4TH JULY
                    THNEKS



                    wintyreeve@ wrote:


                    Hello Friends,

                    Was nice to hear from everyone--gave me a lot to think about.
                    Thanks for your responses :)

                    I went to Cinco De Mayo this year --and didn't think about it
                    until now that during the celebration there was no mention of
                    Mixed people --no celebration for them, no representation at all.

                    In my area, Cinco De Mayo is not only a celebration of independence
                    but a celebration of Hispanic / Latino people as well.
                    We have huge parties here--celebrate
                    by families and the whole community.
                    This year, they blocked off two neighborhoods with
                    large Hispanic / Latino populations in Minneapolis
                    and St. Paul for street parties with live music, food,
                    parades and vendor booths that lasted all weekend.

                    From the outside looking in, when I went to Cinco De Mayo
                    there clearly was alot of diversity in the people who
                    attended and I can't help but to think we could all
                    learn from each other so why not celebrate diversity?

                    Blessings ~* Lynn

                  • Heather Stimmel
                    I grew up in smalltown Ohio, and didn t see a lot of Multicultural activities, either. Then, I moved to Baltimore (MD)... where I took a job, met my son s
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 9, 2007
                      I grew up in smalltown Ohio, and didn't see
                      a lot of Multicultural activities, either.
                      Then, I moved to Baltimore (MD)... where I took
                      a job, met my son's father, and later had my son.
                      There were a lot of activities for specific Ethnic
                      groups, but none, really, for Multicultural groups.

                      Then, we moved to WV...where I was certain
                      we'd never see anything of that sort,
                      but - lo and behold, the 2nd year we
                      were here (in this small town we live in),
                      I found out about an annual festival that
                      had been held here for years ... right
                      down the street from us, at the City Park.

                      It's called the Multicultural Festival,
                      and the entertainment, the vendors, the
                      people, the FOOD... it's wonderful=)

                      The festival will be held next weekend and will
                      be for 3 days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday).

                      Saturday night, there is this AWESOME Latin band me
                      and my friends always go to see. It's a TON of fun=)
                      The only thing is... we will all be out
                      of town that weekend- for an assembly.
                      This band (I forget their name???) is pretty good
                      - so good that, they even have their own CD out=)
                      I'll have to ask my girlfriend their name,
                      because she bought their CD, last year.

                      They have Native American vendors, that sell hand-carved
                      items (out of wood, soapstone, etc.), jewelry and so-forth.
                      They have African women that sell the native African
                      dresses / clothing. It is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!
                      People sell T-shirts and other clothing items,
                      paintings (they had this one of 2-Pac last year,
                      that was just AMAZING!!!), sculptures, jewelry, hats,
                      knick-knacks, etc... and, the food is DELICIOUS=)
                      There's a mexican food stand (YUUUUUUM!), and
                      Indian food place (DOUBLE YUM=), soul food
                      (Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm=), homemade ice-cream,
                      standard festival/fair fare, etc.

                      It is just so much fun.
                      My son, friends, family and I look
                      forward to going every, single year!
                      Just wanted to let everyone know that
                      there are some pretty good get-togethers
                      out there for us Multicultural people=)

                      Sincerely, Heather
                    • wintyreeve@aol.com
                      I am a sociology major and I will never forget this lesson a teacher had planned... There was this whole essay, written by some intellectual with a six
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 14, 2007
                          I am a sociology major and I will never
                        forget this "lesson" a teacher had planned...
                        There was this whole essay, written by some intellectual
                        with a six letter title to his name, talking about how
                        sociology students get to college, read about struggles in
                        society and get so depressed they just want to give up...
                        And how do you get students to stay in
                        college and want to study these topics?
                        I was the only one who said anything to the teacher...
                        I told the teacher I don't understand how
                        any of this can be new to a person living
                        in the real world, people struggle everyday.
                        I told the teacher that my family had struggle
                        and so it was important for me to be in
                        college--to succeed despite it all.
                        The teacher looked surprised that I said something
                        -- he wasn't sure how to reply other than to say..
                        I guess that happens and Maybe we should
                        pay attention to other experiences.
                        At first I was irritated then I
                        had to laugh--it was so surreal.
                        Thanks for sharing your thoughts
                        --nice to hear from everyone :)

                        Lynn

                        In a message dated 6/7/2007 7:04:22 PM Central
                        Standard Time, rosanna_armendariz@... writes:
                        Unfortunately, in my opinion, many of these
                        sociology and history books are written by
                        "intellectuals" who live mostly in their
                        heads and have little real connection
                        to the groups which they study.




                      • mulatta_loca
                        LOL! My BA is in sociology too, and I had similar conversations with my professors. In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com, wintyreeve@... wrote: I am a
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 15, 2007
                          LOL! My BA is in sociology too, and I had
                          similar conversations with my professors.



                          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com, wintyreeve@... wrote:



                          I am a sociology major and I will never
                          forget this "lesson" a teacher had planned...
                          There was this whole essay, written by some intellectual
                          with a six letter title to his name, talking about how
                          sociology students get to college, read about struggles in
                          society and get so depressed they just want to give up...
                          And how do you get students to stay in
                          college and want to study these topics?
                          I was the only one who said anything to the teacher...
                          I told the teacher I don't understand how
                          any of this can be new to a person living
                          in the real world, people struggle everyday.
                          I told the teacher that my family had struggle
                          and so it was important for me to be in
                          college--to succeed despite it all.
                          The teacher looked surprised that I said something
                          -- he wasn't sure how to reply other than to say..
                          I guess that happens and Maybe we should
                          pay attention to other experiences.
                          At first I was irritated then I
                          had to laugh--it was so surreal.
                          Thanks for sharing your thoughts
                          --nice to hear from everyone :)

                          Lynn




                          In a message dated 6/7/2007 7:04:22 PM Central
                          Standard Time, rosanna_armendariz@... writes:



                          Unfortunately, in my opinion, many of these
                          sociology and history books are written by
                          "intellectuals" who live mostly in their
                          heads and have little real connection
                          to the groups which they study.
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