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The movie hotel rwanda

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  • john
    I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on my netflix.It was very moving and great acting. I never fully understood why these africans was fighting
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 13, 2005
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      I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on my netflix.It was very moving and great acting. I never fully understood why these africans was fighting among each other. I learned that they seperated themselves in tribal war.You have the hwutos and the totsies. I think the hwotos was the one doing the killing in the movie.They try to kill out the totsies because of some long history with the french working with the totsies to over take the hwuto tribes. They said the whites seperated these african groups by their features like color, hieght and facial nose. The totsies is said to have more narrow nose than the hwutos. The hwutos looked more african or black. The lady that played his wife in the movie,her name is sophie okonedo,is an mgm or fgm from britain england. I've seen her in other movies from england.They said she is of nigerian and european jewish background.She might be biracial,if not mgm. This movie htel rwanda is based on a true life story.

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    • jolisa
      I saw that movie when it came out. The actress that played the hotel manager s wife didn t fit into the movie as an african. You could see she had some mixture
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 13, 2005
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        I saw that movie when it came out. The actress that played the hotel manager's wife didn't fit into the movie as an african. You could see she had some mixture in her. His real life wife,the hotel manager looked african with darker features.

        john <reddgold_32@...> wrote:
        I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on my netflix.It was very moving and great acting. I never fully understood why these africans was fighting among each other. I learned that they seperated themselves in tribal war.You have the hwutos and the totsies. I think the hwotos was the one doing the killing in the movie.They try to kill out the totsies because of some long history with the french working with the totsies to over take the hwuto tribes. They said the whites seperated these african groups by their features like color, hieght and facial nose. The totsies is said to have more narrow nose than the hwutos. The hwutos looked more african or black. The lady that played his wife in the movie,her name is sophie okonedo,is an mgm or fgm from britain england. I've seen her in other movies from england.They said she is of nigerian and european jewish background.She might be biracial,if not mgm. This movie htel rwanda is based on a true life story.

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      • multiracialbookclub
        Thanks so much for sharing your review of the film with us, John. Listed below are links to additional reviews on `Hotel Rwanda . •
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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          Thanks so much for sharing your review of the film with us, John.

          Listed below are links to additional reviews on `Hotel Rwanda'.
          • http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/29/review.rwanda/
          • http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6738571
          (this review includes video/photos of person movie was based upon)

          It was interesting to me that you pointed out in your
          review, about how divisions, based on colonizer-based
          superficial 'appearance'-preferences, was one of the
          issued that sparked that aboslutely tragic tribal war.

          One thing that I always found interesting about the war in Rwanda
          (in addition to the obviously senseless volience, torture and loss
          of lives that went on) was that the 'tribes' of that nation had
          been divided and conquered by their colonizers (based, at least
          to some degree, on superficial appearances) -- then, after their
          'conquerors' were gone and they then had the chance to unite,
          they split even further along said lines and brought about
          more harm to their nation than did the original colonizers.

          History has repeatedly proven that racism, colorism, sexism,
          and all of the other "isms" clearly do nothing more than
          bring division and destruction to the state of humanity.

          Hopefully -- one day people will begin to learn lessons
          from past mistakes and teach the youth to work toward
          peace, love, tolerance, unity and acceptance of all.

          [[[On a lighter note, Don Cheadle is one of my all time
          favorite actors (he was great and stole every scene
          on the film "Devil in a Blue Dress" with Jennifer
          Beals and Denzel Washington and in "Rosewood")]]

          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
          john <reddgold_32@y...> wrote:

          I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on
          my netflix.It was very moving and great acting.
          I never fully understood why these africans was fighting among
          each other.I learned that they seperated themselves in tribal war.
          You have the hwutos and the totsies.I think the hwotos was the one
          doing the killing in the movie.They try to kill out the
          totsies because of some long history with the french
          working with the totsies to over take the hwuto tribes.
          They said the whites seperated these african groups by their features
          like color, hieght and facial nose.The totsies is said to have more
          narrow nose than the hwutos. The hwutos looked more african or black.
          The lady that played his wife in the movie,her name is
          sophie okonedo,is an mgm or fgm from britain england.
          I've seen her in other movies from england.
          They said she is of nigerian and european jewish
          background.She might be biracial,if not mgm.
          This movie htel rwanda is based on a true life story.
        • lenda aranir
          It s about divide on taking control. Racial and ethnic cleansing. john wrote:I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on my
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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            It's about divide on taking control. Racial and ethnic cleansing.

            john <reddgold_32@...> wrote:
            I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on my netflix.It was very moving and great acting. I never fully understood why these africans was fighting among each other. I learned that they seperated themselves in tribal war.You have the hwutos and the totsies. I think the hwotos was the one doing the killing in the movie.They try to kill out the totsies because of some long history with the french working with the totsies to over take the hwuto tribes. They said the whites seperated these african groups by their features like color, hieght and facial nose. The totsies is said to have more narrow nose than the hwutos. The hwutos looked more african or black. The lady that played his wife in the movie,her name is sophie okonedo,is an mgm or fgm from britain england. I've seen her in other movies from england.They said she is of nigerian and european jewish background.She might be biracial,if not mgm. This movie htel rwanda is based on a true life story.

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          • multiracialbookclub
            Listed below is a link to a rather interesting article which makes mention of Sophie Okonedo (mixed-raced British actress of `Hotel Rwanda fame) and how
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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              Listed below is a link to a rather interesting article which
              makes mention of "Sophie Okonedo" (mixed-raced British actress
              of `Hotel Rwanda' fame) and how she and other mixed-raced
              celebrities are generally depicted in the media as the
              "tragic mulatto' offspring of `shiftless-abandoning non-white
              fathers' and of `saintly white mothers ... worthy of martyrdom"
              (i.e. the newest stereotype of mixed-raced, non-whites & whites)

              The article is entitled "Poor Little Mixed Race Girls"; written
              by Helen Kolawole; and published by `Mail & Guardian' magazine.

              http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?
              articleid=9732&area==/insight/insight__body_language/#

              (You may have to copy-&-paste the link into your
              web URL Address box in order to view article –
              otherwise, article is presented below as follows)

              ******************************************************
              ******************************************************

              (Article) "POOR LITTLE MIXED RACE GIRLS"

              written by Helen Kolawole

              ******************************************************
              ******************************************************

              Personally speaking, being rebranded from
              half-caste to mixed race came as welcome relief.

              Yet, try as we might to change our image, we tragic
              "mulatresses" remain as doggedly woeful as the
              salivating madwoman in Mr Rochester's attic.


              Confused, miserable and in perpetual limbo, we are
              now apparently abundant in the world of celebrity.


              There is the soul singer Alicia Keys (raised in Hell's Kitchen,
              absent black father); the actress Halle Berry (abusive, absent
              black father); the Olympic medallist Kelly Holmes (runaway
              daddy tracked down in Jamaica); and the pop star Mariah
              Carey (absentee black father, racially ambiguous look).


              Now another has joined our ranks.


              The actress Sophie Okonedo, who received a best
              supporting actress nomination for Hotel Rwanda,
              has every prerequisite for official tragic status.
              As the London Evening Standard said, she fought
              "against the odds": an absentee Nigerian father,
              a struggling Jewish mother, a project housing upbringing.
              Despite her insistence that she is at ease with her
              heritage, she's being fast-tracked as Britain's Halle Berry.


              It is dangerous territory.


              Berry is rarely mentioned without reference to her
              "against the odds" life story, which includes spending
              her childhood not black enough for black folks and
              too touched with the tar brush for those picky whites.


              Are you seeing a pattern here?


              No sooner had double gold medallist Kelly Holmes crossed
              the finishing line at Athens last year than the media had
              her lined up as a subtle, triumph-over-miscegenation story.

              OK, not so subtle if you consider that Holmes's
              post-Athens cuttings reveal that she's the mixed-race
              child of a shiftless Jamaican father raised on a
              project housing estate in south-east England.


              ***Once these women have been
              outed as sorrowful wretches,
              the tribulations of their abandoned white
              mothers add credence to the stereotype.

              ***In the rank hypocrisy of the tabloid,
              the often vilified single mum
              is elevated to martyr.

              ***Martyr, that is, to the irresponsible ways of black men.

              ***These sympathetic write-ups are thinly veiled cautionary tales
              about the perils of white women having children with black men.


              But the divergent experiences of these celebrities'
              lives contrast greatly with the media's agenda.


              Has Holmes revealed herself to be irrevocably
              torn asunder by her raging genes?
              No, she claims to be blissfully ignorant of race.
              Does rapper Ms Dynamite come across
              as the poor little mixed-race girl?
              Quite the opposite.
              Like Berry, she clearly defines herself as a "black"
              woman and went through an endearing phase
              of referring to race repeatedly in interviews.


              ***Despite many of the United Kingdom's
              mixed-race communities
              going back generations,
              the British media have still to get to grips
              with how to portray the 700 000 Britons who
              registered themselves "mixed" in the last census.


              While they retain the right to flip out
              the tragedy card when it suits,
              there are times when it is deemed imperative
              to pin up the bunting and celebrate diversity.


              Considering it took "half-caste'' two centuries
              to be banished from the popular lexicon,
              it will be a good while before society is ready to
              leave the tortured mulatto wailing at the curbside.

              — © Guardian Newspapers 2005


              ******************************************************
              ******************************************************


              [[[In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
              john <reddgold_32@y...> wrote:

              I watched the movie hotel rwanda the other day on
              my netflix.It was very moving and great acting...

              The lady that played his wife in the movie ... is sophie okonedo
              ... an mgm or fgm from britain england...she is of nigerian and
              european jewish background.She might be biracial,if not mgm.

              This movie htel rwanda is based on a true life story.]]]
            • wintyreeve@aol.com
              Hello Friends- Haven t seen Hotel Rwanda yet... About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this hotel in Rwanda that was still in business
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                Hello Friends-
                 
                Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet... About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war. The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too. One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too. Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too. Many African women have gotten pregnant either as a result of rape or prostitution.
                 
                My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!) I will see if I can find more articles on this topic. I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa. This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper. Often the attacks happen while the Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms. She gave birth to a baby with brown skin, curly blonde hair and light colored eyes. Some of these children are supported, especially if the family feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened. Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts. Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives no support for the family and is basically forced to fend for herself while living on the streets.
                 
                I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!) Lynn
                 
              • j s
                How is this differant from rape perpetrated by a local of the same racial/ethnic background? One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now is
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                  How is this differant from rape perpetrated by a local of the same racial/ethnic background? One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now is by HIV infected men that believe they can be cured by having sex with a virgin - usually before she's reached puberty.
                  To me, rape is rape. 

                  wintyreeve@... wrote:
                  Hello Friends-
                   
                  Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet... About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war. The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too. One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too. Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too. Many African women have gotten pregnant either as a result of rape or prostitution.
                   
                  My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!) I will see if I can find more articles on this topic. I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa. This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper. Often the attacks happen while the Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms. She gave birth to a baby with brown skin, curly blonde hair and light colored eyes. Some of these children are supported, especially if the family feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened. Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts. Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives no support for the family and is basically forced to fend for herself while living on the streets.
                   
                  I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!) Lynn
                   

                  __________________________________________________
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                • multiracialbookclub
                  The statement you made that rape-is-rape is most certainly correct! (In additon, I just wanted to add that rape is an act of complete violence and not an
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                    The statement you made that "rape-is-rape"
                    is most certainly correct!
                    (In additon, I just wanted to add that
                    rape is an 'act of complete violence'
                    and not an 'act of sex' at all.)

                    One difference I do see in the two examples
                    you both have provided regarding the types
                    of rapes occuring in that sector of the world,
                    however, is that generally women and children
                    of a war-torn area do expect to receive
                    at least some measurement-of-safety when
                    in the care of a trained-'UN Peacekeeper'
                    (as opposed to finding themsleves in the hands of
                    some ignorant, superstitious individual who they
                    already perceive as violent or potentially so and
                    warned to do everything on their power to avoid.)

                    When I look at the scenarios that you both have
                    presented, I tend to get an image in my mind of the
                    'UN Peacekeeper'-rapist as having been sort of like the
                    acquaintance -rapist, marital-rapist or incestuous-rapist
                    (i.e. the person is attacked by someone that most
                    people in any society would assumed they could trust)
                    --- while those who attack these women and children
                    'on the streets' would seem more akin to the
                    image of "the guy in the dark alley or behind
                    a tree waiting to grab adn attack someone"
                    (i.e. he person is attacked by someone they have
                    already been pre-warned to be on the look-out
                    for and to avoid as much as is possible).

                    Either way, like you said, "rape-is-rape" -- and
                    thus, the violence against vulnerable-individuals
                    (from numerous sources -- whether it comes from
                    someone they thought they could trust or from
                    someone they were warned and tried to avoid) seems
                    to be epidemic and has to be addressed and stopped.

                    The women and children of the third world
                    (and in many parts of the industrialized-nations)
                    are often simply perceived as 'a burden' and/or
                    'an object' (i.e. 'a thing' that can be owned,
                    traded and treated in any way one prefers).

                    One of the reasons that violence against them
                    --(((by just about every group imaginable and
                    ranging from domestic assault, to sexual
                    assualts, to genital mutilation, to dowry
                    killings...where brides are set on fire
                    while still alive because the groom's
                    family has yet to receive a dowry))---
                    is so common -- is partly because they are
                    not perceived as 'worthy' of their full rights
                    as human beings and partly those in power live
                    lives of luxury at the expense of the majority.

                    In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                    j s <creolescience@y...> wrote:

                    How is this differant from rape perpetrated by
                    a local of the same racial/ethnic background?
                    One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now
                    is by HIV infected men that believe they can be cured by having
                    sex with a virgin - usually before she's reached puberty.
                    To me, rape is rape.

                    wintyreeve@... wrote:
                    Hello Friends-

                    Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet...
                    About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this
                    hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war.
                    The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too.
                    One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN
                    Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel
                    as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too.
                    Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too.
                    Many African women have gotten pregnant
                    either as a result of rape or prostitution.

                    My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!)
                    I will see if I can find more articles on this topic.
                    I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual
                    attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa.
                    This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she
                    was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper.
                    Often the attacks happen while the
                    Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms.
                    She gave birth to a baby with brown skin,
                    curly blonde hair and light colored eyes.
                    Some of these children are supported, especially if the family
                    feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened.
                    Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts.
                    Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives
                    no support for the family and is basically forced
                    to fend for herself while living on the streets.

                    I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!)

                    Lynn
                  • multiracialbookclub
                    Listed below are some links to statments made by the United Nations (UN) on the issues concerning and rights of women and children.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                      Listed below are some links to statments made
                      by the United Nations (UN) on the issues
                      concerning and rights of women and children.

                      http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_armedconflict.html
                      http://www.un.org/rights/dpi1772e.htm
                      http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/women/engl-wmn.html
                      http://www.unicef.org/crc/crc.htm

                      One wonders how strongly efforts are made to
                      address said issues and enforce said rights.

                      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                      "multiracialbookclub" <soaptalk@h...> wrote:

                      The statement you made that "rape-is-rape"
                      is most certainly correct!
                      (In additon, I just wanted to add that
                      rape is an 'act of complete violence'
                      and not an 'act of sex' at all.)

                      One difference I do see in the two examples
                      you both have provided regarding the types
                      of rapes occuring in that sector of the world,
                      however, is that generally women and children
                      of a war-torn area do expect to receive
                      at least some measurement-of-safety when
                      in the care of a trained-'UN Peacekeeper'
                      (as opposed to finding themsleves in the hands of
                      some ignorant, superstitious individual who they
                      already perceive as violent or potentially so and
                      warned to do everything on their power to avoid.)

                      When I look at the scenarios that you both have
                      presented, I tend to get an image in my mind of the
                      'UN Peacekeeper'-rapist as having been sort of like the
                      acquaintance -rapist, marital-rapist or incestuous-rapist
                      (i.e. the person is attacked by someone that most
                      people in any society would assumed they could trust)
                      --- while those who attack these women and children
                      'on the streets' would seem more akin to the
                      image of "the guy in the dark alley or behind
                      a tree waiting to grab adn attack someone"
                      (i.e. he person is attacked by someone they have
                      already been pre-warned to be on the look-out
                      for and to avoid as much as is possible).

                      Either way, like you said, "rape-is-rape" -- and
                      thus, the violence against vulnerable-individuals
                      (from numerous sources -- whether it comes from
                      someone they thought they could trust or from
                      someone they were warned and tried to avoid) seems
                      to be epidemic and has to be addressed and stopped.

                      The women and children of the third world
                      (and in many parts of the industrialized-nations)
                      are often simply perceived as 'a burden' and/or
                      'an object' (i.e. 'a thing' that can be owned,
                      traded and treated in any way one prefers).

                      One of the reasons that violence against them
                      --(((by just about every group imaginable and
                      ranging from domestic assault, to sexual
                      assualts, to genital mutilation, to dowry
                      killings...where brides are set on fire
                      while still alive because the groom's
                      family has yet to receive a dowry))---
                      is so common -- is partly because they are
                      not perceived as 'worthy' of their full rights
                      as human beings and partly those in power live
                      lives of luxury at the expense of the majority.

                      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                      j s <creolescience@y...> wrote:

                      How is this differant from rape perpetrated by
                      a local of the same racial/ethnic background?
                      One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now
                      is by HIV infected men that believe they can be cured by having
                      sex with a virgin - usually before she's reached puberty.
                      To me, rape is rape.

                      wintyreeve@... wrote:
                      Hello Friends-

                      Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet...
                      About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this
                      hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war.
                      The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too.
                      One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN
                      Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel
                      as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too.
                      Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too.
                      Many African women have gotten pregnant
                      either as a result of rape or prostitution.

                      My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!)
                      I will see if I can find more articles on this topic.
                      I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual
                      attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa.
                      This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she
                      was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper.
                      Often the attacks happen while the
                      Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms.
                      She gave birth to a baby with brown skin,
                      curly blonde hair and light colored eyes.
                      Some of these children are supported, especially if the family
                      feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened.
                      Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts.
                      Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives
                      no support for the family and is basically forced
                      to fend for herself while living on the streets.

                      I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!)

                      Lynn
                    • j s
                      I understand the issue with the Peacekeepers, but really they are just soldiers from any number of countries and therefore capable of the same acts as any
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                        I understand the issue with the Peacekeepers, but really they are just soldiers from any number of countries and therefore capable of the same acts as any soldier could regardless of nationality. I guess to me it almost seemed like an example of a racially dynamic situation of evil Europeans once again exploiting and harming the defenseless Africans and I just wanted to redirect attention to the fact that ethnicity or skin color doesn't somehow make violent criminal behavior either better or worse - the focus should be upon the act.

                        multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@...> wrote:
                        Listed below are some links to statments made
                        by the United Nations (UN) on the issues
                        concerning and rights of women and children.

                        http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_armedconflict.html
                        http://www.un.org/rights/dpi1772e.htm
                        http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/women/engl-wmn.html
                        http://www.unicef.org/crc/crc.htm

                        One wonders how strongly efforts are made to
                        address said issues and enforce said rights.

                        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                        "multiracialbookclub" <soaptalk@h...> wrote:

                        The statement you made that "rape-is-rape"
                        is most certainly correct!
                        (In additon, I just wanted to add that
                        rape is an 'act of complete violence'
                        and not an 'act of sex' at all.)

                        One difference I do see in the two examples
                        you both have provided regarding the types
                        of rapes occuring in that sector of the world,
                        however, is that generally women and children
                        of a war-torn area do expect to receive
                        at least some measurement-of-safety when
                        in the care of a trained-'UN Peacekeeper'
                        (as opposed to finding themsleves in the hands of
                        some ignorant, superstitious individual who they
                        already perceive as violent or potentially so and
                        warned to do everything on their power to avoid.)

                        When I look at the scenarios that you both have
                        presented, I tend to get an image in my mind of the
                        'UN Peacekeeper'-rapist as having been sort of like the
                        acquaintance -rapist, marital-rapist or incestuous-rapist
                        (i.e. the person is attacked by someone that most
                        people in any society would assumed they could trust)
                        --- while those who attack these women and children
                        'on the streets' would seem more akin to the
                        image of "the guy in the dark alley or behind
                        a tree waiting to grab adn attack someone"
                        (i.e. he person is attacked by someone they have
                        already been pre-warned to be on the look-out
                        for and to avoid as much as is possible).

                        Either way, like you said, "rape-is-rape" -- and
                        thus, the violence against vulnerable-individuals
                        (from numerous sources -- whether it comes from
                        someone they thought they could trust or from
                        someone they were warned and tried to avoid) seems
                        to be epidemic and has to be addressed and stopped.

                        The women and children of the third world
                        (and in many parts of the industrialized-nations)
                        are often simply perceived as 'a burden' and/or
                        'an object' (i.e. 'a thing' that can be owned,
                        traded and treated in any way one prefers).

                        One of the reasons that violence against them
                        --(((by just about every group imaginable and
                        ranging from domestic assault, to sexual
                        assualts, to genital mutilation, to dowry
                        killings...where brides are set on fire
                        while still alive because the groom's
                        family has yet to receive a dowry))---
                        is so common -- is partly because they are
                        not perceived as 'worthy' of their full rights
                        as human beings and partly those in power live
                        lives of luxury at the expense of the majority.

                        In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                        j s <creolescience@y...> wrote:

                        How is this differant from rape perpetrated by
                        a local of the same racial/ethnic background?
                        One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now
                        is by HIV infected men that believe they can be cured by having
                        sex with a virgin - usually before she's reached puberty.
                        To me, rape is rape.

                        wintyreeve@... wrote:
                        Hello Friends-

                        Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet...
                        About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this
                        hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war.
                        The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too.
                        One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN
                        Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel
                        as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too.
                        Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too.
                        Many African women have gotten pregnant
                        either as a result of rape or prostitution.

                        My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!)
                        I will see if I can find more articles on this topic.
                        I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual
                        attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa.
                        This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she
                        was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper.
                        Often the attacks happen while the
                        Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms.
                        She gave birth to a baby with brown skin,
                        curly blonde hair and light colored eyes.
                        Some of these children are supported, especially if the family
                        feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened.
                        Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts.
                        Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives
                        no support for the family and is basically forced
                        to fend for herself while living on the streets.

                        I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!)

                        Lynn







                        Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                      • john
                        That explains some of the complexion changes I see in some of the 10 yr old children in africa. wintyreeve@aol.com wrote:Hello Friends- Haven t seen Hotel
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                          That explains some of the complexion changes I see in some of the 10 yr old children in africa.

                          wintyreeve@... wrote:
                          Hello Friends-
                           
                          Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet... About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war. The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too. One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too. Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too. Many African women have gotten pregnant either as a result of rape or prostitution.
                           
                          My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!) I will see if I can find more articles on this topic. I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa. This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper. Often the attacks happen while the Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms. She gave birth to a baby with brown skin, curly blonde hair and light colored eyes. Some of these children are supported, especially if the family feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened. Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts. Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives no support for the family and is basically forced to fend for herself while living on the streets.
                           
                          I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!) Lynn
                           


                          Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                        • multiracialbookclub
                          Excellent pooints again, Jeff -- and I agree 100%! Like you said earlier rape is rape and although the rapists may employ different tactics -- as noted in
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                            Excellent pooints again, Jeff -- and I agree 100%!

                            Like you said earlier "rape is rape" and although
                            the rapists may employ different tactics --
                            as noted in examples provided below -- their
                            behavior reveals them as the violent criminals
                            that they are and the nationality of these violent
                            offenders does not change the situation at all !

                            Again, excellent points!

                            In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                            j s <creolescience@y...> wrote:

                            I understand the issue with the Peacekeepers, but really they are
                            just soldiers from any number of countries and therefore capable
                            of the same acts as any soldier could regardless of nationality.
                            I guess to me it almost seemed like an example of a racially
                            dynamic situation of evil Europeans once again exploiting and
                            harming the defenseless Africans and I just wanted to redirect
                            attention to the fact that ethnicity or skin color doesn't
                            somehow make violent criminal behavior either better
                            or worse - the focus should be upon the act.

                            multiracialbookclub wrote:

                            Listed below are some links to statments made
                            by the United Nations (UN) on the issues
                            concerning and rights of women and children.

                            http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_armedconflict.html
                            http://www.un.org/rights/dpi1772e.htm
                            http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/women/engl-wmn.html
                            http://www.unicef.org/crc/crc.htm

                            One wonders how strongly efforts are made to
                            address said issues and enforce said rights.

                            In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                            "multiracialbookclub" wrote:

                            The statement you made that "rape-is-rape"
                            is most certainly correct!
                            (In additon, I just wanted to add that
                            rape is an 'act of complete violence'
                            and not an 'act of sex' at all.)

                            One difference I do see in the two examples
                            you both have provided regarding the types
                            of rapes occuring in that sector of the world,
                            however, is that generally women and children
                            of a war-torn area do expect to receive
                            at least some measurement-of-safety when
                            in the care of a trained-'UN Peacekeeper'
                            (as opposed to finding themsleves in the hands of
                            some ignorant, superstitious individual who they
                            already perceive as violent or potentially so and
                            warned to do everything on their power to avoid.)

                            When I look at the scenarios that you both have
                            presented, I tend to get an image in my mind of the
                            'UN Peacekeeper'-rapist as having been sort of like the
                            acquaintance -rapist, marital-rapist or incestuous-rapist
                            (i.e. the person is attacked by someone that most
                            people in any society would assumed they could trust)
                            --- while those who attack these women and children
                            'on the streets' would seem more akin to the
                            image of "the guy in the dark alley or behind
                            a tree waiting to grab adn attack someone"
                            (i.e. he person is attacked by someone they have
                            already been pre-warned to be on the look-out
                            for and to avoid as much as is possible).

                            Either way, like you said, "rape-is-rape" -- and
                            thus, the violence against vulnerable-individuals
                            (from numerous sources -- whether it comes from
                            someone they thought they could trust or from
                            someone they were warned and tried to avoid) seems
                            to be epidemic and has to be addressed and stopped.

                            The women and children of the third world
                            (and in many parts of the industrialized-nations)
                            are often simply perceived as 'a burden' and/or
                            'an object' (i.e. 'a thing' that can be owned,
                            traded and treated in any way one prefers).

                            One of the reasons that violence against them
                            --(((by just about every group imaginable and
                            ranging from domestic assault, to sexual
                            assualts, to genital mutilation, to dowry
                            killings...where brides are set on fire
                            while still alive because the groom's
                            family has yet to receive a dowry))---
                            is so common -- is partly because they are
                            not perceived as 'worthy' of their full rights
                            as human beings and partly those in power live
                            lives of luxury at the expense of the majority.

                            In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                            j s <creolescience@y...> wrote:

                            How is this differant from rape perpetrated by
                            a local of the same racial/ethnic background?
                            One of the most widespread sources of rape in Africa right now
                            is by HIV infected men that believe they can be cured by having
                            sex with a virgin - usually before she's reached puberty.
                            To me, rape is rape.

                            wintyreeve@... wrote:

                            Hello Friends-

                            Haven't seen "Hotel Rwanda" yet...
                            About a year ago I read an article in the newspaper about this
                            hotel in Rwanda that was still in business despite the war.
                            The hotel used to be a base for the rebels too.
                            One of the interesting parts of the article said that UN
                            Peacekeepers attracted prositution, and they used the hotel
                            as a brothel and also did alot of drinking/partying there too.
                            Sexual attacks by European Peacekeepers was prevalent too.
                            Many African women have gotten pregnant
                            either as a result of rape or prostitution.

                            My AOL wont let me get on the web but when I fix it (arggghh!)
                            I will see if I can find more articles on this topic.
                            I saw a TV news show also cover the rape and sexual
                            attacks of women by UN Peacekeepers stationed in Africa.
                            This 13 year old girl was ambushed while she
                            was walking home, and raped by a Peacekeeper.
                            Often the attacks happen while the
                            Peacekeepers are wearing their uniforms.
                            She gave birth to a baby with brown skin,
                            curly blonde hair and light colored eyes.
                            Some of these children are supported, especially if the family
                            feels anger or a sense of injustice about what happened.
                            Other children, and their mothers and considered outcasts.
                            Once the woman is considered an outcast, she receives
                            no support for the family and is basically forced
                            to fend for herself while living on the streets.

                            I'll be back....(hehe spoken in an Austrian MGM accent!)

                            Lynn
                          • wintyreeve@aol.com
                            Excellent pooints again, Jeff -- and I agree 100%! Like you said earlier rape is rape and although the rapists may employ different tactics -- as noted in
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                              Excellent pooints again, Jeff -- and I agree 100%!

                              Like you said earlier "rape is rape" and although
                              the rapists may employ different tactics --
                              as noted in examples provided below -- their
                              behavior reveals them as the violent criminals
                              that they are and the nationality of these violent
                              offenders does not change the situation at all !

                              Again, excellent points!
                               
                              I agree with both statements, too. HOWEVER the nationality of the UN Peackeepers in itself represents a diverse population--not all are European. So in my statements I did not mean to imply the "evil white" stereotype nor did I mean to imply that race had anything to do with sexual violence. There are widespread accounts of rape by UN Peacekeepers in Africa, that is a fact. As a result, many women have become pregnant and given birth to multiracial children, that is a fact. I have found very little, almost no, information on the lives of these children or how these children are being treated in their own cultures. These children mostly have been abandoned by the fathers, and the mothers are traumatized. Most are children growing up in poverty and areas horrifically affected by war. Their ethnicity is something to take note of for several important reasons-
                              1) How will the homeland of the UN Peacekeeper treat the children of the raped mother? How will their culture adapt or react to these new members of their society? How will the laws of the respective countries treat or care for these children?
                              2) If the fathers cannot be identified or abandon the children then it must be the responsibility of the UN to care for these children.
                              3) The UN, frankly, seems to be a mess.
                              4) These children are abandoned by the father, who committed a violent act against the mother. The mother is traumatized. If the children are not accepted by their respective socities, then what is their survival like? OR how does a society accept and integrate these children?
                              5) Race is so embedded in our daily lives and society--it will also impact these children. In areas of civil war, what will these children represent? In areas linked by clan ties, how will these children fit in? In orphanages, will these children be adopted elsewhere and if so, will they ever know of their history?
                               
                              There is so much involved...that I think this topic deserves some serious thought. The UN and its nations the Peace Keepers represent have alot to deal with. Looking at ourselves, as a multiracial group and the experiences and history of our lives, maybe we can shed some new ideas or insights on this issue? Those thoughts and ideas, in turn, can be passed onto representatives to perhaps help this situation or at least bring enough attention so these children get the support and assistance they deserve. Or am I being too idealistic?
                               
                              Just a Thought ~ Lynn
                            • multiracialbookclub
                              Hi Lynn, Just wanted to state that I feel that the points that you were making in your posts came across very clear and I m sure that, like me, the people on
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
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                                Hi Lynn,

                                Just wanted to state that I feel that the points that you were
                                making in your posts came across very clear and I'm sure that,
                                like me, the people on the board did not feel that you were
                                attempting to in any way associate 'sexual violence' with
                                the various racial compositions of the UN Peacekeepers.

                                In fact, it seemed to me that you were making it clear
                                that the biggest betrayal of the people of these war-torn
                                nations is that these "Peacekeepers" are allegedly placed
                                there to bring about peace and stability and instead some
                                of them have decided to betray said mission and to use their
                                positions of power to violently assault women and children.

                                Again, I think that the motive and message of your
                                posting was very clear and appreciate your sharing it.

                                Thanks also for the questions you have
                                presented in your most recent posting.

                                These are important issues that need to be
                                addressed, discussed and, if possible, remedied.

                                wintyreeve@a... wrote:

                                <<<Excellent pooints again, Jeff -- and I agree 100%!
                                Like you said earlier "rape is rape" and although
                                the rapists may employ different tactics --
                                as noted in examples provided below -- their
                                behavior reveals them as the violent criminals
                                that they are and the nationality of these violent
                                offenders does not change the situation at all !
                                Again, excellent points!>>>

                                I agree with both statements, too.
                                HOWEVER the nationality of the UN Peackeepers in itself
                                represents a diverse population--not all are European.
                                So in my statements I did not mean to imply the
                                "evil white" stereotype nor did I mean to imply
                                that race had anything to do with sexual violence.
                                There are widespread accounts of rape by
                                UN Peacekeepers in Africa, that is a fact.
                                As a result, many women have become pregnant and
                                given birth to multiracial children, that is a fact.
                                I have found very little, almost no, information on
                                the lives of these children or how these children
                                are being treated in their own cultures.
                                These children mostly have been abandoned by
                                the fathers, and the mothers are traumatized.
                                Most are children growing up in poverty
                                and areas horrifically affected by war.
                                Their ethnicity is something to take
                                note of for several important reasons-
                                1) How will the homeland of the UN Peacekeeper
                                treat the children of the raped mother?
                                How will their culture adapt or react
                                to these new members of their society?
                                How will the laws of the respective
                                countries treat or care for these children?
                                2) If the fathers cannot be identified or abandon the children then
                                it must be the responsibility of the UN to care for these children.
                                3) The UN, frankly, seems to be a mess.
                                4) These children are abandoned by the father,
                                who committed a violent act against the mother.
                                The mother is traumatized.
                                If the children are not accepted by their respective
                                socities, then what is their survival like?
                                OR how does a society accept and integrate these children?
                                5) Race is so embedded in our daily lives and
                                society--it will also impact these children.
                                In areas of civil war, what will these children represent?
                                In areas linked by clan ties, how will these children fit in?
                                In orphanages, will these children be adopted elsewhere
                                and if so, will they ever know of their history?

                                There is so much involved...that I think
                                this topic deserves some serious thought.
                                The UN and its nations the Peace Keepers
                                represent have alot to deal with.
                                Looking at ourselves, as a multiracial group and the
                                experiences and history of our lives, maybe we can
                                shed some new ideas or insights on this issue?
                                Those thoughts and ideas, in turn, can be passed onto representatives
                                to perhaps help this situation or at least bring enough attention
                                so these children get the support and assistance they deserve.
                                Or am I being too idealistic?

                                Just a Thought ~ Lynn
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