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There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

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  • multiracialbookclub
    Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum. ... Statement(s): (from wergifts2
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 21, 2006
    • 0 Attachment

      Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
      thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Statement(s):       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h...>)



       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                             
      is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.


       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


      Question:    
      (from "chief_mulatto_native" <zacariascaramelo@...>):

      I agree with you, but what about Frank
      Sweet's view that
      there are light skinned
      Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h...>)


      Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
      by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:


      Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
      no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

      Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
      his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
      himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

      The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
      scientist
      Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
      way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
      also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
      the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

      Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
      biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
      Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
      about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
      found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
      the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
      done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
      (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

      Cavelli-Sforza's team of the world's top experts in the
      field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

      ALL of
      continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
      the multiple generations of their various families
      .

      They have proven the same thing in regards to

      North African, East African, Polynesian
      and Aboriginal populations as well.

      In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
      and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
      is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
      chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
      MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
      admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
      of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
      lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
      refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
      composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
      on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

      (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
      has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

      In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
      the rather
      obvious
      Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

      Here is more information to support the studies,
      the claims and the conclusions of
      the world's leading
      Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
      Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
      of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
      world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
      to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
      groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

      [[[[

      Most AAs have 20-30% European
      & +25% Amerindian Admixture


      The figures listed below clearly support data
      repeatedly presented that says most people
      who are
      born to two parents who are both
      members of the largely `Multi'-racially-Mixed
      `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
      the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
      .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
      European and a +25% Amerindian
      ancestral blood lineage admixture.

      [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially-Mixed `Ethnic'
      group known as African-American (AA) is
      not
      the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
      group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


      Some data is available via an internet link – other
      may require looking at a book or research thesis.

      THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
      that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs


      *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
      these same groups; estimates of the
      European-American genetic contribution to the
      African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
      …

      In addition, admixture between African-Americans
      and European-Americans may have occurred to
      different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
      contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
      of genetic variation in African-American populations.

      Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
      U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
      as they are defined primarily by cultural
      criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

      27.5%-33.6% of African-American
      Y-chromosomes were determined to
      be of European-American ancestry
      …
      the resulting estimate of the European-American
      genetic contribution to African-Americans was
      32.6%, which is not significantly different
      from the estimate of 33.6%...

      We found no significant heterogeneity among
      regional groups of African-Americans …........
      the amount of admixture of African-Americans
      with European-Americans is thought to have
      varied across different geographic regions
      of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
      admixture observed in Northern groups …
      other studies find a more complex relationship between
      the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

      Our estimates of the European-American
      genetic contribution to African-Americans
      are quite similar across regional geographic
      groups and do not vary significantly …

      A further complicating factor is migration among
      geographic regions within the United States …
      migration of African-Americans within
      the United States may have been extensive …

      The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
      in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
      types may thus reflect this …

      Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
      have generally found ~20% European genetic
      contribution to African-American populations …


      Our results indicate substantially
      higher contribution of European-American
      Y-chromosome
      (27.5%-33.6%) … this
      disparity
      in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
      versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
      contribution of European-American men

      than women to African-Americans
      during the slavery period.


      Our results support the view that the dynamics
      of the European-American genetic contribution
      to African-Americans is more complicated than
      a simple north-south division would suggest …

      The European-American genetic
      contribution to African-Americans was
      estimated by two different methods
      .

      --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
      that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
      as the molecular distance among alleles …

      --- The second method is an assignment test …
      calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

      SOURCE:
      [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I.,
      Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
      Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
      microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
      Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
      Anthropological measurement:
      The mismeasure of African Americans.
      Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
      Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
      Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
      D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
      Estimating African American admixture proportions
      by use of population-specific alleles.
      Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
      http://www.shouxi.net/journal/articleinfo.aspx?art_id=43735]]]]

      FACT:

      *****"African Americans, on the average,
      have … 30% European ancestry.
      Skin color is an imperfect measure …

      Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
      different racial groups have different rates
      of certain blood groups, allowing one to
      make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

      SOURCE:
      [[
      http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2699/is_0005/ai_2699000597]]

      And it is also recommended that people either
      purchase of pick up a copy from their local
      library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
      -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
      the world's leading geneticist and director
      of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

      – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
      European admixture found within
      the ancestral
      lineage of the average person who is a member
      of the African-American `ethnic' group.

      FACT:

      [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
      African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
      While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
      or even "multiracial," mulatto is still
      sometimes used to refer to people of
      mixed parentage and,
      despite its origin.]]

      SOURCE:
      http://www.tea-center.com/articles/African_American
      http://www.ranau.net/articles/African_Americans?mySession=dcfbc604d85635cd1bd4f54a0cf3933c
      http://www.1-bike.com/articles/African_American?mySession=267816c413c3b3960847c142399cbf87 ]]]

      Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
      the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
      in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
      group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

      [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
      was an expression of social status (value)
      of particular groups in society.

      Race was considered by the "White" elite
      as a natural distinction in human identity.

      Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
      counted as three-fifths of a person, and
      until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
      categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

      Early censuses did not count Indians unless
      they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
      did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

      The 1870 census classified the indigenous
      population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds".

      Only after 1924, when American Indians were
      given citizenship,
      they began to be classified in a
      single racial category according to the US census.

      The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
      "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
      under the term "colored") for free African descended
      people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
      term "Mulatto" was used again together with
      "Negro" to classify African descendents.

      The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
      classify admixed people in the US census
      supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
      of "Whites", which additionally contended that
      hybrid racial species were less fertile and
      had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

      For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
      defined as including anyone having
      any percentage of African blood.

      "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
      skin by census enumerators and was not
      based on genealogical history.

      It referred to people in whom the mixture
      of "White" and "Black" was visible.

      [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
      'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
      reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
      their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
      numeration if the census worker decided that they
      would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

      In addition, many people who were actually
      of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
      erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

      The 1890 census "refined"
      this admixed racial category:

      Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
      "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
      mulatto parent and the other white) and
      "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
      one Quadroon parent and the other White)
      to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

      The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
      and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
      census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

      Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
      for admixed populations was eventually
      substituted by "Non-White" categories based
      on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


      The 1930 US census stated that "a person
      of mixed White and Negro blood should be
      returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

      The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
      against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
      and "White" racial divide of the US population....

      It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
      was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

      From then until the 2000 census,
      racial classification in the United States did
      not give any room for multiracial classification.

      Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
      number of persons checked the "other"
      race category and specified that they
      belonged to multiple-race categories.…

      The concept of race based on ancestry in
      the US racial taxonomy and the absence
      of a multiracial category is likely to raise
      difficulties for many admixed people."]]

      SOURCE:

      http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X2004000300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------

      MORE COMMENTARY:

      [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
      African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

      While not as common as "mixed" or as
      "biracial," or even "multiracial," mulatto is
      still sometimes used to refer to people of
      mixed parentage and,
      despite its origin.]]

      SOURCE:

      http://www.tea-center.com/articles/African_American
      http://www.ranau.net/articles/African_Americans?mySession=dcfbc604d85635cd1bd4f54a0cf3933c
      http://www.1-bike.com/articles/African_American?mySession=267816c413c3b3960847c142399cbf87


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      "chief_mulatto_native" <zacariascaramelo@...> wrote:

      I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
      there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa?

      I want to hear your comment on that one.


      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                             
      is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.


       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"

    • tlbaker1
      Also, because one s skin is not very light or dark does not indicate that they are not mixed-race. A group of siblings can be born of the same two parents and
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 21, 2006
      • 0 Attachment

        Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
        does not indicate that they are not mixed-race.
        A group of siblings can be born of the same
        two parents and be of different shades.
        Mixed race people come in many different
        shades from very light to very dark.
        Genes have a mind of their own.

         

        Lynne

         


        From: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com ]
        On Behalf Of
        multiracialbookclub
        Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:29 PM
        To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Generation-Mixed] There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

         

        Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
        thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

        Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)



         Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

         Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

         Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

         Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                               the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


        Question:    
        (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

        I agree with you, but what about Frank
        Sweet's view that there are light skinned
        Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

        Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


        Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
        by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:


        Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
        no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

        Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
        his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
        himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

        The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
        scientist
        Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
        way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
        also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
        the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

        Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
        biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
        Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
        about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
        found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
        the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
        done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
        (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

        Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
        field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were
        ALL of
        continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
        the multiple generations of their various families
        .

        They have proven the same thing in regards to
        North African, East African, Polynesian
        and Aboriginal populations as well.

        In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
        and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
        is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
        chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
        MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
        admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
        of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
        lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
        refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
        composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
        on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

        (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
        has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

        In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
        the rather obvious
        Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

        Here is more information to support the studies,
        the claims and the conclusions of
        the world's leading
        Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
        Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
        of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
        world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
        to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
        groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

        [[[[

        Most AAs have 20-30% European
        & +25% Amerindian Admixture


        The figures listed below clearly support data
        repeatedly presented that says most people
        who are
        born to two parents who are both
        members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
        `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
        the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
        .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
        European and a +25% Amerindian
        ancestral blood lineage admixture.

        [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
        group known as African-American (AA) is
        not
        the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
        group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


        Some data is available via an internet link – other
        may require looking at a book or research thesis.

        THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
        that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

        *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
        these same groups; estimates of the
        European-American genetic contribution to the
        African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


        In addition, admixture between African-Americans
        and European-Americans may have occurred to
        different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
        contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
        of genetic variation in African-American populations.

        Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
        U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
        as they are defined primarily by cultural
        criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

        27.5%-33.6% of African-American
        Y-chromosomes were determined to
        be of European-American ancestry
        the resulting estimate of the European-American
        genetic contribution to African-Americans was
        32.6%, which is not significantly different
        from the estimate of 33.6%...

        We found no significant heterogeneity among
        regional groups of African-Americans …........
        the amount of admixture of African-Americans
        with European-Americans is thought to have
        varied across different geographic regions
        of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
        admixture observed in Northern groups …
        other studies find a more complex relationship between
        the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

        Our estimates of the European-American
        genetic contribution to African-Americans
        are quite similar across regional geographic
        groups and do not vary significantly …

        A further complicating factor is migration among
        geographic regions within the United States …
        migration of African-Americans within
        the United States may have been extensive …

        The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
        in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
        types may thus reflect this …

        Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
        have generally found ~20% European genetic
        contribution to African-American populations …


        Our results indicate substantially
        higher contribution of European-American
        Y-chromosome
        (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
        disparity
        in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
        versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
        contribution of European-American men

        than women to African-Americans
        during the slavery period.


        Our results support the view that the dynamics
        of the European-American genetic contribution
        to African-Americans is more complicated than
        a simple north-south division would suggest …

        The European-American genetic
        contribution to African-Americans was
        estimated by two different methods
        .

        --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
        that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
        as the molecular distance among alleles …

        --- The second method is an assignment test …
        calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

        SOURCE:
        [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
        Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
        Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
        microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
        Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
        Anthropological measurement:
        The mismeasure of African Americans.
        Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
        Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
        Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
        D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
        Estimating African American admixture proportions
        by use of population-specific alleles.
        Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
        http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

        FACT:

        *****"African Americans, on the average,
        have … 30% European ancestry.
        Skin color is an imperfect measure …

        Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
        different racial groups have different rates
        of certain blood groups, allowing one to
        make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

        SOURCE:
        [[
        http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

        And it is also recommended that people either
        purchase of pick up a copy from their local
        library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
        -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
        the world's leading geneticist and director
        of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

        – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
        European admixture found within
        the ancestral
        lineage of the average person who is a member
        of the African-American `ethnic' group.

        FACT:

        [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
        African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
        While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
        or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
        sometimes used to refer to people of
        mixed parentage and,
        despite its origin.]]

        SOURCE:
        http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
        http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
        http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

        Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
        the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
        in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
        group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

        ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

        [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
        was an expression of social status (value)
        of particular groups in society.

        Race was considered by the "White" elite
        as a natural distinction in human identity.

        Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
        counted as three-fifths of a person, and
        until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
        categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

        Early censuses did not count Indians unless
        they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
        did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

        The 1870 census classified the indigenous
        population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

        Only after 1924, when American Indians were
        given citizenship,
        they began to be classified in a
        single racial category according to the US census.

        The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
        "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
        under the term "colored") for free African descended
        people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
        term "Mulatto" was used again together with
        "Negro" to classify African descendents.

        The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
        classify admixed people in the US census
        supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
        of "Whites", which additionally contended that
        hybrid racial species were less fertile and
        had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

        For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
        defined as including anyone having
        any percentage of African blood.

        "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
        skin by census enumerators and was not
        based on genealogical history.

        It referred to people in whom the mixture
        of "White" and "Black" was visible.

        [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
        'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
        reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
        their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
        numeration if the census worker decided that they
        would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

        In addition, many people who were actually
        of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
        erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

        The 1890 census "refined"
        this admixed racial category:

        Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
        "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
        mulatto parent and the other white) and
        "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
        one Quadroon parent and the other White)
        to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

        The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
        and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
        census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

        Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
        for admixed populations was eventually
        substituted by "Non-White" categories based
        on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


        The 1930 US census stated that "a person
        of mixed White and Negro blood should be
        returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

        The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
        against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
        and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

        It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
        was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

        From then until the 2000 census,
        racial classification in the United States did
        not give any room for multiracial classification.

        Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
        number of persons checked the "other"
        race category and specified that they
        belonged to multiple-race categories.…

        The concept of race based on ancestry in
        the US racial taxonomy and the absence
        of a multiracial category is likely to raise
        difficulties for many admixed people."]]

        SOURCE:

        http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

        MORE COMMENTARY:

        [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
        African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored.

        While not as common as "mixed" or as
        "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
        still sometimes used to refer to people of
        mixed parentage and,
        despite its origin.]]

        SOURCE:

        http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
        http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

        http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

        "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

        I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
        there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

        I want to hear your comment on that one.


        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:

        (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

      • multiracialbookclub
        That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!! And I am in agreement with you, 100%!! Thanks for making mention of this fact !!! Related Link:
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 21, 2006
        • 0 Attachment

          That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
          And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

          Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


          Related Link:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1402 


          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
          "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


          Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
          does not indicate that they are not mixed-race.
          A group of siblings can be born of the same
          two parents and be of different shades.
          Mixed race people come in many different
          shades from very light to very dark.
          Genes have a mind of their own.

          Lynne



          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



          Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 

          thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


          Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


           Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

           Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

           Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                  is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                  Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

           Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                 the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


          Question:    
          (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

          I agree with you, but what about Frank
          Sweet's view that there are light skinned
          Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

          Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


          Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
          by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

          Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely

          no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

          Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
          his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
          himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

          The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is
          famed
          scientist
          Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza
          (who, by the
          way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
          also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
          the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

          Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
          biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
          Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
          about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
          found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

          Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
          the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
          done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
          (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

          Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
          field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

          ALL of
          continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
          the multiple generations of their various families
          .

          They have proven the same thing in regards to
          North African, East African, Polynesian

          and Aboriginal populations as well.

          In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
          and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
          is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
          chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
          MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
          admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
          of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
          lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
          refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

          Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
          composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
          on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

          (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
          has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

          In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
          the rather obvious
          Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

          Here is more information to support the studies,
          the claims and the conclusions of
          the world's leading
          Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
          Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
          of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
          world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
          to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
          groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

          [[[[

          Most AAs have 20-30% European
          & +25% Amerindian Admixture


          The figures listed below clearly support data
          repeatedly presented that says most people
          who are
          born to two parents who are both
          members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
          `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
          the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
          .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
          European and a +25% Amerindian
          ancestral blood lineage admixture.

          [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
          group known as African-American (AA) is
          not
          the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
          group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


          Some data is available via an internet link – other
          may require looking at a book or research thesis.

          THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
          that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

          *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
          these same groups; estimates of the
          European-American genetic contribution to the
          African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
          …

          In addition, admixture between African-Americans
          and European-Americans may have occurred to
          different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
          contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
          of genetic variation in African-American populations.

          Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
          U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
          as they are defined primarily by cultural
          criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

          27.5%-33.6% of African-American
          Y-chromosomes were determined to
          be of European-American ancestry
          …
          the resulting estimate of the European-American
          genetic contribution to African-Americans was
          32.6%, which is not significantly different
          from the estimate of 33.6%...

          We found no significant heterogeneity among
          regional groups of African-Americans …........
          the amount of admixture of African-Americans
          with European-Americans is thought to have
          varied across different geographic regions
          of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
          admixture observed in Northern groups …
          other studies find a more complex relationship between
          the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

          Our estimates of the European-American
          genetic contribution to African-Americans
          are quite similar across regional geographic
          groups and do not vary significantly …

          A further complicating factor is migration among
          geographic regions within the United States …
          migration of African-Americans within
          the United States may have been extensive …

          The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
          in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
          types may thus reflect this …

          Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
          have generally found ~20% European genetic
          contribution to African-American populations …


          Our results indicate substantially
          higher contribution of European-American
          Y-chromosome
          (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
          disparity
          in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
          versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
          contribution of European-American men

          than women to African-Americans
          during the slavery period.


          Our results support the view that the dynamics
          of the European-American genetic contribution
          to African-Americans is more complicated than
          a simple north-south division would suggest …

          The European-American genetic
          contribution to African-Americans was
          estimated by two different methods
          .

          --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
          that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
          as the molecular distance among alleles …

          --- The second method is an assignment test …
          calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

          SOURCE:
          [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
          Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
          Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
          microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
          Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
          Anthropological measurement:
          The mismeasure of African Americans.
          Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
          Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
          Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
          D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
          Estimating African American admixture proportions
          by use of population-specific alleles.
          Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
          http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

          FACT:

          *****"African Americans, on the average,
          have … 30% European ancestry.
          Skin color is an imperfect measure …

          Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
          different racial groups have different rates
          of certain blood groups, allowing one to
          make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

          SOURCE:
          [[
          http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

          And it is also recommended that people either
          purchase of pick up a copy from their local
          library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
          -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
          the world's leading geneticist and director
          of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

          – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
          European admixture found within
          the ancestral
          lineage of the average person who is a member
          of the African-American `ethnic' group.

          FACT:

          [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
          African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
          While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
          or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
          sometimes used to refer to people of
          mixed parentage and,
          despite its origin.]]

          SOURCE:
          http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
          http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
          http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

          Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
          the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
          in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
          group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

          ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

          [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
          was an expression of social status (value)
          of particular groups in society.

          Race was considered by the "White" elite
          as a natural distinction in human identity.

          Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
          counted as three-fifths of a person, and
          until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
          categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

          Early censuses did not count Indians unless
          they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
          did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

          The 1870 census classified the indigenous
          population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

          Only after 1924, when American Indians were
          given citizenship,
          they began to be classified in a
          single racial category according to the US census.

          The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
          "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
          under the term "colored") for free African descended
          people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
          term "Mulatto" was used again together with
          "Negro" to classify African descendents.

          The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
          classify admixed people in the US census
          supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
          of "Whites", which additionally contended that
          hybrid racial species were less fertile and
          had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

          For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
          defined as including anyone having
          any percentage of African blood.

          "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
          skin by census enumerators and was not
          based on genealogical history.

          It referred to people in whom the mixture
          of "White" and "Black" was visible.

          [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
          'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
          reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
          their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
          numeration if the census worker decided that they
          would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

          In addition, many people who were actually
          of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
          erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

          The 1890 census "refined"
          this admixed racial category:

          Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
          "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
          mulatto parent and the other white) and
          "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
          one Quadroon parent and the other White)
          to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

          The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
          and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
          census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

          Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
          for admixed populations was eventually
          substituted by "Non-White" categories based
          on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


          The 1930 US census stated that "a person
          of mixed White and Negro blood should be
          returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

          The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
          against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
          and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

          It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
          was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

          From then until the 2000 census,
          racial classification in the United States did
          not give any room for multiracial classification.

          Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
          number of persons checked the "other"
          race category and specified that they
          belonged to multiple-race categories.…

          The concept of race based on ancestry in
          the US racial taxonomy and the absence
          of a multiracial category is likely to raise
          difficulties for many admixed people."]]

          SOURCE:

          http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

          MORE COMMENTARY:

          [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
          African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

          While not as common as "mixed" or as
          "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
          still sometimes used to refer to people of
          mixed parentage and,
          despite its origin.]]

          SOURCE:

          http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
          http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

          http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

          "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

          I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
          there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

          I want to hear your comment on that one.


          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


           Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

           Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
          .

           Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                  is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                  Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

           Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                 the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"

        • Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
          Thank you for this point! I am Multi-Generationally Mixed, and how I get treated by others, is usually cognate with how dark I am at any given time of the
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 21, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you for this point!
             
            I am Multi-Generationally Mixed, and how I
            get treated by others, is usually cognate with
            how dark I am at any given time of the year.
             
            Raven
             


            ----- Original Message ----

            Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



            That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
            And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

            Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


            Related Link:
            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
             


            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


            Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
            does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
            A group of siblings can be born of the same
            two parents and be of different shades.
            Mixed-Race people come in many different
            shades from very light to very dark.
            Genes have a mind of their own.

            Lynne



            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



            Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 

            thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


            Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


             Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

             Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

             Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                    is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                    Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

             Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                   the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


            Question:    
            (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

            I agree with you, but what about Frank
            Sweet's view that there are light skinned
            Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

            Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


            Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
            by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

            Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely

            no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

            Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
            his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
            himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

            The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is
            famed
            scientist
            Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza
            (who, by the
            way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
            also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
            the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

            Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
            biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
            Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
            about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
            found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

            Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
            the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
            done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
            (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

            Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
            field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

            ALL of
            continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
            the multiple generations of their various families
            .

            They have proven the same thing in regards to
            North African, East African, Polynesian

            and Aboriginal populations as well.

            In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
            and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
            is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
            chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
            MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
            admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
            of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
            lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
            refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

            Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
            composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
            on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

            (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
            has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

            In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
            the rather obvious
            Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

            Here is more information to support the studies,
            the claims and the conclusions of
            the world's leading
            Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
            Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
            of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
            world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
            to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
            groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

            [[[[

            Most AAs have 20-30% European
            & +25% Amerindian Admixture


            The figures listed below clearly support data
            repeatedly presented that says most people
            who are
            born to two parents who are both
            members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
            `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
            the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
            .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
            European and a +25% Amerindian
            ancestral blood lineage admixture.

            [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
            group known as African-American (AA) is
            not
            the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
            group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


            Some data is available via an internet link – other
            may require looking at a book or research thesis.

            THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
            that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

            *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
            these same groups; estimates of the
            European-American genetic contribution to the
            African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


            In addition, admixture between African-Americans
            and European-Americans may have occurred to
            different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
            contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
            of genetic variation in African-American populations.

            Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
            U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
            as they are defined primarily by cultural
            criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

            27.5%-33.6% of African-American
            Y-chromosomes were determined to
            be of European-American ancestry
            the resulting estimate of the European-American
            genetic contribution to African-Americans was
            32.6%, which is not significantly different
            from the estimate of 33.6%...

            We found no significant heterogeneity among
            regional groups of African-Americans …........
            the amount of admixture of African-Americans
            with European-Americans is thought to have
            varied across different geographic regions
            of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
            admixture observed in Northern groups …
            other studies find a more complex relationship between
            the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

            Our estimates of the European-American
            genetic contribution to African-Americans
            are quite similar across regional geographic
            groups and do not vary significantly …

            A further complicating factor is migration among
            geographic regions within the United States …
            migration of African-Americans within
            the United States may have been extensive …

            The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
            in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
            types may thus reflect this …

            Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
            have generally found ~20% European genetic
            contribution to African-American populations …


            Our results indicate substantially
            higher contribution of European-American
            Y-chromosome
            (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
            disparity
            in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
            versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
            contribution of European-American men

            than women to African-Americans
            during the slavery period.


            Our results support the view that the dynamics
            of the European-American genetic contribution
            to African-Americans is more complicated than
            a simple north-south division would suggest …

            The European-American genetic
            contribution to African-Americans was
            estimated by two different methods
            .

            --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
            that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
            as the molecular distance among alleles …

            --- The second method is an assignment test …
            calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

            SOURCE:
            [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
            Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
            Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
            microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
            Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
            Anthropological measurement:
            The mismeasure of African Americans.
            Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
            Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
            Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
            D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
            Estimating African American admixture proportions
            by use of population-specific alleles.
            Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
            http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

            FACT:

            *****"African Americans, on the average,
            have … 30% European ancestry.
            Skin color is an imperfect measure …

            Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
            different racial groups have different rates
            of certain blood groups, allowing one to
            make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

            SOURCE:
            [[
            http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

            And it is also recommended that people either
            purchase of pick up a copy from their local
            library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
            -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
            the world's leading geneticist and director
            of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

            – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
            European admixture found within
            the ancestral
            lineage of the average person who is a member
            of the African-American `ethnic' group.

            FACT:

            [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
            African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
            While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
            or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
            sometimes used to refer to people of
            mixed parentage and,
            despite its origin.]]

            SOURCE:
            http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
            http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
            http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

            Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
            the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
            in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
            group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

            ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

            [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
            was an expression of social status (value)
            of particular groups in society.

            Race was considered by the "White" elite
            as a natural distinction in human identity.

            Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
            counted as three-fifths of a person, and
            until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
            categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

            Early censuses did not count Indians unless
            they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
            did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

            The 1870 census classified the indigenous
            population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

            Only after 1924, when American Indians were
            given citizenship,
            they began to be classified in a
            single racial category according to the US census.

            The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
            "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
            under the term "colored") for free African descended
            people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
            term "Mulatto" was used again together with
            "Negro" to classify African descendents.

            The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
            classify admixed people in the US census
            supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
            of "Whites", which additionally contended that
            hybrid racial species were less fertile and
            had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

            For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
            defined as including anyone having
            any percentage of African blood.

            "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
            skin by census enumerators and was not
            based on genealogical history.

            It referred to people in whom the mixture
            of "White" and "Black" was visible.

            [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
            'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
            reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
            their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
            numeration if the census worker decided that they
            would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

            In addition, many people who were actually
            of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
            erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

            The 1890 census "refined"
            this admixed racial category:

            Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
            "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
            mulatto parent and the other white) and
            "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
            one Quadroon parent and the other White)
            to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

            The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
            and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
            census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

            Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
            for admixed populations was eventually
            substituted by "Non-White" categories based
            on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


            The 1930 US census stated that "a person
            of mixed White and Negro blood should be
            returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

            The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
            against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
            and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

            It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
            was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

            From then until the 2000 census,
            racial classification in the United States did
            not give any room for multiracial classification.

            Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
            number of persons checked the "other"
            race category and specified that they
            belonged to multiple-race categories.…

            The concept of race based on ancestry in
            the US racial taxonomy and the absence
            of a multiracial category is likely to raise
            difficulties for many admixed people."]]

            SOURCE:

            http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

            MORE COMMENTARY:

            [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
            African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored.

            While not as common as "mixed" or as
            "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
            still sometimes used to refer to people of
            mixed parentage and,
            despite its origin.]]

            SOURCE:

            http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
            http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

            http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

            "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

            I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
            there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

            I want to hear your comment on that one.


            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


             Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

             Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
            .

             Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                    is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                    Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

             Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                   the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"



          • tlbaker1
            Just want to be clear is all, LOLOL! I am not white skinned nor I am very dark either (some people consider me light skinned but I don t). My mother very light
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              Just want to be clear is all, LOLOL!

              I am not white skinned nor I am very dark either
              (some people consider me light skinned but I don't).
              My mother very light along w/few of her siblings and there
              are 2 there medium brown skinned born of the same parents.

              Lynne

               


              From: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com ]
              On Behalf Of
              multiracialbookclub
              Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 2:59 PM
              To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: There is no such thing as
              a "light-skinned Black "

               

              That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
              And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

              Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


              Related Link:
              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402 


              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
              "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


              Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
              does not indicate that they are not mixed-race.
              A group of siblings can be born of the same
              two parents and be of different shades.
              Mixed race people come in many different
              shades from very light to very dark.
              Genes have a mind of their own.

              Lynne


              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
              "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



              Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
              thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


              Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


               Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

               Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

               Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                      is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                      Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

               Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                     the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


              Question:    
              (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

              I agree with you, but what about Frank
              Sweet's view that there are light skinned
              Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

              Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


              Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
              by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

              Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
              no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

              Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
              his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
              himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

              The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
              scientist
              Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
              way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
              also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
              the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

              Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
              biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
              Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
              about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
              found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

              Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
              the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
              done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
              (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

              Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
              field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

              ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
              the multiple generations of their various families.

              They have proven the same thing in regards to
              North African, East African, Polynesian

              and Aboriginal populations as well.

              In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
              and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
              is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
              chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
              MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
              admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
              of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
              lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
              refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

              Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
              composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
              on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

              (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
              has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

              In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
              the rather obvious
              Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

              Here is more information to support the studies,
              the claims and the conclusions of
              the world's leading
              Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
              Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
              of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
              world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
              to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
              groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

              [[[[

              Most AAs have 20-30% European
              & +25% Amerindian Admixture


              The figures listed below clearly support data
              repeatedly presented that says most people
              who are
              born to two parents who are both
              members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
              `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
              the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
              .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
              European and a +25% Amerindian
              ancestral blood lineage admixture.

              [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
              group known as African-American (AA) is
              not
              the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
              group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


              Some data is available via an internet link – other
              may require looking at a book or research thesis.

              THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
              that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

              *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
              these same groups; estimates of the
              European-American genetic contribution to the
              African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


              In addition, admixture between African-Americans
              and European-Americans may have occurred to
              different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
              contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
              of genetic variation in African-American populations.

              Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
              U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
              as they are defined primarily by cultural
              criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

              27.5%-33.6% of African-American
              Y-chromosomes were determined to
              be of European-American ancestry
              the resulting estimate of the European-American
              genetic contribution to African-Americans was
              32.6%, which is not significantly different
              from the estimate of 33.6%...

              We found no significant heterogeneity among
              regional groups of African-Americans …........
              the amount of admixture of African-Americans
              with European-Americans is thought to have
              varied across different geographic regions
              of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
              admixture observed in Northern groups …
              other studies find a more complex relationship between
              the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

              Our estimates of the European-American
              genetic contribution to African-Americans
              are quite similar across regional geographic
              groups and do not vary significantly …

              A further complicating factor is migration among
              geographic regions within the United States …
              migration of African-Americans within
              the United States may have been extensive …

              The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
              in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
              types may thus reflect this …

              Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
              have generally found ~20% European genetic
              contribution to African-American populations …


              Our results indicate substantially
              higher contribution of European-American
              Y-chromosome
              (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
              disparity
              in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
              versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
              contribution of European-American men

              than women to African-Americans
              during the slavery period.


              Our results support the view that the dynamics
              of the European-American genetic contribution
              to African-Americans is more complicated than
              a simple north-south division would suggest …

              The European-American genetic
              contribution to African-Americans was
              estimated by two different methods
              .

              --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
              that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
              as the molecular distance among alleles …

              --- The second method is an assignment test …
              calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

              SOURCE:
              [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
              Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
              Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
              microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
              Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
              Anthropological measurement:
              The mismeasure of African Americans.
              Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
              Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
              Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
              D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
              Estimating African American admixture proportions
              by use of population-specific alleles.
              Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
              http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

              FACT:

              *****"African Americans, on the average,
              have … 30% European ancestry.
              Skin color is an imperfect measure …

              Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
              different racial groups have different rates
              of certain blood groups, allowing one to
              make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

              SOURCE:
              [[
              http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

              And it is also recommended that people either
              purchase of pick up a copy from their local
              library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
              -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
              the world's leading geneticist and director
              of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

              – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
              European admixture found within
              the ancestral
              lineage of the average person who is a member
              of the African-American `ethnic' group.

              FACT:

              [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
              African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
              While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
              or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
              sometimes used to refer to people of
              mixed parentage and,
              despite its origin.]]

              SOURCE:
              http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
              http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
              http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

              Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
              the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
              in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
              group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

              ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

              [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
              was an expression of social status (value)
              of particular groups in society.

              Race was considered by the "White" elite
              as a natural distinction in human identity.

              Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
              counted as three-fifths of a person, and
              until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
              categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

              Early censuses did not count Indians unless
              they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
              did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

              The 1870 census classified the indigenous
              population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

              Only after 1924, when American Indians were
              given citizenship,
              they began to be classified in a
              single racial category according to the US census.

              The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
              "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
              under the term "colored") for free African descended
              people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
              term "Mulatto" was used again together with
              "Negro" to classify African descendents.

              The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
              classify admixed people in the US census
              supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
              of "Whites", which additionally contended that
              hybrid racial species were less fertile and
              had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

              For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
              defined as including anyone having
              any percentage of African blood.

              "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
              skin by census enumerators and was not
              based on genealogical history.

              It referred to people in whom the mixture
              of "White" and "Black" was visible.

              [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
              'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
              reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
              their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
              numeration if the census worker decided that they
              would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

              In addition, many people who were actually
              of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
              erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

              The 1890 census "refined"
              this admixed racial category:

              Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
              "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
              mulatto parent and the other white) and
              "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
              one Quadroon parent and the other White)
              to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

              The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
              and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
              census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

              Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
              for admixed populations was eventually
              substituted by "Non-White" categories based
              on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


              The 1930 US census stated that "a person
              of mixed White and Negro blood should be
              returned [classified] a Negro,

              (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

            • tlbaker1
              wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame. Lynne _____ From:
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
              • 0 Attachment

                wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.

                 

                Lynne

                 


                From: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com ]
                On Behalf Of
                Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                as a "light-skinned Black"

                 

                Thank you for this point!

                 

                I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                how dark I am at any given time of the year.

                 

                Raven
                 

                ----- Original Message ----

                Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                Related Link:
                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                 


                In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


                Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                A group of siblings can be born of the same
                two parents and be of different shades.
                Mixed-Race people come in many different
                shades from very light to very dark.
                Genes have a mind of their own.

                Lynne


                In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                 Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                 Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

                 Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                        is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                        Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                 Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                       the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                Question:    
                (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                I agree with you, but what about Frank
                Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                scientist
                Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                the multiple generations of their various families.

                They have proven the same thing in regards to
                North African, East African, Polynesian

                and Aboriginal populations as well.

                In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                the rather obvious
                Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                Here is more information to support the studies,
                the claims and the conclusions of
                the world's leading
                Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                [[[[

                Most AAs have 20-30% European
                & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                The figures listed below clearly support data
                repeatedly presented that says most people
                who are
                born to two parents who are both
                members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                European and a +25% Amerindian
                ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                group known as African-American (AA) is
                not
                the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                Some data is available via an internet link – other
                may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                these same groups; estimates of the
                European-American genetic contribution to the
                African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


                In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                and European-Americans may have occurred to
                different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                as they are defined primarily by cultural
                criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                Y-chromosomes were determined to
                be of European-American ancestry
                the resulting estimate of the European-American
                genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                32.6%, which is not significantly different
                from the estimate of 33.6%...

                We found no significant heterogeneity among
                regional groups of African-Americans …........
                the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                with European-Americans is thought to have
                varied across different geographic regions
                of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                admixture observed in Northern groups …
                other studies find a more complex relationship between
                the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                Our estimates of the European-American
                genetic contribution to African-Americans
                are quite similar across regional geographic
                groups and do not vary significantly …

                A further complicating factor is migration among
                geographic regions within the United States …
                migration of African-Americans within
                the United States may have been extensive …

                The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                types may thus reflect this …

                Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                have generally found ~20% European genetic
                contribution to African-American populations …


                Our results indicate substantially
                higher contribution of European-American
                Y-chromosome
                (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                disparity
                in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                contribution of European-American men

                than women to African-Americans
                during the slavery period.


                Our results support the view that the dynamics
                of the European-American genetic contribution
                to African-Americans is more complicated than
                a simple north-south division would suggest …

                The European-American genetic
                contribution to African-Americans was
                estimated by two different methods
                .

                --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                as the molecular distance among alleles …

                --- The second method is an assignment test …
                calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

                SOURCE:
                [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                Anthropological measurement:
                The mismeasure of African Americans.
                Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                Estimating African American admixture proportions
                by use of population-specific alleles.
                Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                FACT:

                *****"African Americans, on the average,
                have … 30% European ancestry.
                Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                different racial groups have different rates
                of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                SOURCE:
                [[
                http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                And it is also recommended that people either
                purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                the world's leading geneticist and director
                of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                European admixture found within
                the ancestral
                lineage of the average person who is a member
                of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                FACT:

                [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                sometimes used to refer to people of
                mixed parentage and,
                despite its origin.]]

                SOURCE:
                http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                was an expression of social status (value)
                of particular groups in society.

                Race was considered by the "White" elite
                as a natural distinction in human identity.

                Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                given citizenship,
                they began to be classified in a
                single racial category according to the US census.

                The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                under the term "colored") for free African descended
                people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                classify admixed people in the US census
                supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                defined as including anyone having
                any percentage of African blood.

                "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                skin by census enumerators and was not
                based on genealogical history.

                It referred to people in whom the mixture
                of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                numeration if the census worker decided that they
                would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                In addition, many people who were actually
                of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                The 1890 census "refined"
                this admixed racial category:

                Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                mulat

                (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

              • Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown; I m a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed Black,Irish, and English. My features
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                  I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                  Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                  Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                  Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                  goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                  occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                  So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                  they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                  those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                  don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                  I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                  Raven
                   



                  ----- Original Message ----

                  From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@...>
                  To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                  Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                  wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                  tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.

                   

                  Lynne


                  From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                  [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                  On Behalf Of
                  Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                  Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                  To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                  as a "light-skinned Black"

                   

                  Thank you for this point!

                   

                  I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                  get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                  how dark I am at any given time of the year.

                   

                  Raven
                   


                  ----- Original Message ----


                  Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                  That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                  And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                  Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                  Related Link:
                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                   


                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


                  Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                  does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                  A group of siblings can be born of the same
                  two parents and be of different shades.
                  Mixed-Race people come in many different
                  shades from very light to very dark.
                  Genes have a mind of their own.

                  Lynne


                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                  Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                  thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                  Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                   Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                   Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

                   Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                          is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                          Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                   Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                         the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                  Question:    
                  (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                  I agree with you, but what about Frank
                  Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                  Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                  Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                  Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                  by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                  Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                  no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                  Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                  his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                  himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                  The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                  scientist
                  Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                  way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                  also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                  the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                  Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                  biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                  Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                  about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                  found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                  Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                  the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                  done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                  (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                  Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                  field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                  ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                  the multiple generations of their various families.

                  They have proven the same thing in regards to
                  North African, East African, Polynesian

                  and Aboriginal populations as well.

                  In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                  and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                  is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                  chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                  MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                  admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                  of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                  lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                  refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                  Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                  composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                  on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                  (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                  has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                  In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                  the rather obvious
                  Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                  Here is more information to support the studies,
                  the claims and the conclusions of
                  the world's leading
                  Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                  Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                  of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                  world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                  to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                  groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                  [[[[

                  Most AAs have 20-30% European
                  & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                  The figures listed below clearly support data
                  repeatedly presented that says most people
                  who are
                  born to two parents who are both
                  members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                  `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                  the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                  .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                  European and a +25% Amerindian
                  ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                  [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                  group known as African-American (AA) is
                  not
                  the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                  group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                  Some data is available via an internet link – other
                  may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                  THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                  that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                  *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                  these same groups; estimates of the
                  European-American genetic contribution to the
                  African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


                  In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                  and European-Americans may have occurred to
                  different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                  contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                  of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                  Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                  U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                  as they are defined primarily by cultural
                  criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                  27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                  Y-chromosomes were determined to
                  be of European-American ancestry
                  the resulting estimate of the European-American
                  genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                  32.6%, which is not significantly different
                  from the estimate of 33.6%...

                  We found no significant heterogeneity among
                  regional groups of African-Americans …........
                  the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                  with European-Americans is thought to have
                  varied across different geographic regions
                  of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                  admixture observed in Northern groups …
                  other studies find a more complex relationship between
                  the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                  Our estimates of the European-American
                  genetic contribution to African-Americans
                  are quite similar across regional geographic
                  groups and do not vary significantly …

                  A further complicating factor is migration among
                  geographic regions within the United States …
                  migration of African-Americans within
                  the United States may have been extensive …

                  The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                  in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                  types may thus reflect this …

                  Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                  have generally found ~20% European genetic
                  contribution to African-American populations …


                  Our results indicate substantially
                  higher contribution of European-American
                  Y-chromosome
                  (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                  disparity
                  in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                  versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                  contribution of European-American men

                  than women to African-Americans
                  during the slavery period.


                  Our results support the view that the dynamics
                  of the European-American genetic contribution
                  to African-Americans is more complicated than
                  a simple north-south division would suggest …

                  The European-American genetic
                  contribution to African-Americans was
                  estimated by two different methods
                  .

                  --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                  that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                  as the molecular distance among alleles …

                  --- The second method is an assignment test …
                  calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

                  SOURCE:
                  [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                  Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                  Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                  microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                  Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                  Anthropological measurement:
                  The mismeasure of African Americans.
                  Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                  Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                  Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                  D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                  Estimating African American admixture proportions
                  by use of population-specific alleles.
                  Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                  http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                  FACT:

                  *****"African Americans, on the average,
                  have … 30% European ancestry.
                  Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                  Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                  different racial groups have different rates
                  of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                  make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                  SOURCE:
                  [[
                  http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                  And it is also recommended that people either
                  purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                  library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                  -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                  the world's leading geneticist and director
                  of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                  – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                  European admixture found within
                  the ancestral
                  lineage of the average person who is a member
                  of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                  FACT:

                  [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                  African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                  While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                  or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                  sometimes used to refer to people of
                  mixed parentage and,
                  despite its origin.]]

                  SOURCE:
                  http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                  http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                  http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                  Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                  the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                  in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                  group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                  ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                  [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                  was an expression of social status (value)
                  of particular groups in society.

                  Race was considered by the "White" elite
                  as a natural distinction in human identity.

                  Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                  counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                  until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                  categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                  Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                  they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                  did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                  The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                  population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                  Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                  given citizenship,
                  they began to be classified in a
                  single racial category according to the US census.

                  The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                  "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                  under the term "colored") for free African descended
                  people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                  term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                  "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                  The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                  classify admixed people in the US census
                  supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                  of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                  hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                  had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                  For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                  defined as including anyone having
                  any percentage of African blood.

                  "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                  skin by census enumerators and was not
                  based on genealogical history.

                  It referred to people in whom the mixture
                  of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                  [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                  'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                  reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                  their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                  numeration if the census worker decided that they
                  would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                  In addition, many people who were actually
                  of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                  erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                  The 1890 census "refined"
                  this admixed racial category:

                  Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                  "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                  mulatto parent and the other white) and
                  "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                  one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                  to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                  The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                  and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                  census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                  Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                  for admixed populations was eventually
                  substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                  on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                  The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                  of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                  returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                  The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                  against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                  and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                  It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                  was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                  From then until the 2000 census,
                  racial classification in the United States did
                  not give any room for multiracial classification.

                  Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                  number of persons checked the "other"
                  race category and specified that they
                  belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                  The concept of race based on ancestry in
                  the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                  of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                  difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                  SOURCE:

                  http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                  MORE COMMENTARY:

                  [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                  African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored.

                  While not as common as "mixed" or as
                  "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                  still sometimes used to refer to people of
                  mixed parentage and,
                  despite its origin.]]

                  SOURCE:

                  http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                  http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                  http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                  "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                  I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                  there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                  I want to hear your comment on that one.


                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                   Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                   Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                  .

                   Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                          is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                          Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                   Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                         the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"

                   

                   



                • multiracialbookclub
                  Raven makes a really great point! [=D ] We d all like to hear from all of our members -- of every color,shade, hue, phenotype and chronology -- of their
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Raven makes a really great point! =D>

                    We'd all like to hear from all of our members --
                    of every color,shade, hue, phenotype and chronology
                    -- of their experiences as and the lessons they've
                    learned in life regarding being a Mixed-Race person
                    (again, regardless of phenotype or of whether they
                    are Mixed-Race via their parentage or lineage)!! :-?

                    So -- please feel free to "Speak Up" -- ALL Gen-Mixed Members!!

                    This group is like 'a family' within 'a community'and we
                    would all love and really want to hear from EVERYONE !!! ;;)

                    We most definitely want to hear from all our members !!!:)


                    In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                    "Erica \(Raven\) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@...> wrote:


                    "
                    ... I'd kind of like to see some input from
                    those of us who are Mixed -- but *not*
                    particularly pale, or who don't have
                    the more aquiline features of Whites. "

                    Raven



                    In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                    "Erica \(Raven\) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@...> wrote:


                    Thank you for this point!

                    I am Multi-Generationally Mixed, and how I
                    get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                    how dark I am at any given time of the year.

                    Raven
                     
                    ----- Original Message ----


                    Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:

                    That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                    And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                    Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                    Related Link:
                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                     

                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                    "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


                    Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                    does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                    A group of siblings can be born of the same
                    two parents and be of different shades.
                    Mixed-Race people come in many different
                    shades from very light to very dark.
                    Genes have a mind of their own.

                    Lynne



                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                    Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                    thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                    Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                    Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                    Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON

                    Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                            is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                            Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                     Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                           the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                    Question:    
                    (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                    I agree with you, but what about Frank
                    Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                    Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                    Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                    Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                    by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                    Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                    no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                    Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                    his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                    himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                    The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                    scientist
                    Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                    way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                    also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                    the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                    Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                    biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                    Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                    about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                    found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                    Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                    the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                    done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                    (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                    Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                    field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                    ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                    the multiple generations of their various families.

                    They have proven the same thing in regards to
                    North African, East African, Polynesian

                    and Aboriginal populations as well.

                    In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                    and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                    is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                    chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                    MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                    admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                    of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                    lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                    refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                    Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                    composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                    on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                    (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                    has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                    In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                    the rather obvious
                    Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                    Here is more information to support the studies,
                    the claims and the conclusions of
                    the world's leading
                    Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                    Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                    of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                    world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                    to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                    groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                    [[[[

                    Most AAs have 20-30% European
                    & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                    The figures listed below clearly support data
                    repeatedly presented that says most people
                    who are
                    born to two parents who are both
                    members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                    `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                    the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                    .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                    European and a +25% Amerindian
                    ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                    [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                    group known as African-American (AA) is
                    not
                    the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                    group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                    Some data is available via an internet link – other
                    may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                    THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                    that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                    *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                    these same groups; estimates of the
                    European-American genetic contribution to the
                    African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                    …

                    In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                    and European-Americans may have occurred to
                    different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                    contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                    of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                    Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                    U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                    as they are defined primarily by cultural
                    criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                    27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                    Y-chromosomes were determined to
                    be of European-American ancestry
                    …
                    the resulting estimate of the European-American
                    genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                    32.6%, which is not significantly different
                    from the estimate of 33.6%...

                    We found no significant heterogeneity among
                    regional groups of African-Americans …........
                    the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                    with European-Americans is thought to have
                    varied across different geographic regions
                    of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                    admixture observed in Northern groups …
                    other studies find a more complex relationship between
                    the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                    Our estimates of the European-American
                    genetic contribution to African-Americans
                    are quite similar across regional geographic
                    groups and do not vary significantly …

                    A further complicating factor is migration among
                    geographic regions within the United States …
                    migration of African-Americans within
                    the United States may have been extensive …

                    The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                    in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                    types may thus reflect this …

                    Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                    have generally found ~20% European genetic
                    contribution to African-American populations …


                    Our results indicate substantially
                    higher contribution of European-American
                    Y-chromosome
                    (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                    disparity
                    in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                    versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                    contribution of European-American men

                    than women to African-Americans
                    during the slavery period.


                    Our results support the view that the dynamics
                    of the European-American genetic contribution
                    to African-Americans is more complicated than
                    a simple north-south division would suggest …

                    The European-American genetic
                    contribution to African-Americans was
                    estimated by two different methods
                    .

                    --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                    that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                    as the molecular distance among alleles …

                    --- The second method is an assignment test …
                    calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                    SOURCE:
                    [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                    Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                    Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                    microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                    Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                    Anthropological measurement:
                    The mismeasure of African Americans.
                    Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                    Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                    Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                    D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                    Estimating African American admixture proportions
                    by use of population-specific alleles.
                    Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                    http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                    FACT:

                    *****"African Americans, on the average,
                    have … 30% European ancestry.
                    Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                    Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                    different racial groups have different rates
                    of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                    make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                    SOURCE:
                    [[
                    http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                    And it is also recommended that people either
                    purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                    library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                    -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                    the world's leading geneticist and director
                    of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                    – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                    European admixture found within
                    the ancestral
                    lineage of the average person who is a member
                    of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                    FACT:

                    [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                    African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                    While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                    or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                    sometimes used to refer to people of
                    mixed parentage and,
                    despite its origin.]]

                    SOURCE:
                    http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                    http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                    http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                    Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                    the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                    in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                    group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                    ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                    [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                    was an expression of social status (value)
                    of particular groups in society.

                    Race was considered by the "White" elite
                    as a natural distinction in human identity.

                    Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                    counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                    until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                    categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                    Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                    they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                    did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                    The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                    population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                    Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                    given citizenship,
                    they began to be classified in a
                    single racial category according to the US census.

                    The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                    "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                    under the term "colored") for free African descended
                    people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                    term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                    "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                    The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                    classify admixed people in the US census
                    supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                    of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                    hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                    had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                    For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                    defined as including anyone having
                    any percentage of African blood.

                    "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                    skin by census enumerators and was not
                    based on genealogical history.

                    It referred to people in whom the mixture
                    of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                    [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                    'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                    reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                    their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                    numeration if the census worker decided that they
                    would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                    In addition, many people who were actually
                    of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                    erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                    The 1890 census "refined"
                    this admixed racial category:

                    Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                    "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                    mulatto parent and the other white) and
                    "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                    one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                    to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                    The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                    and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                    census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                    Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                    for admixed populations was eventually
                    substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                    on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                    The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                    of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                    returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                    The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                    against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                    and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                    It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                    was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                    From then until the 2000 census,
                    racial classification in the United States did
                    not give any room for multiracial classification.

                    Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                    number of persons checked the "other"
                    race category and specified that they
                    belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                    The concept of race based on ancestry in
                    the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                    of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                    difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                    SOURCE:

                    http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                    MORE COMMENTARY:

                    [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                    African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                    While not as common as "mixed" or as
                    "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                    still sometimes used to refer to people of
                    mixed parentage and,
                    despite its origin.]]

                    SOURCE:

                    http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                    http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                    http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87


                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                    "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                    I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                    there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                    I want to hear your comment on that one.


                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                     Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                     Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                    .

                     Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                            is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                            Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                     Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                           the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"

                  • Carla Stevens
                    Hi Raven, I am not Mixed. I am German, French, Scottish, Irish. My Daughter is Mixed. Anna s Father is African American and I think a little Native American.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Raven,

                      I am not Mixed. I am German, French, Scottish, Irish.
                      My Daughter is Mixed. Anna's Father is African American
                      and I think a little Native American. Anna does not really
                      “look Mixed”. She is medium brown maybe a little lighter.

                      Her Dad thinks that my freckles contributed to her
                      skin color because freckles are melanin as well
                      (if that's the correct spelling?) I don't know
                      if he is correct but it kind of makes sense. I am
                      very light but I have a lot of freckles. My Daughter
                      doesn't have any freckles yet. She is only 21 months old

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                      I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                      I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                      Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                      Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                      Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                      goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                      occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                      So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                      they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                      those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                      don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                      I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                      Raven
                       



                      ----- Original Message ----

                      From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                      To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                      Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                      wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                      tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.

                       

                      Lynne


                      From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                      [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                      On Behalf Of
                      Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                      Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                      To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                      as a "light-skinned Black"

                       

                      Thank you for this point!

                       

                      I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                      get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                      how dark I am at any given time of the year.

                       

                      Raven
                       


                      ----- Original Message ----


                      Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                      That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                      And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                      Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                      Related Link:
                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                       


                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                      "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


                      Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                      does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                      A group of siblings can be born of the same
                      two parents and be of different shades.
                      Mixed-Race people come in many different
                      shades from very light to very dark.
                      Genes have a mind of their own.

                      Lynne


                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                      Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                      thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                      Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.

                       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                              is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                      Question:    
                      (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                      I agree with you, but what about Frank
                      Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                      Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                      Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                      Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                      by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                      Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                      no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                      Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                      his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                      himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                      The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                      scientist
                      Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                      way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                      also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                      the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                      Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                      biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                      Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                      about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                      found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                      the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                      done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                      (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                      Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                      field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                      ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                      the multiple generations of their various families.

                      They have proven the same thing in regards to
                      North African, East African, Polynesian

                      and Aboriginal populations as well.

                      In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                      and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                      is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                      chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                      MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                      admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                      of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                      lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                      refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                      composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                      on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                      (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                      has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                      In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                      the rather obvious
                      Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                      Here is more information to support the studies,
                      the claims and the conclusions of
                      the world's leading
                      Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                      Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                      of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                      world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                      to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                      groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                      [[[[

                      Most AAs have 20-30% European
                      & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                      The figures listed below clearly support data
                      repeatedly presented that says most people
                      who are
                      born to two parents who are both
                      members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                      `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                      the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                      .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                      European and a +25% Amerindian
                      ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                      [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                      group known as African-American (AA) is
                      not
                      the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                      group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                      Some data is available via an internet link – other
                      may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                      THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                      that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                      *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                      these same groups; estimates of the
                      European-American genetic contribution to the
                      African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


                      In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                      and European-Americans may have occurred to
                      different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                      contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                      of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                      Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                      U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                      as they are defined primarily by cultural
                      criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                      27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                      Y-chromosomes were determined to
                      be of European-American ancestry
                      the resulting estimate of the European-American
                      genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                      32.6%, which is not significantly different
                      from the estimate of 33.6%...

                      We found no significant heterogeneity among
                      regional groups of African-Americans …........
                      the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                      with European-Americans is thought to have
                      varied across different geographic regions
                      of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                      admixture observed in Northern groups …
                      other studies find a more complex relationship between
                      the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                      Our estimates of the European-American
                      genetic contribution to African-Americans
                      are quite similar across regional geographic
                      groups and do not vary significantly …

                      A further complicating factor is migration among
                      geographic regions within the United States …
                      migration of African-Americans within
                      the United States may have been extensive …

                      The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                      in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                      types may thus reflect this …

                      Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                      have generally found ~20% European genetic
                      contribution to African-American populations …


                      Our results indicate substantially
                      higher contribution of European-American
                      Y-chromosome
                      (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                      disparity
                      in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                      versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                      contribution of European-American men

                      than women to African-Americans
                      during the slavery period.


                      Our results support the view that the dynamics
                      of the European-American genetic contribution
                      to African-Americans is more complicated than
                      a simple north-south division would suggest …

                      The European-American genetic
                      contribution to African-Americans was
                      estimated by two different methods
                      .

                      --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                      that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                      as the molecular distance among alleles …

                      --- The second method is an assignment test …
                      calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

                      SOURCE:
                      [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                      Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                      Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                      microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                      Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                      Anthropological measurement:
                      The mismeasure of African Americans.
                      Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                      Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                      Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                      D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                      Estimating African American admixture proportions
                      by use of population-specific alleles.
                      Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                      http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                      FACT:

                      *****"African Americans, on the average,
                      have … 30% European ancestry.
                      Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                      Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                      different racial groups have different rates
                      of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                      make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                      SOURCE:
                      [[
                      http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                      And it is also recommended that people either
                      purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                      library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                      -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                      the world's leading geneticist and director
                      of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                      – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                      European admixture found within
                      the ancestral
                      lineage of the average person who is a member
                      of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                      FACT:

                      [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                      African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                      While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                      or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                      sometimes used to refer to people of
                      mixed parentage and,
                      despite its origin.]]

                      SOURCE:
                      http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                      http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                      http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                      Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                      the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                      in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                      group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                      ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                      [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                      was an expression of social status (value)
                      of particular groups in society.

                      Race was considered by the "White" elite
                      as a natural distinction in human identity.

                      Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                      counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                      until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                      categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                      Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                      they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                      did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                      The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                      population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                      Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                      given citizenship,
                      they began to be classified in a
                      single racial category according to the US census.

                      The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                      "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                      under the term "colored") for free African descended
                      people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                      term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                      "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                      The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                      classify admixed people in the US census
                      supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                      of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                      hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                      had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                      For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                      defined as including anyone having
                      any percentage of African blood.

                      "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                      skin by census enumerators and was not
                      based on genealogical history.

                      It referred to people in whom the mixture
                      of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                      [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                      'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                      reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                      their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                      numeration if the census worker decided that they
                      would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                      In addition, many people who were actually
                      of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                      erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                      The 1890 census "refined"
                      this admixed racial category:

                      Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                      "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                      mulatto parent and the other white) and
                      "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                      one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                      to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                      The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                      and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                      census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                      Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                      for admixed populations was eventually
                      substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                      on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                      The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                      of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                      returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                      The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                      against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                      and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                      It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                      was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                      From then until the 2000 census,
                      racial classification in the United States did
                      not give any room for multiracial classification.

                      Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                      number of persons checked the "other"
                      race category and specified that they
                      belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                      The concept of race based on ancestry in
                      the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                      of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                      difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                      SOURCE:

                      http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                      MORE COMMENTARY:

                      [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                      African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored.

                      While not as common as "mixed" or as
                      "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                      still sometimes used to refer to people of
                      mixed parentage and,
                      despite its origin.]]

                      SOURCE:

                      http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                      http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                      http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                      "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                      I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                      there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                      I want to hear your comment on that one.


                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                      .

                       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                              is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"

                       

                       



                    • tlbaker1
                      Yes, because I feel like I am the only one runnin my mouth or should I say fingers, LOLOL Lynne _____ From: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Yes, because I feel like I am the only one
                        runnin my mouth or should I say fingers, LOLOL

                         

                        Lynne

                         


                        From: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com ]
                        On Behalf Of
                        multiracialbookclub
                        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 3:59 PM
                        To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Raven's right ... feel free to 'speak up' everyone

                         

                        Raven makes a really great point! =D>

                        We'd all like to hear from all of our members --
                        of every color,shade, hue, phenotype and chronology
                        -- of their experiences as and the lessons they've
                        learned in life regarding being a Mixed-Race person
                        (again, regardless of phenotype or of whether they
                        are Mixed-Race via their parentage or lineage)!! :-?

                        So -- please feel free to "Speak Up" -- ALL Gen-Mixed Members!!

                        This group is like 'a family' within 'a community'and we
                        would all love and really want to hear from EVERYONE !!! ;;)

                        We most definitely want to hear from all our members !!!:)


                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ,
                        "Erica \(Raven\) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@...> wrote:


                        "
                        ... I'd kind of like to see some input from
                        those of us who are Mixed -- but *not*
                        particularly pale, or who don't have
                        the more aquiline features of Whites. "

                        Raven



                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ,
                        "Erica \(Raven\) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@...> wrote:


                        Thank you for this point!

                        I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                        get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                        how dark I am at any given time of the year.

                        Raven
                         
                        ----- Original Message ----


                        Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:

                        That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                        And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                        Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                        Related Link:
                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                         

                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                        "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:


                        Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                        does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                        A group of siblings can be born of the same
                        two parents and be of different shades.
                        Mixed-Race people come in many different
                        shades from very light to very dark.
                        Genes have a mind of their own.

                        Lynne



                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                        Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                        thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                        Statement(s) :
                               (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                        Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                        Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON

                        Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                         Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                               the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                        Question:    
                        (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                        I agree with you, but what about Frank
                        Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                        Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                        Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                        Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                        by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                        Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                        no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                        Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                        his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                        himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                        The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                        scientist
                        Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                        way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                        also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                        the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                        Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                        biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                        Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                        about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                        found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                        the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                        done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                        (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                        Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                        field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                        ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                        the multiple generations of their various families.

                        They have proven the same thing in regards to
                        North African, East African, Polynesian

                        and Aboriginal populations as well.

                        In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                        and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                        is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                        chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                        MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                        admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                        of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                        lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                        refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                        composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                        on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                        (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                        has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                        In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                        the rather obvious
                        Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                        Here is more information to support the studies,
                        the claims and the conclusions of
                        the world's leading
                        Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                        Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                        of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                        world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                        to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                        groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                        [[[[

                        Most AAs have 20-30% European
                        & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                        The figures listed below clearly support data
                        repeatedly presented that says most people
                        who are
                        born to two parents who are both
                        members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                        `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                        the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                        .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                        European and a +25% Amerindian
                        ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                        [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                        group known as African-American (AA) is
                        not
                        the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                        group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                        Some data is available via an internet link – other
                        may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                        THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                        that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                        *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                        these same groups; estimates of the
                        European-American genetic contribution to the
                        African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%


                        In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                        and European-Americans may have occurred to
                        different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                        contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                        of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                        Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                        U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                        as they are defined primarily by cultural
                        criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                        27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                        Y-chromosomes were determined to
                        be of European-American ancestry
                        the resulting estimate of the European-American
                        genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                        32.6%, which is not significantly different
                        from the estimate of 33.6%...

                        We found no significant heterogeneity among
                        regional groups of African-Americans …........
                        the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                        with European-Americans is thought to have
                        varied across different geographic regions
                        of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                        admixture observed in Northern groups …
                        other studies find a more complex relationship between
                        the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                        Our estimates of the European-American
                        genetic contribution to African-Americans
                        are quite similar across regional geographic
                        groups and do not vary significantly …

                        A further complicating factor is migration among
                        geographic regions within the United States …
                        migration of African-Americans within
                        the United States may have been extensive …

                        The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                        in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                        types may thus reflect this …

                        Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                        have generally found ~20% European genetic
                        contribution to African-American populations …


                        Our results indicate substantially
                        higher contribution of European-American
                        Y-chromosome
                        (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                        disparity
                        in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                        versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                        contribution of European-American men

                        than women to African-Americans
                        during the slavery period.


                        Our results support the view that the dynamics
                        of the European-American genetic contribution
                        to African-Americans is more complicated than
                        a simple north-south division would suggest …

                        The European-American genetic
                        contribution to African-Americans was
                        estimated by two different methods
                        .

                        --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                        that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                        as the molecular distance among alleles …

                        --- The second method is an assignment test …
                        calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies

                        SOURCE:
                        [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                        Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                        Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                        microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                        Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                        Anthropological measurement:
                        The mismeasure of African Americans.
                        Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                        Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                        Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                        D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                        Estimating African American admixture proportions
                        by use of population-specific alleles.
                        Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                        http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                        FACT:

                        *****"African Americans, on the average,
                        have … 30% European ancestry.
                        Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                        Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                        different racial groups have different rates
                        of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                        make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                        SOURCE:
                        [[
                        http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                        And it is also recommended that people either
                        purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                        library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                        -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                        the world's leading geneticist and director
                        of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                        – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                        European admixture found within
                        the ancestral
                        lineage of the average person who is a member
                        of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                        FACT:

                        [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                        African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                        While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                        or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                        sometimes used to refer to people of
                        mixed parentage and,
                        despite its origin.]]

                        SOURCE:
                        http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                        http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                        http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                        Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                        the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                        in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                        group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                        ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                        [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                        was an expression of social status (value)
                        of particular groups in society.

                        Race was considered by the "White" elite
                        as a natural distinction in human identity.

                        Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                        counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                        until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                        categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                        Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                        they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                        did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                        The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                        population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                        Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                        given citizenship,
                        they began to be classified in a
                        single racial category according to the

                        (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

                      • j s
                        I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two things that were a source of constant
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                          brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                          things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                          while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                          As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                          Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                          http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                           
                          Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                          to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                          One thing I laugh about is when white people
                          say "black" they lower their voices and look
                          around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                          I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                          the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw.

                           
                          "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"<golanv1@...> wrote:
                          I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                          I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                          Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                          Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                          Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                          goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                          occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                          So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                          they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                          those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                          don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                          I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                          Raven
                           



                          ----- Original Message ----

                          From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                          To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                          Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                          wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                          tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                           
                          Lynne

                          From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                          [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                          On Behalf Of
                          Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                          Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                          To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                          as a "light-skinned Black"
                           
                          Thank you for this point!
                           
                          I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                          get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                          how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                           
                          Raven
                           

                          ----- Original Message ----


                          Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                          That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                          And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                          Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                          Related Link:
                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                           


                          In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                          "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                          Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                          does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                          A group of siblings can be born of the same
                          two parents and be of different shades.
                          Mixed-Race people come in many different
                          shades from very light to very dark.
                          Genes have a mind of their own.

                          Lynne


                          In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                          Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                          thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                          Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                           Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".
                           Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.
                           Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                  is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                  Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                           Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                 the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                          Question:    
                          (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                          I agree with you, but what about Frank
                          Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                          Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                          Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                          Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                          by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                          Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                          no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                          Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                          his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                          himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                          The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                          scientist
                          Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                          way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                          also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                          the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                          Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                          biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                          Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                          about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                          found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                          Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                          the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                          done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                          (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                          Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                          field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                          ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                          the multiple generations of their various families.

                          They have proven the same thing in regards to
                          North African, East African, Polynesian

                          and Aboriginal populations as well.

                          In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                          and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                          is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                          chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                          MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                          admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                          of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                          lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                          refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                          Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                          composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                          on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                          (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                          has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                          In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                          the rather obvious
                          Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                          Here is more information to support the studies,
                          the claims and the conclusions of
                          the world's leading
                          Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                          Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                          of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                          world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                          to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                          groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                          [[[[

                          Most AAs have 20-30% European
                          & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                          The figures listed below clearly support data
                          repeatedly presented that says most people
                          who are
                          born to two parents who are both
                          members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                          `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                          the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                          .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                          European and a +25% Amerindian
                          ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                          [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                          group known as African-American (AA) is
                          not
                          the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                          group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                          Some data is available via an internet link – other
                          may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                          THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                          that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                          *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                          these same groups; estimates of the
                          European-American genetic contribution to the
                          African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                          …

                          In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                          and European-Americans may have occurred to
                          different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                          contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                          of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                          Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                          U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                          as they are defined primarily by cultural
                          criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                          27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                          Y-chromosomes were determined to
                          be of European-American ancestry
                          …
                          the resulting estimate of the European-American
                          genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                          32.6%, which is not significantly different
                          from the estimate of 33.6%...

                          We found no significant heterogeneity among
                          regional groups of African-Americans …........
                          the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                          with European-Americans is thought to have
                          varied across different geographic regions
                          of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                          admixture observed in Northern groups …
                          other studies find a more complex relationship between
                          the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                          Our estimates of the European-American
                          genetic contribution to African-Americans
                          are quite similar across regional geographic
                          groups and do not vary significantly …

                          A further complicating factor is migration among
                          geographic regions within the United States …
                          migration of African-Americans within
                          the United States may have been extensive …

                          The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                          in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                          types may thus reflect this …

                          Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                          have generally found ~20% European genetic
                          contribution to African-American populations …


                          Our results indicate substantially
                          higher contribution of European-American
                          Y-chromosome
                          (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                          disparity
                          in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                          versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                          contribution of European-American men

                          than women to African-Americans
                          during the slavery period.


                          Our results support the view that the dynamics
                          of the European-American genetic contribution
                          to African-Americans is more complicated than
                          a simple north-south division would suggest …

                          The European-American genetic
                          contribution to African-Americans was
                          estimated by two different methods
                          .

                          --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                          that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                          as the molecular distance among alleles …

                          --- The second method is an assignment test …
                          calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                          SOURCE:
                          [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                          Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                          Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                          microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                          Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                          Anthropological measurement:
                          The mismeasure of African Americans.
                          Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                          Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                          Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                          D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                          Estimating African American admixture proportions
                          by use of population-specific alleles.
                          Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                          http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                          FACT:

                          *****"African Americans, on the average,
                          have … 30% European ancestry.
                          Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                          Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                          different racial groups have different rates
                          of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                          make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                          SOURCE:
                          [[
                          http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                          And it is also recommended that people either
                          purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                          library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                          -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                          the world's leading geneticist and director
                          of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                          – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                          European admixture found within
                          the ancestral
                          lineage of the average person who is a member
                          of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                          FACT:

                          [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                          African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                          While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                          or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                          sometimes used to refer to people of
                          mixed parentage and,
                          despite its origin.]]

                          SOURCE:
                          http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                          http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                          http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                          Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                          the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                          in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                          group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                          ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                          [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                          was an expression of social status (value)
                          of particular groups in society.

                          Race was considered by the "White" elite
                          as a natural distinction in human identity.

                          Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                          counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                          until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                          categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                          Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                          they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                          did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                          The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                          population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                          Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                          given citizenship,
                          they began to be classified in a
                          single racial category according to the US census.

                          The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                          "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                          under the term "colored") for free African descended
                          people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                          term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                          "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                          The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                          classify admixed people in the US census
                          supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                          of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                          hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                          had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                          For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                          defined as including anyone having
                          any percentage of African blood.

                          "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                          skin by census enumerators and was not
                          based on genealogical history.

                          It referred to people in whom the mixture
                          of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                          [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                          'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                          reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                          their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                          numeration if the census worker decided that they
                          would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                          In addition, many people who were actually
                          of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                          erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                          The 1890 census "refined"
                          this admixed racial category:

                          Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                          "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                          mulatto parent and the other white) and
                          "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                          one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                          to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                          The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                          and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                          census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                          Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                          for admixed populations was eventually
                          substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                          on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                          The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                          of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                          returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                          The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                          against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                          and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                          It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                          was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                          From then until the 2000 census,
                          racial classification in the United States did
                          not give any room for multiracial classification.

                          Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                          number of persons checked the "other"
                          race category and specified that they
                          belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                          The concept of race based on ancestry in
                          the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                          of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                          difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                          SOURCE:

                          http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                          MORE COMMENTARY:

                          [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                          African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                          While not as common as "mixed" or as
                          "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                          still sometimes used to refer to people of
                          mixed parentage and,
                          despite its origin.]]

                          SOURCE:

                          http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                          http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                          http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                          "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                          I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                          there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                          I want to hear your comment on that one.


                          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                           Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                           Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                          .

                           Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                  is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                  Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                           Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                 the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"
                           
                           




                          Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                        • phillymom35
                          Hi Raven,.my skin tone is brown, blk hair- not too bad a grade [lol] eyes are dark. Where I live people assume I m black-period. -- But once in a while
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Raven,.my skin tone is brown, blk hair
                            - not too 'bad' a grade [lol] eyes are dark.
                            Where I live people assume I'm black-period. --
                            But once in a while someone will ask am I from
                            The Islands I answer no. and offer no more..
                            Once I went into the better department store and
                            almost before I get inside, the clerk immediately
                            walks to me asking me May I help you ?,...
                            Some would say well ,'this is good, excellent service..
                            they're there to assist you and make sales 'etc.
                            but I felt like I was being rushed or hurried,
                            only a few of us in the store were of-color.
                            but I answered her very nicely explaining I had just
                            arrived not sure of my purchase yet but if & when I
                            needed assistance I'd certainly let her know ..I didn't
                            purchase anything that day. but being the person I am .
                            I wanted to see what would happen on my next visit,..
                            same clerk but different approach .. this time
                            I received a warm “Hello” and ''How are you today?''
                            Still not sure exactly what to make of that
                            one [hmm. but it hasn't happened again
                            One other thing I can remember was the time I spoke to
                            someone one on the about a job, an interview was arranged
                            but when i walked in..... they looked a little surprised
                            as if they were expecting someone else,..[lol]
                            funny ...because my skin says one
                            thing and my voice says something else.
                            but I got the job!


                            "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@...> wrote:
                            I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                            I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                            Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                            Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                            Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                            goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                            occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                            So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                            they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                            those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                            don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                            I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                            Raven
                             



                            ----- Original Message ----

                            From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                            To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                            Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                            wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                            tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                             
                            Lynne

                            From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                            [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                            On Behalf Of
                            Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                            Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                            To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                            as a "light-skinned Black"
                             
                            Thank you for this point!
                             
                            I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                            get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                            how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                             
                            Raven
                             

                            ----- Original Message ----


                            Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                            That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                            And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                            Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                            Related Link:
                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                             


                            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                            "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                            Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                            does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                            A group of siblings can be born of the same
                            two parents and be of different shades.
                            Mixed-Race people come in many different
                            shades from very light to very dark.
                            Genes have a mind of their own.

                            Lynne


                            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                            Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                            thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                            Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                             Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".
                             Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.
                             Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                    is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                    Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                             Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                   the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                            Question:    
                            (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                            I agree with you, but what about Frank
                            Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                            Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                            Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                            Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                            by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                            Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                            no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                            Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                            his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                            himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                            The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                            scientist
                            Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                            way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                            also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                            the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                            Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                            biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                            Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                            about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                            found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                            Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                            the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                            done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                            (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                            Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                            field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                            ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                            the multiple generations of their various families.

                            They have proven the same thing in regards to
                            North African, East African, Polynesian

                            and Aboriginal populations as well.

                            In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                            and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                            is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                            chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                            MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                            admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                            of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                            lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                            refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                            Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                            composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                            on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                            (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                            has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                            In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                            the rather obvious
                            Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                            Here is more information to support the studies,
                            the claims and the conclusions of
                            the world's leading
                            Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                            Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                            of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                            world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                            to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                            groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                            [[[[

                            Most AAs have 20-30% European
                            & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                            The figures listed below clearly support data
                            repeatedly presented that says most people
                            who are
                            born to two parents who are both
                            members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                            `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                            the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                            .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                            European and a +25% Amerindian
                            ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                            [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                            group known as African-American (AA) is
                            not
                            the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                            group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                            Some data is available via an internet link – other
                            may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                            THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                            that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                            *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                            these same groups; estimates of the
                            European-American genetic contribution to the
                            African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                            …

                            In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                            and European-Americans may have occurred to
                            different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                            contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                            of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                            Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                            U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                            as they are defined primarily by cultural
                            criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                            27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                            Y-chromosomes were determined to
                            be of European-American ancestry
                            …
                            the resulting estimate of the European-American
                            genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                            32.6%, which is not significantly different
                            from the estimate of 33.6%...

                            We found no significant heterogeneity among
                            regional groups of African-Americans …........
                            the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                            with European-Americans is thought to have
                            varied across different geographic regions
                            of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                            admixture observed in Northern groups …
                            other studies find a more complex relationship between
                            the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                            Our estimates of the European-American
                            genetic contribution to African-Americans
                            are quite similar across regional geographic
                            groups and do not vary significantly …

                            A further complicating factor is migration among
                            geographic regions within the United States …
                            migration of African-Americans within
                            the United States may have been extensive …

                            The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                            in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                            types may thus reflect this …

                            Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                            have generally found ~20% European genetic
                            contribution to African-American populations …


                            Our results indicate substantially
                            higher contribution of European-American
                            Y-chromosome
                            (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                            disparity
                            in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                            versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                            contribution of European-American men

                            than women to African-Americans
                            during the slavery period.


                            Our results support the view that the dynamics
                            of the European-American genetic contribution
                            to African-Americans is more complicated than
                            a simple north-south division would suggest …

                            The European-American genetic
                            contribution to African-Americans was
                            estimated by two different methods
                            .

                            --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                            that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                            as the molecular distance among alleles …

                            --- The second method is an assignment test …
                            calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                            SOURCE:
                            [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                            Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                            Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                            microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                            Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                            Anthropological measurement:
                            The mismeasure of African Americans.
                            Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                            Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                            Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                            D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                            Estimating African American admixture proportions
                            by use of population-specific alleles.
                            Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                            http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                            FACT:

                            *****"African Americans, on the average,
                            have … 30% European ancestry.
                            Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                            Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                            different racial groups have different rates
                            of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                            make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                            SOURCE:
                            [[
                            http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                            And it is also recommended that people either
                            purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                            library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                            -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                            the world's leading geneticist and director
                            of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                            – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                            European admixture found within
                            the ancestral
                            lineage of the average person who is a member
                            of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                            FACT:

                            [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                            African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                            While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                            or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                            sometimes used to refer to people of
                            mixed parentage and,
                            despite its origin.]]

                            SOURCE:
                            http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                            http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                            http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                            Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                            the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                            in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                            group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                            ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                            [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                            was an expression of social status (value)
                            of particular groups in society.

                            Race was considered by the "White" elite
                            as a natural distinction in human identity.

                            Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                            counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                            until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                            categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                            Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                            they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                            did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                            The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                            population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                            Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                            given citizenship,
                            they began to be classified in a
                            single racial category according to the US census.

                            The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                            "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                            under the term "colored") for free African descended
                            people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                            term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                            "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                            The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                            classify admixed people in the US census
                            supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                            of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                            hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                            had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                            For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                            defined as including anyone having
                            any percentage of African blood.

                            "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                            skin by census enumerators and was not
                            based on genealogical history.

                            It referred to people in whom the mixture
                            of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                            [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                            'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                            reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                            their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                            numeration if the census worker decided that they
                            would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                            In addition, many people who were actually
                            of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                            erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                            The 1890 census "refined"
                            this admixed racial category:

                            Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                            "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                            mulatto parent and the other white) and
                            "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                            one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                            to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                            The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                            and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                            census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                            Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                            for admixed populations was eventually
                            substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                            on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                            The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                            of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                            returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                            The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                            against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                            and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                            It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                            was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                            From then until the 2000 census,
                            racial classification in the United States did
                            not give any room for multiracial classification.

                            Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                            number of persons checked the "other"
                            race category and specified that they
                            belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                            The concept of race based on ancestry in
                            the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                            of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                            difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                            SOURCE:

                            http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                            MORE COMMENTARY:

                            [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                            African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                            While not as common as "mixed" or as
                            "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                            still sometimes used to refer to people of
                            mixed parentage and,
                            despite its origin.]]

                            SOURCE:

                            http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                            http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                            http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                            "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                            I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                            there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                            I want to hear your comment on that one.


                            "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                             Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                             Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                            .

                             Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                    is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                    Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                             Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                   the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"
                             
                             




                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

                          • multiracialbookclub
                            That s a great pic Jeff -- and the shaved-head really works for you. [:)] It s like you ve got the whole Vin Diesel
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              That's a great pic Jeff  -- and the 'shaved-head' really works for you.:)
                              It's like you've got the whole Vin Diesel thing going for you. =D>


                               j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                              I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                              brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                              things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                              while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                              As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                              Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                              http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                               
                              Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                              to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                              One thing I laugh about is when white people
                              say "black" they lower their voices and look
                              around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                              I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                              the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw. 
                               
                              "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                              <golanv1@...>
                              wrote:

                              I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                              I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                              Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                              Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                              Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                              goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                              occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                              So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                              they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                              those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                              don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                              I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                              Raven

                              ----- Original Message ----


                              "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                              wow, so if you go on vacation and come
                              back w/a beautiful tan -- you are of
                              another race to some people, shame.

                              Lynne

                              "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                              <golanv1@...>
                              wrote:
                              "

                              Thank you for this point!

                              I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                              get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                              how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                              Raven
                               

                              ----- Original Message ----


                              Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                              "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                              That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                              And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                              Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                              Related Link:
                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                               


                              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                              "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                              Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                              does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                              A group of siblings can be born of the same
                              two parents and be of different shades.
                              Mixed-Race people come in many different
                              shades from very light to very dark.
                              Genes have a mind of their own.

                              Lynne


                              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                              "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                              Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                              thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------  --------- ---------


                              Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                              Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                              Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON

                               Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                      is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                      Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                               Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                     the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                              Question:    
                              (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                              I agree with you, but what about Frank
                              Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                              Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                              Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                              Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                              by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                              Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                              no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                              Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                              his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                              himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                              The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                              scientist
                              Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                              way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                              also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                              the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                              Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                              biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                              Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                              about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                              found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                              Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                              the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                              done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                              (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                              Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                              field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                              ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                              the multiple generations of their various families.

                              They have proven the same thing in regards to
                              North African, East African, Polynesian

                              and Aboriginal populations as well.

                              In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                              and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                              is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                              chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                              MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                              admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                              of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                              lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                              refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                              Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                              composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                              on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                              (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                              has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                              In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                              the rather obvious
                              Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                              Here is more information to support the studies,
                              the claims and the conclusions of
                              the world's leading
                              Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                              Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                              of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                              world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                              to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                              groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                              [[[[

                              Most AAs have 20-30% European
                              & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                              The figures listed below clearly support data
                              repeatedly presented that says most people
                              who are
                              born to two parents who are both
                              members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                              `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                              the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                              .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                              European and a +25% Amerindian
                              ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                              [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                              group known as African-American (AA) is
                              not
                              the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                              group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                              Some data is available via an internet link – other
                              may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                              THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                              that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                              *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                              these same groups; estimates of the
                              European-American genetic contribution to the
                              African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                              …

                              In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                              and European-Americans may have occurred to
                              different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                              contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                              of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                              Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                              U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                              as they are defined primarily by cultural
                              criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                              27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                              Y-chromosomes were determined to
                              be of European-American ancestry
                              …
                              the resulting estimate of the European-American
                              genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                              32.6%, which is not significantly different
                              from the estimate of 33.6%...

                              We found no significant heterogeneity among
                              regional groups of African-Americans …........
                              the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                              with European-Americans is thought to have
                              varied across different geographic regions
                              of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                              admixture observed in Northern groups …
                              other studies find a more complex relationship between
                              the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                              Our estimates of the European-American
                              genetic contribution to African-Americans
                              are quite similar across regional geographic
                              groups and do not vary significantly …

                              A further complicating factor is migration among
                              geographic regions within the United States …
                              migration of African-Americans within
                              the United States may have been extensive …

                              The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                              in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                              types may thus reflect this …

                              Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                              have generally found ~20% European genetic
                              contribution to African-American populations …


                              Our results indicate substantially
                              higher contribution of European-American
                              Y-chromosome
                              (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                              disparity
                              in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                              versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                              contribution of European-American men

                              than women to African-Americans
                              during the slavery period.


                              Our results support the view that the dynamics
                              of the European-American genetic contribution
                              to African-Americans is more complicated than
                              a simple north-south division would suggest …

                              The European-American genetic
                              contribution to African-Americans was
                              estimated by two different methods
                              .

                              --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                              that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                              as the molecular distance among alleles …

                              --- The second method is an assignment test …
                              calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                              SOURCE:
                              [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                              Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                              Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                              microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                              Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                              Anthropological measurement:
                              The mismeasure of African Americans.
                              Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                              Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                              Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                              D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                              Estimating African American admixture proportions
                              by use of population-specific alleles.
                              Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                              http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                              FACT:

                              *****"African Americans, on the average,
                              have … 30% European ancestry.
                              Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                              Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                              different racial groups have different rates
                              of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                              make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                              SOURCE:
                              [[
                              http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                              And it is also recommended that people either
                              purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                              library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                              -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                              the world's leading geneticist and director
                              of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                              – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                              European admixture found within
                              the ancestral
                              lineage of the average person who is a member
                              of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                              FACT:

                              [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                              African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                              While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                              or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                              sometimes used to refer to people of
                              mixed parentage and,
                              despite its origin.]]

                              SOURCE:
                              http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                              http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                              http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                              Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                              the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                              in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                              group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                              ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                              [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                              was an expression of social status (value)
                              of particular groups in society.

                              Race was considered by the "White" elite
                              as a natural distinction in human identity.

                              Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                              counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                              until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                              categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                              Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                              they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                              did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                              The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                              population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                              Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                              given citizenship,
                              they began to be classified in a
                              single racial category according to the US census.

                              The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                              "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                              under the term "colored") for free African descended
                              people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                              term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                              "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                              The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                              classify admixed people in the US census
                              supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                              of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                              hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                              had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                              For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                              defined as including anyone having
                              any percentage of African blood.

                              "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                              skin by census enumerators and was not
                              based on genealogical history.

                              It referred to people in whom the mixture
                              of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                              [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                              'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                              reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                              their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                              numeration if the census worker decided that they
                              would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                              In addition, many people who were actually
                              of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                              erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                              The 1890 census "refined"
                              this admixed racial category:

                              Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                              "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                              mulatto parent and the other white) and
                              "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                              one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                              to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                              The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                              and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                              census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                              Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                              for admixed populations was eventually
                              substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                              on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                              The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                              of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                              returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                              The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                              against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                              and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                              It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                              was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                              From then until the 2000 census,
                              racial classification in the United States did
                              not give any room for multiracial classification.

                              Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                              number of persons checked the "other"
                              race category and specified that they
                              belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                              The concept of race based on ancestry in
                              the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                              of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                              difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                              SOURCE:

                              http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                              MORE COMMENTARY:

                              [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                              African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                              While not as common as "mixed" or as
                              "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                              still sometimes used to refer to people of
                              mixed parentage and,
                              despite its origin.]]

                              SOURCE:

                              http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                              http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                              http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                              "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                              I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                              there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                              I want to hear your comment on that one.


                              "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                               Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                               Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                              .

                               Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                      is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                      Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                               Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                     the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture
                            • Wendy Arimah
                              In my case, I too was called Puerto Rican for the longest. Or people thought my mother was Filipino and my father was East Indian. Jeff, I also know the
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In my case, I too was called 'Puerto Rican'
                                for the longest. Or people thought my mother
                                was Filipino and my father was East Indian.

                                Jeff, I also know the black 'whisper'.

                                Once when a Hispanic co-worker was talking
                                about a fellow co-worker and whispered
                                'The lady at the desk, the 'black' one.'
                                I asked 'why are you whispering,
                                does she not know she's ‘black’?'
                                I got the craziest look from him.
                                Oh well, I tend to point out things like that
                                to people who make those statements or gestures.
                                Hopefully, they'll think twice before doing or saying again.

                                This is me.
                                 
                                That's a great pic Jeff  -- and the 'shaved-head' really works for you.:)
                                It's like you've got the whole Vin Diesel thing going for you. =D>


                                 j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

                                I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                                brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                                things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                                while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                                As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                                Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                                http://viewmorepics .myspace. com/index. cfm?fuseaction= viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                                 
                                Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                                to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                                One thing I laugh about is when white people
                                say "black" they lower their voices and look
                                around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                                I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                                the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw. 
                                 
                                "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                                <golanv1@yahoo. com>
                                wrote:

                                I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                Raven

                                ----- Original Message ----


                                "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@gmail. com> wrote:

                                wow, so if you go on vacation and come
                                back w/a beautiful tan -- you are of
                                another race to some people, shame.

                                Lynne

                                "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                                <golanv1@yahoo. com>
                                wrote:
                                "

                                Thank you for this point!

                                I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                Raven
                                 

                                ----- Original Message ----


                                Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                Related Link:
                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                 


                                In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                two parents and be of different shades.
                                Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                shades from very light to very dark.
                                Genes have a mind of their own.

                                Lynne


                                In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                                Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                                thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------  --------- ---------


                                Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                                Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON

                                 Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                        is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                        Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                 Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                       the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                                Question:    
                                (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                                I agree with you, but what about Frank
                                Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                                Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                                Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                                by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                                Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                                no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                                Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                                his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                                himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                                The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                                scientist
                                Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                                way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                                also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                                the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                                Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                                biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                                Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                                about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                                found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                                Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                                the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                                done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                                (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                                Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                                field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                                ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                                the multiple generations of their various families.

                                They have proven the same thing in regards to
                                North African, East African, Polynesian

                                and Aboriginal populations as well.

                                In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                                and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                                is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                                chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                                MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                                admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                                of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                                lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                                refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                                Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                                composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                                on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                                (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                                has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                                In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                                the rather obvious
                                Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                                Here is more information to support the studies,
                                the claims and the conclusions of
                                the world's leading
                                Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                                Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                                of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                                world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                                to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                                groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                                [[[[

                                Most AAs have 20-30% European
                                & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                                The figures listed below clearly support data
                                repeatedly presented that says most people
                                who are
                                born to two parents who are both
                                members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                                `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                                the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                                .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                                European and a +25% Amerindian
                                ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                                [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                                group known as African-American (AA) is
                                not
                                the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                                group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                                Some data is available via an internet link – other
                                may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                                THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                                that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                                *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                                these same groups; estimates of the
                                European-American genetic contribution to the
                                African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                                …

                                In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                                and European-Americans may have occurred to
                                different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                                contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                                of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                                Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                                U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                                as they are defined primarily by cultural
                                criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                                27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                                Y-chromosomes were determined to
                                be of European-American ancestry
                                …
                                the resulting estimate of the European-American
                                genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                                32.6%, which is not significantly different
                                from the estimate of 33.6%...

                                We found no significant heterogeneity among
                                regional groups of African-Americans …........
                                the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                                with European-Americans is thought to have
                                varied across different geographic regions
                                of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                                admixture observed in Northern groups …
                                other studies find a more complex relationship between
                                the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                                Our estimates of the European-American
                                genetic contribution to African-Americans
                                are quite similar across regional geographic
                                groups and do not vary significantly …

                                A further complicating factor is migration among
                                geographic regions within the United States …
                                migration of African-Americans within
                                the United States may have been extensive …

                                The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                                in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                                types may thus reflect this …

                                Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                                have generally found ~20% European genetic
                                contribution to African-American populations …


                                Our results indicate substantially
                                higher contribution of European-American
                                Y-chromosome
                                (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                                disparity
                                in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                                versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                                contribution of European-American men

                                than women to African-Americans
                                during the slavery period.


                                Our results support the view that the dynamics
                                of the European-American genetic contribution
                                to African-Americans is more complicated than
                                a simple north-south division would suggest …

                                The European-American genetic
                                contribution to African-Americans was
                                estimated by two different methods
                                .

                                --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                                that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                                as the molecular distance among alleles …

                                --- The second method is an assignment test …
                                calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                                SOURCE:
                                [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                                Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                                Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                                microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                                Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                                Anthropological measurement:
                                The mismeasure of African Americans.
                                Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                                Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                                Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                                D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                                Estimating African American admixture proportions
                                by use of population-specific alleles.
                                Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                                http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                                FACT:

                                *****"African Americans, on the average,
                                have … 30% European ancestry.
                                Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                                Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                                different racial groups have different rates
                                of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                                make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                                SOURCE:
                                [[
                                http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                                And it is also recommended that people either
                                purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                                library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                                -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                                the world's leading geneticist and director
                                of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                                – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                                European admixture found within
                                the ancestral
                                lineage of the average person who is a member
                                of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                                FACT:

                                [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                                African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                                While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                                or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                                sometimes used to refer to people of
                                mixed parentage and,
                                despite its origin.]]

                                SOURCE:
                                http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                                http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                                Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                                the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                                in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                                group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                                [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                                was an expression of social status (value)
                                of particular groups in society.

                                Race was considered by the "White" elite
                                as a natural distinction in human identity.

                                Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                                counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                                until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                                categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                                Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                                they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                                did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                                The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                                population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                                Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                                given citizenship,
                                they began to be classified in a
                                single racial category according to the US census.

                                The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                                "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                                under the term "colored") for free African descended
                                people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                                term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                                "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                                The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                                classify admixed people in the US census
                                supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                                of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                                hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                                had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                                For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                                defined as including anyone having
                                any percentage of African blood.

                                "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                                skin by census enumerators and was not
                                based on genealogical history.

                                It referred to people in whom the mixture
                                of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                                [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                                'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                                reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                                their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                                numeration if the census worker decided that they
                                would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                                In addition, many people who were actually
                                of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                                erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                                The 1890 census "refined"
                                this admixed racial category:

                                Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                                "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                                mulatto parent and the other white) and
                                "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                                one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                                to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                                The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                                and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                                census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                                Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                                for admixed populations was eventually
                                substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                                on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                                The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                                of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                                returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                                The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                                against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                                and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                                It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                                was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                                From then until the 2000 census,
                                racial classification in the United States did
                                not give any room for multiracial classification.

                                Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                                number of persons checked the "other"
                                race category and specified that they
                                belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                                The concept of race based on ancestry in
                                the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                                of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                                difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                                SOURCE:

                                http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                                MORE COMMENTARY:

                                [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                                African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                                While not as common as "mixed" or as
                                "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                                still sometimes used to refer to people of
                                mixed parentage and,
                                despite its origin.]]

                                SOURCE:

                                http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                                http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                                I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                                there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                                I want to hear your comment on that one.


                                "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                 Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                                 Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                                .

                                 Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                        is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                        Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                 Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                       the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture


                                Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

                              • phillymom35
                                Oh yes,.. like was mentioned .because I am of-color, others of-color tend speak freely around me but when something is said that I find offensive and
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 22, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Oh yes,.. like was mentioned .because I am of-color,
                                  others of-color tend speak freely around me but when
                                  something is said that I find offensive and identify with it...
                                  I have no problem with telling them.
                                  But of course I get these funny looks whether it was a White,
                                  Black, or Indian remark they said and we all know there's going
                                  be one in the group that will say ”Why are you upset?'
                                  It's just joke'' and I say “No, it's ignorance,
                                  an insult to me”, then comes the ''How come ''?
                                  I'll give you another instance, some years ago I was at a
                                  relatives’ for a dinner …she had some friends over, we
                                  were conversing & talking about our ancestry etc, some
                                  were saying they were of this one or another … when this
                                  guy said “No, No, No.. I'm talking about the ''REAL ones''...
                                  The real Indians!....[What.??????]..DUH!
                                  Have a great night everyone and a
                                  good and productive day tomorrow.

                                  j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                                  I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                                  brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                                  things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                                  while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                                  As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                                  Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                                  http://viewmorepics .myspace. com/index. cfm?fuseaction= viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                                   
                                  Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                                  to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                                  One thing I laugh about is when white people
                                  say "black" they lower their voices and look
                                  around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                                  I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                                  the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw.

                                   
                                  "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                  I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                  Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                  Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                  Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                  goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                  occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                  So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                  they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                  those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                  don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                  I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                  Raven


                                  ----- Original Message ----

                                  From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                                  To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                                  Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"


                                  wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                                  tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                                   
                                  Lynne


                                  From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                  [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                                  On Behalf Of
                                  Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                  Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                                  To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                                  as a "light-skinned Black"
                                   

                                  Thank you for this point!
                                   
                                  I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                  get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                  how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                   
                                  Raven
                                   

                                  ----- Original Message ----


                                  Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                  That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                  And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                  Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                  Related Link:
                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                   


                                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                  "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                  Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                  does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                  A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                  two parents and be of different shades.
                                  Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                  shades from very light to very dark.
                                  Genes have a mind of their own.

                                  Lynne


                                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                                  Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                                  thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                                  Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                                   Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".
                                   Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.
                                   Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                          is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                          Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                   Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                         the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                                  Question:    
                                  (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                                  I agree with you, but what about Frank
                                  Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                                  Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                  Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                                  Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                                  by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                                  Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                                  no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                                  Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                                  his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                                  himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                                  The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                                  scientist
                                  Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                                  way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                                  also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                                  the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                                  Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                                  biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                                  Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                                  about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                                  found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                                  Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                                  the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                                  done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                                  (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                                  Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                                  field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                                  ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                                  the multiple generations of their various families.

                                  They have proven the same thing in regards to
                                  North African, East African, Polynesian

                                  and Aboriginal populations as well.

                                  In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                                  and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                                  is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                                  chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                                  MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                                  admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                                  of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                                  lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                                  refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                                  Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                                  composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                                  on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                                  (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                                  has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                                  In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                                  the rather obvious
                                  Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                                  Here is more information to support the studies,
                                  the claims and the conclusions of
                                  the world's leading
                                  Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                                  Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                                  of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                                  world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                                  to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                                  groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                                  [[[[

                                  Most AAs have 20-30% European
                                  & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                                  The figures listed below clearly support data
                                  repeatedly presented that says most people
                                  who are
                                  born to two parents who are both
                                  members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                                  `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                                  the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                                  .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                                  European and a +25% Amerindian
                                  ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                                  [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                                  group known as African-American (AA) is
                                  not
                                  the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                                  group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                                  Some data is available via an internet link – other
                                  may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                                  THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                                  that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                                  *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                                  these same groups; estimates of the
                                  European-American genetic contribution to the
                                  African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                                  …

                                  In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                                  and European-Americans may have occurred to
                                  different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                                  contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                                  of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                                  Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                                  U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                                  as they are defined primarily by cultural
                                  criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                                  27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                                  Y-chromosomes were determined to
                                  be of European-American ancestry
                                  …
                                  the resulting estimate of the European-American
                                  genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                                  32.6%, which is not significantly different
                                  from the estimate of 33.6%...

                                  We found no significant heterogeneity among
                                  regional groups of African-Americans …........
                                  the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                                  with European-Americans is thought to have
                                  varied across different geographic regions
                                  of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                                  admixture observed in Northern groups …
                                  other studies find a more complex relationship between
                                  the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                                  Our estimates of the European-American
                                  genetic contribution to African-Americans
                                  are quite similar across regional geographic
                                  groups and do not vary significantly …

                                  A further complicating factor is migration among
                                  geographic regions within the United States …
                                  migration of African-Americans within
                                  the United States may have been extensive …

                                  The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                                  in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                                  types may thus reflect this …

                                  Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                                  have generally found ~20% European genetic
                                  contribution to African-American populations …


                                  Our results indicate substantially
                                  higher contribution of European-American
                                  Y-chromosome
                                  (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                                  disparity
                                  in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                                  versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                                  contribution of European-American men

                                  than women to African-Americans
                                  during the slavery period.


                                  Our results support the view that the dynamics
                                  of the European-American genetic contribution
                                  to African-Americans is more complicated than
                                  a simple north-south division would suggest …

                                  The European-American genetic
                                  contribution to African-Americans was
                                  estimated by two different methods
                                  .

                                  --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                                  that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                                  as the molecular distance among alleles …

                                  --- The second method is an assignment test …
                                  calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                                  SOURCE:
                                  [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                                  Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                                  Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                                  microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                                  Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                                  Anthropological measurement:
                                  The mismeasure of African Americans.
                                  Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                                  Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                                  Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                                  D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                                  Estimating African American admixture proportions
                                  by use of population-specific alleles.
                                  Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                                  http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                                  FACT:

                                  *****"African Americans, on the average,
                                  have … 30% European ancestry.
                                  Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                                  Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                                  different racial groups have different rates
                                  of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                                  make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                                  SOURCE:
                                  [[
                                  http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                                  And it is also recommended that people either
                                  purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                                  library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                                  -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                                  the world's leading geneticist and director
                                  of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                                  – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                                  European admixture found within
                                  the ancestral
                                  lineage of the average person who is a member
                                  of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                                  FACT:

                                  [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                                  African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                                  While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                                  or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                                  sometimes used to refer to people of
                                  mixed parentage and,
                                  despite its origin.]]

                                  SOURCE:
                                  http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                  http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                                  http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                                  Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                                  the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                                  in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                                  group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                  ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                                  [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                                  was an expression of social status (value)
                                  of particular groups in society.

                                  Race was considered by the "White" elite
                                  as a natural distinction in human identity.

                                  Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                                  counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                                  until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                                  categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                                  Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                                  they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                                  did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                                  The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                                  population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                                  Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                                  given citizenship,
                                  they began to be classified in a
                                  single racial category according to the US census.

                                  The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                                  "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                                  under the term "colored") for free African descended
                                  people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                                  term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                                  "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                                  The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                                  classify admixed people in the US census
                                  supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                                  of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                                  hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                                  had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                                  For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                                  defined as including anyone having
                                  any percentage of African blood.

                                  "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                                  skin by census enumerators and was not
                                  based on genealogical history.

                                  It referred to people in whom the mixture
                                  of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                                  [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                                  'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                                  reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                                  their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                                  numeration if the census worker decided that they
                                  would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                                  In addition, many people who were actually
                                  of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                                  erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                                  The 1890 census "refined"
                                  this admixed racial category:

                                  Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                                  "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                                  mulatto parent and the other white) and
                                  "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                                  one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                                  to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                                  The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                                  and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                                  census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                                  Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                                  for admixed populations was eventually
                                  substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                                  on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                                  The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                                  of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                                  returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                                  The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                                  against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                                  and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                                  It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                                  was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                                  From then until the 2000 census,
                                  racial classification in the United States did
                                  not give any room for multiracial classification.

                                  Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                                  number of persons checked the "other"
                                  race category and specified that they
                                  belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                                  The concept of race based on ancestry in
                                  the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                                  of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                                  difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                                  SOURCE:

                                  http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                                  MORE COMMENTARY:

                                  [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                                  African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                                  While not as common as "mixed" or as
                                  "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                                  still sometimes used to refer to people of
                                  mixed parentage and,
                                  despite its origin.]]

                                  SOURCE:

                                  http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                  http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                                  http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                  "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                                  I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                                  there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                                  I want to hear your comment on that one.


                                  "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                   Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                                   Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                                  .

                                   Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                          is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                          Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                   Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                         the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"
                                   
                                   




                                  Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com


                                  Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
                                • j s
                                  No - not the Vin Diesel thing again! It s Yul Brunner dammit! ;) multiracialbookclub wrote: That s a great pic Jeff -- and
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 23, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    No - not the Vin Diesel thing again!  It's Yul Brunner dammit! ;)

                                    multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@...> wrote:
                                    That's a great pic Jeff  -- and the 'shaved-head' really works for you.:)
                                    It's like you've got the whole Vin Diesel thing going for you. =D>


                                     j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

                                    I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                                    brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                                    things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                                    while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                                    As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                                    Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                                    http://viewmorepics .myspace. com/index. cfm?fuseaction= viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                                     
                                    Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                                    to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                                    One thing I laugh about is when white people
                                    say "black" they lower their voices and look
                                    around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                                    I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                                    the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw. 
                                     
                                    "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                                    <golanv1@yahoo. com>
                                    wrote:

                                    I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                    I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                    Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                    Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                    Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                    goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                    occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                    So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                    they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                    those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                    don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                    I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                    Raven

                                    ----- Original Message ----


                                    "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@gmail. com> wrote:

                                    wow, so if you go on vacation and come
                                    back w/a beautiful tan -- you are of
                                    another race to some people, shame.

                                    Lynne

                                    "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler"
                                    <golanv1@yahoo. com>
                                    wrote:
                                    "

                                    Thank you for this point!

                                    I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                    get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                    how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                    Raven
                                     

                                    ----- Original Message ----


                                    Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                    That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                    And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                    Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                    Related Link:
                                    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                     


                                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                    "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                    Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                    does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                    A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                    two parents and be of different shades.
                                    Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                    shades from very light to very dark.
                                    Genes have a mind of their own.

                                    Lynne


                                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                                    Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                                    thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------  --------- ---------


                                    Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                                    Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                    Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON

                                     Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                            is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                            Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                     Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                           the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                                    Question:    
                                    (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                                    I agree with you, but what about Frank
                                    Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                                    Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                    Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                                    Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                                    by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                                    Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                                    no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                                    Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                                    his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                                    himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                                    The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                                    scientist
                                    Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                                    way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                                    also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                                    the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                                    Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                                    biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                                    Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                                    about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                                    found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                                    Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                                    the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                                    done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                                    (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                                    Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                                    field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                                    ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                                    the multiple generations of their various families.

                                    They have proven the same thing in regards to
                                    North African, East African, Polynesian

                                    and Aboriginal populations as well.

                                    In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                                    and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                                    is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                                    chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                                    MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                                    admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                                    of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                                    lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                                    refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                                    Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                                    composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                                    on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                                    (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                                    has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                                    In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                                    the rather obvious
                                    Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                                    Here is more information to support the studies,
                                    the claims and the conclusions of
                                    the world's leading
                                    Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                                    Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                                    of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                                    world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                                    to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                                    groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                                    [[[[

                                    Most AAs have 20-30% European
                                    & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                                    The figures listed below clearly support data
                                    repeatedly presented that says most people
                                    who are
                                    born to two parents who are both
                                    members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                                    `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                                    the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                                    .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                                    European and a +25% Amerindian
                                    ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                                    [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                                    group known as African-American (AA) is
                                    not
                                    the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                                    group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                                    Some data is available via an internet link – other
                                    may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                                    THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                                    that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                                    *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                                    these same groups; estimates of the
                                    European-American genetic contribution to the
                                    African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                                    …

                                    In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                                    and European-Americans may have occurred to
                                    different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                                    contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                                    of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                                    Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                                    U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                                    as they are defined primarily by cultural
                                    criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                                    27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                                    Y-chromosomes were determined to
                                    be of European-American ancestry
                                    …
                                    the resulting estimate of the European-American
                                    genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                                    32.6%, which is not significantly different
                                    from the estimate of 33.6%...

                                    We found no significant heterogeneity among
                                    regional groups of African-Americans …........
                                    the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                                    with European-Americans is thought to have
                                    varied across different geographic regions
                                    of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                                    admixture observed in Northern groups …
                                    other studies find a more complex relationship between
                                    the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                                    Our estimates of the European-American
                                    genetic contribution to African-Americans
                                    are quite similar across regional geographic
                                    groups and do not vary significantly …

                                    A further complicating factor is migration among
                                    geographic regions within the United States …
                                    migration of African-Americans within
                                    the United States may have been extensive …

                                    The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                                    in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                                    types may thus reflect this …

                                    Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                                    have generally found ~20% European genetic
                                    contribution to African-American populations …


                                    Our results indicate substantially
                                    higher contribution of European-American
                                    Y-chromosome
                                    (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                                    disparity
                                    in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                                    versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                                    contribution of European-American men

                                    than women to African-Americans
                                    during the slavery period.


                                    Our results support the view that the dynamics
                                    of the European-American genetic contribution
                                    to African-Americans is more complicated than
                                    a simple north-south division would suggest …

                                    The European-American genetic
                                    contribution to African-Americans was
                                    estimated by two different methods
                                    .

                                    --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                                    that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                                    as the molecular distance among alleles …

                                    --- The second method is an assignment test …
                                    calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                                    SOURCE:
                                    [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                                    Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                                    Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                                    microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                                    Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                                    Anthropological measurement:
                                    The mismeasure of African Americans.
                                    Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                                    Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                                    Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                                    D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                                    Estimating African American admixture proportions
                                    by use of population-specific alleles.
                                    Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                                    http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                                    FACT:

                                    *****"African Americans, on the average,
                                    have … 30% European ancestry.
                                    Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                                    Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                                    different racial groups have different rates
                                    of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                                    make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                                    SOURCE:
                                    [[
                                    http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                                    And it is also recommended that people either
                                    purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                                    library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                                    -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                                    the world's leading geneticist and director
                                    of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                                    – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                                    European admixture found within
                                    the ancestral
                                    lineage of the average person who is a member
                                    of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                                    FACT:

                                    [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                                    African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                                    While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                                    or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                                    sometimes used to refer to people of
                                    mixed parentage and,
                                    despite its origin.]]

                                    SOURCE:
                                    http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                    http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                                    http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                                    Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                                    the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                                    in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                                    group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                    ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                                    [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                                    was an expression of social status (value)
                                    of particular groups in society.

                                    Race was considered by the "White" elite
                                    as a natural distinction in human identity.

                                    Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                                    counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                                    until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                                    categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                                    Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                                    they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                                    did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                                    The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                                    population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                                    Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                                    given citizenship,
                                    they began to be classified in a
                                    single racial category according to the US census.

                                    The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                                    "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                                    under the term "colored") for free African descended
                                    people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                                    term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                                    "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                                    The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                                    classify admixed people in the US census
                                    supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                                    of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                                    hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                                    had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                                    For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                                    defined as including anyone having
                                    any percentage of African blood.

                                    "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                                    skin by census enumerators and was not
                                    based on genealogical history.

                                    It referred to people in whom the mixture
                                    of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                                    [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                                    'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                                    reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                                    their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                                    numeration if the census worker decided that they
                                    would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                                    In addition, many people who were actually
                                    of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                                    erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                                    The 1890 census "refined"
                                    this admixed racial category:

                                    Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                                    "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                                    mulatto parent and the other white) and
                                    "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                                    one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                                    to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                                    The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                                    and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                                    census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                                    Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                                    for admixed populations was eventually
                                    substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                                    on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                                    The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                                    of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                                    returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                                    The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                                    against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                                    and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                                    It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                                    was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                                    From then until the 2000 census,
                                    racial classification in the United States did
                                    not give any room for multiracial classification.

                                    Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                                    number of persons checked the "other"
                                    race category and specified that they
                                    belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                                    The concept of race based on ancestry in
                                    the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                                    of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                                    difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                                    SOURCE:

                                    http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                                    MORE COMMENTARY:

                                    [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                                    African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                                    While not as common as "mixed" or as
                                    "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                                    still sometimes used to refer to people of
                                    mixed parentage and,
                                    despite its origin.]]

                                    SOURCE:

                                    http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                    http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                                    http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                    "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                                    I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                                    there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                                    I want to hear your comment on that one.


                                    "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                     Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                                     Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                                    .

                                     Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                            is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                            Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                     Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                           the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture


                                    Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                                  • Tyrone Anderson
                                    Hello Carla You actually are Mixed -- not (Bi-Racially) -- but Ethnically-Mixed. We tend to think in terms of 4 races of the world white black red yellow.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 23, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello Carla

                                      You actually are 'Mixed' -- not
                                      (Bi-Racially) -- but Ethnically-Mixed.

                                      You actually are 'Mixed' -- not (Bi-Racially) -- but Ethnically-Mixed.

                                      We tend to think in terms of 4 races of the world white black
                                      red yellow. But Germans have a particular ethnic look and
                                      makeup about them as well as the French (more apparent the
                                      further South you go) Scotts & Irish most definately.

                                      Carla Stevens <annabannana@...> wrote:

                                      Hi Raven,

                                      I am not Mixed. I am German, French, Scottish, Irish.
                                      My Daughter is Mixed. Anna's Father is African American
                                      and I think a little Native American. Anna does not really
                                      “look Mixed”. She is medium brown maybe a little lighter.

                                      Her Dad thinks that my freckles contributed to her
                                      skin color because freckles are melanin as well
                                      (if that's the correct spelling?) I don't know
                                      if he is correct but it kind of makes sense. I am
                                      very light but I have a lot of freckles. My Daughter
                                      doesn't have any freckles yet. She is only 21 months old


                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      From: Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:29 PM
                                      Subject: Re: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                      I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                      I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                      Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                      Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                      Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                      goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                      occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                      So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                      they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                      those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                      don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                      I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                      Raven
                                       

                                      ----- Original Message ----

                                      From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                                      To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                                      Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                      wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                                      tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                                       
                                      Lynne

                                      From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                      [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                                      On Behalf Of
                                      Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                      Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                                      To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                                      as a "light-skinned Black"
                                       
                                      Thank you for this point!
                                       
                                      I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                      get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                      how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                       
                                      Raven
                                       

                                      ----- Original Message ----


                                      Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                      That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                      And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                      Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                      Related Link:
                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                       


                                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                      "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                      Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                      does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                      A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                      two parents and be of different shades.
                                      Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                      shades from very light to very dark.
                                      Genes have a mind of their own.

                                      Lynne


                                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                                      Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                                      thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                                      Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                                       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".
                                       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.
                                       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                              is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                                      Question:    
                                      (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                                      I agree with you, but what about Frank
                                      Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                                      Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                      Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                                      Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                                      by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                                      Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                                      no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                                      Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                                      his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                                      himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                                      The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                                      scientist
                                      Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                                      way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                                      also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                                      the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                                      Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                                      biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                                      Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                                      about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                                      found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                                      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                                      the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                                      done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                                      (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                                      Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                                      field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                                      ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                                      the multiple generations of their various families.

                                      They have proven the same thing in regards to
                                      North African, East African, Polynesian

                                      and Aboriginal populations as well.

                                      In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                                      and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                                      is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                                      chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                                      MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                                      admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                                      of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                                      lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                                      refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                                      Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                                      composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                                      on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                                      (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                                      has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                                      In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                                      the rather obvious
                                      Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                                      Here is more information to support the studies,
                                      the claims and the conclusions of
                                      the world's leading
                                      Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                                      Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                                      of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                                      world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                                      to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                                      groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                                      [[[[

                                      Most AAs have 20-30% European
                                      & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                                      The figures listed below clearly support data
                                      repeatedly presented that says most people
                                      who are
                                      born to two parents who are both
                                      members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                                      `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                                      the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                                      .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                                      European and a +25% Amerindian
                                      ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                                      [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                                      group known as African-American (AA) is
                                      not
                                      the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                                      group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                                      Some data is available via an internet link – other
                                      may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                                      THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                                      that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                                      *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                                      these same groups; estimates of the
                                      European-American genetic contribution to the
                                      African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                                      …

                                      In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                                      and European-Americans may have occurred to
                                      different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                                      contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                                      of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                                      Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                                      U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                                      as they are defined primarily by cultural
                                      criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                                      27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                                      Y-chromosomes were determined to
                                      be of European-American ancestry
                                      …
                                      the resulting estimate of the European-American
                                      genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                                      32.6%, which is not significantly different
                                      from the estimate of 33.6%...

                                      We found no significant heterogeneity among
                                      regional groups of African-Americans …........
                                      the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                                      with European-Americans is thought to have
                                      varied across different geographic regions
                                      of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                                      admixture observed in Northern groups …
                                      other studies find a more complex relationship between
                                      the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                                      Our estimates of the European-American
                                      genetic contribution to African-Americans
                                      are quite similar across regional geographic
                                      groups and do not vary significantly …

                                      A further complicating factor is migration among
                                      geographic regions within the United States …
                                      migration of African-Americans within
                                      the United States may have been extensive …

                                      The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                                      in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                                      types may thus reflect this …

                                      Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                                      have generally found ~20% European genetic
                                      contribution to African-American populations …


                                      Our results indicate substantially
                                      higher contribution of European-American
                                      Y-chromosome
                                      (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                                      disparity
                                      in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                                      versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                                      contribution of European-American men

                                      than women to African-Americans
                                      during the slavery period.


                                      Our results support the view that the dynamics
                                      of the European-American genetic contribution
                                      to African-Americans is more complicated than
                                      a simple north-south division would suggest …

                                      The European-American genetic
                                      contribution to African-Americans was
                                      estimated by two different methods
                                      .

                                      --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                                      that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                                      as the molecular distance among alleles …

                                      --- The second method is an assignment test …
                                      calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                                      SOURCE:
                                      [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                                      Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                                      Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                                      microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                                      Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                                      Anthropological measurement:
                                      The mismeasure of African Americans.
                                      Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                                      Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                                      Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                                      D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                                      Estimating African American admixture proportions
                                      by use of population-specific alleles.
                                      Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                                      http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                                      FACT:

                                      *****"African Americans, on the average,
                                      have … 30% European ancestry.
                                      Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                                      Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                                      different racial groups have different rates
                                      of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                                      make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                                      SOURCE:
                                      [[
                                      http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                                      And it is also recommended that people either
                                      purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                                      library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                                      -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                                      the world's leading geneticist and director
                                      of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                                      – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                                      European admixture found within
                                      the ancestral
                                      lineage of the average person who is a member
                                      of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                                      FACT:

                                      [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                                      African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                                      While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                                      or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                                      sometimes used to refer to people of
                                      mixed parentage and,
                                      despite its origin.]]

                                      SOURCE:
                                      http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                      http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                                      http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                                      Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                                      the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                                      in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                                      group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                      ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                                      [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                                      was an expression of social status (value)
                                      of particular groups in society.

                                      Race was considered by the "White" elite
                                      as a natural distinction in human identity.

                                      Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                                      counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                                      until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                                      categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                                      Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                                      they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                                      did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                                      The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                                      population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                                      Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                                      given citizenship,
                                      they began to be classified in a
                                      single racial category according to the US census.

                                      The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                                      "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                                      under the term "colored") for free African descended
                                      people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                                      term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                                      "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                                      The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                                      classify admixed people in the US census
                                      supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                                      of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                                      hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                                      had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                                      For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                                      defined as including anyone having
                                      any percentage of African blood.

                                      "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                                      skin by census enumerators and was not
                                      based on genealogical history.

                                      It referred to people in whom the mixture
                                      of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                                      [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                                      'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                                      reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                                      their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                                      numeration if the census worker decided that they
                                      would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                                      In addition, many people who were actually
                                      of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                                      erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                                      The 1890 census "refined"
                                      this admixed racial category:

                                      Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                                      "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                                      mulatto parent and the other white) and
                                      "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                                      one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                                      to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                                      The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                                      and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                                      census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                                      Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                                      for admixed populations was eventually
                                      substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                                      on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                                      The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                                      of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                                      returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                                      The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                                      against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                                      and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                                      It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                                      was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                                      From then until the 2000 census,
                                      racial classification in the United States did
                                      not give any room for multiracial classification.

                                      Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                                      number of persons checked the "other"
                                      race category and specified that they
                                      belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                                      The concept of race based on ancestry in
                                      the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                                      of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                                      difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                                      SOURCE:

                                      http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                                      MORE COMMENTARY:

                                      [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                                      African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                                      While not as common as "mixed" or as
                                      "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                                      still sometimes used to refer to people of
                                      mixed parentage and,
                                      despite its origin.]]

                                      SOURCE:

                                      http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                      http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                                      http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                      "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                                      I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                                      there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                                      I want to hear your comment on that one.


                                      "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                       Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                                       Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                                      .

                                       Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                              is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                              Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                       Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                             the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"
                                       
                                       





                                      "Man would rather be a little higher than the apes, than a little lower than the angels." -"I am Black & I am White, and know there is no difference. Each one casts a shadow, and all shadows are dark." -Walter White:
                                       
                                    • Carla Stevens
                                      Thank you for pointing that out to me. You are right and I feel very foolish for having to have the obvious pointed out to me. I am really growing in this
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 23, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thank you for pointing that out to me. You are right and I
                                        feel very foolish for having to have the obvious pointed
                                        out to me. I am really growing in this group Thank you,

                                        Sincerly,

                                        Carla
                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:10 AM
                                        Subject: Re: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                        Hello Carla

                                        You actually are 'Mixed' -- not
                                        (Bi-Racially) -- but Ethnically-Mixed.

                                        We tend to think in terms of 4 races of the world white black
                                        red yellow. But Germans have a particular ethnic look and
                                        makeup about them as well as the French (more apparent the
                                        further South you go) Scotts Irish most definately.

                                        Carla Stevens <annabannana@ peoplepc. com> wrote:

                                        Hi Raven,

                                        I am not Mixed. I am German, French, Scottish, Irish.
                                        My Daughter is Mixed. Anna's Father is African American
                                        and I think a little Native American. Anna does not really
                                        “look Mixed”. She is medium brown maybe a little lighter.

                                        Her Dad thinks that my freckles contributed to her
                                        skin color because freckles are melanin as well
                                        (if that's the correct spelling?) I don't know
                                        if he is correct but it kind of makes sense. I am
                                        very light but I have a lot of freckles. My Daughter
                                        doesn't have any freckles yet. She is only 21 months old


                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        From: Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:29 PM
                                        Subject: Re: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                        I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                        I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                        Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                        Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                        Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                        goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                        occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                        So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                        they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                        those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                        don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                        I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                        Raven
                                         

                                        ----- Original Message ----

                                        From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                                        To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                                        Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                        wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                                        tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                                         
                                        Lynne

                                        From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                        [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                                        On Behalf Of
                                        Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                        Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                                        To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                                        as a "light-skinned Black"
                                         
                                        Thank you for this point!
                                         
                                        I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                        get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                        how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                         
                                        Raven
                                         

                                        ----- Original Message ----


                                        Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                        That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                        And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                        Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                        Related Link:
                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                         


                                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                        "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                        Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                        does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                        A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                        two parents and be of different shades.
                                        Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                        shades from very light to very dark.
                                        Genes have a mind of their own.

                                        Lynne


                                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:



                                        Listed below is an excerpt from post I made in 
                                        thread at another Mixed-Race discussion forum.


                                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------


                                        Statement(s) :       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)

                                         Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".
                                         Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON.
                                         Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                                is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                                Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                         Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                               the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"


                                        Question:    
                                        (from "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...>):

                                        I agree with you, but what about Frank
                                        Sweet's view that there are light skinned
                                        Africans -- without admixture -- in Africa ?


                                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

                                        Answer:       (from "wergifts2" <soaptalk@h.. .>)


                                        Here is my view in regards to the speculations presented
                                        by Mr. Sweet -- and thank you, by the way, for asking:

                                        Fraud Sweet is not a Geneticist and he has absolutely
                                        no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics.

                                        Sweet is simply an individual who, now having completed
                                        his Master's degree in History, enjoys falsely presenting
                                        himself as being an alleged expert in the field of Genetics.

                                        The TRUE expert in the field of Genetics is famed
                                        scientist
                                        Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who, by the
                                        way, is not only the world's leading Geneticist, but is
                                        also known as ' the Father of Modern Genetics' and is
                                        the Executive Director of 'The Human Genome Project').

                                        Dr. Cavelii-Sforza has proven repeatedly that various and
                                        biased speculations -- such as those consistently made by the
                                        Fraud Sweet's of the world -- wherein false claims are made
                                        about "light-complexioned / non-admixed populations being
                                        found in Africa " -- are simply without any merit whatsoever.

                                        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza and his team of the world's top experts in
                                        the field of Genetics (and multiple teams besides his) have
                                        done genetic studies on these light-complexioned Africans
                                        (who are falsely alleged to have been non-admixed people).

                                        Cavelli-Sforza' s team of the world's top experts in the
                                        field of Genetics -- has repeatedly proven that they were

                                        ALL of continually Mixed-Race lineage throughout
                                        the multiple generations of their various families.

                                        They have proven the same thing in regards to
                                        North African, East African, Polynesian

                                        and Aboriginal populations as well.

                                        In addition, Sweet (the guy with a Master's degree in History
                                        and no background whatsoever in the field of Genetics) ----
                                        is also one of those individuals who both believes in and who  
                                        chooses to tout the false so-called "statistic" that the various
                                        MGM-Mixed members of the largely (+70%) multi-racially
                                        admixed Ethnic group that is currently known by the misnomer
                                        of African-American (AA) actually have a White / European
                                        lineage of no more than a mere 18-20% (AND he also practically
                                        refuses to acknowledge any of their Amerindian lineage altogether).

                                        Dr. Cavelli-Sforza (the world's leading Geneticist) -- and his team
                                        composed of the world's top experts in the field of Genetics has --
                                        on the other hand -- repeatedly PROVEN that the average

                                        (+70%) person born to two parents who are of the AA 'Ethnic' group
                                        has a minimum White / European lineage of no less than 30%.

                                        In addition, his team is currently looking into studies on
                                        the rather obvious
                                        Amerindian lineage of the AAs as well.

                                        Here is more information to support the studies,
                                        the claims and the conclusions of
                                        the world's leading
                                        Geneticist and the Father of Modern Genetics -----
                                        Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza (who is the Executive Director
                                        of the Human Genome Project) --- and his team of the
                                        world's top experts in the field of Genetics in regards
                                        to the documented and proven Mixed-Race lineage of
                                        groups such as the so-called African-Americans (AAs):

                                        [[[[

                                        Most AAs have 20-30% European
                                        & +25% Amerindian Admixture


                                        The figures listed below clearly support data
                                        repeatedly presented that says most people
                                        who are
                                        born to two parents who are both
                                        members of the largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed
                                        `Ethnic' group that is currently referred to by
                                        the misnomer of `African-American' (AA) 
                                        .... have, on average, a +20%-30%
                                        European and a +25% Amerindian
                                        ancestral blood lineage admixture.

                                        [Note: The largely `Multi'-racially- Mixed `Ethnic'
                                        group known as African-American (AA) is
                                        not
                                        the same as the `Mono'-racial `Race'
                                        group known as `Black-American' (BA).]


                                        Some data is available via an internet link – other
                                        may require looking at a book or research thesis.

                                        THE FACTS regarding the +30% White European admixture
                                        that is found in the ancestral lineage of most (+70%) of all AAs

                                        *****"MtDNA data exist for many of
                                        these same groups; estimates of the
                                        European-American genetic contribution to the
                                        African-American gene pool were 27.5%-33.6%
                                        …

                                        In addition, admixture between African-Americans
                                        and European-Americans may have occurred to
                                        different extents in different parts of the U.S. further
                                        contributing to geographic structure in the patterns
                                        of genetic variation in African-American populations.

                                        Similar concerns hold for the other ethnic
                                        U.S. populations, in particular Hispanics,
                                        as they are defined primarily by cultural
                                        criteria and not geographic origin…. ~

                                        27.5%-33.6% of African-American
                                        Y-chromosomes were determined to
                                        be of European-American ancestry
                                        …
                                        the resulting estimate of the European-American
                                        genetic contribution to African-Americans was
                                        32.6%, which is not significantly different
                                        from the estimate of 33.6%...

                                        We found no significant heterogeneity among
                                        regional groups of African-Americans …........
                                        the amount of admixture of African-Americans
                                        with European-Americans is thought to have
                                        varied across different geographic regions
                                        of the U.S., with generally higher levels of
                                        admixture observed in Northern groups …
                                        other studies find a more complex relationship between
                                        the amount of admixture and geographic region ...…

                                        Our estimates of the European-American
                                        genetic contribution to African-Americans
                                        are quite similar across regional geographic
                                        groups and do not vary significantly …

                                        A further complicating factor is migration among
                                        geographic regions within the United States …
                                        migration of African-Americans within
                                        the United States may have been extensive …

                                        The lack of geographic heterogeneity observed
                                        in African-American mtDNA and Y-chromosome
                                        types may thus reflect this …

                                        Previous studies 'based on nuclear loci '
                                        have generally found ~20% European genetic
                                        contribution to African-American populations …


                                        Our results indicate substantially
                                        higher contribution of European-American
                                        Y-chromosome
                                        (27.5%-33.6% ) … this
                                        disparity
                                        in admixture estimates for the Y-chromosome
                                        versus mtDNA reflects the greater genetic
                                        contribution of European-American men

                                        than women to African-Americans
                                        during the slavery period.


                                        Our results support the view that the dynamics
                                        of the European-American genetic contribution
                                        to African-Americans is more complicated than
                                        a simple north-south division would suggest …

                                        The European-American genetic
                                        contribution to African-Americans was
                                        estimated by two different methods
                                        .

                                        --- The first method is based on a coalescent approach
                                        that incorporates both allele frequencies as well
                                        as the molecular distance among alleles …

                                        --- The second method is an assignment test …
                                        calculated on the basis of genotype frequencies …

                                        SOURCE:
                                        [[(Destro-Bisol, G., Maviglia, R., Caglia, A., Boschi, I. ,
                                        Spedini, G., Pascali, V., Clark, A., and Tishkoff, S. 1999.
                                        Estimating European admixture in African Americans by using
                                        microsatellites and a microsatellite haplotype (CD4/Alu).
                                        Hum. Genet. 104: 149-157 .Jackson, F. 2000.
                                        Anthropological measurement:
                                        The mismeasure of African Americans.
                                        Ann. Am. Acad. Pol. Soc. Sci. 568: 154-171 .
                                        Parra, E., Marcini, A., Akey, J., Martinson, J.,
                                        Batzer, M., Cooper, R., Forrester, T., Allison,
                                        D., Deka, R., Ferrell, R. 1998.
                                        Estimating African American admixture proportions
                                        by use of population-specific alleles.
                                        Am. J. Hum. Genet. 63: 1839-1851."
                                        http://www.shouxi. net/journal/ articleinfo. aspx?art_ id=43735]]]]

                                        FACT:

                                        *****"African Americans, on the average,
                                        have … 30% European ancestry.
                                        Skin color is an imperfect measure …

                                        Possibly the best method tests blood groups;
                                        different racial groups have different rates
                                        of certain blood groups, allowing one to
                                        make a statistical estimate of ancestry."

                                        SOURCE:
                                        [[
                                        http://www.findarti cles.com/ p/articles/ mi_g2699/ is_0005/ai_ 2699000597]]

                                        And it is also recommended that people either
                                        purchase of pick up a copy from their local
                                        library of the book "Genes, People and Languages"
                                        -- written by Dr. Luigi Cavelli-Sforza (who is
                                        the world's leading geneticist and director
                                        of the Human Genome Diversity Project).

                                        – wherein Dr. Cavelli-Sforza concludes a 30%
                                        European admixture found within
                                        the ancestral
                                        lineage of the average person who is a member
                                        of the African-American `ethnic' group.

                                        FACT:

                                        [[[Other … terms [used] to refer to
                                        African-Americans are mulatto and colored. …
                                        While not as common as "mixed" or "biracial,"
                                        or even "multiracial, " mulatto is still
                                        sometimes used to refer to people of
                                        mixed parentage and,
                                        despite its origin.]]

                                        SOURCE:
                                        http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                        http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c
                                        http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87 ]]]

                                        Listed below  are some links regarding the AAs and a brief essay on
                                        the impact that the dreaded, racist `One-Drop Rule' has had on them
                                        in acknowledging that they are a largely(+70) multi-racial `Ethnic'
                                        group – much like Latinos, Arabs, Metis, etc. are also Mixed-Race.

                                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                        ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY:

                                        [["From the very beginning, racial categorization
                                        was an expression of social status (value)
                                        of particular groups in society.

                                        Race was considered by the "White" elite
                                        as a natural distinction in human identity.

                                        Following the US Constitution, "Blacks" were
                                        counted as three-fifths of a person, and
                                        until 1850 "Blacks" in the US census were
                                        categorized as either "slave" or "free colored".

                                        Early censuses did not count Indians unless
                                        they were "Civilized" the latter being those who
                                        did not live on reservations and who paid taxes.

                                        The 1870 census classified the indigenous
                                        population as "Pure Indians" and "Half-breeds" .

                                        Only after 1924, when American Indians were
                                        given citizenship,
                                        they began to be classified in a
                                        single racial category according to the US census.

                                        The 1850 and 1860 censuses used the categories
                                        "Black" and "Mulatto" (tabulations would aggregate
                                        under the term "colored") for free African descended
                                        people, and from the 1910 to the 1930 census the
                                        term "Mulatto" was used again together with
                                        "Negro" to classify African descendents.

                                        The temporary usage of a term [mulatto] to
                                        classify admixed people in the US census
                                        supported the polygenist theory of the superiority
                                        of "Whites", which additionally contended that
                                        hybrid racial species were less fertile and
                                        had shorter life spans than pure-race persons.

                                        For this purpose, the class "Mulatto" was
                                        defined as including anyone having
                                        any percentage of African blood.

                                        "Mulatto" was perceived by the color of the
                                        skin by census enumerators and was not
                                        based on genealogical history.

                                        It referred to people in whom the mixture
                                        of "White" and "Black" was visible.

                                        [As a result, a lot of people who actually were
                                        'authentic mulattoes' -- yet had a phenotype which
                                        reflected more of their 'Black' lineage rather than
                                        their non-Black lineage -- were not included in the
                                        numeration if the census worker decided that they
                                        would choose to see them as 'Black' instead.

                                        In addition, many people who were actually
                                        of Quadroon or Octoroon lineage were
                                        erroneously listed as Mulatto prior to 1890.]

                                        The 1890 census "refined"
                                        this admixed racial category:

                                        Besides "Mulattos" it included the categories
                                        "Quadroon" (one Black grandparent or one
                                        mulatto parent and the other white) and
                                        "Octoroon" (a Black great-grandparent or
                                        one Quadroon parent and the other White)
                                        to further distinguish the level of Black blood.

                                        The "Mulatto" category remained in the 1910
                                        and 1920 censuses, but was dropped in 1930 by
                                        census officials who claimed it was inaccurate.

                                        Consistent with racist laws, the terminology
                                        for admixed populations was eventually
                                        substituted by "Non-White" categories based
                                        on the "One Drop of non-White Blood" rule.


                                        The 1930 US census stated that "a person
                                        of mixed White and Negro blood should be
                                        returned [classified] a Negro, …p.1741).

                                        The ideology behind the "One-Drop" rule was one
                                        against miscegenation  and shaped the "Black"
                                        and "White" racial divide of the US population.. ..

                                        It was not that admixture did not exist .... but that it
                                        was seen as something to be prevented and reduced.

                                        From then until the 2000 census,
                                        racial classification in the United States did
                                        not give any room for multiracial classification.

                                        Nonetheless, in earlier censuses, a small
                                        number of persons checked the "other"
                                        race category and specified that they
                                        belonged to multiple-race categories.…

                                        The concept of race based on ancestry in
                                        the US racial taxonomy and the absence
                                        of a multiracial category is likely to raise
                                        difficulties for many admixed people."]]

                                        SOURCE:

                                        http://www.scielo. br/scielo. php?script= sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X20040 00300003&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

                                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

                                        MORE COMMENTARY:

                                        [[[Other … terms [historically used] to refer to
                                        African-Americans are Mulatto and Colored. …

                                        While not as common as "mixed" or as
                                        "biracial," or even "multiracial, " mulatto is
                                        still sometimes used to refer to people of
                                        mixed parentage and,
                                        despite its origin.]]

                                        SOURCE:

                                        http://www.tea- center.com/ articles/ African_American
                                        http://www.ranau. net/articles/ African_American s?mySession= dcfbc604d85635cd 1bd4f54a0cf3933c

                                        http://www.1- bike.com/ articles/ African_American ?mySession= 267816c413c3b396 0847c142399cbf87

                                        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

                                        "chief_mulatto_ native" <zacariascaramelo@ ...> wrote:

                                        I agree with you, but what about Frank Sweet's view that
                                        there are light skinned Africans without admixture in Africa ?

                                        I want to hear your comment on that one.


                                        "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                         Fact #1)   There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black".

                                         Fact #2)   The term "light-skinned Black" is an OXYMORON
                                        .

                                         Fact #3)   If a person who has been categorized as "black"
                                                                is also "light skinned" that means that they are
                                                                Mixed-Race ... and that they are not 'Black'.

                                         Fact #4)   A person's Socio-Political "Identification" is not
                                                               the same thing as their "Ancestral Admixture"
                                         
                                         





                                        "Man would rather be a little higher than the apes, than a little lower than the angels." - "I am Black I am White, and know there is no difference. Each one casts a shadow, and all shadows are dark." -Walter White:

                                      • Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                        I get this, too. And sometimes, if I mention my heritage other than ‘Black’, other “black” folks kinda give me that vibe of Race traitor , which
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 23, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          I get this, too. And sometimes, if I mention my heritage other
                                          than ‘Black’, other “black” folks kinda give me that vibe of
                                          "Race traitor" , which means that I tend not to mention a lot
                                          of my heritage around some people. Add to that, the idea that
                                          if you are “black” and part White and Native, then both those
                                          admixtures ‘had to’ come from slavery. In my case, neither the Irish
                                          nor the Cherokee were from slavery. But try to tell some folks that!
                                           
                                          Raven

                                          ----- Original Message ----
                                          From: phillymom35 <phillymom35@...>
                                          To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:22:01 PM
                                          Subject: Re: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"

                                          Oh yes,.. like was mentioned .because I am of-color,
                                          others of-color tend speak freely around me but when
                                          something is said that I find offensive and identify with it...
                                          I have no problem with telling them.
                                          But of course I get these funny looks whether it was a White,
                                          Black, or Indian remark they said and we all know there's going
                                          be one in the group that will say ”Why are you upset?'
                                          It's just joke'' and I say “No, it's ignorance,
                                          an insult to me”, then comes the ''How come ''?
                                          I'll give you another instance, some years ago I was at a
                                          relatives’ for a dinner …she had some friends over, we
                                          were conversing talking about our ancestry etc, some
                                          were saying they were of this one or another … when this
                                          guy said “No, No, No.. I'm talking about the ''REAL ones''...
                                          The real Indians!.... [What.??? ???]..DUH!
                                          Have a great night everyone and a
                                          good and productive day tomorrow.

                                          j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                          I am basically pale with ( when it was there ) kind of golden
                                          brown hair that was very curly/kinky and full lips - two
                                          things that were a source of constant comments and teasing
                                          while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
                                          As I've grown older I seem to have "whitened" in my appearance.
                                          Up in the northeast most people think I'm a pale Hispanic

                                          http://viewmorepics .myspace. com/index. cfm?fuseaction= viewImage&friendID=6167090&imageID=200738263
                                           
                                          Usuallly I'm the guy they assume is white and get
                                          to overhear what's really on everyone's mind.
                                          One thing I laugh about is when white people
                                          say "black" they lower their voices and look
                                          around to see if anyone is within earshot.
                                          I even saw a guy do that the other day when using
                                          the term "slave" while describing a movie he saw.

                                           
                                          "Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler" <golanv1@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                          I tend to range from a light cinnamon to dark reddish brown;
                                          I'm a bit more than a quarter Cherokee, the rest is Mixed
                                          Black,Irish, and English. My features are very African/Native.
                                          Most folks think I'm Black/Puerto Rican, or Afro-Asian.
                                          Occasionally, people actually get the Irish. My hair
                                          goes from dark auburn to bright auburn/light brown, my eyes
                                          occasionally turn hazel/green, and I get freckles, like my Dad.

                                          So, I'm a weird Mix, and not what most people think of when
                                          they see a Mixed person. I'd kind of like to see some input from
                                          those of us who are Mixed -- but *not* particularly pale, or who
                                          don't have the more aquiline features of Whites. Though, actually,
                                          I come from a long line of those with that phenotype, as well.

                                          Raven


                                          ----- Original Message ----

                                          From: tlbaker1 <tlbaker1@gmail. com>
                                          To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:41:03 AM
                                          Subject: RAVEN ---- Re: There is no such thing as a "light-skinned Black"


                                          wow, so if you go on vacation and come back w/a beautiful
                                          tan -- you are of another race to some people, shame.
                                           
                                          Lynne


                                          From: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                          [mailto: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com ]
                                          On Behalf Of
                                          Erica (Raven) Branch-Butler
                                          Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM
                                          To: Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com
                                          Subject: Re: There is no such thing
                                          as a "light-skinned Black"
                                           

                                          Thank you for this point!
                                           
                                          I am Multi-Generationall y Mixed, and how I
                                          get treated by others, is usually cognate with
                                          how dark I am at any given time of the year.
                                           
                                          Raven
                                           

                                          ----- Original Message ----


                                          Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                          "wergifts2" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


                                          That is such an excellent point, Lynne !!!
                                          And I am in agreement with you, 100%!!

                                          Thanks for making mention of this fact !!!


                                          Related Link:
                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1402
                                           


                                          In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                          "tlbaker1" <tlbaker1@...> wrote:

                                          Also, because one's skin is not very light or dark
                                          does not indicate that they are not Mixed-Race.
                                          A group of siblings can be born of the same
                                          two parents and be of different shades.
                                          Mixed-Race people come in many different
                                          shades from very light to very dark.
                                          Genes have a mind of their own.

                                          Lynne


                                          In