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Re: [Generation-Mixed] A question that I would love to know the answer to.

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  • Philip Arnell
    I hear you Lynn, For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very predjudiced environment,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 27, 2006
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      I hear you Lynn,
       
      For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very predjudiced environment, some islands more than others, and there is the same thinking from different directinos, My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people. Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.
       
      My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair. The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded
       
      My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided to be content with that, shunning where they really came from. Partially becasue their parents never educated them and this passed down to their kids. The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are. Some relatives I have met on the street in the business disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just introduced me by my name , not by my relation to them.
       
      I have always been open to my background and have even been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose, I guess that is the slave mentality in them or the slave maters mentality for others. Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.
       
      Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

      wintyreeve@... wrote:
      [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background, I have met many
      ignorant people. They were not educated in regard to people
      in general. My question for the group is, within your own
      families, have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
      Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you or others at
      a distance keeping a family apart? If so, how did you handle it? ]]


      I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
      Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
      lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
      People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
      "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
      coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
      I would not say that my family is predjudiced
      against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

      1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
      choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
      2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity but out of fear, shame
      or denial choose to ignore it, and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

      And alot of this has to do with past experience and things passed down

      I would also say that living in the North is very different than living in the South, and that
      maybe the attitudes, and traditions of the environment also has shaped my family's reactions.

      I do my best to be open minded, and learn about other people's perspectives.
      If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point of view but I really don't try to
      change people. I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
      And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
      the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

      Blessings~ Lynn


      Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

    • j s
      The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well in the south. I remember hearing about the Paper bag test ( if you are darker than th ebag you
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 27, 2006
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        The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test" ( if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark ) , 'comb test' ( if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy ) and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.
         

        Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
        I hear you Lynn,
         
        For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very predjudiced environment, some islands more than others, and there is the same thinking from different directinos, My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people. Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.
         
        My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair. The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded
         
        My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided to be content with that, shunning where they really came from. Partially becasue their parents never educated them and this passed down to their kids. The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are. Some relatives I have met on the street in the business disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just introduced me by my name , not by my relation to them.
         
        I have always been open to my background and have even been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose, I guess that is the slave mentality in them or the slave maters mentality for others. Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.
         
        Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

        wintyreeve@... wrote:
        [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background, I have met many
        ignorant people. They were not educated in regard to people
        in general. My question for the group is, within your own
        families, have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
        Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you or others at
        a distance keeping a family apart? If so, how did you handle it? ]]


        I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
        Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
        lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
        People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
        "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
        coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
        I would not say that my family is predjudiced
        against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

        1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
        choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
        2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity but out of fear, shame
        or denial choose to ignore it, and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

        And alot of this has to do with past experience and things passed down

        I would also say that living in the North is very different than living in the South, and that
        maybe the attitudes, and traditions of the environment also has shaped my family's reactions.

        I do my best to be open minded, and learn about other people's perspectives.
        If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point of view but I really don't try to
        change people. I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
        And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
        the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

        Blessings~ Lynn


        Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.


        Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

      • Peter Barrett
        I agree Lynn and Phillip, I met my southern cousins for the first time six years ago and haven t seen them in five. We talk from time to time. They have told
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 27, 2006
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          I agree Lynn and Phillip,

          I met my southern cousins for the first time six years ago
          and haven't seen them in five. We talk from time to time.
          They have told as I researched the family interviews and
          history I probably wouldn't get back to Africa. I told
          them that Africa is a given and whatever I find is cool too.

          My cousin doesn't like when his father in-law speaks French or I
          should say Creole French. He said even though he understands it
          that is part of the old ways. Even though he says I can't get back
          to Africa he will not admit we are related to whites in another sense.

          It does seem the South would have a different
          outlook then a native Californian like myself.

          We jus had an 80th birthday gathering for my mother. I presented
          her with a book of our family tree that she has never seen.
          A lady looked at the names and places and began to tell me she
          new someone who was researching their family. She said the woman
          was upset that she traced her family to Spain instead of Africa.
          I told her that with our history you can end up anywhere.

          The hair item has always been an issue in our community, somewhat
          fading but not gone yet. All I ever hear about my grandfather is
          how Straight his hair was. I couldn't believe that was till talked
          about in the south and he had been gone from their 85 years and
          had passed 30 years already. That is still what comes to mind.

          I do know my great grandmother favored her light child over
          the browner. At least children thought so. My grandmother
          did the same with her children. We have been divided ever
          since. I haven't even spoken to the children of my mother's
          sister in 11 years. It is said but a harsh reality.

          There is nothing I can do to change it.
          I just make sure I raise my children differently.

          Thank you for all the great discussions.

          Peter

          In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
          Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

          I hear you Lynn,

          For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
          to a degree, but in all truth, the caribbean is a very
          predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
          and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
          My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
          Though they originated more than half from white settlers.
          They kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree.
          To this very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother
          as the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

          My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
          to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
          The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
          diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
          to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

          My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept
          of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
          to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
          Partially becasue their parents never.educated them and this passed
          down to their kids. The other reason is they chose to be ignorant,
          then there is another group that just abandoned their culture all
          together. And cringe at meeting unknown relatives that remind them
          of who they are. Some relatives I have met on the street in the
          business disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
          introduced me by my name , not by my relation to them.

          I have always been open to my background and have even been
          called a liar to it, and told i had to choose, I guess that is
          the slave mentality in them or the slave maters mentality for
          others. Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

          Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

          wintyreeve@... wrote:

          [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background, I have met many
          ignorant people. They were not educated in regard to people
          in general. My question for the group is, within your own
          families, have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
          Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you or others at
          a distance keeping a family apart? If so, how did you handle it? ]]


          I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
          Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
          lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
          People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
          "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
          coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
          I would not say that my family is predjudiced
          against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

          1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
          choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
          2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
          but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
          and go by the "monoracial" type they are labeled as.

          And alot of this has to do with past experience and things passed down

          I would also say that living in the North is very different than
          living in the South, and that maybe the attitudes, and traditions
          of the environment also has shaped my family's reactions.

          I do my best to be open minded, and learn about other people's
          perspectives. If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my
          point of view but I really don't try to change people.

          I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.

          And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
          the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

          Blessings~ Lynn
        • Philip Arnell
          Peter I love your last statement, I too raise my kids to emberace all cultures especially the ones they are a part of. My mothers grandfather I heard was into
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 27, 2006
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            Peter I love your last statement, I too raise my kids to emberace all cultures especially the ones they are a part of. My mothers grandfather I heard was into favoring the lighter kids over the darker. Racism is to different degrees for whatever reason but the bottom line is that it breaks people apart. Sometimes by design.
             
            In regard to my relatives I associate with them all but many of them only on a hi and by relationship becasue I know what they are abot, same with aunts and uncles. One wanted me to stop the research, that wasnt ever going to happen.

            I agree Lynn and Phillip,

            I met my southern cousins for the first time six years ago
            and haven't seen them in five. We talk from time to time.
            They have told as I researched the family interviews and
            history I probably wouldn't get back to Africa. I told
            them that Africa is a given and whatever I find is cool too.

            My cousin doesn't like when his father in-law speaks French or I
            should say Creole French. He said even though he understands it
            that is part of the old ways. Even though he says I can't get back
            to Africa he will not admit we are related to whites in another sense.

            It does seem the South would have a different
            outlook then a native Californian like myself.

            We jus had an 80th birthday gathering for my mother. I presented
            her with a book of our family tree that she has never seen.
            A lady looked at the names and places and began to tell me she
            new someone who was researching their family. She said the woman
            was upset that she traced her family to Spain instead of Africa.
            I told her that with our history you can end up anywhere.

            The hair item has always been an issue in our community, somewhat
            fading but not gone yet. All I ever hear about my grandfather is
            how Straight his hair was. I couldn't believe that was till talked
            about in the south and he had been gone from their 85 years and
            had passed 30 years already. That is still what comes to mind.

            I do know my great grandmother favored her light child over
            the browner. At least children thought so. My grandmother
            did the same with her children. We have been divided ever
            since. I haven't even spoken to the children of my mother's
            sister in 11 years. It is said but a harsh reality.

            There is nothing I can do to change it.
            I just make sure I raise my children differently.

            Thank you for all the great discussions.

            Peter

            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
            Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

            I hear you Lynn,

            For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
            to a degree, but in all truth, the caribbean is a very
            predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
            and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
            My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
            Though they originated more than half from white settlers.
            They kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree.
            To this very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother
            as the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

            My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
            to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
            The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
            diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
            to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

            My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept
            of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
            to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
            Partially becasue their parents never.educated them and this passed
            down to their kids. The other reason is they chose to be ignorant,
            then there is another group that just abandoned their culture all
            together. And cringe at meeting unknown relatives that remind them
            of who they are. Some relatives I have met on the street in the
            business disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
            introduced me by my name , not by my relation to them.

            I have always been open to my background and have even been
            called a liar to it, and told i had to choose, I guess that is
            the slave mentality in them or the slave maters mentality for
            others. Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

            Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

            wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

            [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background, I have met many
            ignorant people. They were not educated in regard to people
            in general. My question for the group is, within your own
            families, have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
            Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you or others at
            a distance keeping a family apart? If so, how did you handle it? ]]

            I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
            Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
            lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
            People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
            "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
            coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
            I would not say that my family is predjudiced
            against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

            1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
            choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
            2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
            but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
            and go by the "monoracial" type they are labeled as.

            And alot of this has to do with past experience and things passed down

            I would also say that living in the North is very different than
            living in the South, and that maybe the attitudes, and traditions
            of the environment also has shaped my family's reactions.

            I do my best to be open minded, and learn about other people's
            perspectives. If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my
            point of view but I really don't try to change people.

            I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.

            And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
            the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

            Blessings~ Lynn



            Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

          • Philip Arnell
            no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before. We all have our preferences, but come on, I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 27, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before. We all have our preferences, but come on, I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything. She stillwould have been a pain in the neck , lolol . I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

              j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
              The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test" ( if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark ) , 'comb test' ( if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy ) and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.
               

              Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
              I hear you Lynn,
               
              For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very predjudiced environment, some islands more than others, and there is the same thinking from different directinos, My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people. Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.
               
              My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair. The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded
               
              My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided to be content with that, shunning where they really came from. Partially becasue their parents never educated them and this passed down to their kids. The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are. Some relatives I have met on the street in the business disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just introduced me by my name , not by my relation to them.
               
              I have always been open to my background and have even been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose, I guess that is the slave mentality in them or the slave maters mentality for others. Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.
               
              Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

              wintyreeve@... wrote:
              [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background, I have met many
              ignorant people. They were not educated in regard to people
              in general. My question for the group is, within your own
              families, have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
              Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you or others at
              a distance keeping a family apart? If so, how did you handle it? ]]


              I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
              Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
              lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
              People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
              "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
              coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
              I would not say that my family is predjudiced
              against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

              1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
              choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
              2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity but out of fear, shame
              or denial choose to ignore it, and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

              And alot of this has to do with past experience and things passed down

              I would also say that living in the North is very different than living in the South, and that
              maybe the attitudes, and traditions of the environment also has shaped my family's reactions.

              I do my best to be open minded, and learn about other people's perspectives.
              If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point of view but I really don't try to
              change people. I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
              And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
              the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

              Blessings~ Lynn


              Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.


              Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.


              Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

            • Peter Barrett
              Yes really, I m afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and other organizations. That is part of our old American history. It however has had a profound
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 29, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                it that way when we married. She has British/
                Caribbean/Panamanian/Jewish/African Ancestry.
                You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                We all know the deal.

                By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                Take care.

                Peter


                In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                We all have our preferences, but come on,
                I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                I hear you Lynn,

                For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                Partially becasue their parents never educated
                them and this passed down to their kids.
                The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                I have always been open to my background and have even
                been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                or the slave maters mentality for others.
                Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                wintyreeve@... wrote:


                [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                I have met many ignorant people. They were
                not educated in regard to people in general.
                My question for the group is, within your own families,
                have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                If so, how did you handle it? ]]


                I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                And alot of this has to do with past
                experience and things passed down

                I would also say that living in the North is very
                different than living in the South, and that maybe
                the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                also has shaped my family's reactions.

                I do my best to be open minded, and
                learn about other people's perspectives.
                If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                of view but I really don't try to change people.
                I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                Blessings~ Lynn
              • Philip Arnell
                Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this. Neither does my wife, she is actually from france. You know I have heard people from the caribbean say dont
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 29, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                  Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                  You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                  dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                  ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                  One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                  is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                  Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                  get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                  one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                  really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                  My wifes family on her mothers side
                  are african and east indian decent.

                  In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                  and will flock to a white person in a second or
                  will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                  that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                  Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                  Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                  other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                  It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                  You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                  They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                  could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                  kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                  or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                  to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                  Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                  would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                  My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                  it that way when we married. She has British/
                  Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                  You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                  We all know the deal.

                  By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                  another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                  Take care.

                  Peter

                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                  Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                  no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                  We all have our preferences, but come on,
                  I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                  happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                  She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                  I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                  j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                  The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                  in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                  (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                  test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                  and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                  able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                  Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  I hear you Lynn,

                  For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                  to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                  predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                  and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                  My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                  Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                  kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                  very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                  the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                  My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                  to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                  The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                  diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                  to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                  My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                  who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                  to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                  Partially becasue their parents never educated
                  them and this passed down to their kids.
                  The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                  group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                  at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                  Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                  disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                  introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                  I have always been open to my background and have even
                  been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                  I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                  or the slave maters mentality for others.
                  Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                  Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                  wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                  [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                  I have met many ignorant people. They were
                  not educated in regard to people in general.
                  My question for the group is, within your own families,
                  have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                  Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                  or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                  If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                  I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                  Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                  lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                  People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                  "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                  coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                  I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                  against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                  1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                  choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                  2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                  but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                  and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                  And alot of this has to do with past
                  experience and things passed down

                  I would also say that living in the North is very
                  different than living in the South, and that maybe
                  the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                  also has shaped my family's reactions.

                  I do my best to be open minded, and
                  learn about other people's perspectives.
                  If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                  of view but I really don't try to change people.
                  I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                  And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                  the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                  Blessings~ Lynn



                  Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better.

                • j s
                  In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality and will flock to a white person in a second or will throw themselves at a lighter complected person. that
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 29, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                    and will flock to a white person in a second or
                    will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                    that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"
                     
                    Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then. I guess I'll check the flights  ;)

                    Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                    Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                    Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                    You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                    dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                    ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                    One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                    is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                    Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                    get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                    one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                    really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                    My wifes family on her mothers side
                    are african and east indian decent.

                    In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                    and will flock to a white person in a second or
                    will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                    that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                    Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                    Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                    other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                    It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                    You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                    They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                    could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                    kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                    or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                    to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                    Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                    would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                    My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                    it that way when we married. She has British/
                    Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                    You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                    We all know the deal.

                    By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                    another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                    Take care.

                    Peter

                    In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                    Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                    no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                    We all have our preferences, but come on,
                    I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                    happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                    She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                    I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                    j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                    The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                    in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                    (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                    test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                    and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                    able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                    Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    I hear you Lynn,

                    For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                    to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                    predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                    and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                    My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                    Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                    kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                    very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                    the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                    My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                    to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                    The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                    diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                    to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                    My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                    who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                    to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                    Partially becasue their parents never educated
                    them and this passed down to their kids.
                    The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                    group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                    at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                    Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                    disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                    introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                    I have always been open to my background and have even
                    been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                    I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                    or the slave maters mentality for others.
                    Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                    Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                    wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                    [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                    I have met many ignorant people. They were
                    not educated in regard to people in general.
                    My question for the group is, within your own families,
                    have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                    Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                    or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                    If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                    I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                    Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                    lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                    People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                    "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                    coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                    I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                    against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                    1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                    choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                    2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                    but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                    and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                    And alot of this has to do with past
                    experience and things passed down

                    I would also say that living in the North is very
                    different than living in the South, and that maybe
                    the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                    also has shaped my family's reactions.

                    I do my best to be open minded, and
                    learn about other people's perspectives.
                    If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                    of view but I really don't try to change people.
                    I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                    And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                    the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                    Blessings~ Lynn

                  • Peter Barrett
                    Phillip I was wondering have you ever read The color Complex: The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans by Kathy Russell,Midge Wilson Ph.D., and
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 29, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Phillip I was wondering have you ever read The color Complex:
                      The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans by
                      Kathy Russell,Midge Wilson Ph.D., and Ronald Hall Ph.D..

                      It is quite informative on this subject.

                      Your wife being from France is quite interesting.
                      It is my understanding that there all French citizens are
                      considered French no matter what their ethnicity by law.
                      Which here in America is said but not actually acted out.
                      What is your take on that?

                      The Guadealupe thing is quite familiar
                      as we have already said in many places.

                      Again the color barrier has left scares here.
                      Some places iit isn't as prevelant as others.

                      I went to a Creole convention a couple of years ago.
                      I know that may sound strange but that is what it is called.

                      I thought there might be a color issue. I never felt more at home.
                      People were of every combination you could think of.
                      It was about culture and ancestral ties not phenotype.
                      Creoles have had such a bad rap that I wasn't sure what to expect.
                      It was all family. I was pleasantly suprised and amazed.
                      This was not always the case but they are trying to bury the
                      hatchett if you will. Which is how the world should be anyway.

                      I'm also curious does your wife have to deal with people assuming
                      the French are always rude? If so, how does she approach that issue?


                      j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                      "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                      and will flock to a white person in a second or
                      will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                      that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"


                      Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then.
                      I guess I'll check the flights ;)


                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                      Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                      Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                      You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                      dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                      ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                      One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                      is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                      Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                      get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                      one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                      really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                      My wifes family on her mothers side
                      are african and east indian decent.

                      In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                      and will flock to a white person in a second or
                      will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                      that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                      Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:


                      Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                      other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                      It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                      You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                      They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                      could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                      kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                      or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                      to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                      Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                      would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                      My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                      it that way when we married. She has British/
                      Caribbean/Panamanian/Jewish/African Ancestry.
                      You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                      We all know the deal.

                      By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                      another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                      Take care.

                      Peter

                      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                      no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                      We all have our preferences, but come on,
                      I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                      happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                      She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                      I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                      j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                      The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                      in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                      (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                      test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                      and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                      able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                      I hear you Lynn,

                      For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                      to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                      predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                      and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                      My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                      Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                      kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                      very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                      the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                      My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                      to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                      The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                      diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                      to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                      My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                      who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                      to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                      Partially becasue their parents never educated
                      them and this passed down to their kids.
                      The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                      group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                      at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                      Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                      disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                      introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                      I have always been open to my background and have even
                      been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                      I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                      or the slave maters mentality for others.
                      Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                      Did I ever send you my books
                      through email? Please let me know.

                      wintyreeve@... wrote:

                      [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                      I have met many ignorant people. They were
                      not educated in regard to people in general.
                      My question for the group is, within your own families,
                      have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                      Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                      or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                      If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                      I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                      Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                      lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                      People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                      "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                      coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                      I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                      against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                      1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                      choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                      2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                      but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                      and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                      And alot of this has to do with past
                      experience and things passed down

                      I would also say that living in the North is very
                      different than living in the South, and that maybe
                      the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                      also has shaped my family's reactions.

                      I do my best to be open minded, and
                      learn about other people's perspectives.
                      If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                      of view but I really don't try to change people.
                      I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                      And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                      the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                      Blessings~ Lynn
                    • Philip Arnell
                      LOLOLOL that was a good one, how are you? j s wrote: In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality and will flock to
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 30, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        LOLOLOL that was a good one, how are you?

                        j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
                        "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                        and will flock to a white person in a second or
                        will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                        that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"
                         
                        Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then. I guess I'll check the flights  ;)

                        Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                        Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                        Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                        You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                        dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                        ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                        One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                        is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                        Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                        get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                        one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                        really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                        My wifes family on her mothers side
                        are african and east indian decent.

                        In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                        and will flock to a white person in a second or
                        will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                        that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                        Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                        Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                        other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                        It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                        You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                        They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                        could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                        kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                        or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                        to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                        Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                        would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                        My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                        it that way when we married. She has British/
                        Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                        You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                        We all know the deal.

                        By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                        another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                        Take care.

                        Peter

                        In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                        Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                        no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                        We all have our preferences, but come on,
                        I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                        happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                        She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                        I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                        j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                        The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                        in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                        (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                        test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                        and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                        able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                        Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                        I hear you Lynn,

                        For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                        to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                        predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                        and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                        My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                        Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                        kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                        very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                        the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                        My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                        to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                        The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                        diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                        to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                        My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                        who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                        to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                        Partially becasue their parents never educated
                        them and this passed down to their kids.
                        The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                        group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                        at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                        Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                        disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                        introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                        I have always been open to my background and have even
                        been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                        I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                        or the slave maters mentality for others.
                        Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                        Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                        wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                        [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                        I have met many ignorant people. They were
                        not educated in regard to people in general.
                        My question for the group is, within your own families,
                        have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                        Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                        or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                        If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                        I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                        Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                        lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                        People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                        "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                        coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                        I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                        against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                        1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                        choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                        2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                        but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                        and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                        And alot of this has to do with past
                        experience and things passed down

                        I would also say that living in the North is very
                        different than living in the South, and that maybe
                        the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                        also has shaped my family's reactions.

                        I do my best to be open minded, and
                        learn about other people's perspectives.
                        If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                        of view but I really don't try to change people.
                        I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                        And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                        the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                        Blessings~ Lynn



                        Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

                      • Philip Arnell
                        Peter, we are going to be great friends, I do enjoy your questions. I havent read the book you mentioned. It is true once you are born in mainland france or
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 30, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Peter, we are going to be great friends, I do enjoy your questions.
                          I havent read the book you mentioned.

                          It is true once you are born in mainland france or french department you are french
                          no matter what. You can even claim your french nationality and are equally
                          regarded as a french citizen if one of your parents are from french state.
                          This is my case and my childrens case, My father is from French St. Martin,
                          I claimed my rights 2 years ago. My children are born in the states
                          like me and they claimed it through my wife.

                          My take on the American standpoint, true, it is written but not acted out.
                          There are many different cultures here, once you are
                          born here the legality is that you are an american , but
                          america tends to follow the culture that you are born into.
                          This is why we have the titles mexican american , caribbean american, or whatever.
                          For ‘people of african decent’, titles I think have been more prevelent to show that
                          “blacks” come from more than one culture that forced on them, meaning slavery etc.
                          Rather than being called the "N word" , to colored to “black” to
                          African American gives a sense of identity most rightly deserved.

                          But America has that aryan mentality of what the ALL american is,
                          meaning white with blond hair and blue eyes, "the real american"
                          which everyone knows is not true but most accepted.

                          So anyone from another culture who came here , and was naturalized and
                          had their families here yes are americans , but not as widely recognised
                          as someone who claims the sterotype of who the american is.

                          Here is the funny part, People from other countries accept once you are born in
                          america you are an american, rightly so. But, at the same time some people
                          take offense to that becasue they think that their culture is being ignored.
                          I can understand that. I live in Guadeloupe, I am an american whose
                          total lineage is from the caribbean, I embrace that culture and have
                          the identity of being an american, I like to be recognized for both.
                          Once you accept who you are , you should be respected by
                          all those once they are educated to respect who you are too.

                          I once dated a girl from trinidad, one of her issues with me was that I
                          was born here, well my father heard what she said and called her on it,
                          he said, he is an american , but his culture that he was born into and
                          raised in and practices to a degree , modified of course to your surroundings
                          is that of the caribbean world. Well.... she was rightly put in her place.

                          There are many arrogant caribs out there who choose not to
                          know any better, but yet they will flock here and grow old and die
                          here and still knock what they have reaped. But that is another story.

                          I could tell you so many different stories about so
                          many different thingsI have seen and experienced.

                          I think that there is a lot of color issues within the accepted
                          mixed community, that is why my family is the way they are,
                          I am glad that you felt at home in the creole convention. I have seen so much
                          division within this group that that it was refreshing to read what you wrote.
                          I could tell you which islands are more racist than others, but I dont want to
                          offend anyone out there if they are from these places. # of these islands are
                          where my folks are from, but in my oppinon I can tell you who the top 3 are.

                          As for my wife being an actual french born person. For the time that she
                          was in the states, she never came across anyone who had anything
                          negative to say about the french, but she will blatently tell you
                          they are rude and very arrogant for no really good reason.

                          In guadelupe I have run across some. One guy wanted me to wait in customs becasue
                          I was an american and let all the french people through, he told my wife why should he
                          let me through even if I am next in line, when americans like to be first in everything.
                          Obviously he had issues and never ever left the island. FOOL. Some people I run across l
                          ive blissfully in their arrogance, some you say hello to and they get angry or insulted
                          becasue you are not speaking french to them, hello is a universal word.
                          but you just ignore them, there are alot of nice people in guadeloupe.

                          I should definately tell you about the mentalities of these places directly
                          connected to me, it would be an interesting email. You should hear some
                          of this stuff, and they are so oblivious to it, it is almost commonplace.

                          Peter Barrett wrote:
                          Phillip I was wondering have you ever read The color Complex:
                          The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans by
                          Kathy Russell,Midge Wilson Ph.D., and Ronald Hall Ph.D..

                          It is quite informative on this subject.

                          Your wife being from France is quite interesting.
                          It is my understanding that there all French citizens are
                          considered French no matter what their ethnicity by law.
                          Which here in America is said but not actually acted out.
                          What is your take on that?

                          The Guadealupe thing is quite familiar
                          as we have already said in many places.

                          Again the color barrier has left scares here.
                          Some places iit isn't as prevelant as others.

                          I went to a Creole convention a couple of years ago.
                          I know that may sound strange but that is what it is called.

                          I thought there might be a color issue. I never felt more at home.
                          People were of every combination you could think of.
                          It was about culture and ancestral ties not phenotype.
                          Creoles have had such a bad rap that I wasn't sure what to expect.
                          It was all family. I was pleasantly suprised and amazed.
                          This was not always the case but they are trying to bury the
                          hatchett if you will. Which is how the world should be anyway.

                          I'm also curious does your wife have to deal with people assuming
                          the French are always rude? If so, how does she approach that issue?

                          j s wrote:

                          "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                          and will flock to a white person in a second or
                          will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                          that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"


                          Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then.
                          I guess I'll check the flights ;)

                          Philip Arnell wrote:

                          Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                          Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                          You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                          dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                          ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                          One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                          is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                          Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                          get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                          one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                          really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                          My wifes family on her mothers side
                          are african and east indian decent.

                          In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                          and will flock to a white person in a second or
                          will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                          that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.

                          Peter Barrett wrote:

                          Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                          other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                          It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                          You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                          They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                          could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                          kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                          or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                          to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                          Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                          would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                          My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                          it that way when we married. She has British/
                          Caribbean/Panamanian/Jewish/African Ancestry.
                          You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                          We all know the deal.

                          By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                          another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                          Take care.

                          Peter

                          Philip Arnell wrote:

                          no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                          We all have our preferences, but come on,
                          I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                          happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                          She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                          I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                          j s wrote:

                          The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                          in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                          (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                          test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                          and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                          able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                          Philip Arnell wrote:

                          I hear you Lynn,

                          For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                          to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                          predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                          and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                          My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                          Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                          kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                          very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                          the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                          My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                          to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                          The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                          diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                          to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                          My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                          who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                          to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                          Partially becasue their parents never educated
                          them and this passed down to their kids.
                          The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                          group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                          at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                          Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                          disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                          introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                          I have always been open to my background and have even
                          been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                          I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                          or the slave maters mentality for others.
                          Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                          Did I ever send you my books
                          through email? Please let me know.

                          wintyreeve@... wrote:

                          [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                          I have met many ignorant people. They were
                          not educated in regard to people in general.
                          My question for the group is, within your own families,
                          have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                          Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                          or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                          If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                          I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                          Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                          lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                          People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                          "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                          coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                          I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                          against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                          1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                          choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                          2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                          but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                          and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                          And alot of this has to do with past
                          experience and things passed down

                          I would also say that living in the North is very
                          different than living in the South, and that maybe
                          the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                          also has shaped my family's reactions.

                          I do my best to be open minded, and
                          learn about other people's perspectives.
                          If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                          of view but I really don't try to change people.
                          I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                          And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                          the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                          Blessings~ Lynn
                        • j s
                          Life is good ( but a bit warm and wet ). BTW for the general audience, though it s still a few months away, I plan on launching a comic book(s) that will be
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 30, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Life is good ( but a bit warm and wet ).

                            BTW for the general audience, though it's still a few months away, I plan on
                            launching a comic book(s) that will be populated with a mostly mixed cast.
                            While I won't be dwelling on the racial issues as a primary plot focus, it will be touched
                            upon, especially the marginality and identity issues we face. I also plan to have various
                            underrepresented ethnicities as well just because I think it's needed and I own it, so I can do it.
                             
                            I'll update as soon as I get closer,
                            Jeff 

                            Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                            LOLOLOL that was a good one, how are you?

                            j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
                            "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                            and will flock to a white person in a second or
                            will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                            that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"
                             
                            Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then. I guess I'll check the flights  ;)

                            Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                            Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                            Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                            You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                            dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                            ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                            One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                            is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                            Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                            get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                            one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                            really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                            My wifes family on her mothers side
                            are african and east indian decent.

                            In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                            and will flock to a white person in a second or
                            will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                            that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                            Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                            Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                            other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                            It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                            You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                            They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                            could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                            kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                            or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                            to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                            Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                            would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                            My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                            it that way when we married. She has British/
                            Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                            You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                            We all know the deal.

                            By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                            another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                            Take care.

                            Peter

                            In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                            Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                            no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                            We all have our preferences, but come on,
                            I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                            happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                            She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                            I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                            j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                            The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                            in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                            (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                            test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                            and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                            able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                            Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                            I hear you Lynn,

                            For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                            to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                            predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                            and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                            My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                            Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                            kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                            very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                            the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                            My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                            to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                            The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                            diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                            to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                            My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                            who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                            to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                            Partially becasue their parents never educated
                            them and this passed down to their kids.
                            The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                            group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                            at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                            Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                            disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                            introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                            I have always been open to my background and have even
                            been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                            I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                            or the slave maters mentality for others.
                            Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                            Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                            wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                            [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                            I have met many ignorant people. They were
                            not educated in regard to people in general.
                            My question for the group is, within your own families,
                            have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                            Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                            or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                            If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                            I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                            Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                            lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                            People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                            "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                            coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                            I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                            against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                            1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                            choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                            2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                            but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                            and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                            And alot of this has to do with past
                            experience and things passed down

                            I would also say that living in the North is very
                            different than living in the South, and that maybe
                            the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                            also has shaped my family's reactions.

                            I do my best to be open minded, and
                            learn about other people's perspectives.
                            If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                            of view but I really don't try to change people.
                            I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                            And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                            the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                            Blessings~ Lynn

                          • Philip Arnell
                            Jeff, This is great, I am looking forward to seeing your comic books j s wrote: Life is good ( but a bit warm and wet ). BTW for the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 1, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jeff,
                               
                              This is great, I am looking forward to seeing your comic books

                              j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
                              Life is good ( but a bit warm and wet ).

                              BTW for the general audience, though it's still a few months away, I plan on
                              launching a comic book(s) that will be populated with a mostly mixed cast.
                              While I won't be dwelling on the racial issues as a primary plot focus, it will be touched
                              upon, especially the marginality and identity issues we face. I also plan to have various
                              underrepresented ethnicities as well just because I think it's needed and I own it, so I can do it.
                               
                              I'll update as soon as I get closer,
                              Jeff 

                              Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                              LOLOLOL that was a good one, how are you?

                              j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
                              "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                              and will flock to a white person in a second or
                              will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                              that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"
                               
                              Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then. I guess I'll check the flights  ;)

                              Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:
                              Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                              Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                              You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                              dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                              ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                              One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                              is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                              Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                              get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                              one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                              really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                              My wifes family on her mothers side
                              are african and east indian decent.

                              In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                              and will flock to a white person in a second or
                              will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                              that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                              Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                              Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                              other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                              It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                              You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                              They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                              could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                              kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                              or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                              to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                              Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                              would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                              My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                              it that way when we married. She has British/
                              Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                              You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                              We all know the deal.

                              By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                              another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                              Take care.

                              Peter

                              In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                              Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                              no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                              We all have our preferences, but come on,
                              I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                              happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                              She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                              I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                              j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                              The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                              in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                              (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                              test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                              and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                              able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                              Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                              I hear you Lynn,

                              For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                              to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                              predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                              and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                              My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                              Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                              kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                              very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                              the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                              My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                              to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                              The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                              diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                              to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                              My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                              who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                              to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                              Partially becasue their parents never educated
                              them and this passed down to their kids.
                              The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                              group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                              at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                              Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                              disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                              introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                              I have always been open to my background and have even
                              been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                              I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                              or the slave maters mentality for others.
                              Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                              Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                              wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                              [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                              I have met many ignorant people. They were
                              not educated in regard to people in general.
                              My question for the group is, within your own families,
                              have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                              Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                              or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                              If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                              I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                              Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                              lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                              People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                              "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                              coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                              I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                              against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                              1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                              choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                              2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                              but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                              and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                              And alot of this has to do with past
                              experience and things passed down

                              I would also say that living in the North is very
                              different than living in the South, and that maybe
                              the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                              also has shaped my family's reactions.

                              I do my best to be open minded, and
                              learn about other people's perspectives.
                              If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                              of view but I really don't try to change people.
                              I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                              And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                              the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                              Blessings~ Lynn



                              How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                            • multiracialbookclub
                              Agreed -- Jeff this is great news -- and thanks for letting us know about it!!! [=D ] You have such a funny sense of humor -- that I just know it s going to
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jul 6, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Agreed -- Jeff this is great news --
                                and thanks for letting us know about it!!! =D>

                                You have such a funny sense of humor -- that
                                I just know it's going to be a great success!! :)

                                We are behind you 100% -- and so, please do
                                make sure to keep us posted on your progress!!

                                Have a great day!!

                                 In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
                                Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                                Jeff,

                                This is great, I am looking forward
                                to seeing your comic books

                                j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                                ... though it's still a few months away, I plan on launching a
                                comic book(s) that will be populated with a mostly mixed cast.
                                While I won't be dwelling on the racial issues
                                as a primary plot focus, it will be touched upon,
                                especially the marginality and identity issues we face.
                                I also plan to have various underrepresented ethnicities as
                                well just because I think it's needed and I own it, so I can do it.

                                I'll update as soon as I get closer,
                                Jeff 
                              • Philip Arnell
                                Hello everyone, I hope you all are well. Yesterday I was speaking to a friend of mine in regard to another friend that she had a conflict with. the first
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 11, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello everyone, I hope you all are well.
                                   
                                  Yesterday I was speaking to a friend of mine in regard
                                  to another friend that she had a conflict with. the first
                                  friend is ' very much into 'the black movement' respectfully.
                                  She is partially of celtic decent she told me.
                                  The other friend is ' of a mixed background,
                                  she looks like she could be my sister.
                                  they had issues with one another over something .
                                  The second friend moved to Georgia becasue she met a man
                                  on the internet and just took up with him. A white fellow,
                                  her first husband was white and in their
                                  turmoils went as far to call her a n**ger.
                                  the first friend told me about this, then she ended the
                                  conversation with thats what you get when you go
                                  outside your 'race', stay within your own.
                                  Along with a few other statements after that, she
                                  was so intense with how she made the comments.
                                   
                                  The point I am making is this, with the bad choice that
                                  friend #2 made in her first marriage, why would friend #1
                                  make a comment in regard to being in or out of anothers race.
                                   
                                  The second story is a person who was trying to run away
                                  from herself. this was a girl that I knew in college.
                                  she was mixed , but made it a point to make sure that
                                  she wore an irish pin around , and refused to associate
                                  with any other people of color, even the teachers.
                                  I remember when one of the "black" organizations
                                  approached her for some school event and she went
                                  nuts feeling insulted that they approached her.

                                  Her issues I am sure have followed her through
                                  life and truly she will never find happiness,
                                  if she has for her sake I hope that she can
                                  exist healthy in her fears as many people do.
                                  that fear is thinking that they will be 'found out'
                                  for something when the world already knows.

                                  Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:
                                  Phillip I was wondering have you ever read The color Complex:
                                  The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans by
                                  Kathy Russell,Midge Wilson Ph.D., and Ronald Hall Ph.D..

                                  It is quite informative on this subject.

                                  Your wife being from France is quite interesting.
                                  It is my understanding that there all French citizens are
                                  considered French no matter what their ethnicity by law.
                                  Which here in America is said but not actually acted out.
                                  What is your take on that?

                                  The Guadealupe thing is quite familiar
                                  as we have already said in many places.

                                  Again the color barrier has left scares here.
                                  Some places iit isn't as prevelant as others.

                                  I went to a Creole convention a couple of years ago.
                                  I know that may sound strange but that is what it is called.

                                  I thought there might be a color issue. I never felt more at home.
                                  People were of every combination you could think of.
                                  It was about culture and ancestral ties not phenotype.
                                  Creoles have had such a bad rap that I wasn't sure what to expect.
                                  It was all family. I was pleasantly suprised and amazed.
                                  This was not always the case but they are trying to bury the
                                  hatchett if you will. Which is how the world should be anyway.

                                  I'm also curious does your wife have to deal with people assuming
                                  the French are always rude? If so, how does she approach that issue?

                                  j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

                                  "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                                  and will flock to a white person in a second or
                                  will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                                  that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"


                                  Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then.
                                  I guess I'll check the flights ;)

                                  Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                                  Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                                  You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                                  dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                                  ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                                  One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                                  is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                                  Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                                  get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                                  one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                                  really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                                  My wifes family on her mothers side
                                  are african and east indian decent.

                                  In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                                  and will flock to a white person in a second or
                                  will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                                  that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.

                                  Peter Barrett <barac1998@aol. com> wrote:

                                  Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                                  other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                                  It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                                  You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                                  They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                                  could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                                  kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                                  or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                                  to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                                  Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                                  would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                                  My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                                  it that way when we married. She has British/
                                  Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                                  You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                                  We all know the deal.

                                  By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                                  another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                                  Take care.

                                  Peter

                                  In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                  Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                                  no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                                  We all have our preferences, but come on,
                                  I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                                  happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                                  She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                                  I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                                  j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                  The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                                  in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                                  (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                                  test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                                  and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                                  able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                                  Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  I hear you Lynn,

                                  For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                                  to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                                  predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                                  and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                                  My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                                  Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                                  kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                                  very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                                  the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                                  My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                                  to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                                  The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                                  diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                                  to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                                  My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                                  who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                                  to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                                  Partially becasue their parents never educated
                                  them and this passed down to their kids.
                                  The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                                  group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                                  at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                                  Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                                  disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                                  introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                                  I have always been open to my background and have even
                                  been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                                  I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                                  or the slave maters mentality for others.
                                  Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                                  Did I ever send you my books
                                  through email? Please let me know.

                                  wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                                  [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                                  I have met many ignorant people. They were
                                  not educated in regard to people in general.
                                  My question for the group is, within your own families,
                                  have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                                  Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                                  or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                                  If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                                  I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                                  Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                                  lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                                  People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                                  "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                                  coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                                  I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                                  against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                                  1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                                  choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                                  2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                                  but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                                  and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                                  And alot of this has to do with past
                                  experience and things passed down

                                  I would also say that living in the North is very
                                  different than living in the South, and that maybe
                                  the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                                  also has shaped my family's reactions.

                                  I do my best to be open minded, and
                                  learn about other people's perspectives.
                                  If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                                  of view but I really don't try to change people.
                                  I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                                  And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                                  the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                                  Blessings~ Lynn



                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                  Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                • GardeniaSLP
                                  I find the comments you all have made interesting and sad at the same time. First of all, I am biracial. However, I grew up in Puerto Rico, where my family
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 27, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I find the comments you all have made interesting and sad at the same time.  First of all, I am biracial.  However, I grew up in Puerto Rico, where my family fit in just fine.  No one believed me when I said that I was american, so I just went along with it to, since I was there at the beginning of grade school.  In my family we were every color of the rainbow, and had a variety of eye colors and hair textures.  While some narrowminded people marry "lighter skinned people to have pretty babies, etc.", the opposite also exists.  I found that the norm was more a case of "opposites attaract."
                                    Ethnicity did  not matter legally, unless one was a religious or political militant trying to keep things that happened thousands of years ago alive.
                                     
                                    The so called "paperbag test" is still alive and well.  I just learned about it approximately 6 months ago, and was shocked.  Apparently it is still used in some school systems by administrators right around the nations capital.
                                    My problems began when I moved back to the US as a teenager, and continue 'til this day.  While the color barrier has left scares here, each of us are individuals and need to work on healing those scares in order to build a better society.
                                     
                                    When my mother comes to visit, who is caucasian of English descent, and my sister, whose father is puertorican, with her daughters, blond blue eyed and red headed with green eyes, people do not hesitate to stand dumbfounded and stare or whisper staring right at us.
                                     
                                    And then theres the male/female issue.  My experience has always been that when black men find me attractive and want to date me it is ALWAYS because of the complexion of my skin or the texture of my hair.  This is what they tell me. Whereas, a white american, european or hispanic man will date me because of my personality, values, and goals in life. Then others have a problem when I chose to date within specific racial/ethnic groups.  I say this because we act based on our past experiences.  And also because we should look at what is going on around us and use these issues to make changes.
                                     

                                  • Philip Arnell
                                    Hello everyone, I hope this email finds you all well. I was emailing a freind of mine today letter her know what I have sent away for. After the first section
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 29, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello everyone, I hope this email finds you all well.
                                      I was emailing a freind of mine today letter her know what I have sent away for.
                                      After the first section read my following views and please let me know your opinion:

                                      I just ordered the ancestry DNA kit wish tests your DNA that determines what
                                      percentage of your background came from where, it goes by what you yourself
                                      have inherited from your ancestors, it is only the same if you are an identical twin.
                                            For example, my sister is shorter lighter and has blue eyes, we have the
                                            same parents and their parents had the same parents as their siblings.
                                      This test shows what percentage that you inherited from whatever group in your ancestry.
                                      With my genetic mixture I could have more of one group that I specifically inherited than
                                      my sister or brother had, they could have more euro ancestry that they themselves
                                      have inherited than I could have or whatever kind of group in the lineage.
                                      I thought it would be the same for myself and 2 siblings,
                                      but to my surprise it would be different. Science is amazing.
                                      I will have the results in 6 to 8 weeks.

                                      My View:

                                      You know , based on how society has acted at least in the different
                                      cultural-“black” communities in the United states and in the Caribbean
                                      (including Africa), though the dna test is important and is something that is
                                      nice to know, I could just imagine what it would do to groups especially in
                                      ones own family if they could determine exactly how much each individual
                                      person had of whatever lineage, there is already segregation amongst
                                      the "same people" because of complexions or hair texture or features.
                                      If they knew the exact percentage that they themselves actually had it
                                      could do one of 2 things, for some depending on their percentages.
                                      Stop their prejudiced ways or make them more arrogant with scientific proof behind it.
                                      These numbers are not important of course but at the same time , people
                                      would definately use them in negatives ways to make themselves better
                                      than others and if others like them were of the same or near percentage then
                                      they would add on a while new side to segregation and inner prejudice.

                                      Anyone have an opinion on this?
                                      This is just something that I just thought about and could maybe
                                      see happening at a highr degree than what already exists.


                                      j s <creolescience@...> wrote:

                                      Life is good ( but a bit warm and wet ).

                                      BTW for the general audience, though it's still a few months away, I plan on
                                      launching a comic book(s) that will be populated with a mostly mixed cast.
                                      While I won't be dwelling on the racial issues as a primary plot focus, it will be touched
                                      upon, especially the marginality and identity issues we face. I also plan to have various
                                      underrepresented ethnicities as well just because I think it's needed and I own it, so I can do it.
                                       
                                      I'll update as soon as I get closer,
                                      Jeff 

                                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                                      LOLOLOL that was a good one, how are you?

                                      j s <creolescience@...> wrote:
                                      "In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                                      and will flock to a white person in a second or
                                      will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                                      that is one of the things that I dont like about living there"
                                      Sounds like I'd do pretty well there then. I guess I'll check the flights  ;)

                                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@...> wrote:

                                      Wow Peter this floors me. I had no idea of this.
                                      Neither does my wife, she is actually from france.
                                      You know I have heard people from the caribbean say
                                      dont have children with a dark person becasue it will
                                      ruin the look of the family, I have always hated that.

                                      One thing I dont like about my wifes family in guadeloupe
                                      is that they are a bit on the closet racist side.
                                      Meaning they all seem to have this entality that
                                      get with a white guy to have a beautiful child,
                                      one of them did this just for that reason, now she
                                      really ignores her first child whos father is black.
                                      My wifes family on her mothers side
                                      are african and east indian decent.

                                      In guadelupe they tend to have a slaves mentality
                                      and will flock to a white person in a second or
                                      will throw themselves at a lighter complected person.
                                      that is one of the things that I dont like about living there.


                                      Peter Barrett <barac1998@...> wrote:

                                      Yes really, I'm afraid he is right. The Blue vein Society and
                                      other organizations. That is part of our old American history.
                                      It however has had a profound effect on on us to this day.
                                      You could say not old stuff like that was still going on in the 60's.

                                      They were trying to get as close to the European look that they
                                      could. It had an effect on both light and dark. If you had
                                      kinky hair you trying to get it straight, if you had straight
                                      or wavy hair you were trying to make it frizzy or coarse
                                      to have an Afro during the Black Power time period.

                                      Most of us are mixed so ther is a great chance you
                                      would marry some one who is mixed as well in America.

                                      My wife and I both are as well. I didn't see
                                      it that way when we married. She has British/
                                      Caribbean/Panamania n/Jewish/ African Ancestry.
                                      You wouldn't think that by meeting her.
                                      We all know the deal.

                                      By the [way] Lynn, when are you going to shoot us
                                      another beautiful poem of yours / I need a lift.
                                      Take care.

                                      Peter

                                      In Generation-Mixed@ yahoogroups. com,
                                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@ ...> wrote:

                                      no way really?? OMG!! I have never heard that one before.
                                      We all have our preferences, but come on,
                                      I married a woman who is also from a mixed background, it just
                                      happend to be that way, she honestly could have been anything.
                                      She still would have been a pain in the neck , lolol .
                                      I married for character, most people dont do that ever.

                                      j s <creolescience@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                      The hair texture and skin color issues are also alive and well
                                      in the south. I remember hearing about the "Paper bag test"
                                      (if you are darker than th ebag you are too dark), 'comb
                                      test'(if a comb can't run through your hair it's too nappy)
                                      and "The Blue Vein Society" which meant that you had to be
                                      able to show a blue vein on your wrist to be a member.

                                      Philip Arnell <trigueno03@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                      I hear you Lynn,

                                      For caribbean families some things are a little more tolerant
                                      to a degree, but in all truth , the caribbean is a very
                                      predjudiced environment, some islands more than others,
                                      and there is the same thinking from different directinos,
                                      My Barbados family doesnt particularly like fair skinned people.
                                      Though they originated more than half from white settlers. They
                                      kind of ostricized my mother and her family to a degree. To this
                                      very day over 100 years later they still refer my grandmother as
                                      the white girll on the hill, even people that never even met her.

                                      My Anguilla family , are extreemly color conscious. They dont seem
                                      to favor the dark complexion and they are very caught up in hair.
                                      The St. Martin family is along the same guidelines but a little
                                      diferent depending on what section of the family. I would have
                                      to say the Aruba section of my family is the most open minded

                                      My cousins that grew up in the states here have no real concept of
                                      who they are and just put themselves in a catagory, and decided
                                      to be content with that, shunning where they really came from.
                                      Partially becasue their parents never educated
                                      them and this passed down to their kids.
                                      The other reason is they chose to be ignorant, then there is another
                                      group that just abandoned their culture all together. And cringe
                                      at meeting unknown relatives that remind them of who they are.
                                      Some relatives I have met on the street in the business
                                      disticts of NYC, they were with co workers and just
                                      introduced me by my name, not by my relation to them.

                                      I have always been open to my background and have even
                                      been called a liar to it, and told i had to choose,
                                      I guess that is the slave mentality in them
                                      or the slave maters mentality for others.
                                      Peo[ple always get uncomfrotable when it comes to this.

                                      Did I ever send you my books through email? Please let me know.

                                      wintyreeve@aol. com wrote:

                                      [[RE: As a person of a multiracial background,
                                      I have met many ignorant people. They were
                                      not educated in regard to people in general.
                                      My question for the group is, within your own families,
                                      have you ever felt predjudice from your own?
                                      Have anyone in your families ever try to keep you
                                      or others at a distance keeping a family apart?
                                      If so, how did you handle it? ]]

                                      I would honestly say that I get a "mixed" response from my family.
                                      Those people who do seem to resist talking about our multi-racial
                                      lineage, people who seem to hide from their own identity.
                                      People who stubbornly cling to their own notion of
                                      "reality" and exclude all else---to me seem to be
                                      coming from a place or fear and/or ignorance.
                                      I would not say that my family is predjudiced
                                      against being mixed race. Rather, it seems they

                                      1) Do not know their own mixed race identity and if given a
                                      choice would prefer to be labelled by the obvious skin color
                                      2) May have some idea of their own mixed race identity
                                      but out of fear, shame or denial choose to ignore it,
                                      and go by the "monoracial" type they are labelled as.

                                      And alot of this has to do with past
                                      experience and things passed down

                                      I would also say that living in the North is very
                                      different than living in the South, and that maybe
                                      the attitudes, and traditions of the environment
                                      also has shaped my family's reactions.

                                      I do my best to be open minded, and
                                      learn about other people's perspectives.
                                      If someone is willing to talk—I will offer my point
                                      of view but I really don't try to change people.
                                      I know that change is something you have to want for yourself.
                                      And I also know that what I think, feel, etc. is not
                                      the "One Answer"...there is a lot, also, I can learn.

                                      Blessings~ Lynn

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