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4126Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Mixed Kids are NOT 'Prettier' (a memo on Mixed Ste...

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  • Philip Arnell
    Sep 22, 2010
      very well put eric.

      From: "jacksondeo@..." <jacksondeo@...>
      To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 10:31:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Mixed Kids are NOT 'Prettier' (a memo on Mixed Ste...


      I think what I find most offensive about the mixed people are prettier stereotype is that it usually implies that one can only be attractive if they are only partially Black and with less pronounced African features. I've had so many people say to me that I don't look like the "typical black guy", or flat out say that since I'm attractive in their eyes I must be mixed. I like being mixed, in fact I love it, but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to be offended when someone implies that Black people are inherently unattractive. I mean, jeez, I have non-mixed Black relatives and I'm part Black myself.
      In a message dated 9/21/2010 4:41:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, keishakandy@... writes:

      i just think it's the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they see mixed people we're so rare, they think of us as exotic.in my opinion it beats being told you're pretty for a dark-skin girl.

      From: multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@...>
      To: Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 11:19:32 PM
      Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Mixed Kids are NOT 'Prettier' (a memo on Mixed Stereotypes))


      Well said -- Rosanna !!!!

      And I agree with you 100% on this !!!!

      For me it's another of those so-called 
      "positive stereotypes" (like all Asian
      people are 'good at math' or Black
      people have 'natural rhythm'; etc.).

      The target of the comment walks away 
      feeling insulted and 'typed' while the 
      person who offered it just happily
      walks away with no more knowledge
      of the actual person than before.

      No group wants to be stereotyped --
      especially not with some ingratiating
      pandering nonsensical phrases like:
      "you guys are the prettiest"
      "mixed people are the cutest"
      -- as if we were a bunch of 15 year
      old high school kids who need our
      fragile egos built up after being
      rejected for the cheerleader squad.

      And let's not forget that "positive" stereotypes
      have a way of both limiting knowledge of the
      true person AND of coming back to haunt the
      person when being thrown at them as an insult.

      It's like you said, Rosanna, we are
      NOT some 'rare breed of animal'.  

      We are also not some rare 
      anomaly of the human race.

      The members of most monoracial groups
      would never tolerate being condescended
      to in such a manner nor allow themselves
      to be 'set up' to come across as if they are
      "fishing for compliments" at every turn
      -- nor would they be expected to do so.

      Being 'objectified' is an insult
      - and is not a compliment!!

      --- In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "rosanna_armendariz" <rosanna_armendariz@...> wrote:

      In my view, because it's objectifying and makes it seem as though we are some
      rare breed of animal or something. And like the author of the article said,
      there's no scientific basis for these generalizations. They don't even hold up
      based on plain old observation. We've all seen plenty of mixed folk who are not
      especially terrific looking, lol. It's like with any group; there's a lot of
      variance. I don't want to be labeled with some characteristic b/c I'm mixed.

      --- In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      keisha dixon <keishakandy@...> wrote:


      From: rosanna_armendariz <rosanna_armendariz@...>
      Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 2:48:50 PM
      Subject: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Mixed Kids are
      NOT 'Prettier' (a memo on Mixed Stereotypes))

      Yes, I always find it insulting when people make comments about mixed folk being
      "exotic," "alluring," "mysterious," and so on. The people making the comments
      usually don't see why it's offensive, but I find it objectifying.

      In Generation-Mixed@yahoogroups.com,
      "multiracialbookclub" <soaptalk@...> wrote:


      Mixed Kids are not "Prettier"
      Blowing Up "Hybrid-Vigor"

      -- By 

      Okay, I'm done. 

      Just done with this s---. 

      I am so sick of hearing people talk about Mixed folks 
      like we're some sort of science experiment. 

      "Positive" stereotyping out of ignorance and lack 
      of exposure to make us just a new kind of "other." 

      And I know people mean well, but . . . it gets '
      tiring', to say the least.

      A few days ago, my cousin ("E"), his girlfriend ("J"), and I ("me") 
      met up with a married couple that they are friends with. 

      In this couple, the man is a white Australian 
      man, and the woman is a Chinese woman. 

      (*1) The guy's a nice one, but he's not killing it in the looks department. 
      The woman (also quite wonderful) is average-looking. (*2) She's pregnant.

      So after we part ways, "J" (also Chinese) is excited about the baby, and she 
      says, "I can't wait for their baby to be born – she is going to be so beautiful. 
      Because she is Chinese and he is a foreigner, the baby must be so pretty."

      'Record-scratch'. I look at her, "What?!" 
      I don't say it, but I'm thinking – `Has she looked at the father? 
      What the H--- is wrong with people?'

      Because this isn't the first time I've heard this kind of thing. 

      I hear it all the time – "Mixed kids are just so 'pretty'." 

      And – although I'd love to bathe in the ego-stroking 
      that entails 
      (an interesting counterpoint to 
      "Asian men '
      aren't' hot") – I'm not having it.

      And before I break it down further, let me just say my family is now
      'chock-full' of Mixed kids, and there's not a whole lot of "beautiful" 
      running around (I'm so sorry family, but I just got to be honest here). 

      The few kids that are actually above-average? 
      Well, the ones with the above-average '
      parents', of course. 
      Just like with the majority of pretty "mono-racial" children.

      It doesn't end there, though. I've also heard that 
      Mixed kids are "so intelligent" (mostly here in China). 
      I've even been told (back in high school) 
      that "all Mixed kids are just so '
      nice'." (*4) 

      When this topic gets brought up on a larger level 
      – how beautiful and wonderful and '
      healthy' Mixed kids 
      are – we inevitably get a reference to "Hybrid-Vigor." 

      In these cases, the person making the argument (wrongly) 
      describes "Hybrid-Vigor" as the genetic superiority 
      of "cross-bred" animals and plants in the world. 

      "It's '
      science'," they say – and people usually buy it.

      Well, sorry, people – but 'this' particular gorgeous, 
      super-intelligent and wondrously kind Mixed-race 
      "cross-breed" has a science background. 

      And y'all – apparently, from your 
      mis-use of scientific understanding – don't.

      So step into my class for a second.

      First-off, don't wrongly cite Gregor Mendel 
      and his pea-experiments as any sort of 
      evidence – either way – of "Hybrid-Vigor". 

      Yes, his cross-breeds did better than those plants 
      he did 'not'
       cross-breed, on an overall level.

      But . . . uh . . . you're missing a vital fact here: 
      those plants that he 'didn't'

      He '
      self-pollinated' them. 

      As in, they were 'inbred'
      Even closer relatives than brother and sister – 
      because the sex cells came from the '
      same plant'

      It was practically 'cloning'. 

      And even though lots of people like to say 
      members of a particular "mono-racial" group 
      "all look the same," you're really not all clones.


      Okay, so then our faulty scientists will say, 
      "well fine, what about with dogs and 
      pigs and horses and sheep, etc.? 

      Cross-breeding 'them'
       increases fitness."

      Well, yes and no. 

      First off, "Hybrid-Vigor" actually just references 
      the times when cross-breeding 'happens'
      increase fitness – 'not'
       a fact that it always occurs. 

      There's another term, "Outbreeding Depression,"
      for when cross-breeding causes 'more'

      So, again, y'all are skipping some important details.

      "But cross-breeding 'more often' increases fitness, then." 

      Sure, sure. 
      In dogs and pigs and other 
      domestic animals, that's true. 

      But again – look at the comparison – 
      those animals that do 'not'
       get cross-bred: 

      these are either "pure-bred" animals 
      (like pugs, for instance) or "inbred" animals. 

      We've talked about inbreeding (and no, 
      I don't think mono-racial folks are all the 
      products of thousands of years of inbreeding), so . . .


      Artificially, '
      selectively-bred' animals? 

      These are animals that have been forced to breed together 
      for many many generations to enhance some specific physical 
      characteristics –--- at the cost of a lot of health problems. 

      These are not real-world animals. 

      Outside of the domesticated world, 
      "pure-breeds" simply 'do note exist'

      Because, in the real world, "pure-breeds" would die out 
      within a couple generations because of all their problems. 

      All that remains in the natural world are cross-bred animals.

      So comparing races or ethnicities to 
      "breeds" is just stupid, and poor science. 

      Every racial and ethnic group out 
      there is a result of "cross-breeding".

      Our human gene pool is all mixed up – because we 
      have been (mostly) avoiding the inbreeding and 
      artificial selection that creates domestic animals. 

      Our DNA is more varied '
      within' any particular 
      "racial group" than it is '
      between' them. 

      Which then suggests that – if any of this "science" 
      can be applied to human beings – then, perhaps, 
      so-called "mono-racial" offspring would 
      be 'more'
       likely to have the advantage of 
      "Hybrid-Vigor" than "multi-racial"

      Of course, that would also be abusing the 
      science, but I hope you can see my point – 
      there is no such thing as "purity" in race. 

      Every "race" is the result of hundreds of thousands 
      of years of '
      inter'-breeding, 'cross'-breeding. 

      We've survived as long as we 
      have '
      because' we are not "pure."

      Mixed kids? 

      The result of exactly the same reproductive processes 
      and selection pressures as the rest of humanity. 


      (*5) Some of us are super-hot or 
      wondrously intelligent (or both), for sure. 

      But, sorry, some of us just have to pull on 
      'inner' beauty or wouldn't exactly astound others 
      with our coherence of thought (or both), as well.

      B.S. "positive" stereotypes like this are just as 
      damaging as negative ones (on a large scale

      Allowing ourselves to be reduced to the 
      equivalence of domesticated animals? 

      H-ll no. 

      Let somebody "other" you in a "positive" way, and 
      you're just setting yourself up for the negative stereotypes 
      and prejudice to follow suit – and trust me, it's 'going to happen'.

      And, finally, for those anecdotalists (*6) out there who want to say, 
      really, 'all' the Mixed people I know 'really are' beautiful," 
      .... I've got some things for you to ask yourself:

      First off – are they "beautiful" simply 
      because they're "different" and "exotic?" 

      That would be my first guess if they 
      literally all are so gorgeous, in your eyes. 

      And I don't need to go further into 
      that one about why that's not okay.

      Second – honestly, how many normal, 
      everyday Mixed people do you make note of? 

      What does it take for you to even get to the point 
      where you know for sure that we 'are'

      Chances are, for us to be noticed on that level, 
      we either have to be in the media (which is going to 
      obviously over-represent the "hot" Mixed folks), or else 
      we just have to stand out from the backdrop of everyday life. 

      And if we're good-looking, that's one way to do so.

      I mean, how often do you think about or even 'ask' some 
      "below-average" guy or gal, "wow – you have such an 
      'interesting' look, what is your racial background?" 

      You don't. 

      So you likely aren't even 'aware'
      of the 
      thousands of Mixed people you walked 
      right by on the street that were 'not'

      It's Confirmation-Bias, people – look it up.

      And that's it. 
      I'm done. 
      I've gotten it out there now. 

      I feel confident in my breakdown of that particular line of "othering." 
      And, even if I didn't, I tired myself out.

      Mixed folks are great – GO US – but it's simply '
      not' due 
      to our genetic difference from the rest of humanity. 

      We are not aliens; we are not dogs 
      or other domesticated animals. 

      We're just another socially-defined group of 
      people, and 
      a force to be reckoned with – like the rest of our species.

      And if you 'still' don't believe me . . ? 

      Well, sh–, '
      please' don't make me fully throw my 
      extended family under the bus and send you photos . . .


      (*1) In general, if I say "Chinese" without specifying 
      another country of origin, then I mean born and 
      raised in China and of Han (majority) ethnicity.

      (*2) For perhaps the only time on this blog, I'm working 
      off a general, shallow-as-Hell societal concept of physical 
      "beauty" here, because that's the level on 
      which I mean to take this stereotype down. 

      If people were talking about Mixed-race folks being 
      "beautiful" within a completely different framework 
      for beauty, then we'd be living in a better world than we do.

      (*3) All my Chinese-American cousins except 
      one – 8 of them – married white partners.

      (*4) Man, I thought of so many ways to disprove 
      that last one after the fact, but – in the moment 
      – I was too surprised to do much of anything.

      (*5) This is just plain-damn common-sense, and it 
      just irritates the H--- out of me how people who 
      have no idea what they're talking about mis-read 
      scientific findings to "prove" stupid theories like this.

      (*6) I make up my own words, sometimes – 
      because I'm so '
      vigorous', I can do that and make it cool.

      (*7) And yes, I am wholly conscious of the fact that 
      this entire post so fully falls out the way I lament we 
      teach our kids to "argue" in my "Broken System, Part III." 

      Sigh . . . see what prejudice can do to a guy?




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