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2578Re: [Generation-Mixed] Re: Cherokee Nation votes to expel 'freedmen'

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  • j s
    Mar 4, 2007
      I guess since I recall the article said
      that about 2,000 had just signed up last year I
      wonder about their closeness to the tribal ways.
      I feel worse for the 800 who had been members so long.
      Still, if the traditions are intact etc
      I think 2,800 is a pretty healthy number.
      The fact that 72% voted against me would be the real
      concern - that's hardly a family I'd want to be a part of.
      multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@...> wrote:
      Jeff wrote:

      If I was a freedman's descendant I think I would no longer want to
      be affiliated with the tribe anyway after such a slap in the face.

      My Reply:

      Yeah – I hear ya' -- and I think you make
      a good point in this food for thought about
      what could be the initial emotional responses
      that anyone would feel after having been
      treated in what is so clearly an unfair way.

      That having been said, I feel I have to add that
      I also tend to wonder if -- since it appears that
      so many of these Freedmen grew up largely in
      the culture (language, food, region, history, outlook,
      struggle, identity, etc.) only of the Cherokee Nation
      – it may be the only culture they feel they 'really' know
      and, thus, I wonder if they would have a hard time letting
      go of their multi-generational cultural and family ties and trying
      to become independent of them and the Nation as a whole.

      Also – after centuries of struggling as `part of the
      Cherokee Nation' I wonder if branching out on
      their own would make them feel that their past
      efforts and those of their ancestors was in vain.

      It kind of reminds me of when the people who were
      of the
      African-American (AA) Ethnic group were able  
      to go to places like France, in larger numbers, during
      and after World War I – wherein they were said to
      have been treated a lot better than they were treated
      in The States – but, due to what they and their
      ancestors had struggled for in the States, they
      were generally not willing to give up their
      American citizenship and move-on elsewhere.

      Most decided to return to and remain in the States and to
      work to try to obtain equal rights, protection, participation,
      treatment and citizenry in the country – and this drive is
      part of what led to the American Civil Rights Movement 
      which provided these benefits to both the
      AAs and 
      other citizens and residents of the country as well.

      It seems that there is something about those cultural, 
      historical and familial ties that cause people to just
      want to lay claim to what is clearly rightfully theirs.

      Just a thought.

      Have a great day.

      -- M

      Related Links:

      http://www.afrigene as.com/forume/ index.cgi? noframes; read=9923
      http://news. newamericamedia. org/news/ view_article. html?article_ id=875400ddf2fb8 fcadc8910f36e174 e8a 
      http://www.freedmen 5tribes.com/ History.htm
      http://www.freedmen 5tribes.com/

      j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

      If I was a freedman's descendant I think I would no longer want to
      be affiliated with the tribe anyway after such a slap in the face.

      multiracialbookclub <soaptalk@hotmail. com> wrote:

      That's true ... Jeff!

      You do have a good knack for looking at all
      sides of an issue -- and it's really appreciated.:)

      As noted, it's really good 'food for thought'. :-?

      --- M

       j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

      I guess many might have thought they were
      those "long lost relatives" wanting
      to cash in regardless of the truth.
      I dont support their decision but I
      guess I'm just trying to see all sides.

      'multiracialbookclu b'  wrote:

      Jeff wrote:

      <<<"But I guess I can also see their point to an extent
      if all of a sudden there were people who joined
      with no indian identity, experience or interest
      who wanted their entitled share.">>>

      My reply:

      Hi Jeff,

      Thanks for commenting ... as your commentary is
      always appreciated and is good food for thought.

      The only problem here, however, is that
      this analogy does not apply to the
      situation faced by 'The Freedmen'.

      The majority of The Freedmen have
      been repeatedly proven to be the known
      Mixed-Race (part-Black and part-Amerindian)
      'descendents of the people who were originally
      slaves to the tribe' -- but after the Antebellum
      era of chattel slavery ended, the former slaves 
      became members of and absorbed into the
      tribe and they and their Mixed-Race offspring
      became referred to as being The Freedmen.

      Most of them were of continually part-Cherokee
      lineage; largely only knew of Cherokee ways; and
      have, for generations, grown up in the Cherokee
      heritage, language, customs, rituals, beliefs, etc.

      As noted, most of these Freedmen are both of
      a Mixed-Race (Native and Black) lineage and 
      certainly have more connection to and shared
      heritage with their Cherokee brethren than many
      of the people of 'White' phenotype who often show
      up at tribal functions declaring themselves to be
      'part-Cherokee' (often based on nothing more than
      family legend,  an old photograph, etc. -- with no
      other proof) -- who are all but gleefully accepted by
      and enrolled in the tribe with very little questioning
      or investigation (and certainly no 'interrogation' ).

      Many of these 'White'' "newly-discovered"
      'accepted' Cherokee know nothing about
      the customs, language, heritage, history, etc.
      of the tribe and they have shared in little or
      none of the tribal 'sufferings' -- and they simply
      'recollected' their 'alleged' lineage when they
      realized that casino money could be involved.

      Meanwhile, most of the Freedmen (particularly those
      in places like Oklahoma ) have 'full' proof of their
      Mixed-Race lineage and most of them also have
      largely never broken off their cultural tribal ties.

      Yet, the Cherokee Nation -- out of greed and racism
      -- has chosen to 'discriminate' against them by
      (following the Dawes Commission footsteps) and,
      thus, implementing the racist One-Drop Rule in
      order to, yet again, deny the people who have
      any known or acknowledged Black ancestry
      the right to lay claim to their full-lineage.

      It, in my humble opinion, is racism and greed
      -- not tribal pride and protection -- that has
      caused the Cherokee Nation to take this horrid
      step against the very Freedmen who have been
      an active, important and functioning part of 
      the Cherokee Nation for multiple generations.

      The Freedmen are a far cry from being some
      long-lost, unheard of relatives who've shown
      up at someone's doorstep requesting a share
      of someone's 'Super Lotto' ticket winnings.

      They are a centuries-old, generations- spanning
      full-part of the Cherokee Nation and -- were it
      not for the Cherokee Nation's greed-based
      and racism-embracing acceptance of the
      racist One-Drop Rule, this matter -- of how
      to respond to the Mixed-Race Freedman
      (who, again, did not cut their tribal ties)
      -- would never have even been an issue.

      The action taken by the Cherokee Nation --
      in expelling these Mixed-Race Freedmen --
      is no less racist, in my humble opinion, than
      that which was taken by White-Supremacist
      Walter Plecker  in Virginia in the 1920's.

      Just a thought.
      Thanks again for sharing and have a great day!



      A good book and film on the subject
      of groups like 'The Freedmen' is called
      'Black Indians' -- by William Loren Katz

      Related Links:

      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1386
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1747
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 1400
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Generation -Mixed/message/ 2562 

       j s <creolescience@ ...> wrote:

      Wow. I suppose it was in response to the 2,000 that
      just joined since it appears that there were only
      800 members prior to the vote allowing them in.

      I guess it's also another "invalidation"
      African-Americans historical
      Native-American ties and lineage.

      But I think besides racism
      it also came down to greed.

      But I guess I can also see their point to an extent
      if all of a sudden there were people who joined
      with no indian identity, experience or
      interest who wanted their entitled share.

      This is just one reason why I have no real interest
      in seeking out tribal affiliation or membership
      because I'm sure one would really have to jump
      through hoops in what is basically a political process.

      Probably before the proliferation of indian casinos
      it wasn't as hard but now so much cash is involved.

      So many of us are of indian descent
      but will never have the "right" to
      claim it in this society without recieving
      snickers, disbelief or disdain since we are
      without the pedirgee of tribal membership.

      lbaker <tlbaker@nyc. rr.com> wrote:

      Cherokee Nation votes to expel 'freedmen'

      Cherokee Nation members voted
      Saturday (3/3/2007) to revoke
      the tribal citizenship of the
      descendants of the people the
      Cherokee once owned as slaves.

      http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 17442676/ from/ET/

      Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

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