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AW 3 speed adjustment

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  • panurgist6
    I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and Hadland and etc ). I have
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2014
      I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and Hadland and etc ). I have completely dismantled the hub, cleaned, and reassembled with 10w30 motor oil.
      Now I have 2 questions; every time I pause pedaling when I start back up there is 1/4 - 1/2 turn of the crank before it re-engages, is this normal?
      What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still available but I have none. I have been all over the map with adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?
      Thanks for any help.  Mike
    • David Chase
      ... I do not know for sure -- I had an old hub reputably rebuilt and it still failed to work properly, I eventually gave up and purchased a new one with no
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2014
        On 2014-01-01, at 3:45 PM, mef@... wrote:

        > I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and Hadland and etc ). I have completely dismantled the hub, cleaned, and reassembled with 10w30 motor oil.
        > ...
        > What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still available but I have none. I have been all over the map with adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?

        I do not know for sure -- I had an old hub reputably rebuilt and it still failed to work properly,
        I eventually gave up and purchased a new one with no inbetween gear, and I am happy enough.
        Is it possible that there is some error in the position of the axle within the hub? I am well
        and truly grasping at straws here.

        David
      • jpbabic
        Here s my two cents. Consider looking closely at the following items. Regarding shifting: 1. Wrong shifter 2. Wrong indicator rod 3. Shift cable binding
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
          Here's my two cents. Consider looking closely at the following items.

          Regarding shifting:
          1. Wrong shifter
          2. Wrong indicator rod
          3. Shift cable binding

          Regarding freewheeling:
          1. Consider using a thinner lubricant. Lubricants have been covered on this group in several threads. Entertaining reading, indeed.

          Best wishes and Happy New Year to all.

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <mef@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and Hadland and etc ). I have completely dismantled the hub, cleaned, and reassembled with 10w30 motor oil.
          > Now I have 2 questions; every time I pause pedaling when I start back up there is 1/4 - 1/2 turn of the crank before it re-engages, is this normal?
          > What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still available but I have none. I have been all over the map with adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?
          > Thanks for any help. Mike
          >
        • jpbabic
          In addition, I wonder if bearing adjustment can affect both symptoms? Regards.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
            In addition, I wonder if bearing adjustment can affect both symptoms?

            Regards.

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "jpbabic" <jbabic@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's my two cents. Consider looking closely at the following items.
            >
            > Regarding shifting:
            > 1. Wrong shifter
            > 2. Wrong indicator rod
            > 3. Shift cable binding
            >
            > Regarding freewheeling:
            > 1. Consider using a thinner lubricant. Lubricants have been covered on this group in several threads. Entertaining reading, indeed.
            >
            > Best wishes and Happy New Year to all.
            >
            > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <mef@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and Hadland and etc ). I have completely dismantled the hub, cleaned, and reassembled with 10w30 motor oil.
            > > Now I have 2 questions; every time I pause pedaling when I start back up there is 1/4 - 1/2 turn of the crank before it re-engages, is this normal?
            > > What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still available but I have none. I have been all over the map with adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?
            > > Thanks for any help. Mike
            > >
            >
          • Mark Stonich
            You may not have backed the RH cone out far enough (or maybe too far) . Or the axle key may be rotated 180 deg. from it s proper orientation. A weak clutch
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
              You may not have backed the RH cone out far enough (or maybe too far) .

              Or the axle key may be rotated 180 deg. from it's proper orientation.

              A weak clutch spring is another cause of neutrals but not likely in this case.

               
              On Jan 1, 2014, at 8:55 PM, David Chase wrote:

              What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still available but I have none. I have been all over the map with adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?

               Mark Stonich;    BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, MN 55417 USA
                    Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com



            • Michael Wilson
              Worn dogs on the gear ring ? And there are 2 styles of dogs - the early K511 had separate dogs for 1st and second - 8 dogs. The later K511A has 4 longer dogs
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
                Worn dogs on the gear ring ?

                And there are 2 styles of dogs - the early K511 had separate dogs for 1st and second - 8 dogs.  The later K511A has 4 longer dogs that work for both, and is substantially superior*.  My 1949 AG had the early style but most of my hubs have the later style.

                Michael Wilson.
                *unless you are attempting a fixed conversion using 2 clutches to engage both dogs and reduce backlash

              • John S. Allen
                Sounds like something inside isn t assembled quite right. Take the hub apart and check carefully.. Pinion pins and clutch in the right way? Correct pawls right
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
                  Sounds like something inside isn't assembled quite right. Take the
                  hub apart and check carefully.. Pinion pins and clutch in the right
                  way? Correct pawls right and left (angled, longer ones on the right)...etc.

                  Also, you must use a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed shifter with this hub.
                  The cable pull of the Sachs/SRAM and Shimano shifters is different.

                  I second jpbabic's comment about indicator spindle length. If the
                  spindle is too long, it will hang up on the side of the flared right axle nut.

                  At 03:45 PM 1/1/2014, mef@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >I have a 1952 Raleigh Dawn Tourist with the AW hub. I have no
                  >experiance with these hubs other than what I have read ( Sheldon and
                  >Hadland and etc ). I have completely dismantled the hub, cleaned,
                  >and reassembled with 10w30 motor oil.
                  >Now I have 2 questions; every time I pause pedaling when I start
                  >back up there is 1/4 - 1/2 turn of the crank before it re-engages,
                  >is this normal?
                  >What bothers me more is that in order to get all three gears with no
                  >free-wheeling in 2nd the cable is adjusted so tightly that 1st has
                  >NO slack at all - pulled tight like a guitar string. This can't be
                  >right. Sheldon says there should be a small amount of pull still
                  >available but I have none. I have been all over the map with
                  >adjustments and this is the only way it works. What would cause this?

                  John S. Allen

                  Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                  League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                  jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                  http://bikexprt.com
                  http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                  http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                • panurgist6
                  I did replace the shifter with a new one ( SA, new version of the original design). I also replaced the indicator rod with a new one because the chain on the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 2, 2014
                    I did replace the shifter with a new one ( SA, new version of the original design). I also replaced the indicator rod with a new one because the chain on the old one was stiff - the rod on the new one is longer than the original but I had matched them up and marked the new one. I guess the first thing to do is go back to the original pieces and then if no better tear it back down again. Thanks for all the help.
                  • Michael Wilson
                    Longer rod could easily be the issue. If so, and there is space, a washer or two behind the right side axle nut may fix it. Michael Wilson
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 11, 2014
                      Longer rod could easily be the issue.

                      If so, and there is space, a washer or two behind the right side axle nut may fix it.


                      Michael Wilson

                    • panurgist6
                      Been hit with the flu...hard. Every once in a while I go out into the garage and just stare wistfully. Plan of attack: I changed the indicator rod because the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 12, 2014
                        Been hit with the flu...hard. Every once in a while I go out into the garage and just stare wistfully.

                        Plan of attack: I changed the indicator rod because the chain on the original was so gummed and rusty. This time I'm going to soak it in PB Blaster, then wire brush it and try again. If that doesn't do anything, I'll switch back to the 1952 trigger ( pretty rough but maybe the spacing between the gears is different? ).
                        Re-reading the tear downs the ball cup threading can be started in 2 different spots, I'll back that off and try 180 degrees around.
                        I was very clean and patient with the internals - only used 10w30 synthetic motor oil, no grease until the bearings. If I do tear it all the way down what should I be looking for? Should I switch to ATF? What about stretching the little hair springs on the pawls for a stronger action?


                        I have fallen in love with this bike and really want it to work proper.

                      • Michael Wilson
                        Before you do anything else, look carefully at the indicator in low gear and see if the rod is at the end and the cable is trying to bend it. That is how you
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 18, 2014
                          Before you do anything else, look carefully at the indicator in low gear and see if the rod is at the end and the cable is trying to bend it.  That is how you know that the rod is too long.


                          Michael Wilson
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