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Sram G8 watch

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  • Zack B
    Video of a cargo bike: http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860 Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 16, 2013
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    • John S. Allen
      What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I can t find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of installation instructions, a
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 16, 2013
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        What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I
        can't find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of
        installation instructions, a spare parts list or rebuilding instructions.

        Standing offer: if anyone sends me one of these hubs, I'll
        disassemble and document it. And I'll try to put it back together for
        you, though I can't guarantee that because some Sachs/Sram hubs have
        parts that are destroyed on removal or can't be reassembled without
        factory tooling. .

        Check out

        http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/g8

        That page links to a "related service document" which contains
        information only on road and MTB product lines -- none about the G8.

        Wikipedia describes an overall range of 259.7%, which is rather
        narrow for an 8-speed hub. Where did Wikipedia get the information?
        It isn't in either of the two references cited. I read German...but
        that isn't even necessary to see that the numbers aren't there.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_G8

        This page indicates that SRAM lists weight of the hub as 2188 kg.

        The page does indicate that the hub is available with
        "Gates-Riemenantrieb." I'm not sure how Germans would pronounce
        "Gates." If they pronounced it as a German word, it would be like
        Gah-Tayss in English. Whatever :-)

        At 08:53 PM 11/16/2013, Zack B wrote:
        >
        >
        >Video of a cargo bike:
        >
        >http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860
        >
        >Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
        >
        >http://www.hashtagbikes.com/product_p/hu2550.htm
        >--
        >-Zack

        John S. Allen

        Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

        League Cycling Instructor #77-C

        jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
        http://bikexprt.com
        http://john-s-allen.com/blog
        http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
      • prester_john_in_cathay
        There s an old saying, Design a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. Inspirational, but, alas, total BS. Design that better
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 17, 2013
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          There's an old saying, "Design a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door."  Inspirational, but, alas, total BS.  Design that better mousetrap, creatively market the heck out of it, provide excellent OEM and consumer support and maybe, just maybe, you'll rise above the white noise of the marketplace.


          It's like SRAM learned nothing from the i9 debacle.  I dunno, maybe they're working the OEM side harder these days.



          ---In geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

          What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I
          can't find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of
          installation instructions, a spare parts list or rebuilding instructions.

          Standing offer: if anyone sends me one of these hubs, I'll
          disassemble and document it. And I'll try to put it back together for
          you, though I can't guarantee that because some Sachs/Sram hubs have
          parts that are destroyed on removal or can't be reassembled without
          factory tooling. .

          Check out

          http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/g8

          That page links to a "related service document" which contains
          information only on road and MTB product lines -- none about the G8.

          Wikipedia describes an overall range of 259.7%, which is rather
          narrow for an 8-speed hub. Where did Wikipedia get the information?
          It isn't in either of the two references cited. I read German...but
          that isn't even necessary to see that the numbers aren't there.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_G8

          This page indicates that SRAM lists weight of the hub as 2188 kg.

          The page does indicate that the hub is available with
          "Gates-Riemenantrieb." I'm not sure how Germans would pronounce
          "Gates." If they pronounced it as a German word, it would be like
          Gah-Tayss in English. Whatever :-)

          At 08:53 PM 11/16/2013, Zack B wrote:
          >
          >
          >Video of a cargo bike:
          >
          >http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860
          >
          >Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
          >
          >http://www.hashtagbikes.com/product_p/hu2550.htm
          >--
          >-Zack

          John S. Allen

          Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

          League Cycling Instructor #77-C

          jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
          http://bikexprt.com
          http://john-s-allen.com/blog
          http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
        • John S. Allen
          ... You said it, brother. John S. Allen Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com League Cycling Instructor #77-C jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 17, 2013
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            At 09:16 AM 11/17/2013, prester_john_in_cathay@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >There's an old saying, "Design a better mouse trap and the world
            >will beat a path to your door." Inspirational, but, alas, total
            >BS. Design that better mousetrap, creatively market the heck out of
            >it, provide excellent OEM and consumer support and maybe, just
            >maybe, you'll rise above the white noise of the marketplace.

            You said it, brother.

            John S. Allen

            Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

            League Cycling Instructor #77-C

            jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
            http://bikexprt.com
            http://john-s-allen.com/blog
            http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
          • Zack B
            One of my local shops has them in stock. They said SRAM won t even tell them the specs. ... -- -Zack
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 17, 2013
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              One of my local shops has them in stock.

              They said SRAM won't even tell them the specs.



              On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, John S. Allen <jsallen@...> wrote:
               

              What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I
              can't find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of
              installation instructions, a spare parts list or rebuilding instructions.

              Standing offer: if anyone sends me one of these hubs, I'll
              disassemble and document it. And I'll try to put it back together for
              you, though I can't guarantee that because some Sachs/Sram hubs have
              parts that are destroyed on removal or can't be reassembled without
              factory tooling. .

              Check out

              http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/g8

              That page links to a "related service document" which contains
              information only on road and MTB product lines -- none about the G8.

              Wikipedia describes an overall range of 259.7%, which is rather
              narrow for an 8-speed hub. Where did Wikipedia get the information?
              It isn't in either of the two references cited. I read German...but
              that isn't even necessary to see that the numbers aren't there.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_G8

              This page indicates that SRAM lists weight of the hub as 2188 kg.

              The page does indicate that the hub is available with
              "Gates-Riemenantrieb." I'm not sure how Germans would pronounce
              "Gates." If they pronounced it as a German word, it would be like
              Gah-Tayss in English. Whatever :-)



              At 08:53 PM 11/16/2013, Zack B wrote:
              >
              >
              >Video of a cargo bike:
              >
              >http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860
              >
              >Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
              >
              >http://www.hashtagbikes.com/product_p/hu2550.htm
              >--
              >-Zack

              John S. Allen

              Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

              League Cycling Instructor #77-C

              jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
              http://bikexprt.com
              http://john-s-allen.com/blog
              http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts




              --
              -Zack
            • Zack B
              What is truly amazing is that the attitude from SRAM is actually getting worse. They published the IMotion specs. Now it is a secret? What? Why even sell them
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 18, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                What is truly amazing is that the attitude from SRAM is actually getting worse. They published the IMotion specs. Now it is a secret? What? Why even sell them at all?

                Can you image AVID coming out with a new disc brake and just flat refusing to tell anyone the bolt pattern? Or SRAM refusing to tell anyone how many speeds the new derailleur drivetrain has? Why the hell can't the ************ running the gear hub division cut and paste a single page of specs?

                The sad part is this could be a great hub. But with such an obvious shot across the bow of "please FOAD after the tone" customer service attitude, why bother? It will only get worse after they have your money. What other idiocy do they have up their sleeves? Another secret self-destruct bolt? Something worse? Maybe this time the "German Engineering" put it in the coaster brake so you can't repack it.

                My ten bucks says the AR washers crack and you can't get replacements. I would also expect that whatever little bolt they use in the cassette joint thing will be designed to fail, won't be Shimano compatible, and won't be available, sorry, you have to buy a new hub.

                The coaster brake looks like the one from the IM3. It is designed for small children and will cause catastrophic failures when installed on the cargo & electric bikes this hub is presumably designed for. It will also fail on a normal bike when set up outside of the proper ratio, and of course information like that is now a secret. Along with the chainline and apparently the wheel building specs. How is anyone supposed to sell one if they can't build a wheel out of it?

                So here we are again, everyone else drops the ball all over the place and Shimano scores. I hate it, but what can you do? Sunrace's quality is in the toilet, and SRAM has spandex asshat syndrome.


                On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Zack B <zoombomber@...> wrote:
                One of my local shops has them in stock.

                They said SRAM won't even tell them the specs.



                On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, John S. Allen <jsallen@...> wrote:
                 

                What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I
                can't find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of
                installation instructions, a spare parts list or rebuilding instructions.

                Standing offer: if anyone sends me one of these hubs, I'll
                disassemble and document it. And I'll try to put it back together for
                you, though I can't guarantee that because some Sachs/Sram hubs have
                parts that are destroyed on removal or can't be reassembled without
                factory tooling. .

                Check out

                http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/g8

                That page links to a "related service document" which contains
                information only on road and MTB product lines -- none about the G8.

                Wikipedia describes an overall range of 259.7%, which is rather
                narrow for an 8-speed hub. Where did Wikipedia get the information?
                It isn't in either of the two references cited. I read German...but
                that isn't even necessary to see that the numbers aren't there.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_G8

                This page indicates that SRAM lists weight of the hub as 2188 kg.

                The page does indicate that the hub is available with
                "Gates-Riemenantrieb." I'm not sure how Germans would pronounce
                "Gates." If they pronounced it as a German word, it would be like
                Gah-Tayss in English. Whatever :-)



                At 08:53 PM 11/16/2013, Zack B wrote:
                >
                >
                >Video of a cargo bike:
                >
                >http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860
                >
                >Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
                >
                >http://www.hashtagbikes.com/product_p/hu2550.htm
                >--
                >-Zack

                John S. Allen

                Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                http://bikexprt.com
                http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts




                --
                -Zack



                --
                -Zack
              • cliff647
                From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates technical guide it looks like they ve created yet another sprocket interface with 4 tabs. From
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
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                  From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates technical guide it looks like they've created yet another sprocket interface with 4 tabs.  From a belt drive standpoint it's aggravating that the IGH manufacturers are either doing this, or sticking with the old 3 tab standard.  SA has released a few with the 9 spline system (with a short, non-dual drive type sprocket carrier) but for the most part they're sticking to the old 3 tab, or their 8 speed standard.  To me the Gates system opens up a larger market for IGHs, and you'd think they'd respond by changing over to the 9 spline standard which provides a more secure mount, more belt line adjustability, and compatibility with the much larger selection of SS sprockets. 



                  ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <zoombomber@...> wrote:

                  What is truly amazing is that the attitude from SRAM is actually getting worse. They published the IMotion specs. Now it is a secret? What? Why even sell them at all?

                  Can you image AVID coming out with a new disc brake and just flat refusing to tell anyone the bolt pattern? Or SRAM refusing to tell anyone how many speeds the new derailleur drivetrain has? Why the hell can't the ************ running the gear hub division cut and paste a single page of specs?

                  The sad part is this could be a great hub. But with such an obvious shot across the bow of "please FOAD after the tone" customer service attitude, why bother? It will only get worse after they have your money. What other idiocy do they have up their sleeves? Another secret self-destruct bolt? Something worse? Maybe this time the "German Engineering" put it in the coaster brake so you can't repack it.

                  My ten bucks says the AR washers crack and you can't get replacements. I would also expect that whatever little bolt they use in the cassette joint thing will be designed to fail, won't be Shimano compatible, and won't be available, sorry, you have to buy a new hub.

                  The coaster brake looks like the one from the IM3. It is designed for small children and will cause catastrophic failures when installed on the cargo & electric bikes this hub is presumably designed for. It will also fail on a normal bike when set up outside of the proper ratio, and of course information like that is now a secret. Along with the chainline and apparently the wheel building specs. How is anyone supposed to sell one if they can't build a wheel out of it?

                  So here we are again, everyone else drops the ball all over the place and Shimano scores. I hate it, but what can you do? Sunrace's quality is in the toilet, and SRAM has spandex asshat syndrome.


                  On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Zack B <zoombomber@...> wrote:
                  One of my local shops has them in stock.

                  They said SRAM won't even tell them the specs.



                  On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:55 PM, John S. Allen <jsallen@...> wrote:
                   

                  What would be nice is ANY technical information about this hub. I
                  can't find anything online about the ratios, not to speak of
                  installation instructions, a spare parts list or rebuilding instructions.

                  Standing offer: if anyone sends me one of these hubs, I'll
                  disassemble and document it. And I'll try to put it back together for
                  you, though I can't guarantee that because some Sachs/Sram hubs have
                  parts that are destroyed on removal or can't be reassembled without
                  factory tooling. .

                  Check out

                  http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/g8

                  That page links to a "related service document" which contains
                  information only on road and MTB product lines -- none about the G8.

                  Wikipedia describes an overall range of 259.7%, which is rather
                  narrow for an 8-speed hub. Where did Wikipedia get the information?
                  It isn't in either of the two references cited. I read German...but
                  that isn't even necessary to see that the numbers aren't there.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_G8

                  This page indicates that SRAM lists weight of the hub as 2188 kg.

                  The page does indicate that the hub is available with
                  "Gates-Riemenantrieb." I'm not sure how Germans would pronounce
                  "Gates." If they pronounced it as a German word, it would be like
                  Gah-Tayss in English. Whatever :-)



                  At 08:53 PM 11/16/2013, Zack B wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >Video of a cargo bike:
                  >
                  >http://www.frequency.com/video/yasujiro-mini-cargo-bike/130131122/-/5-2860
                  >
                  >Photo next to a cog (looks like the im9 one)
                  >
                  >http://www.hashtagbikes.com/product_p/hu2550.htm
                  >--
                  >-Zack

                  John S. Allen

                  Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                  League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                  jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                  http://bikexprt.com
                  http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                  http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts




                  --
                  -Zack



                  --
                  -Zack
                • John S. Allen
                  ... I m happy enough with the old 3-tab standard, for chain drive anyway, with sprockets available from multiple sources. The Shimano 9-spline standard does
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 08:34 AM 11/19/2013, karlcliff@... wrote:
                    >
                    > From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates
                    > technical guide it looks like they've created yet another sprocket
                    > interface with 4 tabs. From a belt drive standpoint it's
                    > aggravating that the IGH manufacturers are either doing this, or
                    > sticking with the old 3 tab standard. SA has released a few with
                    > the 9 spline system (with a short, non-dual drive type sprocket
                    > carrier) but for the most part they're sticking to the old 3 tab,
                    > or their 8 speed standard. To me the Gates system opens up a
                    > larger market for IGHs, and you'd think they'd respond by changing
                    > over to the 9 spline standard which provides a more secure mount,
                    > more belt line adjustability, and compatibility with the much
                    > larger selection of SS sprockets.

                    I'm happy enough with the old 3-tab standard, for chain drive anyway,
                    with sprockets available from multiple sources.

                    The Shimano 9-spline standard does allow use of cassette sprockets,
                    possibly two, for hybrid gearing, without the Sheldon Brown
                    modification of grinding off 6 of the tabs on sprockets.

                    The larger sprocket hole of the i-Motion 9, G8 and Sturmey-Archer
                    8-speed is necessary to accommodate the internal mechanism. But
                    wouldn't it be nice if sprockets for all of these were interchangeable?

                    Agreed, modern hubs should be available in a version which accepts
                    the Gates belt drive, but one issue is that the width of the belt may
                    require significant changes in the hub which might not be desirable
                    otherwise -- wider driver, increased overlocknut spacing, longer axle, etc.

                    John S. Allen

                    Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                    League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                    jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                    http://bikexprt.com
                    http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                    http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                  • aarons_bicycle_repair
                    The G8 hub is currently available. Many online retailers use Smart E-tailing, which just puts Quality Bicycle Products listings on the retailers and makes it
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      The G8 hub is currently available.


                      Many online retailers use Smart E-tailing, which just puts Quality Bicycle Products' listings on the retailers and makes it look like they are fancy.  I have asked my SRAM rep at QBP to update the info like flange diameter, etc on their listing and when they do it will be all over the web,

                      For example:  http://www.bikeman.com/HU2553.html

                      Also, it looks like SRAM might actually be enforcing their MAP policy because it is not discounted, but even still they cannot resist saving you a dollar. Note the price is $1 under!


                      It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring will fit the i-Motion 9

                      (Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)

                      There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!


                      I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with enough lubricant.  They need an oil bath.



                      ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

                      At 08:34 AM 11/19/2013, karlcliff@... wrote:
                      >
                      > From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates
                      > technical guide it looks like they've created yet another sprocket
                      > interface with 4 tabs. From a belt drive standpoint it's
                      > aggravating that the IGH manufacturers are either doing this, or
                      > sticking with the old 3 tab standard. SA has released a few with
                      > the 9 spline system (with a short, non-dual drive type sprocket
                      > carrier) but for the most part they're sticking to the old 3 tab,
                      > or their 8 speed standard. To me the Gates system opens up a
                      > larger market for IGHs, and you'd think they'd respond by changing
                      > over to the 9 spline standard which provides a more secure mount,
                      > more belt line adjustability, and compatibility with the much
                      > larger selection of SS sprockets.

                      I'm happy enough with the old 3-tab standard, for chain drive anyway,
                      with sprockets available from multiple sources.

                      The Shimano 9-spline standard does allow use of cassette sprockets,
                      possibly two, for hybrid gearing, without the Sheldon Brown
                      modification of grinding off 6 of the tabs on sprockets.

                      The larger sprocket hole of the i-Motion 9, G8 and Sturmey-Archer
                      8-speed is necessary to accommodate the internal mechanism. But
                      wouldn't it be nice if sprockets for all of these were interchangeable?

                      Agreed, modern hubs should be available in a version which accepts
                      the Gates belt drive, but one issue is that the width of the belt may
                      require significant changes in the hub which might not be desirable
                      otherwise -- wider driver, increased overlocknut spacing, longer axle, etc.

                      John S. Allen

                      Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                      League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                      jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                      http://bikexprt.com
                      http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                      http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                    • John S. Allen
                      ... The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with interchangeable index plates --
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 03:06 PM 11/19/2013, aaron@... wrote:
                        >
                        >It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring
                        >will fit the i-Motion 9
                        >
                        >(Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)
                        >
                        >There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source
                        >says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!

                        The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                        shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                        interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                        Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds,
                        but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. There's the JTek
                        shifter for the Nexus/Alfine 8-speeds, but I've heard that
                        availability is an issue.

                        >I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with
                        >enough lubricant. They need an oil bath.

                        I'll have more to say when I've studied how the gearing works. The
                        gears which failed in David Chase's hub look rather small.

                        John S. Allen

                        Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                        League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                        jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                        http://bikexprt.com
                        http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                        http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                      • 7af954b391e7859bf4cd2db5f60195da
                        I emailed the SRAM USA rep about the G8 a few months ago and he sent this: Thanks for your inquiry. Here’s what we have for the G8 hub: 8 speed system with a
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment

                          I emailed the SRAM USA rep about the G8 a few months ago and he sent this:


                          Thanks for your inquiry. Here’s what we have for the G8 hub:

                           

                          8 speed system with a 259,7% total.

                          Speed 1= 60,9%

                          Speed 2= 71,0%

                          Speed 3= 80,3%

                          Speed 4= 90,3%

                          Speed 5= 105,4%

                          Speed 6= 120,4%

                          Speed 7= 135,5%

                          Speed 8= 158,1%

                           

                          Chain line= 49,0mm

                          OLD= 135

                          Diameter axle M10x1

                          Hole Diameter 3,0mm

                          Ratio= Coaster 1,9-2,0/ Freewheel & Disc min 1,9

                           

                          Regards,

                          Brook Fowler

                          SRAM LLC

                          www.sram.com

                           



                          ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <aaron@...> wrote:

                          The G8 hub is currently available.


                          Many online retailers use Smart E-tailing, which just puts Quality Bicycle Products' listings on the retailers and makes it look like they are fancy.  I have asked my SRAM rep at QBP to update the info like flange diameter, etc on their listing and when they do it will be all over the web,

                          For example:  http://www.bikeman.com/HU2553.html

                          Also, it looks like SRAM might actually be enforcing their MAP policy because it is not discounted, but even still they cannot resist saving you a dollar. Note the price is $1 under!


                          It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring will fit the i-Motion 9

                          (Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)

                          There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!


                          I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with enough lubricant.  They need an oil bath.



                          ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

                          At 08:34 AM 11/19/2013, karlcliff@... wrote:
                          >
                          > From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates
                          > technical guide it looks like they've created yet another sprocket
                          > interface with 4 tabs. From a belt drive standpoint it's
                          > aggravating that the IGH manufacturers are either doing this, or
                          > sticking with the old 3 tab standard. SA has released a few with
                          > the 9 spline system (with a short, non-dual drive type sprocket
                          > carrier) but for the most part they're sticking to the old 3 tab,
                          > or their 8 speed standard. To me the Gates system opens up a
                          > larger market for IGHs, and you'd think they'd respond by changing
                          > over to the 9 spline standard which provides a more secure mount,
                          > more belt line adjustability, and compatibility with the much
                          > larger selection of SS sprockets.

                          I'm happy enough with the old 3-tab standard, for chain drive anyway,
                          with sprockets available from multiple sources.

                          The Shimano 9-spline standard does allow use of cassette sprockets,
                          possibly two, for hybrid gearing, without the Sheldon Brown
                          modification of grinding off 6 of the tabs on sprockets.

                          The larger sprocket hole of the i-Motion 9, G8 and Sturmey-Archer
                          8-speed is necessary to accommodate the internal mechanism. But
                          wouldn't it be nice if sprockets for all of these were interchangeable?

                          Agreed, modern hubs should be available in a version which accepts
                          the Gates belt drive, but one issue is that the width of the belt may
                          require significant changes in the hub which might not be desirable
                          otherwise -- wider driver, increased overlocknut spacing, longer axle, etc.

                          John S. Allen

                          Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                          League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                          jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                          http://bikexprt.com
                          http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                          http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                        • Alex Wetmore
                          From: John S. Allen ... It would also need to pull a ton of cable. The i9 shifter pulls about three times as much cable overall as a
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            From: John S. Allen <jsallen@...>
                            > The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                            > shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                            > interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.

                            It would also need to pull a ton of cable. The i9 shifter pulls about three times as much cable overall as a Shimano barend shifter. The barrel size would be huge, which makes it hard to fit into the regular configuration.

                            alex
                          • brucemetras
                            Jeff Meredith offers a shifter with interchangeable index plates for his HotRod bikes .. http://www.boxkars.com/docs/60-100_manual.pdf Might be adaptable to
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Jeff Meredith offers a shifter with interchangeable index plates for his HotRod bikes ..


                              http://www.boxkars.com/docs/60-100_manual.pdf


                              Might be adaptable to handlebar mount or modified for individual taste.



                              ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

                              At 03:06 PM 11/19/2013, aaron@... wrote:
                              >
                              >It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring
                              >will fit the i-Motion 9
                              >
                              >(Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)
                              >
                              >There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source
                              >says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!

                              The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                              shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                              interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                              Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds,
                              but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. There's the JTek
                              shifter for the Nexus/Alfine 8-speeds, but I've heard that
                              availability is an issue.

                              >I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with
                              >enough lubricant. They need an oil bath.

                              I'll have more to say when I've studied how the gearing works. The
                              gears which failed in David Chase's hub look rather small.

                              John S. Allen

                              Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                              League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                              jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                              http://bikexprt.com
                              http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                              http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                            • Zack B
                              Some interesting photos here:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Is this another hub next to the G8 or just a different shell, perhaps the electric version?

                                https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900823494046287474?pid=5900823494046287474&oid=102089916348081391731

                                http://downtown-ebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SRAM_Urban_Days16-780x585.jpg

                                An electric hub:

                                https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821851681778146?pid=5900821851681778146&oid=102089916348081391731

                                https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821899273844738?pid=5900821899273844738&oid=102089916348081391731

                                The SRAM attack bots sent to hunt down and kill anyone who might leak the secrets of the G8:

                                http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=11793397@N02&q=sram

                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/23562647@N07/2265304751/in/photostream/



                                On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:20 PM, <brucemetras@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Jeff Meredith offers a shifter with interchangeable index plates for his HotRod bikes ..


                                http://www.boxkars.com/docs/60-100_manual.pdf


                                Might be adaptable to handlebar mount or modified for individual taste.



                                ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:


                                At 03:06 PM 11/19/2013, aaron@... wrote:
                                >
                                >It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring
                                >will fit the i-Motion 9
                                >
                                >(Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)
                                >
                                >There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source
                                >says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!

                                The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                                shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                                interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                                Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds,
                                but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. There's the JTek
                                shifter for the Nexus/Alfine 8-speeds, but I've heard that
                                availability is an issue.

                                >I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with
                                >enough lubricant. They need an oil bath.

                                I'll have more to say when I've studied how the gearing works. The
                                gears which failed in David Chase's hub look rather small.

                                John S. Allen

                                Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                http://bikexprt.com
                                http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts




                                --
                                -Zack
                              • prester_john_in_cathay
                                And is this how the G8 operates?
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  And is this how the G8 operates?


                                  https://plus.google.com/photos/+TorbenFinnLaursen/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821851681778146?pid=5900821851681778146&oid=102089916348081391731



                                  ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <zoombomber@...> wrote:

                                  Is this another hub next to the G8 or just a different shell, perhaps the electric version?

                                  https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900823494046287474?pid=5900823494046287474&oid=102089916348081391731

                                  http://downtown-ebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SRAM_Urban_Days16-780x585.jpg

                                  An electric hub:

                                  https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821851681778146?pid=5900821851681778146&oid=102089916348081391731

                                  https://plus.google.com/photos/102089916348081391731/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821899273844738?pid=5900821899273844738&oid=102089916348081391731

                                  The SRAM attack bots sent to hunt down and kill anyone who might leak the secrets of the G8:

                                  http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=11793397@N02&q=sram

                                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/23562647@N07/2265304751/in/photostream/



                                  On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:20 PM, <brucemetras@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Jeff Meredith offers a shifter with interchangeable index plates for his HotRod bikes ..


                                  http://www.boxkars.com/docs/60-100_manual.pdf


                                  Might be adaptable to handlebar mount or modified for individual taste.



                                  ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:


                                  At 03:06 PM 11/19/2013, aaron@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  >It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring
                                  >will fit the i-Motion 9
                                  >
                                  >(Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)
                                  >
                                  >There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source
                                  >says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!

                                  The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                                  shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                                  interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                                  Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds,
                                  but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. There's the JTek
                                  shifter for the Nexus/Alfine 8-speeds, but I've heard that
                                  availability is an issue.

                                  >I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with
                                  >enough lubricant. They need an oil bath.

                                  I'll have more to say when I've studied how the gearing works. The
                                  gears which failed in David Chase's hub look rather small.

                                  John S. Allen

                                  Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                  League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                  jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                  http://bikexprt.com
                                  http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                  http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts



                                  --
                                  -Zack
                                • prester_john_in_cathay
                                  Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds, but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. ... The i9 shifter is not rocket
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    "Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds, 

                                    but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck."


                                    ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

                                    At 03:06 PM 11/19/2013, aaron@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    >It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring
                                    >will fit the i-Motion 9
                                    >
                                    >(Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)
                                    >
                                    >There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source
                                    >says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!

                                    The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                                    shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                                    interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                                    Sturmey-Archer listed a bar-end shifter for its pull-chain 5 speeds,
                                    but when I tried to by one, my LBS said no luck. There's the JTek
                                    shifter for the Nexus/Alfine 8-speeds, but I've heard that
                                    availability is an issue.

                                    >I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with
                                    >enough lubricant. They need an oil bath.

                                    I'll have more to say when I've studied how the gearing works. The
                                    gears which failed in David Chase's hub look rather small.

                                    John S. Allen

                                    Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                    League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                    jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                    http://bikexprt.com
                                    http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                    http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts

                                    Others on various 'net boards have reported buying and using the bar-end for the Sturmey 5.  I don't want to get back into the whole internet vs. LBS thing, but Soma Fab shows them in stock right now.
                                  • prester_john_in_cathay
                                    So, no direct drive, like the Shimano 5, 7 and 11 gear IGHs? ... I emailed the SRAM USA rep about the G8 a few months ago and he sent this: Thanks for your
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
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                                      So, no direct drive, like the Shimano 5, 7 and 11 gear IGHs? 



                                      ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <whitaker.jeffrey@...> wrote:

                                      I emailed the SRAM USA rep about the G8 a few months ago and he sent this:


                                      Thanks for your inquiry. Here’s what we have for the G8 hub:

                                       

                                      8 speed system with a 259,7% total.

                                      Speed 1= 60,9%

                                      Speed 2= 71,0%

                                      Speed 3= 80,3%

                                      Speed 4= 90,3%

                                      Speed 5= 105,4%

                                      Speed 6= 120,4%

                                      Speed 7= 135,5%

                                      Speed 8= 158,1%

                                       

                                      Chain line= 49,0mm

                                      OLD= 135

                                      Diameter axle M10x1

                                      Hole Diameter 3,0mm

                                      Ratio= Coaster 1,9-2,0/ Freewheel & Disc min 1,9

                                       

                                      Regards,

                                      Brook Fowler

                                      SRAM LLC

                                      www.sram.com

                                       



                                      ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <aaron@...> wrote:

                                      The G8 hub is currently available.


                                      Many online retailers use Smart E-tailing, which just puts Quality Bicycle Products' listings on the retailers and makes it look like they are fancy.  I have asked my SRAM rep at QBP to update the info like flange diameter, etc on their listing and when they do it will be all over the web,

                                      For example:  http://www.bikeman.com/HU2553.html

                                      Also, it looks like SRAM might actually be enforcing their MAP policy because it is not discounted, but even still they cannot resist saving you a dollar. Note the price is $1 under!


                                      It looks like the axle nuts, non-turn washers, and cog & snap ring will fit the i-Motion 9

                                      (Which is good news because I just got several NOS i9s from China)

                                      There are more there and if I can get the shifters (which my source says are available) then I could reintroduce the i9!


                                      I think the main issue with i9 hubs was that they did not come with enough lubricant.  They need an oil bath.



                                      ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <jsallen@...> wrote:

                                      At 08:34 AM 11/19/2013, karlcliff@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From photos of this hub on ebay, and also looking at the Gates
                                      > technical guide it looks like they've created yet another sprocket
                                      > interface with 4 tabs. From a belt drive standpoint it's
                                      > aggravating that the IGH manufacturers are either doing this, or
                                      > sticking with the old 3 tab standard. SA has released a few with
                                      > the 9 spline system (with a short, non-dual drive type sprocket
                                      > carrier) but for the most part they're sticking to the old 3 tab,
                                      > or their 8 speed standard. To me the Gates system opens up a
                                      > larger market for IGHs, and you'd think they'd respond by changing
                                      > over to the 9 spline standard which provides a more secure mount,
                                      > more belt line adjustability, and compatibility with the much
                                      > larger selection of SS sprockets.

                                      I'm happy enough with the old 3-tab standard, for chain drive anyway,
                                      with sprockets available from multiple sources.

                                      The Shimano 9-spline standard does allow use of cassette sprockets,
                                      possibly two, for hybrid gearing, without the Sheldon Brown
                                      modification of grinding off 6 of the tabs on sprockets.

                                      The larger sprocket hole of the i-Motion 9, G8 and Sturmey-Archer
                                      8-speed is necessary to accommodate the internal mechanism. But
                                      wouldn't it be nice if sprockets for all of these were interchangeable?

                                      Agreed, modern hubs should be available in a version which accepts
                                      the Gates belt drive, but one issue is that the width of the belt may
                                      require significant changes in the hub which might not be desirable
                                      otherwise -- wider driver, increased overlocknut spacing, longer axle, etc.

                                      John S. Allen

                                      Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                      League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                      jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                      http://bikexprt.com
                                      http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                      http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                                    • John S. Allen
                                      ... I d be happy with a twist-grip shifter like the one sold with the i-Motion 9, but designed to fit a 23.8 mm diameter handlebar. The cable would have to
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        At 05:39 PM 11/19/2013, Alex Wetmore wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >From: John S. Allen <jsallen@...>
                                        > > The i9 shifter is not rocket science -- only an indexed twist
                                        > > shifter. I could hope that someone would make a shfiter with
                                        > > interchangeable index plates -- also that would fit drop bars.
                                        >
                                        >It would also need to pull a ton of cable. The i9 shifter pulls
                                        >about three times as much cable overall as a Shimano barend shifter.
                                        >The barrel size would be huge, which makes it hard to fit into the
                                        >regular configuration.

                                        I'd be happy with a twist-grip shifter like the one sold with the
                                        i-Motion 9, but designed to fit a 23.8 mm diameter handlebar. The
                                        cable would have to exit parallel to the end of a drop bar (easily
                                        done by running the cable through a "noodle"), and/or the clamp would
                                        have to be split or expandable to fit the shifter to the top of the
                                        handlebar near the stem, above the brake lever.

                                        John S. Allen

                                        Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                        League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                        jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                        http://bikexprt.com
                                        http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                        http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                                      • John S. Allen
                                        Thanks, Jeffrey. What magic do you have to extract this information from SRAM? :-) This gives increments as follows: 1.166 1.131 1.125 1.167 1.142 1.125 1.167
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks, Jeffrey. What magic do you have to extract this information
                                          from SRAM? :-)

                                          This gives increments as follows:

                                          1.166

                                          1.131

                                          1.125

                                          1.167

                                          1.142

                                          1.125

                                          1.167

                                          Total ratiois, then, 2.596.

                                          Numbers could be off by one or two thousandths due to rounding.
                                          Published specs say that the range is 2.597..

                                          Note repeating pattern of 1.125 and 1.167, which suggests strongly
                                          that the hub has two stages, one producing small steps, the other a
                                          large step, like the Nexus/ Alfine 8-speed and 11-speed.

                                          At least with this information it is possible to determine which
                                          choices of sprocket and chainwheel produce the desired gear range.

                                          At 03:39 PM 11/19/2013, whitaker.jeffrey@... wrote:
                                          >Speed 1= 60,9%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 2= 71,0%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 3= 80,3%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 4= 90,3%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 5= 105,4%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 6= 120,4%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 7= 135,5%
                                          >
                                          >Speed 8= 158,1%

                                          John S. Allen

                                          Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

                                          League Cycling Instructor #77-C

                                          jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
                                          http://bikexprt.com
                                          http://john-s-allen.com/blog
                                          http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
                                        • John S. Allen
                                          ... Aha! Here are the gear tooth counts for a hub and I think it might be the G8:
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Nov 19, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            At 07:17 PM 11/19/2013, Zack B wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Some interesting photos here:

                                            Aha! Here are the gear tooth counts for a hub and I think it might be the G8:

                                            https://plus.google.com/photos/+TorbenFinnLaursen/albums/5900820020136292705/5900821851681778146?pid=5900821851681778146&oid=102089916348081391731

                                            Recalculation is forthcoming.

                                            John S. Allen
                                            7 University Park
                                            Waltham, MA 02453-1523 USA
                                            781 891-9307
                                            jsallen@...
                                            http://bikexprt.com
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