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Nexus Inter 3 (3R40) hub failures

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  • Jeff Bertolet
    This is intended to point out the most likely failures of the Nexus 3R40 hubs and how to prevent or fix them. These failures are very rare and are due to poor
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 25, 2013

    This is intended to point out the most likely failures of the Nexus 3R40 hubs and how to prevent or fix them. These failures are very rare and are due to poor installation/adjustment and user error. By no means are these hubs prone to failure, but in dealing with thousands of hubs ridden millions of miles, failures are bound to happen.


    The hubs on these particular bikes have an input ratio of 38/23 with 26x1.95 tires. At this low input ratio it is extremely important that the axle be greased and all nuts be installed at a sufficient torque to resist the axle turning in the dropouts. These hubs are shipped from the manufacturer with the cone locknuts insufficiently tight to resist these forces (as well as the axle ungreased). After many rides (sometimes taking as long as 9 months or 1500 rides, sometimes as few as 300 rides) the axle nuts loosen and the non-turn washer strips the threads on the axle, the bearing adjustment become too tight, damaging the nondrive side hub bearing race (see attached picture DSC02660) and rendering the axle and hub shell unusable. All other parts can be salvaged and used to repair hubs broken in other ways.


    In trying to isolate the cause of this, I greased the axle and installed the nuts to the proper torque, leaving the cone/locknuts untouched; they continued to fail. It became apparent that as the axle nuts loosened, it was possible to catch the failure before catastrophic failure to the axle and return the hub to a useable condition by readjusting the bearing preload and tightening the cone locknuts. There is so much thread engagement on the cones and locknuts there is very little danger of stripping them as would be the case on a normal hub or even the S-A hubs with only 3-4 threads engaged by the cone locknuts.


    There were a couple indications that the cone locknuts were insufficiently tight and failure was imminent: axle nuts loosening, roller brake locknut loose (could be turned with cone wrench on the bike without loosening axle nuts) and a mushy feeling at the pedals when applying pressure after a shift.


    In addition to the failures of hubs pre-installed on bikes, we also experienced similar failures of hubs we got from a wholesaler which were subsequently installed on the bikes. I haven't found any other reports of this happening with bikes available to the general public. Either the bike manufacturers are properly adjusting the hub prior to sale (which ours does not, and the purchaser of the bikes is not interested in having the mechanics invest the time necessary to prevent the problem during assembly), the mechanic at the bike shop is properly adjusting them prior to retail sale, the absence of the roller brake on most nexus equipped bikes sold in the US prevents the problem, or the input gearing is sufficiently high that the manufacturer's torque spec is sufficient to prevent the failure.


    The other failure that we see is probably due to user error by attempting to shift under load. Small parts of the driver start to break off (see attached picture DSC02661) and become lodged around the clutch preventing it from fully engaging certain gears (sometimes 3rd, sometimes 1st sometimes both). I haven't pinpointed the exact cause since it would appear that there should not be any contact between the piece that breaks and any other part of the hub internal cassette. If the problem is identified before the broken pieces cause further damage to the clutch, pawls, or springs, the internals can be cleaned and reassembled and the hub appears to function identically to an undamaged hub. 


    It's possible that the remaining pieces of the driver would be more likely to fail under adverse conditions in this rehabilitated, but it would seem preferable to damaging a recently installed new internal cassette. I'm not sure I would recommend it to regular users, but on our scale rehabilitating the damaged driver represents significant cost savings.

  • jpbabic
    Thanks for posting this. Suppose you could provide some background? I m going to guess you are part of a bike rental/share program.
    Message 2 of 16 , Oct 25, 2013
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      Thanks for posting this. Suppose you could provide some background? I'm going to guess you are part of a bike rental/share program.
    • askeigkdnbceodk
      Yes, a bikeshare. I have been a mechanic there for almost two years. I don t claim to be as knowledgeable about certain mechanical properties as others, but
      Message 3 of 16 , Oct 25, 2013
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        Yes, a bikeshare.  I have been a mechanic there for almost two years. I don't claim to be as knowledgeable about certain mechanical properties as others, but when you work on the exact same bikes with the exact same parts a few thousand times, it doesn't take much to notice patterns.


        These two types of failures together represent approx a 1% failure rate each year, this with far more rides per bike per day than most individuals do on their personal bike.



        ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Thanks for posting this. Suppose you could provide some background? I'm going to guess you are part of a bike rental/share program.
      • prester_john_in_cathay
        I m surprised (and pleased) that you haven t noticed any significant rate of damage/failure due to moisture ingress with these hubs in their factory lubed
        Message 4 of 16 , Oct 26, 2013
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          I'm surprised (and pleased) that you haven't noticed any significant rate of damage/failure due to moisture ingress with these hubs in their factory lubed state the way some users of Shimano IGHs have reported.  What's your climate like?  Perhaps it helps that these rental bikes live outdoors all the time year round.


          pj



          ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Yes, a bikeshare.  I have been a mechanic there for almost two years. I don't claim to be as knowledgeable about certain mechanical properties as others, but when you work on the exact same bikes with the exact same parts a few thousand times, it doesn't take much to notice patterns.


          These two types of failures together represent approx a 1% failure rate each year, this with far more rides per bike per day than most individuals do on their personal bike.



          ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Thanks for posting this. Suppose you could provide some background? I'm going to guess you are part of a bike rental/share program.
        • askeigkdnbceodk
          Water ingress is definitely a problem on the drive side. The factory grease lasts about ~1 yr under conditions here (moderate rain-42 inches/yr, very little
          Message 5 of 16 , Oct 27, 2013
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            Water ingress is definitely a problem on the drive side. The factory grease lasts about ~1 yr under conditions here (moderate rain-42 inches/yr, very little snow). The rims get bent so frequently (15% of the fleet per year has the rear wheel replaced), that we have an opportunity to regrease the hubs prior to rebuilding the wheels. While the water is certainly a problem, it didn't seem worth noting since anyone looking at the hub would note the pathetic seal and individual replacement parts (bearings/cones) are available unlike for the other two problems mentioned.



            ---In geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:

            I'm surprised (and pleased) that you haven't noticed any significant rate of damage/failure due to moisture ingress with these hubs in their factory lubed state the way some users of Shimano IGHs have reported.  What's your climate like?  Perhaps it helps that these rental bikes live outdoors all the time year round.


            pj



          • John S. Allen
            This is really useful info. Running a fleet of bicycles does indeed make it possible to discern patterns. Bearing retainers/balls and cones are avilable but
            Message 6 of 16 , Oct 27, 2013
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              This is really useful info. Running a fleet of bicycles does indeed
              make it possible to discern patterns.

              Bearing retainers/balls and cones are avilable but the kicker with
              many hubs (starting with the Shimano cartridge 3-speeds back in the
              1970s and continuing with many others is that the right-hand bearing
              cup is press fit into the shell and non-removable -- making it
              necessary to replace the hub, or as a practical matter, the wheel --
              if the cup is pitted.

              Sturmey-Archer hubs are a major exception to this, still with
              thread-in right-hand bearing cups. The first version of the SA
              8-speed, however, had a cup which an expert mechanic was unable to
              remove. I don't know whether the left-hand bearing cup can still be
              pressed out.

              Water ingress be exacerbated by to temperature variation. Keeping a
              bicycle in a heated storage area, then taking it outdoors, sucks in
              air -- and with it, water, whether rainwater or moisture which later
              condenses inside -- as the air inside contracts (issue I first heard
              of from MTB pioneer Charlie Cunningham, via an article in Bicycle
              Quarterly). The larger the internal volume of the hub, the worse the problem.


              At 08:44 AM 10/27/2013, jbfiets@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >Water ingress is definitely a problem on the drive side. The factory
              >grease lasts about ~1 yr under conditions here (moderate rain-42
              >inches/yr, very little snow). The rims get bent so frequently (15%
              >of the fleet per year has the rear wheel replaced), that we have an
              >opportunity to regrease the hubs prior to rebuilding the wheels.
              >While the water is certainly a problem, it didn't seem worth noting
              >since anyone looking at the hub would note the pathetic seal and
              >individual replacement parts (bearings/cones) are available unlike
              >for the other two problems mentioned.
              >
              >---In geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
              >
              >I'm surprised (and pleased) that you haven't noticed any significant
              >rate of damage/failure due to moisture ingress with these hubs in
              >their factory lubed state the way some users of Shimano IGHs have
              >reported. What's your climate like? Perhaps it helps that these
              >rental bikes live outdoors all the time year round.
              >
              >
              >pj

              John S. Allen

              Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

              League Cycling Instructor #77-C

              jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
              http://bikexprt.com
              http://john-s-allen.com/blog
              http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
            • Zack B
              Which roller brakes are you using? Have you had any failures? How often do you overhaul them? ... -- -Zack
              Message 7 of 16 , Oct 29, 2013
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                Which roller brakes are you using?

                Have you had any failures?

                How often do you overhaul them?


                On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Jeff Bertolet <jbfiets@...> wrote:
                 
                [Attachment(s) from Jeff Bertolet included below]

                This is intended to point out the most likely failures of the Nexus 3R40 hubs and how to prevent or fix them. These failures are very rare and are due to poor installation/adjustment and user error. By no means are these hubs prone to failure, but in dealing with thousands of hubs ridden millions of miles, failures are bound to happen.


                The hubs on these particular bikes have an input ratio of 38/23 with 26x1.95 tires. At this low input ratio it is extremely important that the axle be greased and all nuts be installed at a sufficient torque to resist the axle turning in the dropouts. These hubs are shipped from the manufacturer with the cone locknuts insufficiently tight to resist these forces (as well as the axle ungreased). After many rides (sometimes taking as long as 9 months or 1500 rides, sometimes as few as 300 rides) the axle nuts loosen and the non-turn washer strips the threads on the axle, the bearing adjustment become too tight, damaging the nondrive side hub bearing race (see attached picture DSC02660) and rendering the axle and hub shell unusable. All other parts can be salvaged and used to repair hubs broken in other ways.


                In trying to isolate the cause of this, I greased the axle and installed the nuts to the proper torque, leaving the cone/locknuts untouched; they continued to fail. It became apparent that as the axle nuts loosened, it was possible to catch the failure before catastrophic failure to the axle and return the hub to a useable condition by readjusting the bearing preload and tightening the cone locknuts. There is so much thread engagement on the cones and locknuts there is very little danger of stripping them as would be the case on a normal hub or even the S-A hubs with only 3-4 threads engaged by the cone locknuts.


                There were a couple indications that the cone locknuts were insufficiently tight and failure was imminent: axle nuts loosening, roller brake locknut loose (could be turned with cone wrench on the bike without loosening axle nuts) and a mushy feeling at the pedals when applying pressure after a shift.


                In addition to the failures of hubs pre-installed on bikes, we also experienced similar failures of hubs we got from a wholesaler which were subsequently installed on the bikes. I haven't found any other reports of this happening with bikes available to the general public. Either the bike manufacturers are properly adjusting the hub prior to sale (which ours does not, and the purchaser of the bikes is not interested in having the mechanics invest the time necessary to prevent the problem during assembly), the mechanic at the bike shop is properly adjusting them prior to retail sale, the absence of the roller brake on most nexus equipped bikes sold in the US prevents the problem, or the input gearing is sufficiently high that the manufacturer's torque spec is sufficient to prevent the failure.


                The other failure that we see is probably due to user error by attempting to shift under load. Small parts of the driver start to break off (see attached picture DSC02661) and become lodged around the clutch preventing it from fully engaging certain gears (sometimes 3rd, sometimes 1st sometimes both). I haven't pinpointed the exact cause since it would appear that there should not be any contact between the piece that breaks and any other part of the hub internal cassette. If the problem is identified before the broken pieces cause further damage to the clutch, pawls, or springs, the internals can be cleaned and reassembled and the hub appears to function identically to an undamaged hub. 


                It's possible that the remaining pieces of the driver would be more likely to fail under adverse conditions in this rehabilitated, but it would seem preferable to damaging a recently installed new internal cassette. I'm not sure I would recommend it to regular users, but on our scale rehabilitating the damaged driver represents significant cost savings.




                --
                -Zack
              • askeigkdnbceodk
                We ve used almost all the available models of roller brakes (IM31, IM45, IM70, IM80, as well as others I can t find model numbers for). The IM41 is the OEM
                Message 8 of 16 , Oct 30, 2013
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                  We've used almost all the available models of roller brakes (IM31, IM45, IM70, IM80, as well as others I can't find model numbers for). The IM41 is the OEM brake and works well for flatter terrain, I would not recommend them for hilly areas or hauling heavy loads (children, lots of groceries, heavy riders). Most of the other roller brake models have a slightly larger drum with varying types of cooling fins and cable attachments being the primary differences. There are some slight differences in modulation, but I can't recall the specific model numbers.


                  We replace a LOT of brakes. The life cycle of a brake goes something like this: add small amount of grease (pea size amount) in addition to factory grease when installing new brake. After some months, the grease is washed away by rain. The brake is now dry and has poor or nonexistent modulation which locks the wheel with the slightest pressure on the lever. A normal consumer would regrease the brake immediately at this point, but our bikes can go a few weeks between being checked by staff. If it is being ridden dry for weeks, the drum and/or shoes are damaged beyond repair. Regreasing at this point can bring the brake modulation back to normal levels temporarily but the brake will lose all stopping power within a few weeks or months depending on how much it is ridden.


                  I personally use a roller brake (IM45) on my rear hub and have been satisfied. I think the nicer roller brakes are more powerful with as good of modulation as the newer 70mm Sturmey drums (I haven't tried the 90mm drums). There are some advantages to the Sturmey design, but I find it nice that I can easily find a drum brake that fits the terrain and weight on which it is used.

                  As I mentioned in a previous post, many of the more expensive roller brakes (nicer than the IM-41 model) seem to suffer from a lot of drag just by the tightness of the nut that secures them to the hub (the torque spec for this bolt is 15-20 Nm). The IM-41 did not seem to add any significant drag when installed. 

                  I haven't had my roller brake long enough to need to overhaul it and our fleet bikes' brakes don't last long enough to be overhauled.

                  ---In geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <zoombomber@...> wrote:

                  Which roller brakes are you using?

                  Have you had any failures?

                  How often do you overhaul them?

                  --
                  -Zack
                • Zack B
                  Are you using the Shimano Spec grease? Are you opening the brake up or just squirting grease into the hole? I suspect people are riding through the grease
                  Message 9 of 16 , Oct 30, 2013
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                    Are you using the Shimano Spec grease?

                    Are you opening the brake up or just squirting grease into the hole?

                    I suspect people are riding through the grease rather than having it wash out.

                    The grease that ANY shimano part comes with is merely a packing grease and should not be mistaken for proper lubrication.

                    I rode an IM-41 for almost a decade before replacing it with an IM-51 on my daily commuter which sees a LOT of rain (and is actually ridden through severe rain storms). I never had a problem with the brakes drying out, although I did set the grease on fire in the IM-41 a few times on long downhills. I only do a full overhaul about once a year.

                    Here is my method for lubricating them:

                    With the IM41 and the IM50 that have the flat brake shoes you can simply pry the brake apart with a screwdriver by separating the outer shell from the inner disc.


                    Remove the brake shoes and the spring clip, but leave the rollers and the
                    mechanism that holds them alone. Degrease the entire thing, and then spray it out with WD-40. Now coat every inside surface with Phil's tenacious and then pack the whole thing with high temp marine grease (go overboard), replace the shoes and spring clip and push the mechanism back together (this usually take some force).

                    This method works much better than simply adding new grease through the hole for two reasons: It removes the old dirty grease build up and it gets the grease into every nook and cranny. The Phil's acts as an emergency back up lubricant in case you run through the grease or set it on fire and it also seems to improve the all around performance of the brake.

                    With the later models that have angled brake shoes

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mydutchbike/5565962641/

                    it is a little more complicated:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNwmUNw70WI

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942448931/

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942449219/


                    Or you can be lazy and use an all-oil lubrication. You do this by simply removing all the grease and replacing it with phils, and then spraying the brake with WD-40 from time to time. The oil will drip out and make a nasty mess on carpet, but overall performance will improve and it is almost impossible to set the oil on fire.

                    --
                    -Zack
                  • aarons_bicycle_repair
                    You need a long grease gun to get all the way into the pad area. If you use a short grease nozzle like on the Dualco shorty then the grease will not get to
                    Message 10 of 16 , Oct 31, 2013
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                      You need a long grease gun to get all the way into the pad area.  If you use a short grease nozzle like on the Dualco shorty then the grease will not get to the shoes and will just pile up behind the dust shield. Finishline and Dualco both make long needles that fit in the hole.  The special Shimano grease tube also is designed to fit all the way in to the shoe/drum area. 



                      ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Are you using the Shimano Spec grease?

                      Are you opening the brake up or just squirting grease into the hole?

                      I suspect people are riding through the grease rather than having it wash out.

                      The grease that ANY shimano part comes with is merely a packing grease and should not be mistaken for proper lubrication.

                      I rode an IM-41 for almost a decade before replacing it with an IM-51 on my daily commuter which sees a LOT of rain (and is actually ridden through severe rain storms). I never had a problem with the brakes drying out, although I did set the grease on fire in the IM-41 a few times on long downhills. I only do a full overhaul about once a year.

                      Here is my method for lubricating them:

                      With the IM41 and the IM50 that have the flat brake shoes you can simply pry the brake apart with a screwdriver by separating the outer shell from the inner disc.


                      Remove the brake shoes and the spring clip, but leave the rollers and the
                      mechanism that holds them alone. Degrease the entire thing, and then spray it out with WD-40. Now coat every inside surface with Phil's tenacious and then pack the whole thing with high temp marine grease (go overboard), replace the shoes and spring clip and push the mechanism back together (this usually take some force).

                      This method works much better than simply adding new grease through the hole for two reasons: It removes the old dirty grease build up and it gets the grease into every nook and cranny. The Phil's acts as an emergency back up lubricant in case you run through the grease or set it on fire and it also seems to improve the all around performance of the brake.

                      With the later models that have angled brake shoes

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/mydutchbike/5565962641/

                      it is a little more complicated:

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNwmUNw70WI

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942448931/

                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942449219/


                      Or you can be lazy and use an all-oil lubrication. You do this by simply removing all the grease and replacing it with phils, and then spraying the brake with WD-40 from time to time. The oil will drip out and make a nasty mess on carpet, but overall performance will improve and it is almost impossible to set the oil on fire.

                      --
                      -Zack
                    • David Chase
                      It looked interesting, I thought it might be cost-effective to have an alternative to an Alfine for use with disk brakes, but I had one email exchange, then
                      Message 11 of 16 , Oct 31, 2013
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                        It looked interesting, I thought it might be cost-effective to have an alternative to an
                        Alfine for use with disk brakes, but I had one email exchange, then silence. Shipping
                        is pretty stiff; I was hoping to buy more than one and resell the extras locally to share
                        that cost.

                        But, after I brought this (and VAT refund) up, no reply.

                        David
                      • Sven-Olof Johansson
                        My experience with Cesur.de is more or less the same as yours. I ve made a few attempts to buy one of their adapters to use with my SRAM Automatix. At first I
                        Message 12 of 16 , Oct 31, 2013
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                          My experience with Cesur.de is more or less the same as yours.

                          I've made a few attempts to buy one of their adapters to use with my
                          SRAM Automatix.

                          At first I got a quick and positive response (“of course we'll ship to
                          Sweden”), but when I asked for instructions on how to place the order,
                          since their website refused to let me enter a shipping address outside
                          of Germany, I got no answer at all.

                          /s-o



                          > 31 okt 2013 kl. 21:11 skrev David Chase <dr2chase@...>:
                          >
                          > It looked interesting, I thought it might be cost-effective to have an alternative to an
                          > Alfine for use with disk brakes, but I had one email exchange, then silence. Shipping
                          > is pretty stiff; I was hoping to buy more than one and resell the extras locally to share
                          > that cost.
                          >
                          > But, after I brought this (and VAT refund) up, no reply.
                          >
                          > David
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • David Chase
                          Oh this is amusing, for a company that seems only willing to sell to German customers:
                          Message 13 of 16 , Oct 31, 2013
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                            Oh this is amusing, for a company that seems only willing to sell to German customers:

                            http://www.cesur.de/--Sonderposten--/Radlaufglocke-Tirebell-Sturmglocke-Sturmklingel-Bonanza-Klingel.html

                            "Sturmklingel"

                            "Nach dt. STVZO unzulässig"

                            David

                            On 2013-10-31, at 5:17 PM, Sven-Olof Johansson <svenolofj@...> wrote:

                            > My experience with Cesur.de is more or less the same as yours.
                            >>
                            >> But, after I brought this (and VAT refund) up, no reply.
                            >>
                          • askeigkdnbceodk
                            We use both the larger Shimano Roller Brake Grease tubes, as well as the Daulco guns with extra long tips attached. If we need to grease the rear brake while
                            Message 14 of 16 , Oct 31, 2013
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                               We use both the larger Shimano Roller Brake Grease tubes, as well as the Daulco guns with extra long tips attached. If we need to grease the rear brake while the wheel is installed, we bend the tip of the Shimano tube to get between the seatstay and the greaseport.


                              I have no doubt that these will last a long time for regular consumers, that's why I went through the trouble of building a wheel for my personal bike that uses a roller brake. But our maintenance practices and time allowances do not lend themselves to making these brakes last a long time.

                              The original post details an issue which is easily preventable, but we've been told it's not worth our time to eradicate the problem, we should just wait until it starts to fail, then try and save it. Our treatment of the roller brakes is similar.

                              Has anyone else noticed the added drag of some roller brake models? This is with only factory lube, so overlubing isn't a problem.

                              ---In geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <aaron@...> wrote:

                              You need a long grease gun to get all the way into the pad area.  If you use a short grease nozzle like on the Dualco shorty then the grease will not get to the shoes and will just pile up behind the dust shield. Finishline and Dualco both make long needles that fit in the hole.  The special Shimano grease tube also is designed to fit all the way in to the shoe/drum area. 



                              ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              Are you using the Shimano Spec grease?

                              Are you opening the brake up or just squirting grease into the hole?

                              I suspect people are riding through the grease rather than having it wash out.

                              The grease that ANY shimano part comes with is merely a packing grease and should not be mistaken for proper lubrication.

                              I rode an IM-41 for almost a decade before replacing it with an IM-51 on my daily commuter which sees a LOT of rain (and is actually ridden through severe rain storms). I never had a problem with the brakes drying out, although I did set the grease on fire in the IM-41 a few times on long downhills. I only do a full overhaul about once a year.

                              Here is my method for lubricating them:

                              With the IM41 and the IM50 that have the flat brake shoes you can simply pry the brake apart with a screwdriver by separating the outer shell from the inner disc.


                              Remove the brake shoes and the spring clip, but leave the rollers and the
                              mechanism that holds them alone. Degrease the entire thing, and then spray it out with WD-40. Now coat every inside surface with Phil's tenacious and then pack the whole thing with high temp marine grease (go overboard), replace the shoes and spring clip and push the mechanism back together (this usually take some force).

                              This method works much better than simply adding new grease through the hole for two reasons: It removes the old dirty grease build up and it gets the grease into every nook and cranny. The Phil's acts as an emergency back up lubricant in case you run through the grease or set it on fire and it also seems to improve the all around performance of the brake.

                              With the later models that have angled brake shoes

                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/mydutchbike/5565962641/

                              it is a little more complicated:

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNwmUNw70WI

                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942448931/

                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/6942449219/


                              Or you can be lazy and use an all-oil lubrication. You do this by simply removing all the grease and replacing it with phils, and then spraying the brake with WD-40 from time to time. The oil will drip out and make a nasty mess on carpet, but overall performance will improve and it is almost impossible to set the oil on fire.

                              --
                              -Zack
                            • aarons_bicycle_repair
                              I got one! I did not order direct. One of my customers got 2 and I traded him a wheel build labor for it. It works very well. I was disappointed that the
                              Message 15 of 16 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                I got one!  I did not order direct.  One of my customers got 2 and I traded him a wheel build labor for it.

                                It works very well.  I was disappointed that the interface is not tight.  You get the same knock like a roller brake!  Poor design in my opinion.  The ISO distance from the inside of the dropout to the inside of the disc rotor is 15.01mm.  This adapter has a locknut that is to thin.  I had to add an extra locknut on the outside of the adapter to get the disc rotor to align with the center of the capliper.  It was off by 5mm!

                                I think any good machine shop could make one.  I am working with my local bicycle oriented machine shop to make one.



                                ---In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Oh this is amusing, for a company that seems only willing to sell to German customers:

                                http://www.cesur.de/--Sonderposten--/Radlaufglocke-Tirebell-Sturmglocke-Sturmklingel-Bonanza-Klingel.html

                                "Sturmklingel"

                                "Nach dt. STVZO unzulässig"

                                David

                                On 2013-10-31, at 5:17 PM, Sven-Olof Johansson <svenolofj@...> wrote:

                                > My experience with Cesur.de is more or less the same as yours.
                                >>
                                >> But, after I brought this (and VAT refund) up, no reply.
                                >>
                              • David Chase
                                Thanks for the heads up about the alignment. I m going to see how things go through starbike.com, but it would be interesting to see how it comes out from a
                                Message 16 of 16 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                  Thanks for the heads up about the alignment. I'm going to see how things go through starbike.com, but it would be interesting to see how it comes out from a machine shop informed by their mistakes. I'm kinda interested in one of their Sturmklingels, and they have some really nice looking pedals (I'm hard on pedals).

                                  David

                                  On 2013-11-01, at 4:23 PM, aaron@... wrote:
                                  > I got one! I did not order direct. One of my customers got 2 and I traded him a wheel build labor for it.
                                  >
                                  > It works very well. I was disappointed that the interface is not tight. You get the same knock like a roller brake! Poor design in my opinion. The ISO distance from the inside of the dropout to the inside of the disc rotor is 15.01mm. This adapter has a locknut that is to thin. I had to add an extra locknut on the outside of the adapter to get the disc rotor to align with the center of the capliper. It was off by 5mm!
                                  >
                                  > I think any good machine shop could make one. I am working with my local bicycle oriented machine shop to make one.
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