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Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?

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  • hughckelley
    Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2013
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      Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

      http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

      Hugh
    • Rick Paulos
      Wow, lots of special parts to break or fall off, installed at the highest stress point in the rear end? Clearly for a custom build only or a major frame mod.
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 4, 2013
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        Wow, lots of special parts to break or fall off,
        installed at the highest stress point in the rear
        end? Clearly for a custom build only or a major frame mod.

        You could use a standard horizontal dropout (road
        or track) and a small S&S coupler mounted about
        2/3 up the seat stay at a low stress point to
        accomplish the same concept of gaping the frame
        so you can fit a belt. The S&S coupling could be
        fitted to many existing steel frames with a
        minimum of welding or brazing. The S&S come in
        sizes as small as 5/8" which is a common seat
        stay diameter. They claim just 67 grams of weight for that size installed.

        Eccentric bb shells are an option for frames with
        vertical dropouts for adjusting belt tension.

        I wonder if the White Industries ENO hub has a belt option yet.

        I've seen other seat stay gap bolt-on plates that are even simpler.

        Or go with a frame with elevated chain stays so
        the belt doesn't need to go through the frame.

        I've seen a number of belt drive bikes where the
        manufacturers insist on putting the gap at or
        near the dropout. Seems like doing it the hard way to me.

        Rick



        At 02:54 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >Does anybody have experience with these? Are
        >they available as components for a custom frame project?
        >
        >http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/
        >
        >Hugh
        >
        >
      • Alex Wetmore
        Civia made similar ones for one of their frames. They used to sell the component parts for framebuilders through QBP (and you could often find them on eBay).
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 4, 2013
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          Civia made similar ones for one of their frames. They used to sell the component parts for framebuilders through QBP (and you could often find them on eBay). I'm not sure if they are still available.

          Paragon sells a lot of options that I personally prefer, including the Rocker dropouts:
          http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DS1036

          alex
          ________________________________________
          From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of hughckelley [hugh.kelley@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:54 PM
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?

          Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

          http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

          Hugh



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • jmedclay
          Alex, How well, how reliably do the Bolted connections of the Paragon rockers hold up on a long term, daily use basis? They look like a neat solution but that
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 5, 2013
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             Alex, 

            How well, how reliably do the Bolted connections of the Paragon rockers hold up on a long term, daily use basis? They look like a neat solution but that connection, made by a couple of small bolts, gives me some concern.

            Thanks, 

            John



            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            Civia made similar ones for one of their frames. They used to sell the component parts for framebuilders through QBP (and you could often find them on eBay). I'm not sure if they are still available.

            Paragon sells a lot of options that I personally prefer, including the Rocker dropouts:
            http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DS1036

            alex
            ________________________________________
            From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of hughckelley [hugh.kelley@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:54 PM
            To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?

            Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

            http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

            Hugh



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Alex Wetmore
            They aren t small bolts, if I remember correctly they are 8mm bolts. I haven t used my Rocker dropouts yet, the frame that they are going onto has been in the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 5, 2013
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              They aren't small bolts, if I remember correctly they are 8mm bolts.

              I haven't used my Rocker dropouts yet, the frame that they are going onto has been in the half-built phase for a very long time.  I hope to finish it this winter.

              I've owned 2 other bikes with sliding dropouts and one other bike with pivoting/rocking dropouts and none have had slippage issues.

              The other option is an eccentric BB.  My touring bike and mountain bike (both Rohloff equipped) have EBBs and I like them a lot, but I am trying Rockers on my commuter frame so that I could build a lugged frame.

              alex


              From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of jmedclay@... [jmedclay@...]
              Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:37 AM
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: RE: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?



               Alex, 

              How well, how reliably do the Bolted connections of the Paragon rockers hold up on a long term, daily use basis? They look like a neat solution but that connection, made by a couple of small bolts, gives me some concern.

              Thanks, 

              John



              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Civia made similar ones for one of their frames. They used to sell the component parts for framebuilders through QBP (and you could often find them on eBay). I'm not sure if they are still available.

              Paragon sells a lot of options that I personally prefer, including the Rocker dropouts:
              http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DS1036

              alex
              ________________________________________
              From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of hughckelley [hugh.kelley@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:54 PM
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?

              Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

              http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

              Hugh



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links


            • jmedclay
              Somebody has been sailing! The rockers are clever. I think I ll contact Paragon to see who s been using them for hard service. Thanks, John --- In
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 7, 2013
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                Somebody has been sailing!

                The rockers are clever. I think I'll contact Paragon to see who's been using them for hard service.

                Thanks,

                John



                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                They aren't small bolts, if I remember correctly they are 8mm bolts.

                I haven't used my Rocker dropouts yet, the frame that they are going onto has been in the half-built phase for a very long time.  I hope to finish it this winter.

                I've owned 2 other bikes with sliding dropouts and one other bike with pivoting/rocking dropouts and none have had slippage issues.

                The other option is an eccentric BB.  My touring bike and mountain bike (both Rohloff equipped) have EBBs and I like them a lot, but I am trying Rockers on my commuter frame so that I could build a lugged frame.

                alex


                From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of jmedclay@... [jmedclay@...]
                Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:37 AM
                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: RE: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?



                 Alex, 

                How well, how reliably do the Bolted connections of the Paragon rockers hold up on a long term, daily use basis? They look like a neat solution but that connection, made by a couple of small bolts, gives me some concern.

                Thanks, 

                John



                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, <geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Civia made similar ones for one of their frames. They used to sell the component parts for framebuilders through QBP (and you could often find them on eBay). I'm not sure if they are still available.

                Paragon sells a lot of options that I personally prefer, including the Rocker dropouts:
                http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DS1036

                alex
                ________________________________________
                From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of hughckelley [hugh.kelley@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:54 PM
                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Speedhound Dropout System (SDS) - opinions and/or sources?

                Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

                http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

                Hugh



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links


              • Michael Wilson
                What is the advantage of adjusting the chain tension with a moving dropout, rather than the traditional track or 1970s road or Raleigh Sports style dropouts
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 8, 2013
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                  What is the advantage of adjusting the chain tension with a moving dropout, rather than the traditional track or 1970s road or Raleigh Sports style dropouts where the wheel is moved?

                  I understand why the Speedhound and the Paragon DS1050/DS1055 makes sense for belt drive.

                  I also understand that the older frames have clearance issues with the chain stays to some hub parts, like my Rohloff.  But when making a new frame that clearance could be obtained with the older style dropout just as easily as with the new styles.

                  I had thought of "converting" an old frame for belt drive by making a dropout plate similar in concept to the speedhound, and then cutting a slot in the dropout.  No idea how well that would work, but almost certainly better on a cheap frame with stamped dropouts than an expensive frame with forged dropouts.

                  Michael Wilson
                • Alex Wetmore
                  ... There are a few benefits: * Vertical dropouts work much better with metal fenders. * Don t have to tension the chain every time you fix a flat. * Works
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 8, 2013
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                    What is the advantage of adjusting the chain tension with a moving dropout, 
                    > rather than the traditional track or 1970s road or Raleigh Sports style dropouts 
                    > where the wheel is moved?

                    There are a few benefits:
                    * Vertical dropouts work much better with metal fenders.  
                    * Don't have to tension the chain every time you fix a flat.
                    * Works with disk brakes.
                    * Less likely to slip under high torque

                    I like EBBs a little better than adjustable dropouts.  They make fenders even better because the bridges can be equal distance from the hub axle.  You can't do that with adjustable dropouts, so you need to use spacers to get a good fender line.

                    The quick release Rohloff doesn't work very well on horizontal dropouts because the edges of the axle aren't serrated and it can't dig into the dropout.  Alfine hubs do better in this regard.

                    alex
                  • Mark Stonich
                    I know pretty much everyone involved in Speedhound. Want me to look into this for you? I don t know where the references to the Rocker and eccentric BBs came
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 8, 2013
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                      I know pretty much everyone involved in Speedhound.  Want me to look into this for you?

                      I don't know where the references to the Rocker and eccentric BBs came from. Different animals completely.  The Speedhound system allows the use of a belt, which the Rockers don't, and you can swap plates for derailleur or IGH.  And custom plates could easily be whipped up with a narrow slot and inward offset for a vintage Sturmey.

                      The same guys who CNC machine my cotter press bodies make the dropouts.  Or made? There was some talk of going off-shore when production got to a certain level.

                      On Sep 4, 2013, at 2:54 PM, hughckelley wrote:

                       

                      Does anybody have experience with these? Are they available as components for a custom frame project?

                      http://blog.speedhoundbikes.com/2011/11/15/speedhound-and-belt-drive/

                      Hugh

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