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trigger for the sturmey archer ASC hub

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  • john
    Does anyone know the correct trigger for the SA ASC three speed fixed hub. I wonder has anyone compared the new S3X compared with the ASC how simalar are they
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 25, 2013
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      Does anyone know the correct trigger for the SA ASC three speed fixed hub.

      I wonder has anyone compared the new S3X compared with the ASC how simalar are they internally

      Look forward for an answer.

      Regards John
    • Rick Paulos
      There is an excellent utoob video of the new S3X hub being dismantled with an explanation of how it works. Looks very sturdy inside. Give the rarity of the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 25, 2013
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        There is an excellent utoob video of the new S3X
        hub being dismantled with an explanation of how
        it works. Looks very sturdy inside.

        Give the rarity of the original, we would have to
        find one to examine. Those sell for $400 usd.

        R

        At 01:33 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >Does anyone know the correct trigger for the SA ASC three speed fixed hub.
        >
        >I wonder has anyone compared the new S3X
        >compared with the ASC how simalar are they internally
        >
        >Look forward for an answer.
        >
        >Regards John
        >
        >
      • David Bean
        My understanding is that the S3X is a totally new design. The ratios, amount of slop, etc, are all different. I would doubt there s a single part that s
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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          My understanding is that the S3X is a totally new design. The ratios, amount of slop, etc, are all different. I would doubt there’s a single part that’s interchangeable. It would be surprising if Sun Race had any old ASC tooling or parts to begin with when they decided to go ahead with the S3X.

           

          The ASC trigger is different from all the other triggers and can be more difficult to find than the hub itself. There are articles on the web that describe how to modify other triggers to operate an ASC.

           

          David Bean

          Arlington, MA USA

        • bikealfa
          The ASC trigger is harder to find than the ASC; not sure why. easiest way is to use a 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator in the hub; 2nd and 3rd on the
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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            The ASC trigger is harder to find than the ASC; not sure why.

            "easiest" way is to use a 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator in the hub; 2nd and 3rd on the trigger are the same gear. 2nd easiest way is to grind the 4 speed trigger so it does not stay in 3rd gear. If you are skilled a friction derailleur shifter is used by some, but I would not do it. I have seen but I forget where instructions for modifying an ordinary 3 speed shifter. Basically you need 2 shifts about the same length, so a shift pull converter pulley and any equal-shift shifter could work; no I have not tried that with the ASC but my T uses that. My ASC uses the 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator; I put that together around 1978.

            Internally the only similarity is that both are the bottom 3 gears of a related 5 speed (although when the ASC came out, the related hub was only a 4 speed; the 5 speed came later). And the cones interchange, and maybe you can swap right ball cups if you get creative ...


            Michael Wilson, in eastern MA.

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "john" <John.Burridge@...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone know the correct trigger for the SA ASC three speed fixed hub.
            >
            > I wonder has anyone compared the new S3X compared with the ASC how simalar are they internally
            >
            > Look forward for an answer.
            >
            > Regards John
            >
          • Hilary Stone
            ... You should continue to use the ASC indicator even if using a 4-speed trigger. If you use positions 4, 2 and 1 on the 4spd trigger and set the indicator up
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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              On 26/04/2013 13:40, bikealfa wrote:
              >
              > "easiest" way is to use a 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator in the
              > hub; 2nd and 3rd on the trigger are the same gear. 2nd easiest way is to
              > grind the 4 speed trigger so it does not stay in 3rd gear. If you are
              > skilled a friction derailleur shifter is used by some, but I would not
              > do it. I have seen but I forget where instructions for modifying an
              > ordinary 3 speed shifter. Basically you need 2 shifts about the same
              > length, so a shift pull converter pulley and any equal-shift shifter
              > could work; no I have not tried that with the ASC but my T uses that. My
              > ASC uses the 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator; I put that together
              > around 1978.

              You should continue to use the ASC indicator even if using a 4-speed
              trigger. If you use positions 4, 2 and 1 on the 4spd trigger and set the
              indicator up on 2nd gear as usual your gear will work perfectly.
              >
              > Internally the only similarity is that both are the bottom 3 gears of a
              > related 5 speed (although when the ASC came out, the related hub was
              > only a 4 speed; the 5 speed came later). And the cones interchange, and
              > maybe you can swap right ball cups if you get creative ...

              This is not true – the only unique parts to the ASC are the LH
              pressed-in ball cup, the gear ring and planet pinions cage and
              indicator. All the other parts are shared with other Sturmey hubs. The
              planet pinions are AW, the low gear pinions and cage, low gear clutch,
              spring set, and the axle are same as used in the AC, FC and FM hubs. The
              main clutch is the same as used in all A and F series Sturmeys.

              The three ratios of the ASC are the same as the bottom three ratios of
              an FC (4spd close ratio) gear.



              Hilary Stone, Cwm, Ebbw Vale, British Isles

              www.Hilarystone.com
              Period bicycle frames & parts
            • Mark Stonich
              Has anyone compared the gear to gear cable pulls of the ASC and the S3X? They don t look at all vintage , for those who care about such things, but the S3X
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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                Has anyone compared the gear to gear cable pulls of the ASC and the S3X?

                They don't look at all "vintage", for those who care about such things, but the S3X shifters work quite nicely.

                Sent from my iPad (As if that's still supposed to impress anyone :-)

                Mark Stonich Bikesmith Design
                612-824-2372
                5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis MN 55417
                www.bikesmithdesign.com

                On Apr 26, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Hilary Stone <Hilary.stone@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > On 26/04/2013 13:40, bikealfa wrote:
                >>
                >> "easiest" way is to use a 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator in the
                >> hub; 2nd and 3rd on the trigger are the same gear. 2nd easiest way is to
                >> grind the 4 speed trigger so it does not stay in 3rd gear. If you are
                >> skilled a friction derailleur shifter is used by some, but I would not
                >> do it. I have seen but I forget where instructions for modifying an
                >> ordinary 3 speed shifter. Basically you need 2 shifts about the same
                >> length, so a shift pull converter pulley and any equal-shift shifter
                >> could work; no I have not tried that with the ASC but my T uses that. My
                >> ASC uses the 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator; I put that together
                >> around 1978.
                >
                > You should continue to use the ASC indicator even if using a 4-speed
                > trigger. If you use positions 4, 2 and 1 on the 4spd trigger and set the
                > indicator up on 2nd gear as usual your gear will work perfectly.
                >>
                >> Internally the only similarity is that both are the bottom 3 gears of a
                >> related 5 speed (although when the ASC came out, the related hub was
                >> only a 4 speed; the 5 speed came later). And the cones interchange, and
                >> maybe you can swap right ball cups if you get creative ...
                >
                > This is not true – the only unique parts to the ASC are the LH
                > pressed-in ball cup, the gear ring and planet pinions cage and
                > indicator. All the other parts are shared with other Sturmey hubs. The
                > planet pinions are AW, the low gear pinions and cage, low gear clutch,
                > spring set, and the axle are same as used in the AC, FC and FM hubs. The
                > main clutch is the same as used in all A and F series Sturmeys.
                >
                > The three ratios of the ASC are the same as the bottom three ratios of
                > an FC (4spd close ratio) gear.
                >
                >
                >
                > Hilary Stone, Cwm, Ebbw Vale, British Isles
                >
                > www.Hilarystone.com
                > Period bicycle frames & parts
                >
                >
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                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • aarons_bicycle_repair
                the modern SA shifters have not ID markings. You have to look at the pictures and compare or get one new in a package. The 3 speed fixed hub is dangerous to
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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                  the modern SA shifters have not ID markings.
                  You have to look at the pictures and compare or get one new in a package.

                  The 3 speed fixed hub is dangerous to use. It can enter a freewheel mode between gears. The shifter is not precise. You may find yourself with your gonads on the top tube when you need to be moving like entering an intersection.

                  We tested the "proto-type" and found it very unsatisfactory. The production version does not seem to be any different.

                  We recommend the use of 2 rim brakes. Do not use it brakeless!


                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "john" <John.Burridge@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Does anyone know the correct trigger for the SA ASC three speed fixed hub.
                  >
                  > I wonder has anyone compared the new S3X compared with the ASC how simalar are they internally
                  >
                  > Look forward for an answer.
                  >
                  > Regards John
                  >
                • Michael Wilson
                  I did not like my ASC with the 4 speed trigger and the ASC indicator. I did that for a while initially. The 3rd gear position of the trigger felt like it was
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 26, 2013
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                    I did not like my ASC with the 4 speed trigger and the ASC indicator.  I did that for a while initially.  The 3rd gear position of the trigger felt like it was almost but not guaranteed to be a neutral, and I never have been a precise enough shifter to keep out of a particular gear shifter position, and I was a hard rider who wanted to be able to pound the pedals without breaking anything.  And I still want to do that, despite not being anywhere near as strong as I was.

                    As to the comparison - I was comparing the ASC to the S3X (as the original questioner asked), which as I say share almost no components, not the ASC to the FC, which as you say share almost all components.

                    Michael Wilson




                    On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@...> wrote:


                    On 26/04/2013 13:40, bikealfa wrote:

                    "easiest" way is to use a 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator in the
                    hub; 2nd and 3rd on the trigger are the same gear. 2nd easiest way is to
                    grind the 4 speed trigger so it does not stay in 3rd gear. If you are
                    skilled a friction derailleur shifter is used by some, but I would not
                    do it. I have seen but I forget where instructions for modifying an
                    ordinary 3 speed shifter. Basically you need 2 shifts about the same
                    length, so a shift pull converter pulley and any equal-shift shifter
                    could work; no I have not tried that with the ASC but my T uses that. My
                    ASC uses the 4 speed trigger and 4 speed indicator; I put that together
                    around 1978.

                    You should continue to use the ASC indicator even if using a 4-speed trigger. If you use positions 4, 2 and 1 on the 4spd trigger and set the indicator up on 2nd gear as usual your gear will work perfectly.

                    Internally the only similarity is that both are the bottom 3 gears of a
                    related 5 speed (although when the ASC came out, the related hub was
                    only a 4 speed; the 5 speed came later). And the cones interchange, and
                    maybe you can swap right ball cups if you get creative ...

                    This is not true – the only unique parts to the ASC are the LH pressed-in ball cup, the gear ring and planet pinions cage and indicator. All the other parts are shared with other Sturmey hubs. The planet pinions are AW, the low gear pinions and cage, low gear clutch, spring set, and the axle are same as used in the AC, FC and FM hubs. The main clutch is the same as used in all A and F series Sturmeys.

                    The three ratios of the ASC are the same as the bottom three ratios of an FC (4spd close ratio) gear.



                    Hilary Stone, Cwm, Ebbw Vale, British Isles

                    www.Hilarystone.com
                    Period bicycle frames & parts








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