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Sturmey Archer 5 speed, how it works.

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  • Dan Burkhart
    Here s the next installment in the How it works series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 19, 2013
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      Here's the next installment in the "How it works" series.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
    • pj
      Dan, Another well done, professional quality video! The ball locking shift design has been used several times in motorcycle transmissions, most notably in
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 21, 2013
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        Dan,

        Another well done, professional quality video!

        The 'ball locking' shift design has been used several times in motorcycle transmissions, most notably in Honda's top level Moto GP road racing bikes:

        <http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/04/06/honda's-secret-motogp-transmission-racing/>

        I ~surmise~ that SunRace Sturmey-Archer moved away from Nottingham's Summit design and back to the sliding key design of the earlier Sprinter because of the traditional problem with ball locking transmissions: high loads on small parts. [There's a possibility that they changed for the (W) series solely because of manufacturing cost issues, though.] With a larger diameter center axle section allowing for bigger locking balls, I don't see why this wouldn't be an outstanding design for poly-speed IGHs.

        Perhaps when any and all patents run out in a few more years, Shimano will further advance this design. : )

        pj
      • Dan Burkhart
        Thank you for the feedback. My sense is that they reverted to the sliding key to better work with the new design which incorporates the planetary and sun gears
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 21, 2013
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          Thank you for the feedback.
          My sense is that they reverted to the sliding key to better work with the new design which incorporates the planetary and sun gears in a complete sub assembly. That's just my take on it, they probably could have made the ball lock system work with that too, but some engineer somewhere decided a sliding key was better. Who am I to argue? I'm not an engineer.
          My next project in the near future will be a video showing the re-design of the wide range model.
          I'll post it here when completed.
          Dan

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dan,
          >
          > Another well done, professional quality video!
          >
          > The 'ball locking' shift design has been used several times in motorcycle transmissions, most notably in Honda's top level Moto GP road racing bikes:
          >
          > <http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/04/06/honda's-secret-motogp-transmission-racing/>
          >
          > I ~surmise~ that SunRace Sturmey-Archer moved away from Nottingham's Summit design and back to the sliding key design of the earlier Sprinter because of the traditional problem with ball locking transmissions: high loads on small parts. [There's a possibility that they changed for the (W) series solely because of manufacturing cost issues, though.] With a larger diameter center axle section allowing for bigger locking balls, I don't see why this wouldn't be an outstanding design for poly-speed IGHs.
          >
          > Perhaps when any and all patents run out in a few more years, Shimano will further advance this design. : )
          >
          > pj
          >
        • jpbabic
          It is my understanding that there were problems with the ball locking design, that the sun gears would over-run the balls. Sheldon Brown has covered this on
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 22, 2013
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            It is my understanding that there were problems with the ball locking design, that the sun gears would over-run the balls. Sheldon Brown has covered this on his website:

            http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer_5-spd.html

            The ball locking design is discussed under the five speed section and more in the seven speed section. The seven speed is noted for the problem.


            And Thanks for another great video, Dan. I'm looking forward to your video on the current production five speed hub. Funny, I don't know what comments I can offer on your videos because I think you cover the material so well.

            Cheers.

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you for the feedback.
            > My sense is that they reverted to the sliding key to better work with the new design which incorporates the planetary and sun gears in a complete sub assembly. That's just my take on it, they probably could have made the ball lock system work with that too, but some engineer somewhere decided a sliding key was better. Who am I to argue? I'm not an engineer.
            > My next project in the near future will be a video showing the re-design of the wide range model.
            > I'll post it here when completed.
            > Dan
            >
            > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dan,
            > >
            > > Another well done, professional quality video!
            > >
            > > The 'ball locking' shift design has been used several times in motorcycle transmissions, most notably in Honda's top level Moto GP road racing bikes:
            > >
            > > <http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/04/06/honda's-secret-motogp-transmission-racing/>
            > >
            > > I ~surmise~ that SunRace Sturmey-Archer moved away from Nottingham's Summit design and back to the sliding key design of the earlier Sprinter because of the traditional problem with ball locking transmissions: high loads on small parts. [There's a possibility that they changed for the (W) series solely because of manufacturing cost issues, though.] With a larger diameter center axle section allowing for bigger locking balls, I don't see why this wouldn't be an outstanding design for poly-speed IGHs.
            > >
            > > Perhaps when any and all patents run out in a few more years, Shimano will further advance this design. : )
            > >
            > > pj
            > >
            >
          • pj
            ... Where it says of Sturmey s 4-, 5- and 7-speed hubs: These hubs, or at least most of them, have a neutral position when shifting the sun gears.. That
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 22, 2013
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              > ... Sheldon Brown has covered this on his website:
              >
              > http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer_5-spd.html

              Where it says of Sturmey's 4-, 5- and 7-speed hubs:
              "These hubs, or at least most of them, have a "neutral" position when shifting the sun gears.."

              That was a fair statement when the late Mr. Brown originally wrote it in the mid-1990s, but some seventeen odd years on is out-of date and misleading. The fives have all been NIG from 1991, and both the Sprinter and Summit sevens were. - pj
            • Dan Burkhart
              The NIG has to do with the driver re-design which only impacts on the parts coupled or de-coupled by the clutch, namely the ring gear and the planet carrier.
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 22, 2013
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                The NIG has to do with the driver re-design which only impacts on the parts coupled or de-coupled by the clutch, namely the ring gear and the planet carrier. The NIG has nothing to do with the coupling of the sun gears.

                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                >
                > > ... Sheldon Brown has covered this on his website:
                > >
                > > http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer_5-spd.html
                >
                > Where it says of Sturmey's 4-, 5- and 7-speed hubs:
                > "These hubs, or at least most of them, have a "neutral" position when shifting the sun gears.."
                >
                > That was a fair statement when the late Mr. Brown originally wrote it in the mid-1990s, but some seventeen odd years on is out-of date and misleading. The fives have all been NIG from 1991, and both the Sprinter and Summit sevens were. - pj
                >
              • Dan Burkhart
                I have read about issues like that, but never experienced any such problems myself. I ve been riding one for about 7 years with no issues. I weigh somewhere in
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 22, 2013
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                  I have read about issues like that, but never experienced any such problems myself. I've been riding one for about 7 years with no issues. I weigh somewhere in the 250 range, and I don't baby it. I've used it to pull a cargo trailer,with some pretty good loads too.
                  I sold and installed a few for customers before I closed my shop, and never an issue.
                  I think Aaron has related some problems he's seen with them, but there are some pretty serious hills in his town, so maybe that has something to do with it.

                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "jpbabic" <jbabic@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It is my understanding that there were problems with the ball locking design, that the sun gears would over-run the balls. Sheldon Brown has covered this on his website:
                  >
                  > http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer_5-spd.html
                  >
                  > The ball locking design is discussed under the five speed section and more in the seven speed section. The seven speed is noted for the problem.
                  >
                  >
                  > And Thanks for another great video, Dan. I'm looking forward to your video on the current production five speed hub. Funny, I don't know what comments I can offer on your videos because I think you cover the material so well.
                  >
                  > Cheers.
                  >
                  > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thank you for the feedback.
                  > > My sense is that they reverted to the sliding key to better work with the new design which incorporates the planetary and sun gears in a complete sub assembly. That's just my take on it, they probably could have made the ball lock system work with that too, but some engineer somewhere decided a sliding key was better. Who am I to argue? I'm not an engineer.
                  > > My next project in the near future will be a video showing the re-design of the wide range model.
                  > > I'll post it here when completed.
                  > > Dan
                  > >
                  > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Dan,
                  > > >
                  > > > Another well done, professional quality video!
                  > > >
                  > > > The 'ball locking' shift design has been used several times in motorcycle transmissions, most notably in Honda's top level Moto GP road racing bikes:
                  > > >
                  > > > <http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/04/06/honda's-secret-motogp-transmission-racing/>
                  > > >
                  > > > I ~surmise~ that SunRace Sturmey-Archer moved away from Nottingham's Summit design and back to the sliding key design of the earlier Sprinter because of the traditional problem with ball locking transmissions: high loads on small parts. [There's a possibility that they changed for the (W) series solely because of manufacturing cost issues, though.] With a larger diameter center axle section allowing for bigger locking balls, I don't see why this wouldn't be an outstanding design for poly-speed IGHs.
                  > > >
                  > > > Perhaps when any and all patents run out in a few more years, Shimano will further advance this design. : )
                  > > >
                  > > > pj
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • aarons_bicycle_repair
                  In the older English ball locking hubs, I see the sun gears fracture. In the Taiwan version the sliding rod inside the axle gets damaged (dented or
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 23, 2013
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                    In the older English ball locking hubs, I see the sun gears fracture.
                    In the Taiwan version the sliding rod inside the axle gets damaged (dented or brinnelled)as does the inside of the sun gears.
                    Just one of the many reasons we don't recommend folks stand up on the pedals.
                    Taiwan needs to harden their parts better. The sliding keys on the 5(w) hubs are just too soft. 5 speeds are great, I just wish they could come up with a design that is durable!

                    SRAM Spectro 7 and Pentasport 5 speed hubs have the best, by far sun gear engagement of any hub in this class. And if the key fails, it does not damage any of the rest of the hub and the hub defaults to normal middle 1:1 gear. Great design, durable, 4 different versions for all your braking needs and reasonably priced. So they discontinued it!

                    I am very interested in seeing the new G8. Too bad it does not come in a drum version.



                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have read about issues like that, but never experienced any such problems myself. I've been riding one for about 7 years with no issues. I weigh somewhere in the 250 range, and I don't baby it. I've used it to pull a cargo trailer,with some pretty good loads too.
                    > I sold and installed a few for customers before I closed my shop, and never an issue.
                    > I think Aaron has related some problems he's seen with them, but there are some pretty serious hills in his town, so maybe that has something to do with it.
                    >
                  • pj
                    ... Yes, okay, but that interpretation of what Mr. Brown meant raises two subsequent questions: 1) Which of Sturmey s 4-, 5- or 7-speed hubs have over-run
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 23, 2013
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                      > The NIG has to do with the driver re-design which only
                      > impacts on the parts coupled or de-coupled by the clutch,
                      > namely the ring gear and the planet carrier. The NIG has
                      > nothing to do with the coupling of the sun gears.

                      Yes, okay, but that interpretation of what Mr. Brown meant raises two subsequent questions:

                      1) Which of Sturmey's 4-, 5- or 7-speed hubs have over-run clutchs on the sun gears and allow simultaneous lock up with no neutral between, since he said only that 'most' of them have a neutral.

                      2) Why did he single Sturmey's hubs out for this, since surely other manufacturers' poly-speed hubs operate the same way?

                      pj
                    • Zack B
                      On Mar 23, 2013 12:42 PM, aarons_bicycle_repair ... drum version. Has anyone seen anything to indicate there will be any non-coaster
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 23, 2013
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                        On Mar 23, 2013 12:42 PM, "aarons_bicycle_repair" <aaron@...> wrote:
                        >I am very interested in seeing the new G8. Too bad it does not come in a drum version.

                        Has anyone seen anything to indicate there will be any non-coaster brake versions of the g-8?

                      • pj
                        ... Sure. I ve even posted links here to photos of upcoming 2013 OEM bikes with G8 discs. pj
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 23, 2013
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                          > Has anyone seen anything to indicate there will be any non-coaster brake
                          > versions of the g-8?

                          Sure. I've even posted links here to photos of upcoming 2013 OEM bikes with G8 discs. pj
                        • Dan Burkhart
                          5 speeds with 250ish% range is ideal for so many applications. If they could just make it totally bomb proof, maybe we could convince more people that they
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 26, 2013
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                            5 speeds with 250ish% range is ideal for so many applications. If they could just make it totally bomb proof, maybe we could convince more people that they really don't need 27 gears.
                            I wonder how many sun gears have been fractured when some curious sort tore the hub down just to see how it works, and re-assembled it without knowing about the critical step of aligning the timing marks.
                            Not a slam against curious people,that's how you learn things. Just that this is one of those things you don't want to learn the hard (expensive) way.

                            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "aarons_bicycle_repair" <aaron@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > In the older English ball locking hubs, I see the sun gears fracture.
                            > In the Taiwan version the sliding rod inside the axle gets damaged (dented or brinnelled)as does the inside of the sun gears.
                            > Just one of the many reasons we don't recommend folks stand up on the pedals.
                            > Taiwan needs to harden their parts better. The sliding keys on the 5(w) hubs are just too soft. 5 speeds are great, I just wish they could come up with a design that is durable!
                            >
                            > SRAM Spectro 7 and Pentasport 5 speed hubs have the best, by far sun gear engagement of any hub in this class. And if the key fails, it does not damage any of the rest of the hub and the hub defaults to normal middle 1:1 gear. Great design, durable, 4 different versions for all your braking needs and reasonably priced. So they discontinued it!
                            >
                            > I am very interested in seeing the new G8. Too bad it does not come in a drum version.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I have read about issues like that, but never experienced any such problems myself. I've been riding one for about 7 years with no issues. I weigh somewhere in the 250 range, and I don't baby it. I've used it to pull a cargo trailer,with some pretty good loads too.
                            > > I sold and installed a few for customers before I closed my shop, and never an issue.
                            > > I think Aaron has related some problems he's seen with them, but there are some pretty serious hills in his town, so maybe that has something to do with it.
                            > >
                            >
                          • pj
                            ... I don t own one nor have I ever inspected one, but I ve read on the net (and as we all know, if you see it on the internet, it must be true!) that the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 26, 2013
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                              > I wonder how many sun gears have been fractured when
                              > some curious sort tore the hub down just to see how it works,
                              > and re-assembled it without knowing about the critical step
                              > of aligning the timing marks.

                              I don't own one nor have I ever inspected one, but I've read on the 'net (and as we all know, if you see it on the internet, it must be true!) that the HSA675 Planet Cage, Pinion and Sun Gear Assembly in the S-A 5(W) hubs is not intended to be disassembled and there are NO timing marks on the planets. If that's true, and one has an irresistible urge to strip down their HSA675, perhaps the planets should be marked before disassembly!

                              Otherwise, I see the HSA675 is available as an individual spare part.

                              pj
                            • Dan Burkhart
                              There is another way to set the timing without the marks. If you look closely, you will see that the timing marks correspond with the position where each of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 26, 2013
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                                There is another way to set the timing without the marks. If you look closely, you will see that the timing marks correspond with the position where each of the planet pinions has a tooth aligned with it's ajacent partner. This is the point where each planet shaft must return to simultaneously each revoulution.
                                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > I wonder how many sun gears have been fractured when
                                > > some curious sort tore the hub down just to see how it works,
                                > > and re-assembled it without knowing about the critical step
                                > > of aligning the timing marks.
                                >
                                > I don't own one nor have I ever inspected one, but I've read on the 'net (and as we all know, if you see it on the internet, it must be true!) that the HSA675 Planet Cage, Pinion and Sun Gear Assembly in the S-A 5(W) hubs is not intended to be disassembled and there are NO timing marks on the planets. If that's true, and one has an irresistible urge to strip down their HSA675, perhaps the planets should be marked before disassembly!
                                >
                                > Otherwise, I see the HSA675 is available as an individual spare part.
                                >
                                > pj
                                >
                              • jpbabic
                                I confess that I am having trouble following you here. Could you explain this another way? ... closely, you will see that the timing marks correspond with the
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 27, 2013
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                                  I confess that I am having trouble following you here.  Could you explain this another way?
                                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@...> wrote:
                                  > There is another way to set the timing without the marks. If you look closely, you will see that the timing marks correspond with the position where each of the planet pinions has a tooth aligned with it's ajacent partner. This is the point where each planet shaft must return to simultaneously each revoulution.
                                • Dan Burkhart
                                  Is it the concept you re having trouble with or my attempt at explaining it? The concept is one I was first introduced to many years ago when I took service
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 28, 2013
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                                    Is it the concept you're having trouble with or my attempt at explaining it?
                                    The concept is one I was first introduced to many years ago when I took service training on heavy truck transmissions. These units have twin or triple countershafts and the same timing requirements as stepped planetaries.
                                    The best I can explain it is the way I remember it explained all those years ago.
                                    When stepped multiple countershafts are in mesh with gears of varying size, there must be a common return point. If you took a countershaft and looked down the shaft at the timing marks, you would see a line where one tooth on each gear is aligned with a tooth on the next gear, all in line with the timing mark.These aligned teeth on each shaft must return to the mainshaft gear in unison or the mainshaft (sun) gears will try to climb out of equalibrium. This will result in failure, after how long depends on how much out of phase they are.
                                    Sorry if my phrasing is hard to follow. Maybe there is someone that can explain it better.
                                    Meanwhile, I did do a video on this a while back.
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9A8XWPzwVg

                                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "jpbabic" <jbabic@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I confess that I am having trouble following you here. Could you
                                    > explain this another way?
                                    >
                                  • jpbabic
                                    ... explaining it? Both?? ... The video explained it very well. I think I stumbled on the term adjacent in your post numbered 8387, where I could not
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                      > Is it the concept you're having trouble with or my attempt at
                                      explaining it?
                                      Both??


                                      > Meanwhile, I did do a video on this a while back.
                                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9A8XWPzwVg
                                      The video explained it very well.

                                      I think I stumbled on the term 'adjacent' in your post numbered 8387,
                                      where I could not conclude if you meant planet pinions that share the
                                      same shaft, or it's neighbor one shaft over. In some sense, I suppose
                                      the term could apply to both meanings, no?

                                      I have no doubt there are better ways to describe the concept of timing
                                      these gears. I very often struggle with wording these sorts of things,
                                      and of course I don't know the technical language, though I'm learning
                                      it some here and from reading Jobst Brandt on his experiences with SA
                                      hub gears. Here's some links to what I've been reading - and more:

                                      http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/index.html
                                      http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sturmey-archer.html
                                      http://yarchive.net/bike/sturmey_archer_hubs.html

                                      Short of writing a chapter on planetary gear timing, your video does
                                      nicely. Thanks for another great video.
                                    • Dan Burkhart
                                      That was some interesting reading, thanks. I think I did read that some time in the past. It has more to do with the issues adressed by the NIG re-design
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                        That was some interesting reading, thanks. I think I did read that some time in the past.
                                        It has more to do with the issues adressed by the NIG re-design though. I was always under the impression that the false neutral had more to do with faulty shifter adjustment than clutches slipping off the drive pins, but Jobst makes some good points.

                                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "jpbabic" <jbabic@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Is it the concept you're having trouble with or my attempt at
                                        > explaining it?
                                        > Both??
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Meanwhile, I did do a video on this a while back.
                                        > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9A8XWPzwVg
                                        > The video explained it very well.
                                        >
                                        > I think I stumbled on the term 'adjacent' in your post numbered 8387,
                                        > where I could not conclude if you meant planet pinions that share the
                                        > same shaft, or it's neighbor one shaft over. In some sense, I suppose
                                        > the term could apply to both meanings, no?
                                        >
                                        > I have no doubt there are better ways to describe the concept of timing
                                        > these gears. I very often struggle with wording these sorts of things,
                                        > and of course I don't know the technical language, though I'm learning
                                        > it some here and from reading Jobst Brandt on his experiences with SA
                                        > hub gears. Here's some links to what I've been reading - and more:
                                        >
                                        > http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/index.html
                                        > http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sturmey-archer.html
                                        > http://yarchive.net/bike/sturmey_archer_hubs.html
                                        >
                                        > Short of writing a chapter on planetary gear timing, your video does
                                        > nicely. Thanks for another great video.
                                        >
                                      • jpbabic
                                        Hey, Dan - are you open to requests on your instructional videos? Would you please present a list of tools required on your videos? I am gathering the tools I
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                          Hey, Dan - are you open to requests on your instructional videos?

                                          Would you please present a list of tools required on your videos? I am
                                          gathering the tools I think I'll need in advance.

                                          I own a Mercier Kilo WT5 from BikesDirect, which has the Sturmey Archer
                                          five speed wide range hub. I'd like to see how the S-RF5(W) is holding
                                          up. Using your videos as a guide I intend to open it up for cleaning
                                          and inspection.

                                          I was able to get a Sturmey Archer HTR 130 C spanner wrench for the ball
                                          ring removal. I think the other specialty tool needed for this would be
                                          a cone wrench, but am unsure what size. I think the current production
                                          S-RF5(W) uses a 16mm cone wrench. Suppose you could confirm this?

                                          Muchos gracias, senior.


                                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Here's the next installment in the "How it works" series.
                                          >
                                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
                                          >
                                        • Dan Burkhart
                                          Sorry for the delay. Haven t checked in here for a bit. You are correct, the cone wrench required is a 16mm.
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 2 9:36 AM
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                                            Sorry for the delay. Haven't checked in here for a bit.
                                            You are correct, the cone wrench required is a 16mm.

                                            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "jpbabic" <jbabic@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hey, Dan - are you open to requests on your instructional videos?
                                            >
                                            > Would you please present a list of tools required on your videos? I am
                                            > gathering the tools I think I'll need in advance.
                                            >
                                            > I own a Mercier Kilo WT5 from BikesDirect, which has the Sturmey Archer
                                            > five speed wide range hub. I'd like to see how the S-RF5(W) is holding
                                            > up. Using your videos as a guide I intend to open it up for cleaning
                                            > and inspection.
                                            >
                                            > I was able to get a Sturmey Archer HTR 130 C spanner wrench for the ball
                                            > ring removal. I think the other specialty tool needed for this would be
                                            > a cone wrench, but am unsure what size. I think the current production
                                            > S-RF5(W) uses a 16mm cone wrench. Suppose you could confirm this?
                                            >
                                            > Muchos gracias, senior.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Here's the next installment in the "How it works" series.
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • jpbabic
                                            ... It appears that to disassemble it would be to destroy it. From what I can tell the cage is held together by what I can best describe as rivets, or pins
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 26 2:32 PM
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                                              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:

                                              >...the HSA675 Planet Cage, Pinion and Sun Gear Assembly in the S-A 5(W) hubs is not intended to be disassembled...

                                              It appears that to disassemble it would be to destroy it. From what I can tell the cage is held together by what I can best describe as rivets, or pins that are mashed to hold the end-plates in position.

                                              ... and there are NO timing marks on the planets.

                                              The planet gears are marked on mine, and they are marked according to Dan's advice about tooth alignment.
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