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Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

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  • bikealfa
    So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they. The simplicity of the bike is one of the reasons I like the coaster brake IGH.
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 7, 2013
      So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they.

      The simplicity of the bike is one of the reasons I like the coaster brake IGH. 2 cables, a front brake and a shifter.


      Michael Wilson

      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
      >
      > The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd.
      >
      > They don't like brifters and won't buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers and shifters.
      >
      > This unnecessarily complicates switching between a single speed wheel and an IGH one, and limits brake choices.
      >
      > They also won't buy anything that looks remotely like "comfort bike".
      >
      > "Comfort bike" is like kryptonite to the fixie crowd.
      >
      >
      > -Sven
      >
    • Colin Bryant
      Flavour of the month may not be what Shimano executives see in their business model.   -- Colin Bryant Vancouver, Canada   ________________________________
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 7, 2013
        "Flavour of the month" may not be what Shimano executives see in their business model.
         
        --

        Colin Bryant
        Vancouver, Canada

         


        From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 3:04:46 PM
        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

         
        The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd.

        They don't like brifters and won't buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers and shifters.

        This unnecessarily complicates switching between a single speed wheel and an IGH one, and limits brake choices.

        They also won't buy anything that looks remotely like "comfort bike".

        "Comfort bike" is like kryptonite to the fixie crowd.

        -Sven

        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: bikealfa
        > Sent: 01/06/13 07:14 AM
        > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        >
        > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
        >
        > Michael Wilson
        >
        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
        > >
        > > -Sven
        > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: Colin Bryant
        > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
        > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        > > >
        > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
        > > >
        > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
        > > >  
        > > > --
        > > >
        > > > Colin Bryant
        > > > Vancouver, Canada
        > > >  
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > >  From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
        > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        > > >  
        > > >
        > > >  
        > > > And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....
        > > >
        > > > -Sven
        > > >
        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > > From: Colin Bryant
        > > > > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
        > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        > > > >
        > > > > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
        > > > >  
        > > > > --
        > > > >
        > > > > Colin Bryant
        > > > > Vancouver, Canada
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ________________________________
        > > > >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
        > > > > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.comGeared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
        > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > >  
        > > > > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
        > > > >
        > > > > ________________________________
        > > > >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
        > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
        > > > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > >  
        > > > > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
        > > > >
        > > > > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
        > > > >
        > > > > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
        > > > >
        > > > > pj
        > >


      • Colin Bryant
        I m not likely to return to deraulers, except on a recreational bike (a fantasy).  Too much maintenance. I ride a recumbent, so steep hill climbing is a bit
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 7, 2013
          I'm not likely to return to deraulers, except on a recreational bike (a fantasy).  Too much maintenance.

          I ride a recumbent, so steep hill climbing is a bit slower and top speeds are higher.  The overall gear range of my Alfine 11 is less that 3 x 6/8/9 bikes that I've had, but it is what I need to cover me from crawling the steepest hills that I encounter, to 45+ kmh before I'm spinning 100rpm, and the larger IGH steps are about right .  I was quite happy with the Alfine 8, on my two previous conventional bikes.
           
          --

          Colin Bryant
          Vancouver, Canada

           


          From: bcssp5 <rpyatt3675@...>
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 3:35:13 PM
          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

           
          It seems to me that the more one shifts, the more one approaches derailleurville. I've always wondered about that crossover point - the number of gears beyond which one is best served by a derailleur versus an igh. Five seems to be the sweet spot for an all around igh.

          With the appropriate rear cog (per messing around with Sheldon Brown's calculator), an SA S-RF5(W) gives a low of about 43 gear inches up to 110 gi. That's all but identical to the range given by a typical 9-speed derailleur cassette. In other words, the range is covered; covering that same range using lots of small steps is probably best done via cassette.

          I have a feeling that we'll see lots of bikes that currently have 8 speed Nexus hubs re-specced to use this new 5-speed.

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Stout wrote:
          >
          > Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
          >  
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: bikealfa
          > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
          > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
          >
          >
          >  
          > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
          >
          > Michael Wilson
          >
          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
          > >
          > > -Sven
          > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: Colin Bryant
          > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
          > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
          > > >
          > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
          > > >
          > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
          > > >  
          > > > --
          >



        • 4130531@gmx.com
          ... Actually it is the people who ignore what their customers want who are fools. -Sven
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 8, 2013
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: bikealfa
            > Sent: 01/07/13 06:36 AM
            > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
            >
            > So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they.

            Actually it is the people who ignore what their customers want who are fools.


            -Sven
          • Sven XX
            The bars are the flavor of the month. The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade. Here in Portland new bike shops couldn t even keep them in
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 8, 2013
              The bars are the flavor of the month.

              The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.

              Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even keep them in stock during the height of the fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.

              Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.

              It was brutal.

              Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:

              http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html



              -Sven
            • Rick Paulos
              Yo! Sven, check the date of that Trek posting.
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 8, 2013
                Yo! Sven, check the date of that Trek posting.


                At 03:20 PM 1/8/2013, you wrote:
                >
                >
                >The bars are the flavor of the month.
                >
                >The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.
                >
                >Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even
                >keep them in stock during the height of the
                >fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up
                >old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.
                >
                >Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon
                >fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.
                >
                >It was brutal.
                >
                >Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:
                >
                ><http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html>http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html
                >
                >-Sven
                >
              • Colin Bryant
                Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time).  I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 9, 2013
                  Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time). 

                  I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in about 7km.  The first 1/2 trip has more stop and go than the second half, where there is a 10 minute hill climb, that has few changes.  I usually keep my cadence between 80-100, so not that narrow a range.

                  Yes.  Rider styles, terrain and bike styles vary a lot.
                   
                  --

                  Colin Bryant
                  Vancouver, Canada

                   


                  From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
                  To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:27:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                   
                  Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                   

                  From: bikealfa <mtwils@...>
                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                  Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                   
                  Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                  Michael Wilson

                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                  >
                  > -Sven
                  >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Colin Bryant
                  > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                  > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > >
                  > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                  > >
                  > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                  > >  
                  > > --


                • John Harvey
                  I suspect it is the number of intersections and the elevation changes which are driving the gear changes as much as the rider s style. John Harvey ... From:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 9, 2013
                    I suspect it is the number of intersections and the elevation changes which are driving the gear changes as much as the rider's style.

                    John Harvey


                    From: "Colin Bryant" <sk8ski2004@...>
                    To: "Geared hub bikes" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:56:00 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                     

                    Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time). 

                    I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in about 7km.  The first 1/2 trip has more stop and go than the second half, where there is a 10 minute hill climb, that has few changes.  I usually keep my cadence between 80-100, so not that narrow a range.

                    Yes.  Rider styles, terrain and bike styles vary a lot.
                     
                    --

                    Colin Bryant
                    Vancouver, Canada

                     


                    From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
                    To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:27:18 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                     
                    Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                     

                    From: bikealfa <mtwils@...>
                    To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                    Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                     
                    Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                    Michael Wilson

                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                    >
                    > -Sven
                    >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Colin Bryant
                    > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                    > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                    > >
                    > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                    > >
                    > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                    > >  
                    > > --


                  • Colin Bryant
                    All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.  It s easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are not bought at
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 9, 2013
                      All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.
                       
                      --

                      Colin Bryant
                      Vancouver, Canada

                       


                      From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                      To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:20:38 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                       
                      The bars are the flavor of the month.

                      The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.

                      Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even keep them in stock during the height of the fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.

                      Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.

                      It was brutal.

                      Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:

                      http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html

                      -Sven


                    • pj
                      So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it s not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 9, 2013
                        So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it's not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus 7.
                        <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37116.htm>

                        Of course, since this is Shimano, you'll also need the "small parts kit" (cassette ring and anti-turn washers), not included with the hub:
                        <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37152.htm>
                        and a shifter, not included with the hub:
                        <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-53978.htm>

                        I'm not in the industry, but I seem to recall the overall percentage of drop bar bikes vs. upright bar bikes in the world market is well down in the single digits. For bikes equipped with IGHs, it's almost certainly even lower. It's a shock that any of the IGH manufacturers offer any shifter styles specifically for drop bars - although why for some IGH models they offer only twist grip shifters (for upright bars) is a mystery.

                        > All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.
                        >  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are
                        > not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.

                        And bike shops are loosing ground:

                        <http://www.bike-eu.com/Home/General/2013/1/Fewer-Americans-Purchase-Bike-Shops-1141812W/>

                        pj
                      • jim
                        Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist? Is it just what customers expect to find
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 9, 2013
                          Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist? Is it just what customers expect to find on Townie style bikes?
                           
                           
                          From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:42 PM
                          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                           
                          So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it's not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus 7.
                          http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37116.htm>

                          Of course, since this is Shimano, you'll also need the "small parts kit" (cassette ring and anti-turn washers), not included with the hub:
                          http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37152.htm>
                          and a shifter, not included with the hub:
                          http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-53978.htm>

                          I'm not in the industry, but I seem to recall the overall percentage of drop bar bikes vs. upright bar bikes in the world market is well down in the single digits. For bikes equipped with IGHs, it's almost certainly even lower. It's a shock that any of the IGH manufacturers offer any shifter styles specifically for drop bars - although why for some IGH models they offer only twist grip shifters (for upright bars) is a mystery.

                          > All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.
                          >  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are
                          > not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.

                          And bike shops are loosing ground:

                          http://www.bike-eu.com/Home/General/2013/1/Fewer-Americans-Purchase-Bike-Shops-1141812W/>

                          pj

                        • pj
                          It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there s also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 10, 2013
                            It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there's also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake and the version intended for use with rim brakes, which adds a -VS to the model number. The -VS versions come with an additional LH dust shield, which covers the place the supplemental drum brake isn't. Amazingly, this being Shimano, this dust shield is also available separately.

                            > Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger
                            > shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist?

                            Perhaps Chubby Checker was right all along.
                          • jim
                            Man, Chubby had it going on before anyone even knew what it was. A very civilized dance move, easily done even in nice dress clothes.   For anyone unfamiliar
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 10, 2013
                              Man, Chubby had it going on before anyone even knew what it was. A very civilized dance move, easily done even in nice dress clothes.
                               
                              For anyone unfamiliar with the reference, here's a link to a youTube offering of Dick Clark's American Bandstand television show in 1960 with Chubby performing his signature song and moves.
                               
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmR00cErBdw 
                              Chubby Checker "The Twist"

                              From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:12 AM
                              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                               
                              It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there's also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake and the version intended for use with rim brakes, which adds a -VS to the model number. The -VS versions come with an additional LH dust shield, which covers the place the supplemental drum brake isn't. Amazingly, this being Shimano, this dust shield is also available separately.

                              > Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger
                              > shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist?

                              Perhaps Chubby Checker was right all along.

                            • enginator1
                              Now I thought stump-puller was an American expression:-)
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 9, 2015
                                Now I thought stump-puller was an American expression:-)
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