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Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

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  • Arthur Stout
    This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 4, 2013
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      This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.

      From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
      To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
      Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

       
      Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!

      http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>

      A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.

      If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.

      pj



    • Mark Stonich
      ... What a sweet set of ratios! Gear to gear jumps are 33.5% - 15.8% - 15.2% - 15.7% To me the big question will be the amount of cable travel between each
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        On 1/4/2013 3:21 PM, Sven XX wrote:
        > Here is a listing for it on the Shimano Line up chart:
        >
        > http://productinfo.shimano.com/lineupchart.html#series=nexus&speed=inter-5

        What a sweet set of ratios! Gear to gear jumps are 33.5% - 15.8% -
        15.2% - 15.7%

        To me the big question will be the amount of cable travel between each
        shift. I'm hoping that it could be used with the SA 5 speed bar end
        shifter. If the the amount of travel between gears, as a % of the total
        travel, is similar to to the SA I can turn a differential pulley with
        the diameter ratio the same as the total cable travel ratio between the
        hubs. Travel Agent style.

        --
        Mark Stonich;
        BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
        5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
        Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
      • Colin Bryant
        It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can t see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 5, 2013
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          It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
           
          --

          Colin Bryant
          Vancouver, Canada

           


          From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

           
          This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.

          From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

           
          Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!

          http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>

          A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.

          If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.

          pj





        • Sven XX
          And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars.... -Sven
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 5, 2013
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            And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....

            -Sven

            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Colin Bryant
            > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
            > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
            >
            > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
            >  
            > --
            >
            > Colin Bryant
            > Vancouver, Canada
            >  
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >  From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
            > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
            >  
            >
            >  
            > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
            >
            > ________________________________
            >  From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
            > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
            > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
            >  
            >
            >  
            > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
            >
            > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
            >
            > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
            >
            > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
            >
            > pj
          • Colin Bryant
            I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts. Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 5, 2013
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              I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.

              Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
               
              --

              Colin Bryant
              Vancouver, Canada

               


              From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
              Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

               
              And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....

              -Sven

              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Colin Bryant
              > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
              > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
              >
              > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
              >  
              > --
              >
              > Colin Bryant
              > Vancouver, Canada
              >  
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
              > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
              >  
              >
              >  
              > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
              >
              > ________________________________
              >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
              > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
              > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
              >  
              >
              >  
              > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
              >
              > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
              >
              > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
              >
              > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
              >
              > pj



            • Sven XX
              Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude. -Sven
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 5, 2013
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                Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.

                -Sven

                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Colin Bryant
                > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                >
                > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                >
                > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                >  
                > --
                >
                > Colin Bryant
                > Vancouver, Canada
                >  
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                >  From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
                > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                >  
                >
                >  
                > And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....
                >
                > -Sven
                >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Colin Bryant
                > > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
                > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                > >
                > > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
                > >  
                > > --
                > >
                > > Colin Bryant
                > > Vancouver, Canada
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
                > > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                > >  
                > >
                > >  
                > > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
                > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                > >  
                > >
                > >  
                > > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
                > >
                > > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
                > >
                > > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
                > >
                > > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
                > >
                > > pj
              • bikealfa
                Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the cool fixed bikes
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 6, 2013
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                  Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                  Michael Wilson

                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                  >
                  > -Sven
                  >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Colin Bryant
                  > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                  > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > >
                  > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                  > >
                  > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                  > >  
                  > > --
                  > >
                  > > Colin Bryant
                  > > Vancouver, Canada
                  > >  
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > >  From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                  > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > >  
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > > And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....
                  > >
                  > > -Sven
                  > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: Colin Bryant
                  > > > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
                  > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > > >
                  > > > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
                  > > >  
                  > > > --
                  > > >
                  > > > Colin Bryant
                  > > > Vancouver, Canada
                  > > >  
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
                  > > > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > > >  
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                  > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
                  > > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                  > > >  
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
                  > > >
                  > > > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
                  > > >
                  > > > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
                  > > >
                  > > > pj
                  >
                • Arthur Stout
                  Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout  
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 6, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                     

                    From: bikealfa <mtwils@...>
                    To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                    Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                     
                    Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                    Michael Wilson

                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                    >
                    > -Sven
                    >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Colin Bryant
                    > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                    > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                    > >
                    > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                    > >
                    > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                    > >  
                    > > --
                  • Sven XX
                    The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd. They don t like brifters and won t buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 6, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd.

                      They don't like brifters and won't buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers and shifters.

                      This unnecessarily complicates switching between a single speed wheel and an IGH one, and limits brake choices.

                      They also won't buy anything that looks remotely like "comfort bike".

                      "Comfort bike" is like kryptonite to the fixie crowd.


                      -Sven

                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: bikealfa
                      > Sent: 01/06/13 07:14 AM
                      > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      >
                      > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
                      >
                      > Michael Wilson
                      >
                      > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                      > >
                      > > -Sven
                      > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Colin Bryant
                      > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                      > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      > > >
                      > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                      > > >
                      > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                      > > >  
                      > > > --
                      > > >
                      > > > Colin Bryant
                      > > > Vancouver, Canada
                      > > >  
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ________________________________
                      > > >  From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                      > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      > > >  
                      > > >
                      > > >  
                      > > > And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....
                      > > >
                      > > > -Sven
                      > > >
                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > > From: Colin Bryant
                      > > > > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
                      > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
                      > > > >  
                      > > > > --
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Colin Bryant
                      > > > > Vancouver, Canada
                      > > > >  
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
                      > > > > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
                      > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      > > > >  
                      > > > >
                      > > > >  
                      > > > > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ________________________________
                      > > > >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                      > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
                      > > > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                      > > > >  
                      > > > >
                      > > > >  
                      > > > > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > pj
                      > >
                    • bcssp5
                      It seems to me that the more one shifts, the more one approaches derailleurville. I ve always wondered about that crossover point - the number of gears beyond
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 6, 2013
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                        It seems to me that the more one shifts, the more one approaches derailleurville. I've always wondered about that crossover point - the number of gears beyond which one is best served by a derailleur versus an igh. Five seems to be the sweet spot for an all around igh.

                        With the appropriate rear cog (per messing around with Sheldon Brown's calculator), an SA S-RF5(W) gives a low of about 43 gear inches up to 110 gi. That's all but identical to the range given by a typical 9-speed derailleur cassette. In other words, the range is covered; covering that same range using lots of small steps is probably best done via cassette.

                        I have a feeling that we'll see lots of bikes that currently have 8 speed Nexus hubs re-specced to use this new 5-speed.

                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Stout wrote:
                        >
                        > Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                        >  
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: bikealfa
                        > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                        > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
                        >
                        > Michael Wilson
                        >
                        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                        > >
                        > > -Sven
                        > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: Colin Bryant
                        > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                        > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                        > > >
                        > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                        > > >
                        > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                        > > >  
                        > > > --
                        >
                      • Andrew Curl
                        Depends on the hub you use. I m using a 1950 sturmey FC and you need to shift a lot to stay on the sweet spot. I ve made up a double sprocket and use a
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 7, 2013
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                          Depends on the hub you use. I'm using a 1950 sturmey FC and you need to shift a lot to stay on the sweet spot. I've made up a double sprocket and use a derailleur to give two ranges, fast and f*cking fast, but as first gear is a "stump puller", I actually use the bike as a seven speeder after all.
                           
                          -Andrew UK
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: bcssp5
                          Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:35 PM
                          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                           

                          It seems to me that the more one shifts, the more one approaches derailleurville. I've always wondered about that crossover point - the number of gears beyond which one is best served by a derailleur versus an igh. Five seems to be the sweet spot for an all around igh.

                          With the appropriate rear cog (per messing around with Sheldon Brown's calculator), an SA S-RF5(W) gives a low of about 43 gear inches up to 110 gi. That's all but identical to the range given by a typical 9-speed derailleur cassette. In other words, the range is covered; covering that same range using lots of small steps is probably best done via cassette.

                          I have a feeling that we'll see lots of bikes that currently have 8 speed Nexus hubs re-specced to use this new 5-speed.

                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Stout wrote:
                          >
                          > Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                          >  
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: bikealfa
                          > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                          > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
                          >
                          > Michael Wilson
                          >
                          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                          > >
                          > > -Sven
                          > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: Colin Bryant
                          > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                          > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                          > > >
                          > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                          > > >
                          > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                          > > >  
                          > > > --
                          >

                        • bikealfa
                          So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they. The simplicity of the bike is one of the reasons I like the coaster brake IGH.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 7, 2013
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                            So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they.

                            The simplicity of the bike is one of the reasons I like the coaster brake IGH. 2 cables, a front brake and a shifter.


                            Michael Wilson

                            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd.
                            >
                            > They don't like brifters and won't buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers and shifters.
                            >
                            > This unnecessarily complicates switching between a single speed wheel and an IGH one, and limits brake choices.
                            >
                            > They also won't buy anything that looks remotely like "comfort bike".
                            >
                            > "Comfort bike" is like kryptonite to the fixie crowd.
                            >
                            >
                            > -Sven
                            >
                          • Colin Bryant
                            Flavour of the month may not be what Shimano executives see in their business model.   -- Colin Bryant Vancouver, Canada   ________________________________
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 7, 2013
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                              "Flavour of the month" may not be what Shimano executives see in their business model.
                               
                              --

                              Colin Bryant
                              Vancouver, Canada

                               


                              From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 3:04:46 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                               
                              The current flavor of the month is riser bars with the Fixie crowd.

                              They don't like brifters and won't buy them *precisely because* they integrate brake levers and shifters.

                              This unnecessarily complicates switching between a single speed wheel and an IGH one, and limits brake choices.

                              They also won't buy anything that looks remotely like "comfort bike".

                              "Comfort bike" is like kryptonite to the fixie crowd.

                              -Sven

                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: bikealfa
                              > Sent: 01/06/13 07:14 AM
                              > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              >
                              > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
                              >
                              > Michael Wilson
                              >
                              > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                              > >
                              > > -Sven
                              > >
                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > From: Colin Bryant
                              > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                              > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              > > >
                              > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                              > > >
                              > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                              > > >  
                              > > > --
                              > > >
                              > > > Colin Bryant
                              > > > Vancouver, Canada
                              > > >  
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ________________________________
                              > > >  From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                              > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:52:54 AM
                              > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              > > >  
                              > > >
                              > > >  
                              > > > And an *entire generation* of cyclists raised on fixed gears/single speeds who like clean handlebars....
                              > > >
                              > > > -Sven
                              > > >
                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > From: Colin Bryant
                              > > > > Sent: 01/05/13 10:47 AM
                              > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              > > > >
                              > > > > It might be worth Shimano offering bar end shifters, but I can't see much of a market for down tube shifters.  Only people with old frames and who are comfortable with moving their hands away from brake/steering, to shift, would be interested.
                              > > > >  
                              > > > > --
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Colin Bryant
                              > > > > Vancouver, Canada
                              > > > >  
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ________________________________
                              > > > >  From: Arthur Stout stoutarthur@...>
                              > > > > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.comGeared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 2:27:54 PM
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              > > > >  
                              > > > >
                              > > > >  
                              > > > > This does look like a cool hub, but Shimano continues their other tradition of failing to offer a selection of shifters for their IGH.  If Shimano came out with dedicated indexed downtube lever and bar ends for their IGH I think they would get more converts from SA, which does have such items.  Shimano seems to prefer twist shifters for this sort of thing.  I understand there are a couple of third party solutions for certain hubs, but lots of people prefer matching OEM supported solutions.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ________________________________
                              > > > >  From: pj prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                              > > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 7:10 AM
                              > > > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                              > > > >  
                              > > > >
                              > > > >  
                              > > > > Good find. The US market 2013 Breezer Downtown 5 spec's this hub...but I thought that was a typo!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_5>
                              > > > >
                              > > > > A couple of list members have expressed a desire for a narrow range 5-speed in the past, so maybe this will scratch their itch. If the ratios are correct, this '5' seems to follow the Shimano pattern of not having a direct drive gear, like the 7 and 11.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > If it was a SRAM hub, some posters would claim it doesn't really exist, since it's not on Shimano web site. If it was a Sturmey-Archer hub, the one down three up gear ratios would be the kiss of death. Since it's Shimano, it will probably be pretty well received. It looks small, the polished hub shell is pretty and the advertised weight (yeah, I know) is fairly light. I kinda like it at this point.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > pj
                              > >


                            • Colin Bryant
                              I m not likely to return to deraulers, except on a recreational bike (a fantasy).  Too much maintenance. I ride a recumbent, so steep hill climbing is a bit
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 7, 2013
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                                I'm not likely to return to deraulers, except on a recreational bike (a fantasy).  Too much maintenance.

                                I ride a recumbent, so steep hill climbing is a bit slower and top speeds are higher.  The overall gear range of my Alfine 11 is less that 3 x 6/8/9 bikes that I've had, but it is what I need to cover me from crawling the steepest hills that I encounter, to 45+ kmh before I'm spinning 100rpm, and the larger IGH steps are about right .  I was quite happy with the Alfine 8, on my two previous conventional bikes.
                                 
                                --

                                Colin Bryant
                                Vancouver, Canada

                                 


                                From: bcssp5 <rpyatt3675@...>
                                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 3:35:13 PM
                                Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                 
                                It seems to me that the more one shifts, the more one approaches derailleurville. I've always wondered about that crossover point - the number of gears beyond which one is best served by a derailleur versus an igh. Five seems to be the sweet spot for an all around igh.

                                With the appropriate rear cog (per messing around with Sheldon Brown's calculator), an SA S-RF5(W) gives a low of about 43 gear inches up to 110 gi. That's all but identical to the range given by a typical 9-speed derailleur cassette. In other words, the range is covered; covering that same range using lots of small steps is probably best done via cassette.

                                I have a feeling that we'll see lots of bikes that currently have 8 speed Nexus hubs re-specced to use this new 5-speed.

                                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Stout wrote:
                                >
                                > Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                                >  
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: bikealfa
                                > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                                > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                > Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.
                                >
                                > Michael Wilson
                                >
                                > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                                > >
                                > > -Sven
                                > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: Colin Bryant
                                > > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                                > > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                > > >
                                > > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                                > > >
                                > > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                                > > >  
                                > > > --
                                >



                              • 4130531@gmx.com
                                ... Actually it is the people who ignore what their customers want who are fools. -Sven
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: bikealfa
                                  > Sent: 01/07/13 06:36 AM
                                  > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                  >
                                  > So they would not be interested in the Pista with the brifter. More fools they.

                                  Actually it is the people who ignore what their customers want who are fools.


                                  -Sven
                                • Sven XX
                                  The bars are the flavor of the month. The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade. Here in Portland new bike shops couldn t even keep them in
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                    The bars are the flavor of the month.

                                    The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.

                                    Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even keep them in stock during the height of the fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.

                                    Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.

                                    It was brutal.

                                    Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:

                                    http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html



                                    -Sven
                                  • Rick Paulos
                                    Yo! Sven, check the date of that Trek posting.
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jan 8, 2013
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                                      Yo! Sven, check the date of that Trek posting.


                                      At 03:20 PM 1/8/2013, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >The bars are the flavor of the month.
                                      >
                                      >The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.
                                      >
                                      >Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even
                                      >keep them in stock during the height of the
                                      >fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up
                                      >old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.
                                      >
                                      >Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon
                                      >fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.
                                      >
                                      >It was brutal.
                                      >
                                      >Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:
                                      >
                                      ><http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html>http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html
                                      >
                                      >-Sven
                                      >
                                    • Colin Bryant
                                      Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time).  I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jan 9, 2013
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                                        Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time). 

                                        I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in about 7km.  The first 1/2 trip has more stop and go than the second half, where there is a 10 minute hill climb, that has few changes.  I usually keep my cadence between 80-100, so not that narrow a range.

                                        Yes.  Rider styles, terrain and bike styles vary a lot.
                                         
                                        --

                                        Colin Bryant
                                        Vancouver, Canada

                                         


                                        From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
                                        To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:27:18 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                         
                                        Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                                         

                                        From: bikealfa <mtwils@...>
                                        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                                        Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                         
                                        Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                                        Michael Wilson

                                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                                        >
                                        > -Sven
                                        >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: Colin Bryant
                                        > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                                        > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                        > >
                                        > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                                        > >
                                        > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                                        > >  
                                        > > --


                                      • John Harvey
                                        I suspect it is the number of intersections and the elevation changes which are driving the gear changes as much as the rider s style. John Harvey ... From:
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jan 9, 2013
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                                          I suspect it is the number of intersections and the elevation changes which are driving the gear changes as much as the rider's style.

                                          John Harvey


                                          From: "Colin Bryant" <sk8ski2004@...>
                                          To: "Geared hub bikes" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:56:00 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                           

                                          Actually 80-100 was an estimate of individual gear changes (I do some two at a time). 

                                          I just plotted about 1/2 my trip and came up with over 100 changes in about 7km.  The first 1/2 trip has more stop and go than the second half, where there is a 10 minute hill climb, that has few changes.  I usually keep my cadence between 80-100, so not that narrow a range.

                                          Yes.  Rider styles, terrain and bike styles vary a lot.
                                           
                                          --

                                          Colin Bryant
                                          Vancouver, Canada

                                           


                                          From: Arthur Stout <stoutarthur@...>
                                          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:27:18 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                           
                                          Whoa! 80-100 shifts on a one way commute?  I probably shift 150 times a month when I ride five days a week.  Rider styles sure vary!  :)  -Stout
                                           

                                          From: bikealfa <mtwils@...>
                                          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:14 AM
                                          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                           
                                          Which is why integrating the shift and brake levers into one unit is the plan. The integrated dropped bar solution is what is missing - the "cool" fixed bikes seem to be bullhorns for some reason.

                                          Michael Wilson

                                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Sven XX" <4130531@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Fixed and single speed are ALL OVER the mass market, dude.
                                          >
                                          > -Sven
                                          >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: Colin Bryant
                                          > > Sent: 01/05/13 11:04 AM
                                          > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                          > >
                                          > > I think Shimano is most interested in what they can sell mass-market, as OEM parts.
                                          > >
                                          > > Personally, a one way commute across the city involves 80-100 shifts and I want my hands close to the brakes at all times.
                                          > >  
                                          > > --


                                        • Colin Bryant
                                          All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.  It s easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are not bought at
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jan 9, 2013
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                                            All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.
                                             
                                            --

                                            Colin Bryant
                                            Vancouver, Canada

                                             


                                            From: Sven XX <4130531@...>
                                            To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:20:38 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"

                                             
                                            The bars are the flavor of the month.

                                            The Steel single speeds have been the flavor of the decade.

                                            Here in Portland new bike shops couldn't even keep them in stock during the height of the fixie boom, and the used shops were buidling up old trash french bikes single speed wheel sets and selling them for $900.

                                            Meanwhile we had entire shops full of carbon fiber aluminum derailler bikes that wouldn't sell.

                                            It was brutal.

                                            Even the spandex rats who ruined Trek have finally admited defeat:

                                            http://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2012/04/trek-to-build-only-steel-bicycles.html

                                            -Sven


                                          • pj
                                            So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it s not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jan 9, 2013
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                                              So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it's not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus 7.
                                              <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37116.htm>

                                              Of course, since this is Shimano, you'll also need the "small parts kit" (cassette ring and anti-turn washers), not included with the hub:
                                              <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37152.htm>
                                              and a shifter, not included with the hub:
                                              <http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-53978.htm>

                                              I'm not in the industry, but I seem to recall the overall percentage of drop bar bikes vs. upright bar bikes in the world market is well down in the single digits. For bikes equipped with IGHs, it's almost certainly even lower. It's a shock that any of the IGH manufacturers offer any shifter styles specifically for drop bars - although why for some IGH models they offer only twist grip shifters (for upright bars) is a mystery.

                                              > All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.
                                              >  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are
                                              > not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.

                                              And bike shops are loosing ground:

                                              <http://www.bike-eu.com/Home/General/2013/1/Fewer-Americans-Purchase-Bike-Shops-1141812W/>

                                              pj
                                            • jim
                                              Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist? Is it just what customers expect to find
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jan 9, 2013
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                                                Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist? Is it just what customers expect to find on Townie style bikes?
                                                 
                                                 
                                                From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                                                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:42 PM
                                                Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                                 
                                                So, the new Shimano 5-speed IGH: initial street price check indicates it's not that expensive - actually hardly more than the Nexus 3 and well under the Nexus 7.
                                                http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37116.htm>

                                                Of course, since this is Shimano, you'll also need the "small parts kit" (cassette ring and anti-turn washers), not included with the hub:
                                                http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-37152.htm>
                                                and a shifter, not included with the hub:
                                                http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/jbi-53978.htm>

                                                I'm not in the industry, but I seem to recall the overall percentage of drop bar bikes vs. upright bar bikes in the world market is well down in the single digits. For bikes equipped with IGHs, it's almost certainly even lower. It's a shock that any of the IGH manufacturers offer any shifter styles specifically for drop bars - although why for some IGH models they offer only twist grip shifters (for upright bars) is a mystery.

                                                > All of us, signing up for Geared_hub_bikes, are probably bike geeks.
                                                >  It's easy to forget that the majority of bicycles in North America are
                                                > not bought at bike shops, but in department stores.

                                                And bike shops are loosing ground:

                                                http://www.bike-eu.com/Home/General/2013/1/Fewer-Americans-Purchase-Bike-Shops-1141812W/>

                                                pj

                                              • pj
                                                It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there s also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jan 10, 2013
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                                                  It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there's also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake and the version intended for use with rim brakes, which adds a -VS to the model number. The -VS versions come with an additional LH dust shield, which covers the place the supplemental drum brake isn't. Amazingly, this being Shimano, this dust shield is also available separately.

                                                  > Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger
                                                  > shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist?

                                                  Perhaps Chubby Checker was right all along.
                                                • jim
                                                  Man, Chubby had it going on before anyone even knew what it was. A very civilized dance move, easily done even in nice dress clothes.   For anyone unfamiliar
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jan 10, 2013
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                                                    Man, Chubby had it going on before anyone even knew what it was. A very civilized dance move, easily done even in nice dress clothes.
                                                     
                                                    For anyone unfamiliar with the reference, here's a link to a youTube offering of Dick Clark's American Bandstand television show in 1960 with Chubby performing his signature song and moves.
                                                     
                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmR00cErBdw 
                                                    Chubby Checker "The Twist"

                                                    From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                                                    To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:12 AM
                                                    Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re:New Shimano 5 speed hub "Inter-5 SG-5R35"
                                                     
                                                    It looks like in addition to the 32/36 hole and silver/black variations, there's also a distinction between the version intended for use with the Roller Brake and the version intended for use with rim brakes, which adds a -VS to the model number. The -VS versions come with an additional LH dust shield, which covers the place the supplemental drum brake isn't. Amazingly, this being Shimano, this dust shield is also available separately.

                                                    > Shimano makes sweet dependable and inexpensive trigger
                                                    > shifters for derailleur. I wonder why they opt for the twist?

                                                    Perhaps Chubby Checker was right all along.

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