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Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] 3 in 1 Oil Question

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  • sam lingo
    I ve heard it s vegetable based oil and will gumm.I like sewing machine oil as it comes with a long zoom spout that makes it easy to oil a geared hub oil
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 2, 2009
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      I've heard it's vegetable based oil and will gumm.I like sewing machine oil as it comes with a long"zoom"spout that makes it easy to oil a geared hub oil port---sam

      --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Rich Wood <astronut1001@...> wrote:
      From: Rich Wood <astronut1001@...>
      Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] 3 in 1 Oil Question
      To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 8:51 PM

      It seems to me that I have reaed that 3 in 1 oil is a very poor oil
      selection for oiled gear hubs as it eventually gums up the internals
      due to oxidizing and forming a varnish like coating on the parts.
      Eventually it can cause a hub to require disassembly for complete
      cleaning.

      Can anyone confirm this as a potential or actual problem? I did a
      Google search and found only one warning against use of it but all the
      lubricant recommendations were for products other than 3 in 1 oil.
      Oils recommended were 30W automotive, sewing machine or Phil Wood
      Tenacious Oil.

      Rich Wood


    • neal_lerner
      ... I ve also read that about 3-in-1 oil somewhere on the Interweb. I do have a 70s Raleigh manual, and that recommends 20w motor oil for lubricating S-A hubs.
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 2, 2009
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        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
        <astronut1001@...> wrote:
        >
        > It seems to me that I have reaed that 3 in 1 oil is a very poor oil
        > selection for oiled gear hubs as it eventually gums up the internals
        > due to oxidizing and forming a varnish like coating on the parts.
        > Eventually it can cause a hub to require disassembly for complete
        > cleaning.
        >
        > Can anyone confirm this as a potential or actual problem? I did a
        > Google search and found only one warning against use of it but all the
        > lubricant recommendations were for products other than 3 in 1 oil.
        > Oils recommended were 30W automotive, sewing machine or Phil Wood
        > Tenacious Oil.
        >
        > Rich Wood
        >
        I've also read that about 3-in-1 oil somewhere on the Interweb. I do
        have a 70s Raleigh manual, and that recommends 20w motor oil for
        lubricating S-A hubs.

        Neal Lerner
        Brookline, MA
      • Mark Stonich
        ... In my SAs I use 10w-30 but for winter I plan to try Mobil1. I would not use a sticky oil like Phil Tenacious Oil as the pawl springs are so light. I would
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 2, 2009
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          At 3/3/2009 02:51 AM +0000, you wrote:
          >Oils recommended were 30W automotive, sewing machine or Phil Wood
          >Tenacious Oil.

          In my SAs I use 10w-30 but for winter I plan to try Mobil1. I would
          not use a sticky oil like Phil Tenacious Oil as the pawl springs are
          so light.

          I would be interested in trying the right type of grease in a couple
          of my SAs that are on bikes that rarely get ridden. You nees a
          Semi-fluid (NLGI No.00) grade grease and I would prefer a
          synthetic. Amzoil makes one but the smallest amount they sell is a
          35 Lb. bucket.


          Mark Stonich;
          BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
          5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
          Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
          http://mnhpva.org
        • Rich Wood
          Mark; Permaco lists the SA hub grease. No indication of whether or not in stock or the price but an email or phone call might be worthwhile. Rich Wood ...
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 2, 2009
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            Mark;

            Permaco lists the SA hub grease. No indication of whether or not in
            stock or the price but an email or phone call might be worthwhile.

            Rich Wood


            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stonich <mark@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > At 3/3/2009 02:51 AM +0000, you wrote:
            > >Oils recommended were 30W automotive, sewing machine or Phil Wood
            > >Tenacious Oil.
            >
            > In my SAs I use 10w-30 but for winter I plan to try Mobil1. I
            would
            > not use a sticky oil like Phil Tenacious Oil as the pawl springs
            are
            > so light.
            >
            > I would be interested in trying the right type of grease in a
            couple
            > of my SAs that are on bikes that rarely get ridden. You nees a
            > Semi-fluid (NLGI No.00) grade grease and I would prefer a
            > synthetic. Amzoil makes one but the smallest amount they sell is
            a
            > 35 Lb. bucket.
            >
            >
            > Mark Stonich;
            > BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
            > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
            > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
            > http://mnhpva.org
            >
          • prester_john_in_cathay
            3-in-One debuted during the first great bike boom in 1894, making it one of the oldest cycling products you can still buy. The oil was originally intended
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 3, 2009
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              "3-in-One" debuted during the first great bike boom in 1894, making
              it one of the oldest cycling products you can still buy. The oil was
              originally intended for bicycle chains, and the name indicated it "1)
              cleaned, 2) lubrcated and 3) rust proofed", hence, 3-in-One. After
              115 years, it's still not a bad choice for chain lubration.

              3-in-One does indeed contain a vegetable based component, citronella
              oil (ever notice the way 3-in-One smells?), which will go rancid,
              break down and turn into very much a non-lubricant. This residue
              would just fall off a chain, but when enclosed in a small metal shell
              it has no where to go. Probably more American Sturmeys have been
              rendered inoperable by 3-in-One residue than for any other reason.
              The 3-in-One folks themselves do not list hub gears as a potential
              use for their product.

              Best,
              PJ

              PS - In the 1920s, pioneer American Birth control advocate Margaret
              Sanger was married to then president of the 3-in-One Oil company, J.
              Noah Slee. She smuggled illegal European-made diaphragms into the
              USA in secretly coded barrels of the citronella oil imported by 3-in-
              One!
            • Mark Stonich
              ... Thank you. If I can t find a synthetic I ll give them a call. BTW inappropriate greases in an SA hub can be disaster. Semi-fluid grade 00 greases will
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 3, 2009
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                At 3/3/2009 05:43 AM +0000, you wrote:
                >Mark;
                >
                >Permaco lists the SA hub grease. No indication of whether or not in
                >stock or the price but an email or phone call might be worthwhile.
                >
                >Rich Wood

                Thank you. If I can't find a synthetic I'll give them a call.

                BTW inappropriate greases in an SA hub can be disaster. Semi-fluid
                grade 00 greases will get drawn into tight fits due to capillary
                action but others won't. I've taken apart hubs filled with grease
                that had the pawl pins seized in the pawls due to lack of ubrication.


                Mark Stonich;
                BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
                http://mnhpva.org
              • prester_john_in_cathay
                ... I briefly toyed with the idea of putting together a group buy of Amsoil Spy grease, but 35 pounds would be enough for, what? like 1000+ hubs! Then there s
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 3, 2009
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                  Mark wrote in part:
                  > Amzoil makes one but the smallest amount they sell is a
                  > 35 Lb. bucket.

                  I briefly toyed with the idea of putting together a group buy of
                  Amsoil Spy grease, but 35 pounds would be enough for, what? like 1000+
                  hubs! Then there's the hassle of pumping it into smaller labeled and
                  marked tubes for distribution.

                  Surely it would be easier to just get an existing 'net retailer to
                  stock and sell Sturmey SA103A.

                  Best,
                  PJ
                • Rich Wood
                  Mark; I did a Google search and came up with this source for 00 grease in reasonable quantities. Not listed as synthetic.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 3, 2009
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                    Mark;

                    I did a Google search and came up with this source for 00 grease in
                    reasonable quantities. Not listed as synthetic.

                    http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Grease.cfm

                    Amazon also has 3 listings for 00 grade grease in small quantities.
                    Again not specified as synthetic. Looks like used in some lawn
                    mowers and chain saws so a call to a mower/saw repair shop might
                    turn up a local source as the shipping listed by the Amazon sources
                    is not cheap. Also listed as a truck trailer hub grease so a truck
                    repair facility might have it available.

                    Fina also does a OO grade synthetic grease. Listed as Fina Synpro.

                    Rich Wood


                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stonich <mark@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > At 3/3/2009 05:43 AM +0000, you wrote:
                    > >Mark;
                    > >
                    > >Permaco lists the SA hub grease. No indication of whether or not
                    in
                    > >stock or the price but an email or phone call might be worthwhile.
                    > >
                    > >Rich Wood
                    >
                    > Thank you. If I can't find a synthetic I'll give them a call.
                    >
                    > BTW inappropriate greases in an SA hub can be disaster. Semi-
                    fluid
                    > grade 00 greases will get drawn into tight fits due to capillary
                    > action but others won't. I've taken apart hubs filled with grease
                    > that had the pawl pins seized in the pawls due to lack of
                    ubrication.
                    >
                    >
                    > Mark Stonich;
                    > BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                    > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                    > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
                    > http://mnhpva.org
                    >
                  • henry sheil
                    I can certainly vouch for John s statement about 3 in 1 being very bad for hub gears from my own practical experience, but I have also found that a good flush
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 10, 2009
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                      I can certainly vouch for John's statement about 3 in 1 being very bad for hub gears from my own practical experience, but I have also found that a good flush out with WD 40 can work wonders at unsticking the guts, before proceeding to use one's preferred lubricant.

                      Henry in Oz

                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "prester_john_in_cathay" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > "3-in-One" debuted during the first great bike boom in 1894, making
                      > it one of the oldest cycling products you can still buy. The oil was
                      > originally intended for bicycle chains, and the name indicated it "1)
                      > cleaned, 2) lubrcated and 3) rust proofed", hence, 3-in-One. After
                      > 115 years, it's still not a bad choice for chain lubration.
                      >
                      > 3-in-One does indeed contain a vegetable based component, citronella
                      > oil (ever notice the way 3-in-One smells?), which will go rancid,
                      > break down and turn into very much a non-lubricant. This residue
                      > would just fall off a chain, but when enclosed in a small metal shell
                      > it has no where to go. Probably more American Sturmeys have been
                      > rendered inoperable by 3-in-One residue than for any other reason.
                      > The 3-in-One folks themselves do not list hub gears as a potential
                      > use for their product.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > PJ
                      >
                      > PS - In the 1920s, pioneer American Birth control advocate Margaret
                      > Sanger was married to then president of the 3-in-One Oil company, J.
                      > Noah Slee. She smuggled illegal European-made diaphragms into the
                      > USA in secretly coded barrels of the citronella oil imported by 3-in-
                      > One!
                      >
                    • rons_hobbies
                      My ignorance of organic chemestry is now out in the wild. Never would have thought the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 3 9:49 AM
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                        My ignorance of organic chemestry is now "out in the wild." Never would have thought the < 3% ammount of citronella oil would be sufficent to leave a residue. Makes me think heat is also a factor.

                        Thanks,

                        And my Public Health practioner GF will appriciate the factoid on Ms. Sanger.

                        Ron

                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "prester_john_in_cathay" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "3-in-One" debuted during the first great bike boom in 1894, making
                        > it one of the oldest cycling products you can still buy. The oil was
                        > originally intended for bicycle chains, and the name indicated it "1)
                        > cleaned, 2) lubrcated and 3) rust proofed", hence, 3-in-One. After
                        > 115 years, it's still not a bad choice for chain lubration.
                        >
                        > 3-in-One does indeed contain a vegetable based component, citronella
                        > oil (ever notice the way 3-in-One smells?), which will go rancid,
                        > break down and turn into very much a non-lubricant. This residue
                        > would just fall off a chain, but when enclosed in a small metal shell
                        > it has no where to go. Probably more American Sturmeys have been
                        > rendered inoperable by 3-in-One residue than for any other reason.
                        > The 3-in-One folks themselves do not list hub gears as a potential
                        > use for their product.
                        >
                        > Best,
                        > PJ
                        >
                        > PS - In the 1920s, pioneer American Birth control advocate Margaret
                        > Sanger was married to then president of the 3-in-One Oil company, J.
                        > Noah Slee. She smuggled illegal European-made diaphragms into the
                        > USA in secretly coded barrels of the citronella oil imported by 3-in-
                        > One!
                        >
                      • Andrew Curl
                        I am no great chemist. Oil is oil is oil; since we discovered that black stuff coming out of the ground, we ve just been adding different additives to it so it
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 3 10:25 AM
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                          I am no great chemist. Oil is oil is oil; since we discovered that black stuff coming out of the ground, we've just been adding different additives to it so it does what we want. I don't care how long 3 in 1 has been about, it is still crap. The lighter fractions evaporate off quite quickly, and the oily residue is all that is left. If you water your ride to satuaration point weekly, not a problem. Everyone else, use motor mower oil.
                           
                           
                           
                          -Andrew
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 5:49 PM
                          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 3 in 1 Oil Question

                           

                          My ignorance of organic chemestry is now "out in the wild." Never would have thought the < 3% ammount of citronella oil would be sufficent to leave a residue. Makes me think heat is also a factor.

                          Thanks,

                          And my Public Health practioner GF will appriciate the factoid on Ms. Sanger.

                          Ron

                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "prester_john_in_cathay" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "3-in-One" debuted during the first great bike boom in 1894, making
                          > it one of the oldest cycling products you can still buy. The oil was
                          > originally intended for bicycle chains, and the name indicated it "1)
                          > cleaned, 2) lubrcated and 3) rust proofed", hence, 3-in-One. After
                          > 115 years, it's still not a bad choice for chain lubration.
                          >
                          > 3-in-One does indeed contain a vegetable based component, citronella
                          > oil (ever notice the way 3-in-One smells?), which will go rancid,
                          > break down and turn into very much a non-lubricant. This residue
                          > would just fall off a chain, but when enclosed in a small metal shell
                          > it has no where to go. Probably more American Sturmeys have been
                          > rendered inoperable by 3-in-One residue than for any other reason.
                          > The 3-in-One folks themselves do not list hub gears as a potential
                          > use for their product.
                          >
                          > Best,
                          > PJ
                          >
                          > PS - In the 1920s, pioneer American Birth control advocate Margaret
                          > Sanger was married to then president of the 3-in-One Oil company, J.
                          > Noah Slee. She smuggled illegal European-made diaphragms into the
                          > USA in secretly coded barrels of the citronella oil imported by 3-in-
                          > One!
                          >

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