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Re: 'nother new member

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  • Rich Wood
    Mike; I do not even have it built into a wheel, nor have I chosen a frame to mount it in yet, which would determine parts and dimensions needed. I was thinking
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 25, 2008
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      Mike;

      I do not even have it built into a wheel, nor have I chosen a frame
      to mount it in yet, which would determine parts and dimensions
      needed.

      I was thinking of possibly running a full housing to as close to the
      hub indicator chain hookup as possible. Keeps dirt and such out of
      the cable and housing. One thing I like about the Rohloff with
      external shift box and Sram iMotion9 hubs is that they do have cable
      housings running the full distance from hub hookup to shifter.

      I have the Sachs versions of fulcrum clip and pulley that should
      work if they turn out to have the right size clamps for whatever
      frame I get. Also I note that Harris Cyclery looks like they have
      about everything I should need in the way of SA parts when the time
      comes.

      Thanks for the offer but no real immediate plans to activate the SA
      hub and I hate to deprive you of parts that you might need.

      BTW the 3 speed sprocket setup on your AM hub, is that something you
      cobbled up or was it a aftermarket accessory offered for SA hubs at
      one time? Seems to me that I remember reading of a two input
      sprocket arrangement in the past but not a three sprocket cluster.

      Sounds about like the same general idea as the current Sram
      Dualdrive II setup with a 3 speed gear hub and a 8 or 9 speed
      casette cluster. That has always sounded intriguing to me.

      Rich Wood


      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bullis"
      <workinonitstill@...> wrote:
      >
      > Rich, I can help you with MOST of what you need for your AW. I
      have
      > some cables, anchorages, nuts, and anti-rotation washers. I have a
      > number of AM and FW indicator chains but the one for the AW is
      iffy.
      > I'll need to look in the parts bin to be sure. Do you have the
      > fulcrum clip, fulcrum stop, and the cable pully? How long does the
      > cable
      > need to be?
      >
      > Mike
      >
      > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
      > <astronut1001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Mike;
      > >
      > > I posted the link on Hubstripping a few days ago. Glad you
      caught
      > > it.
      > >
      > > Yep, Fitchel & Sachs from about 1995. One has the old SA style
      > > thumbshifter and the other has a gripshift type shifter. I also
      > > have the F&S bike components catalogs from that era, 95 and 96.
      By
      > > then they had bought out Maillard and some other European bike
      > > components manifacturers too as I recall.
      > >
      > > I understand they started doing 3 speed hubs in about 1904, only
      > two
      > > years after Sturmey Archer. No false neutrals that I have noted
      > > unlike older AW hubs when misadjusted. Gear steps are a hair
      wider
      > > but not noticeable to me in use.
      > >
      > > The Rohloff is very nice IMO. Close ratios and a very wide
      range.
      > > Also the smoothest shifting hub I have personally used. No
      spring
      > > loading on the shift cables so that operation feels identical
      > > shifting up or down. Excellent installation from the
      manufacturer
      > > in the Civia Hyland frame with Rohloff hub specific adjustable
      > > dropouts for chain tension adjustment. Disc brake caliper
      mounting
      > > is on the sliding dropout too so no change in caliper to disc
      > > position when adjusting the chain tension. Well thought out
      > > installation.
      > >
      > > I had a bike with the older version of the S7 hub. Installed in
      an
      > > old Trek steel frame with semi horizontal Campy style dropouts.
      > > Stolen out of my garage. Thankfully I did not have too much
      money
      > > tied up in it.
      > >
      > > My old AW needs some parts. No indicator chain, anti rotation
      > > washers, mounting nuts or cable and cable to indicator chain
      > > connector. I do have an old all netal SA thumb shifter for it.
      > >
      > > Rich Wood
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bullis"
      > > <workinonitstill@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hey Rich,
      > > >
      > > > I found the note about the Yahoo group while peruseing the
      > > > Hubstripping site and thought I'd check it out.
      > > >
      > > > Are your preSram Sachs hubs Fitchel & Sachs? How do they
      compare
      > > to
      > > > an AW? I have an NOS F&S that I forgot I had. No shifter or
      > > indicator
      > > > chain, just the hub and cog.
      > > >
      > > > I'm also curious about the Rohloff. I gave one a passing
      thought
      > > > when I was having the Rivendell built but as the build cost
      was
      > > > already at three grand, a passing thought was all it was.
      > > >
      > > > As to the fixed gear conversion that I do to SA hubs, I use
      my
      > > own
      > > > version of the "Reversed Pawl" method that can be found here,
      > > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/gear.html
      > > > It is fairly straight forward and does not require any
      tooling
      > > that
      > > > cannot be purchased at a local hardware store. I can usually
      turn
      > > one
      > > > around in less than two hours.
      > > >
      > > > The drawback is that without a specially machined and
      hardened
      > > > sliding clutch, there is quite a bit of backlash. However, if
      you
      > > > don't trackstand or skipstop(I can't do either), it isn't much
      of
      > > an
      > > > issue. With the clutch, there is more slop from the cog/driver
      > > > interface than from the hub.
      > > >
      > > > As for riding impressions, it is just like riding a fixed
      gear
      > > that
      > > > has a 25% reduction low gear for climbing and a neutral for
      > > stealth
      > > > coasting downhill. My first hub, which has a clutch made from
      > heat
      > > > treated A2 steel, has about 3500 miles on it and has just
      started
      > > > showing some increased backlash. Time to open it up and see
      what
      > > is
      > > > starting to wear out; the clutch, the driver, or the pins.
      > > >
      > > > I have built nine hubs so far. I have three, four are
      scattered
      > > > around the US and one is in Iceland. That's eight. The ninth
      one
      > > is
      > > > being donated to a charity raffle.
      > > >
      > > > I'll get the process written out and post it in a few days.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers
      > > >
      > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
      > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Mike;
      > > > >
      > > > > Welcome to the group. Sounds like members can use your
      > > > experience.
      > > > > How did you find out about us? If a link from another site
      > then
      > > I
      > > > > would like to know about it as I have requested that links
      be
      > > > placed
      > > > > on what I thought would be some appropriate web sites. This
      is
      > > a
      > > > > new group and I am trying to grow it to increase the amount
      of
      > > > > expertise available and as a place for hubgearaholics to
      gather.
      > > > >
      > > > > Please look over the Files and Links. Additions,
      corrections
      > or
      > > > > just telling me I am full of BS, and suggesting corrections,
      > all
      > > > > appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > My own gear hub bikes include two with pre Sram Sachs 3
      speeds,
      > > a
      > > > > Swobo Dixon with a Sram iMotion9 and a just acquired Civia
      > > Hyland
      > > > > with a Rohloff hub. I have a 1954 AW hub that needs spoking
      up
      > > and
      > > > > putting into service too.
      > > > >
      > > > > One of the 3 speeds is in a Japanese Duracycle originally
      fixed
      > > > gear
      > > > > bike from about 12 or so years ago. Told they were made as
      > road
      > > > > practice bikes for Kirin riders in Japan at the time. It
      has
      > > > mounts
      > > > > for road brakes.
      > > > >
      > > > > Derilleur bikes are a old Colnago Super record from about
      1980
      > > as
      > > > > near as I can figure and a Univega 21 speed.
      > > > >
      > > > > Seeing as how you have done the AW to 2 speed fixed
      conversion
      > > how
      > > > > about posting which set of directions you used. I have
      noted
      > > about
      > > > > three procedures on the web. Also impressions of riding and
      > > info
      > > > on
      > > > > how much backlash in the converted hubs etc. Also feel free
      to
      > > > post
      > > > > pictures of some of your bikes.
      > > > >
      > > > > An Australian member of the group, Roger Brandon, has you
      beat
      > > with
      > > > > about 10 or so gear hub bikes working.
      > > > >
      > > > > Rich Wood
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bullis"
      > > > > <workinonitstill@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Howdy, My name is Mike and I am a Hubgearaholic.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I own ten bikes. Two and a half are derailleur geared,
      one
      > is
      > > > > fixed,
      > > > > > and six and a half have IG hubs.
      > > > > > Of the six and a half, one is a 68 AW residing on the
      bike
      > it
      > > > was
      > > > > > born on, a 1968 Raleigh Superbe that sees use nearly every
      > day
      > > > and
      > > > > is
      > > > > > used for touring once in a while. Two of the bikes have AW
      > > hubs
      > > > > > converted to two fixedgear. One bike sports an FW that has
      > > been
      > > > > > converted to three speed fixedgear. My newest bike, an
      Indian
      > > > > built
      > > > > > copy of the venerable Raleigh Tourist, has an AW that I
      > > cobbled
      > > > > > together from my parts bin.
      > > > > > The bike that I have owned the longest, a 1970 Robin Hood
      I
      > > got
      > > > > from
      > > > > > my folks in 1970, now has a 1952 alloy shell AM with a
      triple
      > > > > > cluster. So, this is the morphadite for having both a hub
      > gear
      > > > and
      > > > > a
      > > > > > derailleur.
      > > > > > The last of my IG bikes is a Rivendell Bleriot fitted
      with a
      > > > Sram
      > > > > S7
      > > > > > drumbrake hub.
      > > > > > I also have a number of hubs sitting on the shelf. Two
      > S5/2s,
      > > a
      > > > > > passel of AWs, a number of triple three Shimanos, a TCW
      III,
      > > an
      > > > > > Austrian built Sears, and a Brampton. Plus a boatload of
      > > parts.
      > > > > > Anybody need some TCW internals? Anybody?
      > > > > > I've learned quite a bit about the workings of Sturmey
      hubs
      > > in
      > > > > the
      > > > > > process of converting them to fixed gear, so I'm always
      > > willing
      > > > to
      > > > > > share info and trade parts.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Cheers,
      > > > > > Mike
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Mike Bullis
      Rich-Keep in mind that the stuff is here if you need the odd part.   The triple cluster is indeed aftermarket. I believe it is a Cyclo and my hub is old
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 26, 2008
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        Rich-Keep in mind that the stuff is here if you need the odd part.
         
        The triple cluster is indeed aftermarket. I believe it is a Cyclo and my hub is old enough that it is theaded not clipped. The hub and cluster were in a box of stuff a friend found when he was cleaning out the garage of the house he had just bought. There was some really nice stuff in the box.
         
        Raleigh did offer the Clubman in a 3+2 setup sometime in the 50s or early 60s. I recall seeingan old advert for it. Just don't remember where. 
         
        I unintentionally knocked the wind out of guys sail when I road up along side on my Robin Hood and noticed he had a DualDrive on a new Trek. I pointed out that my setup was nearly sixty years old and did the same thing. I guess he was told that his Dual Drive was the latest and greatest.
         
        Not a bad idea to run the housing as close to the indicator chain as possible. You would only need a chainstay fulcrum clip and some extra housing. My S7 is that way. I use a Simplex friction shifter on my 3 speed fixed gear and that cable is fully exposed. No housing at all.
         
        Good thing I'm riding the Bleriot with the S7 and drum brakes tomorrow. Wet snow predicted tomorrow.
         
        Mike
         


        --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Rich Wood <astronut1001@...> wrote:
        From: Rich Wood <astronut1001@...>
        Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 'nother new member
        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 1:46 AM

        Mike;

        I do not even have it built into a wheel, nor have I chosen a frame
        to mount it in yet, which would determine parts and dimensions
        needed.

        I was thinking of possibly running a full housing to as close to the
        hub indicator chain hookup as possible. Keeps dirt and such out of
        the cable and housing. One thing I like about the Rohloff with
        external shift box and Sram iMotion9 hubs is that they do have cable
        housings running the full distance from hub hookup to shifter.

        I have the Sachs versions of fulcrum clip and pulley that should
        work if they turn out to have the right size clamps for whatever
        frame I get. Also I note that Harris Cyclery looks like they have
        about everything I should need in the way of SA parts when the time
        comes.

        Thanks for the offer but no real immediate plans to activate the SA
        hub and I hate to deprive you of parts that you might need.

        BTW the 3 speed sprocket setup on your AM hub, is that something you
        cobbled up or was it a aftermarket accessory offered for SA hubs at
        one time? Seems to me that I remember reading of a two input
        sprocket arrangement in the past but not a three sprocket cluster.

        Sounds about like the same general idea as the current Sram
        Dualdrive II setup with a 3 speed gear hub and a 8 or 9 speed
        casette cluster. That has always sounded intriguing to me.

        Rich Wood

        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
        <workinonitstill@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Rich, I can help you with MOST of what you need for your AW. I
        have
        > some cables, anchorages, nuts, and anti-rotation washers. I have a
        > number of AM and FW indicator chains but the one for the AW is
        iffy.
        > I'll need to look in the parts bin to be sure. Do you have the
        > fulcrum clip, fulcrum stop, and the cable pully? How long does the
        > cable
        > need to be?
        >
        > Mike
        >
        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
        > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
        > >
        > > Mike;
        > >
        > > I posted the link on Hubstripping a few days ago. Glad you
        caught
        > > it.
        > >
        > > Yep, Fitchel & Sachs from about 1995. One has the old SA style
        > > thumbshifter and the other has a gripshift type shifter. I also
        > > have the F&S bike components catalogs from that era, 95 and 96.
        By
        > > then they had bought out Maillard and some other European bike
        > > components manifacturers too as I recall.
        > >
        > > I understand they started doing 3 speed hubs in about 1904, only
        > two
        > > years after Sturmey Archer. No false neutrals that I have noted
        > > unlike older AW hubs when misadjusted. Gear steps are a hair
        wider
        > > but not noticeable to me in use.
        > >
        > > The Rohloff is very nice IMO. Close ratios and a very wide
        range.
        > > Also the smoothest shifting hub I have personally used. No
        spring
        > > loading on the shift cables so that operation feels identical
        > > shifting up or down. Excellent installation from the
        manufacturer
        > > in the Civia Hyland frame with Rohloff hub specific adjustable
        > > dropouts for chain tension adjustment. Disc brake caliper
        mounting
        > > is on the sliding dropout too so no change in caliper to disc
        > > position when adjusting the chain tension. Well thought out
        > > installation.
        > >
        > > I had a bike with the older version of the S7 hub. Installed in
        an
        > > old Trek steel frame with semi horizontal Campy style dropouts.
        > > Stolen out of my garage. Thankfully I did not have too much
        money
        > > tied up in it.
        > >
        > > My old AW needs some parts. No indicator chain, anti rotation
        > > washers, mounting nuts or cable and cable to indicator chain
        > > connector. I do have an old all netal SA thumb shifter for it.
        > >
        > > Rich Wood
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
        > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hey Rich,
        > > >
        > > > I found the note about the Yahoo group while peruseing the
        > > > Hubstripping site and thought I'd check it out.
        > > >
        > > > Are your preSram Sachs hubs Fitchel & Sachs? How do they
        compare
        > > to
        > > > an AW? I have an NOS F&S that I forgot I had. No shifter or
        > > indicator
        > > > chain, just the hub and cog.
        > > >
        > > > I'm also curious about the Rohloff. I gave one a passing
        thought
        > > > when I was having the Rivendell built but as the build cost
        was
        > > > already at three grand, a passing thought was all it was.
        > > >
        > > > As to the fixed gear conversion that I do to SA hubs, I use
        my
        > > own
        > > > version of the "Reversed Pawl" method that can be found here,
        > > > http://www.users. globalnet. co.uk/~hadland/ gear.html
        > > > It is fairly straight forward and does not require any
        tooling
        > > that
        > > > cannot be purchased at a local hardware store. I can usually
        turn
        > > one
        > > > around in less than two hours.
        > > >
        > > > The drawback is that without a specially machined and
        hardened
        > > > sliding clutch, there is quite a bit of backlash. However, if
        you
        > > > don't trackstand or skipstop(I can't do either), it isn't much
        of
        > > an
        > > > issue. With the clutch, there is more slop from the cog/driver
        > > > interface than from the hub.
        > > >
        > > > As for riding impressions, it is just like riding a fixed
        gear
        > > that
        > > > has a 25% reduction low gear for climbing and a neutral for
        > > stealth
        > > > coasting downhill. My first hub, which has a clutch made from
        > heat
        > > > treated A2 steel, has about 3500 miles on it and has just
        started
        > > > showing some increased backlash. Time to open it up and see
        what
        > > is
        > > > starting to wear out; the clutch, the driver, or the pins.
        > > >
        > > > I have built nine hubs so far. I have three, four are
        scattered
        > > > around the US and one is in Iceland. That's eight. The ninth
        one
        > > is
        > > > being donated to a charity raffle.
        > > >
        > > > I'll get the process written out and post it in a few days.
        > > >
        > > > Cheers
        > > >
        > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
        > > > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Mike;
        > > > >
        > > > > Welcome to the group. Sounds like members can use your
        > > > experience.
        > > > > How did you find out about us? If a link from another site
        > then
        > > I
        > > > > would like to know about it as I have requested that links
        be
        > > > placed
        > > > > on what I thought would be some appropriate web sites. This
        is
        > > a
        > > > > new group and I am trying to grow it to increase the amount
        of
        > > > > expertise available and as a place for hubgearaholics to
        gather.
        > > > >
        > > > > Please look over the Files and Links. Additions,
        corrections
        > or
        > > > > just telling me I am full of BS, and suggesting corrections,
        > all
        > > > > appreciated.
        > > > >
        > > > > My own gear hub bikes include two with pre Sram Sachs 3
        speeds,
        > > a
        > > > > Swobo Dixon with a Sram iMotion9 and a just acquired Civia
        > > Hyland
        > > > > with a Rohloff hub. I have a 1954 AW hub that needs spoking
        up
        > > and
        > > > > putting into service too.
        > > > >
        > > > > One of the 3 speeds is in a Japanese Duracycle originally
        fixed
        > > > gear
        > > > > bike from about 12 or so years ago. Told they were made as
        > road
        > > > > practice bikes for Kirin riders in Japan at the time. It
        has
        > > > mounts
        > > > > for road brakes.
        > > > >
        > > > > Derilleur bikes are a old Colnago Super record from about
        1980
        > > as
        > > > > near as I can figure and a Univega 21 speed.
        > > > >
        > > > > Seeing as how you have done the AW to 2 speed fixed
        conversion
        > > how
        > > > > about posting which set of directions you used. I have
        noted
        > > about
        > > > > three procedures on the web. Also impressions of riding and
        > > info
        > > > on
        > > > > how much backlash in the converted hubs etc. Also feel free
        to
        > > > post
        > > > > pictures of some of your bikes.
        > > > >
        > > > > An Australian member of the group, Roger Brandon, has you
        beat
        > > with
        > > > > about 10 or so gear hub bikes working.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rich Wood
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
        > > > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Howdy, My name is Mike and I am a Hubgearaholic.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I own ten bikes. Two and a half are derailleur geared,
        one
        > is
        > > > > fixed,
        > > > > > and six and a half have IG hubs.
        > > > > > Of the six and a half, one is a 68 AW residing on the
        bike
        > it
        > > > was
        > > > > > born on, a 1968 Raleigh Superbe that sees use nearly every
        > day
        > > > and
        > > > > is
        > > > > > used for touring once in a while. Two of the bikes have AW
        > > hubs
        > > > > > converted to two fixedgear. One bike sports an FW that has
        > > been
        > > > > > converted to three speed fixedgear. My newest bike, an
        Indian
        > > > > built
        > > > > > copy of the venerable Raleigh Tourist, has an AW that I
        > > cobbled
        > > > > > together from my parts bin.
        > > > > > The bike that I have owned the longest, a 1970 Robin Hood
        I
        > > got
        > > > > from
        > > > > > my folks in 1970, now has a 1952 alloy shell AM with a
        triple
        > > > > > cluster. So, this is the morphadite for having both a hub
        > gear
        > > > and
        > > > > a
        > > > > > derailleur.
        > > > > > The last of my IG bikes is a Rivendell Bleriot fitted
        with a
        > > > Sram
        > > > > S7
        > > > > > drumbrake hub.
        > > > > > I also have a number of hubs sitting on the shelf. Two
        > S5/2s,
        > > a
        > > > > > passel of AWs, a number of triple three Shimanos, a TCW
        III,
        > > an
        > > > > > Austrian built Sears, and a Brampton. Plus a boatload of
        > > parts.
        > > > > > Anybody need some TCW internals? Anybody?
        > > > > > I've learned quite a bit about the workings of Sturmey
        hubs
        > > in
        > > > > the
        > > > > > process of converting them to fixed gear, so I'm always
        > > willing
        > > > to
        > > > > > share info and trade parts.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Cheers,
        > > > > > Mike
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >


      • Rich Wood
        Mike; The Dualdrive is not that new. A 7 speed casette version, 21 speeds total, is shown in my 1995 Sachs catalog. Not sure of actual availability in the
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 26, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Mike;

          The Dualdrive is not that new. A 7 speed casette version, 21 speeds
          total, is shown in my 1995 Sachs catalog. Not sure of actual
          availability in the U.S. however. With the threaded connector it
          sounds like your 3 speed sprocket setup may be pre WWII or
          immediately post war.

          Virtually every new idea in bicycles, except carbon fiber
          composites, has a related patent from the 1875 through 1910 period.
          The first Aluminum frames were tried before 1900. The first
          derailleurs date from the pre WWI era. Seems to me the first
          attempt at indexed shifting for derailleurs was a johnny come lately
          from about 1930! Also many and varied suspension attempts predated
          the introduction of the pneumatic tire in 1888 or so.

          In the late 1890s, according to one bike history I have read, the
          patent office had two buildings, one for bicycle related patents and
          the other for the rest.

          The Rohloff chain tensioner, which works like a fixed horizontal
          position rear derailleur, looks like it could be used to allow the
          use of a dual chainring crankset and a front derailleur with the
          Rohloff hub. Just have to stay within the recommended hub input
          ratio to have a dual range gear hub setup. Could also probably
          adjust a rear derailleur in the proper horizontal position to do the
          same thing as the Rohloff chain tensioner. Could give you a dual
          range 7 speed hub to extend your highs or lows as desired. Does
          require a bike with a rear derailleur mounting on the dropout
          however. The Surly Karate Monkey would be a candidate frame.

          Rich Wood


          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bullis
          <workinonitstill@...> wrote:
          >
          > Rich-Keep in mind that the stuff is here if you need the odd part.
          >  
          > The triple cluster is indeed aftermarket. I believe it is a Cyclo
          and my hub is old enough that it is theaded not clipped. The hub and
          cluster were in a box of stuff a friend found when he was cleaning
          out the garage of the house he had just bought. There was some
          really nice stuff in the box.
          >  
          > Raleigh did offer the Clubman in a 3+2 setup sometime in the 50s
          or early 60s. I recall seeingan old advert for it. Just don't
          remember where. 
          >  
          > I unintentionally knocked the wind out of guys sail when I road up
          along side on my Robin Hood and noticed he had a DualDrive on a new
          Trek. I pointed out that my setup was nearly sixty years old and did
          the same thing. I guess he was told that his Dual Drive was the
          latest and greatest.
          >  
          > Not a bad idea to run the housing as close to the indicator chain
          as possible. You would only need a chainstay fulcrum clip and some
          extra housing. My S7 is that way. I use a Simplex friction shifter
          on my 3 speed fixed gear and that cable is fully exposed. No housing
          at all.
          >  
          > Good thing I'm riding the Bleriot with the S7 and drum brakes
          tomorrow. Wet snow predicted tomorrow.
          >  
          > Mike
          >  
          >
          >
          > --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Rich Wood <astronut1001@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Rich Wood <astronut1001@...>
          > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 'nother new member
          > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 1:46 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Mike;
          >
          > I do not even have it built into a wheel, nor have I chosen a
          frame
          > to mount it in yet, which would determine parts and dimensions
          > needed.
          >
          > I was thinking of possibly running a full housing to as close to
          the
          > hub indicator chain hookup as possible. Keeps dirt and such out of
          > the cable and housing. One thing I like about the Rohloff with
          > external shift box and Sram iMotion9 hubs is that they do have
          cable
          > housings running the full distance from hub hookup to shifter.
          >
          > I have the Sachs versions of fulcrum clip and pulley that should
          > work if they turn out to have the right size clamps for whatever
          > frame I get. Also I note that Harris Cyclery looks like they have
          > about everything I should need in the way of SA parts when the
          time
          > comes.
          >
          > Thanks for the offer but no real immediate plans to activate the
          SA
          > hub and I hate to deprive you of parts that you might need.
          >
          > BTW the 3 speed sprocket setup on your AM hub, is that something
          you
          > cobbled up or was it a aftermarket accessory offered for SA hubs
          at
          > one time? Seems to me that I remember reading of a two input
          > sprocket arrangement in the past but not a three sprocket cluster.
          >
          > Sounds about like the same general idea as the current Sram
          > Dualdrive II setup with a 3 speed gear hub and a 8 or 9 speed
          > casette cluster. That has always sounded intriguing to me.
          >
          > Rich Wood
          >
          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
          > <workinonitstill@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Rich, I can help you with MOST of what you need for your AW. I
          > have
          > > some cables, anchorages, nuts, and anti-rotation washers. I have
          a
          > > number of AM and FW indicator chains but the one for the AW is
          > iffy.
          > > I'll need to look in the parts bin to be sure. Do you have the
          > > fulcrum clip, fulcrum stop, and the cable pully? How long does
          the
          > > cable
          > > need to be?
          > >
          > > Mike
          > >
          > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
          > > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Mike;
          > > >
          > > > I posted the link on Hubstripping a few days ago. Glad you
          > caught
          > > > it.
          > > >
          > > > Yep, Fitchel & Sachs from about 1995. One has the old SA style
          > > > thumbshifter and the other has a gripshift type shifter. I
          also
          > > > have the F&S bike components catalogs from that era, 95 and
          96.
          > By
          > > > then they had bought out Maillard and some other European bike
          > > > components manifacturers too as I recall.
          > > >
          > > > I understand they started doing 3 speed hubs in about 1904,
          only
          > > two
          > > > years after Sturmey Archer. No false neutrals that I have
          noted
          > > > unlike older AW hubs when misadjusted. Gear steps are a hair
          > wider
          > > > but not noticeable to me in use.
          > > >
          > > > The Rohloff is very nice IMO. Close ratios and a very wide
          > range.
          > > > Also the smoothest shifting hub I have personally used. No
          > spring
          > > > loading on the shift cables so that operation feels identical
          > > > shifting up or down. Excellent installation from the
          > manufacturer
          > > > in the Civia Hyland frame with Rohloff hub specific adjustable
          > > > dropouts for chain tension adjustment. Disc brake caliper
          > mounting
          > > > is on the sliding dropout too so no change in caliper to disc
          > > > position when adjusting the chain tension. Well thought out
          > > > installation.
          > > >
          > > > I had a bike with the older version of the S7 hub. Installed
          in
          > an
          > > > old Trek steel frame with semi horizontal Campy style
          dropouts.
          > > > Stolen out of my garage. Thankfully I did not have too much
          > money
          > > > tied up in it.
          > > >
          > > > My old AW needs some parts. No indicator chain, anti rotation
          > > > washers, mounting nuts or cable and cable to indicator chain
          > > > connector. I do have an old all netal SA thumb shifter for it.
          > > >
          > > > Rich Wood
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
          > > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hey Rich,
          > > > >
          > > > > I found the note about the Yahoo group while peruseing the
          > > > > Hubstripping site and thought I'd check it out.
          > > > >
          > > > > Are your preSram Sachs hubs Fitchel & Sachs? How do they
          > compare
          > > > to
          > > > > an AW? I have an NOS F&S that I forgot I had. No shifter or
          > > > indicator
          > > > > chain, just the hub and cog.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm also curious about the Rohloff. I gave one a passing
          > thought
          > > > > when I was having the Rivendell built but as the build cost
          > was
          > > > > already at three grand, a passing thought was all it was.
          > > > >
          > > > > As to the fixed gear conversion that I do to SA hubs, I use
          > my
          > > > own
          > > > > version of the "Reversed Pawl" method that can be found
          here,
          > > > > http://www.users globalnet. co.uk/~hadland/ gear.html
          > > > > It is fairly straight forward and does not require any
          > tooling
          > > > that
          > > > > cannot be purchased at a local hardware store. I can usually
          > turn
          > > > one
          > > > > around in less than two hours.
          > > > >
          > > > > The drawback is that without a specially machined and
          > hardened
          > > > > sliding clutch, there is quite a bit of backlash. However,
          if
          > you
          > > > > don't trackstand or skipstop(I can't do either), it isn't
          much
          > of
          > > > an
          > > > > issue. With the clutch, there is more slop from the
          cog/driver
          > > > > interface than from the hub.
          > > > >
          > > > > As for riding impressions, it is just like riding a fixed
          > gear
          > > > that
          > > > > has a 25% reduction low gear for climbing and a neutral for
          > > > stealth
          > > > > coasting downhill. My first hub, which has a clutch made
          from
          > > heat
          > > > > treated A2 steel, has about 3500 miles on it and has just
          > started
          > > > > showing some increased backlash. Time to open it up and see
          > what
          > > > is
          > > > > starting to wear out; the clutch, the driver, or the pins.
          > > > >
          > > > > I have built nine hubs so far. I have three, four are
          > scattered
          > > > > around the US and one is in Iceland. That's eight. The ninth
          > one
          > > > is
          > > > > being donated to a charity raffle.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'll get the process written out and post it in a few days.
          > > > >
          > > > > Cheers
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
          > > > > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Mike;
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Welcome to the group. Sounds like members can use your
          > > > > experience.
          > > > > > How did you find out about us? If a link from another site
          > > then
          > > > I
          > > > > > would like to know about it as I have requested that links
          > be
          > > > > placed
          > > > > > on what I thought would be some appropriate web sites.
          This
          > is
          > > > a
          > > > > > new group and I am trying to grow it to increase the
          amount
          > of
          > > > > > expertise available and as a place for hubgearaholics to
          > gather.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Please look over the Files and Links. Additions,
          > corrections
          > > or
          > > > > > just telling me I am full of BS, and suggesting
          corrections,
          > > all
          > > > > > appreciated.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > My own gear hub bikes include two with pre Sram Sachs 3
          > speeds,
          > > > a
          > > > > > Swobo Dixon with a Sram iMotion9 and a just acquired Civia
          > > > Hyland
          > > > > > with a Rohloff hub. I have a 1954 AW hub that needs
          spoking
          > up
          > > > and
          > > > > > putting into service too.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > One of the 3 speeds is in a Japanese Duracycle originally
          > fixed
          > > > > gear
          > > > > > bike from about 12 or so years ago. Told they were made as
          > > road
          > > > > > practice bikes for Kirin riders in Japan at the time. It
          > has
          > > > > mounts
          > > > > > for road brakes.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Derilleur bikes are a old Colnago Super record from about
          > 1980
          > > > as
          > > > > > near as I can figure and a Univega 21 speed.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Seeing as how you have done the AW to 2 speed fixed
          > conversion
          > > > how
          > > > > > about posting which set of directions you used. I have
          > noted
          > > > about
          > > > > > three procedures on the web. Also impressions of riding
          and
          > > > info
          > > > > on
          > > > > > how much backlash in the converted hubs etc. Also feel
          free
          > to
          > > > > post
          > > > > > pictures of some of your bikes.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > An Australian member of the group, Roger Brandon, has you
          > beat
          > > > with
          > > > > > about 10 or so gear hub bikes working.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Rich Wood
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
          > > > > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Howdy, My name is Mike and I am a Hubgearaholic.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I own ten bikes. Two and a half are derailleur geared,
          > one
          > > is
          > > > > > fixed,
          > > > > > > and six and a half have IG hubs.
          > > > > > > Of the six and a half, one is a 68 AW residing on the
          > bike
          > > it
          > > > > was
          > > > > > > born on, a 1968 Raleigh Superbe that sees use nearly
          every
          > > day
          > > > > and
          > > > > > is
          > > > > > > used for touring once in a while. Two of the bikes have
          AW
          > > > hubs
          > > > > > > converted to two fixedgear. One bike sports an FW that
          has
          > > > been
          > > > > > > converted to three speed fixedgear. My newest bike, an
          > Indian
          > > > > > built
          > > > > > > copy of the venerable Raleigh Tourist, has an AW that I
          > > > cobbled
          > > > > > > together from my parts bin.
          > > > > > > The bike that I have owned the longest, a 1970 Robin
          Hood
          > I
          > > > got
          > > > > > from
          > > > > > > my folks in 1970, now has a 1952 alloy shell AM with a
          > triple
          > > > > > > cluster. So, this is the morphadite for having both a
          hub
          > > gear
          > > > > and
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > derailleur.
          > > > > > > The last of my IG bikes is a Rivendell Bleriot fitted
          > with a
          > > > > Sram
          > > > > > S7
          > > > > > > drumbrake hub.
          > > > > > > I also have a number of hubs sitting on the shelf. Two
          > > S5/2s,
          > > > a
          > > > > > > passel of AWs, a number of triple three Shimanos, a TCW
          > III,
          > > > an
          > > > > > > Austrian built Sears, and a Brampton. Plus a boatload of
          > > > parts.
          > > > > > > Anybody need some TCW internals? Anybody?
          > > > > > > I've learned quite a bit about the workings of Sturmey
          > hubs
          > > > in
          > > > > > the
          > > > > > > process of converting them to fixed gear, so I'm always
          > > > willing
          > > > > to
          > > > > > > share info and trade parts.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Cheers,
          > > > > > > Mike
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Mike Bullis
          Rich-I ve added a pic to my album showing the Sram S7 mounted on my Bleriot. On it, I used a Surly Singleator as a chain tensioner because the vertical dropout
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 27, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Rich-I've added a pic to my album showing the Sram S7 mounted on my
            Bleriot. On it, I used a Surly Singleator as a chain tensioner
            because the vertical dropout made getting proper chain tension
            impossible.
            I have considered throwing a double up front to reduce the jump
            twixt the gears, 5th being a tad too low and 6th being a tad too
            high. However, losing a little weight on my part would probably make
            that unnecessary.;)
            mike

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
            <astronut1001@...> wrote:
            >
            > Mike;
            >
            > The Dualdrive is not that new. A 7 speed casette version, 21
            speeds
            > total, is shown in my 1995 Sachs catalog. Not sure of actual
            > availability in the U.S. however. With the threaded connector it
            > sounds like your 3 speed sprocket setup may be pre WWII or
            > immediately post war.
            >
            > Virtually every new idea in bicycles, except carbon fiber
            > composites, has a related patent from the 1875 through 1910
            period.
            > The first Aluminum frames were tried before 1900. The first
            > derailleurs date from the pre WWI era. Seems to me the first
            > attempt at indexed shifting for derailleurs was a johnny come
            lately
            > from about 1930! Also many and varied suspension attempts predated
            > the introduction of the pneumatic tire in 1888 or so.
            >
            > In the late 1890s, according to one bike history I have read, the
            > patent office had two buildings, one for bicycle related patents
            and
            > the other for the rest.
            >
            > The Rohloff chain tensioner, which works like a fixed horizontal
            > position rear derailleur, looks like it could be used to allow the
            > use of a dual chainring crankset and a front derailleur with the
            > Rohloff hub. Just have to stay within the recommended hub input
            > ratio to have a dual range gear hub setup. Could also probably
            > adjust a rear derailleur in the proper horizontal position to do
            the
            > same thing as the Rohloff chain tensioner. Could give you a dual
            > range 7 speed hub to extend your highs or lows as desired. Does
            > require a bike with a rear derailleur mounting on the dropout
            > however. The Surly Karate Monkey would be a candidate frame.
            >
            > Rich Wood
            >
            >
            > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bullis
            > <workinonitstill@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Rich-Keep in mind that the stuff is here if you need the odd part.
            > >  
            > > The triple cluster is indeed aftermarket. I believe it is a Cyclo
            > and my hub is old enough that it is theaded not clipped. The hub
            and
            > cluster were in a box of stuff a friend found when he was cleaning
            > out the garage of the house he had just bought. There was some
            > really nice stuff in the box.
            > >  
            > > Raleigh did offer the Clubman in a 3+2 setup sometime in the 50s
            > or early 60s. I recall seeingan old advert for it. Just don't
            > remember where. 
            > >  
            > > I unintentionally knocked the wind out of guys sail when I road
            up
            > along side on my Robin Hood and noticed he had a DualDrive on a new
            > Trek. I pointed out that my setup was nearly sixty years old and
            did
            > the same thing. I guess he was told that his Dual Drive was the
            > latest and greatest.
            > >  
            > > Not a bad idea to run the housing as close to the indicator chain
            > as possible. You would only need a chainstay fulcrum clip and some
            > extra housing. My S7 is that way. I use a Simplex friction shifter
            > on my 3 speed fixed gear and that cable is fully exposed. No
            housing
            > at all.
            > >  
            > > Good thing I'm riding the Bleriot with the S7 and drum brakes
            > tomorrow. Wet snow predicted tomorrow.
            > >  
            > > Mike
            > >  
            > >
            > >
            > > --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Rich Wood <astronut1001@> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: Rich Wood <astronut1001@>
            > > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 'nother new member
            > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 1:46 AM
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Mike;
            > >
            > > I do not even have it built into a wheel, nor have I chosen a
            > frame
            > > to mount it in yet, which would determine parts and dimensions
            > > needed.
            > >
            > > I was thinking of possibly running a full housing to as close to
            > the
            > > hub indicator chain hookup as possible. Keeps dirt and such out
            of
            > > the cable and housing. One thing I like about the Rohloff with
            > > external shift box and Sram iMotion9 hubs is that they do have
            > cable
            > > housings running the full distance from hub hookup to shifter.
            > >
            > > I have the Sachs versions of fulcrum clip and pulley that should
            > > work if they turn out to have the right size clamps for whatever
            > > frame I get. Also I note that Harris Cyclery looks like they have
            > > about everything I should need in the way of SA parts when the
            > time
            > > comes.
            > >
            > > Thanks for the offer but no real immediate plans to activate the
            > SA
            > > hub and I hate to deprive you of parts that you might need.
            > >
            > > BTW the 3 speed sprocket setup on your AM hub, is that something
            > you
            > > cobbled up or was it a aftermarket accessory offered for SA hubs
            > at
            > > one time? Seems to me that I remember reading of a two input
            > > sprocket arrangement in the past but not a three sprocket cluster.
            > >
            > > Sounds about like the same general idea as the current Sram
            > > Dualdrive II setup with a 3 speed gear hub and a 8 or 9 speed
            > > casette cluster. That has always sounded intriguing to me.
            > >
            > > Rich Wood
            > >
            > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
            > > <workinonitstill@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Rich, I can help you with MOST of what you need for your AW. I
            > > have
            > > > some cables, anchorages, nuts, and anti-rotation washers. I
            have
            > a
            > > > number of AM and FW indicator chains but the one for the AW is
            > > iffy.
            > > > I'll need to look in the parts bin to be sure. Do you have the
            > > > fulcrum clip, fulcrum stop, and the cable pully? How long does
            > the
            > > > cable
            > > > need to be?
            > > >
            > > > Mike
            > > >
            > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
            > > > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Mike;
            > > > >
            > > > > I posted the link on Hubstripping a few days ago. Glad you
            > > caught
            > > > > it.
            > > > >
            > > > > Yep, Fitchel & Sachs from about 1995. One has the old SA
            style
            > > > > thumbshifter and the other has a gripshift type shifter. I
            > also
            > > > > have the F&S bike components catalogs from that era, 95 and
            > 96.
            > > By
            > > > > then they had bought out Maillard and some other European
            bike
            > > > > components manifacturers too as I recall.
            > > > >
            > > > > I understand they started doing 3 speed hubs in about 1904,
            > only
            > > > two
            > > > > years after Sturmey Archer. No false neutrals that I have
            > noted
            > > > > unlike older AW hubs when misadjusted. Gear steps are a hair
            > > wider
            > > > > but not noticeable to me in use.
            > > > >
            > > > > The Rohloff is very nice IMO. Close ratios and a very wide
            > > range.
            > > > > Also the smoothest shifting hub I have personally used. No
            > > spring
            > > > > loading on the shift cables so that operation feels identical
            > > > > shifting up or down. Excellent installation from the
            > > manufacturer
            > > > > in the Civia Hyland frame with Rohloff hub specific
            adjustable
            > > > > dropouts for chain tension adjustment. Disc brake caliper
            > > mounting
            > > > > is on the sliding dropout too so no change in caliper to disc
            > > > > position when adjusting the chain tension. Well thought out
            > > > > installation.
            > > > >
            > > > > I had a bike with the older version of the S7 hub. Installed
            > in
            > > an
            > > > > old Trek steel frame with semi horizontal Campy style
            > dropouts.
            > > > > Stolen out of my garage. Thankfully I did not have too much
            > > money
            > > > > tied up in it.
            > > > >
            > > > > My old AW needs some parts. No indicator chain, anti rotation
            > > > > washers, mounting nuts or cable and cable to indicator chain
            > > > > connector. I do have an old all netal SA thumb shifter for it.
            > > > >
            > > > > Rich Wood
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
            > > > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hey Rich,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I found the note about the Yahoo group while peruseing the
            > > > > > Hubstripping site and thought I'd check it out.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Are your preSram Sachs hubs Fitchel & Sachs? How do they
            > > compare
            > > > > to
            > > > > > an AW? I have an NOS F&S that I forgot I had. No shifter or
            > > > > indicator
            > > > > > chain, just the hub and cog.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm also curious about the Rohloff. I gave one a passing
            > > thought
            > > > > > when I was having the Rivendell built but as the build cost
            > > was
            > > > > > already at three grand, a passing thought was all it was.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > As to the fixed gear conversion that I do to SA hubs, I use
            > > my
            > > > > own
            > > > > > version of the "Reversed Pawl" method that can be found
            > here,
            > > > > > http://www.users globalnet. co.uk/~hadland/ gear.html
            > > > > > It is fairly straight forward and does not require any
            > > tooling
            > > > > that
            > > > > > cannot be purchased at a local hardware store. I can
            usually
            > > turn
            > > > > one
            > > > > > around in less than two hours.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The drawback is that without a specially machined and
            > > hardened
            > > > > > sliding clutch, there is quite a bit of backlash. However,
            > if
            > > you
            > > > > > don't trackstand or skipstop(I can't do either), it isn't
            > much
            > > of
            > > > > an
            > > > > > issue. With the clutch, there is more slop from the
            > cog/driver
            > > > > > interface than from the hub.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > As for riding impressions, it is just like riding a fixed
            > > gear
            > > > > that
            > > > > > has a 25% reduction low gear for climbing and a neutral for
            > > > > stealth
            > > > > > coasting downhill. My first hub, which has a clutch made
            > from
            > > > heat
            > > > > > treated A2 steel, has about 3500 miles on it and has just
            > > started
            > > > > > showing some increased backlash. Time to open it up and see
            > > what
            > > > > is
            > > > > > starting to wear out; the clutch, the driver, or the pins.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I have built nine hubs so far. I have three, four are
            > > scattered
            > > > > > around the US and one is in Iceland. That's eight. The
            ninth
            > > one
            > > > > is
            > > > > > being donated to a charity raffle.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'll get the process written out and post it in a few days.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Cheers
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
            > > > > > <astronut1001@ > wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Mike;
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Welcome to the group. Sounds like members can use your
            > > > > > experience.
            > > > > > > How did you find out about us? If a link from another
            site
            > > > then
            > > > > I
            > > > > > > would like to know about it as I have requested that
            links
            > > be
            > > > > > placed
            > > > > > > on what I thought would be some appropriate web sites.
            > This
            > > is
            > > > > a
            > > > > > > new group and I am trying to grow it to increase the
            > amount
            > > of
            > > > > > > expertise available and as a place for hubgearaholics to
            > > gather.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Please look over the Files and Links. Additions,
            > > corrections
            > > > or
            > > > > > > just telling me I am full of BS, and suggesting
            > corrections,
            > > > all
            > > > > > > appreciated.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > My own gear hub bikes include two with pre Sram Sachs 3
            > > speeds,
            > > > > a
            > > > > > > Swobo Dixon with a Sram iMotion9 and a just acquired
            Civia
            > > > > Hyland
            > > > > > > with a Rohloff hub. I have a 1954 AW hub that needs
            > spoking
            > > up
            > > > > and
            > > > > > > putting into service too.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > One of the 3 speeds is in a Japanese Duracycle originally
            > > fixed
            > > > > > gear
            > > > > > > bike from about 12 or so years ago. Told they were made
            as
            > > > road
            > > > > > > practice bikes for Kirin riders in Japan at the time. It
            > > has
            > > > > > mounts
            > > > > > > for road brakes.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Derilleur bikes are a old Colnago Super record from about
            > > 1980
            > > > > as
            > > > > > > near as I can figure and a Univega 21 speed.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Seeing as how you have done the AW to 2 speed fixed
            > > conversion
            > > > > how
            > > > > > > about posting which set of directions you used. I have
            > > noted
            > > > > about
            > > > > > > three procedures on the web. Also impressions of riding
            > and
            > > > > info
            > > > > > on
            > > > > > > how much backlash in the converted hubs etc. Also feel
            > free
            > > to
            > > > > > post
            > > > > > > pictures of some of your bikes.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > An Australian member of the group, Roger Brandon, has you
            > > beat
            > > > > with
            > > > > > > about 10 or so gear hub bikes working.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Rich Wood
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
            > > > > > > <workinonitstill@ > wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Howdy, My name is Mike and I am a Hubgearaholic.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I own ten bikes. Two and a half are derailleur geared,
            > > one
            > > > is
            > > > > > > fixed,
            > > > > > > > and six and a half have IG hubs.
            > > > > > > > Of the six and a half, one is a 68 AW residing on the
            > > bike
            > > > it
            > > > > > was
            > > > > > > > born on, a 1968 Raleigh Superbe that sees use nearly
            > every
            > > > day
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > used for touring once in a while. Two of the bikes have
            > AW
            > > > > hubs
            > > > > > > > converted to two fixedgear. One bike sports an FW that
            > has
            > > > > been
            > > > > > > > converted to three speed fixedgear. My newest bike, an
            > > Indian
            > > > > > > built
            > > > > > > > copy of the venerable Raleigh Tourist, has an AW that I
            > > > > cobbled
            > > > > > > > together from my parts bin.
            > > > > > > > The bike that I have owned the longest, a 1970 Robin
            > Hood
            > > I
            > > > > got
            > > > > > > from
            > > > > > > > my folks in 1970, now has a 1952 alloy shell AM with a
            > > triple
            > > > > > > > cluster. So, this is the morphadite for having both a
            > hub
            > > > gear
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > > a
            > > > > > > > derailleur.
            > > > > > > > The last of my IG bikes is a Rivendell Bleriot fitted
            > > with a
            > > > > > Sram
            > > > > > > S7
            > > > > > > > drumbrake hub.
            > > > > > > > I also have a number of hubs sitting on the shelf. Two
            > > > S5/2s,
            > > > > a
            > > > > > > > passel of AWs, a number of triple three Shimanos, a TCW
            > > III,
            > > > > an
            > > > > > > > Austrian built Sears, and a Brampton. Plus a boatload
            of
            > > > > parts.
            > > > > > > > Anybody need some TCW internals? Anybody?
            > > > > > > > I've learned quite a bit about the workings of Sturmey
            > > hubs
            > > > > in
            > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > process of converting them to fixed gear, so I'm always
            > > > > willing
            > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > share info and trade parts.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Cheers,
            > > > > > > > Mike
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Rich Wood
            Mike; I feel that few current frames other than the few with track style rear opening dropouts, or those with the old style of semi horizontal dropouts that
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 27, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Mike;

              I feel that few current frames other than the few with track style
              rear opening dropouts, or those with the old style of semi horizontal
              dropouts that used to be used on most road bikes, are truly suitable
              for gear hubs. I have put together a file in the Files section with
              my thoughts on the subject. The title is "Building a geared hub bike".

              Having to add a chain tensioner seems like a PITA and has to add some
              drag to the drivetrain.

              The Swobo Dixon uses rear opening horizontal dropouts and the Civia
              Hyland has Rohloff specific horizontally adjustable dropouts for chain
              tensioning. Civia also makes a set of dropouts for the same frame
              intended for other gear hubs. The dropouts on the Civia frame are
              interchangeable bolt on items.

              BTW what shifter do you have on the 7 speed hub? From one of your
              photos it looks like you have adapted the twist shift to fit the end
              of your drop bars. I believe I have a complete thumbshifter with
              cable box for the earlier version of that hub, the one that was on my
              stolen bike. Not sure if it would fit the current design hub or not.
              As far as gearing you could change the hub input sprocket to modify
              the gearing to what you want. Either Shimano or Sram sprockets should
              fit and are listed in quite a range of sizes.

              Rich Wood


              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bullis"
              <workinonitstill@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rich-I've added a pic to my album showing the Sram S7 mounted on my
              > Bleriot. On it, I used a Surly Singleator as a chain tensioner
              > because the vertical dropout made getting proper chain tension
              > impossible.
              > I have considered throwing a double up front to reduce the jump
              > twixt the gears, 5th being a tad too low and 6th being a tad too
              > high. However, losing a little weight on my part would probably make
              > that unnecessary.;)
              > mike
              >
            • Mike Bullis
              Rich-D accord on your opinion re:few decent frames for IG hubs.  When I was planning the Bleriot, I forgot to consider that the frame had verticle drop outs
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 28, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Rich-D'accord on your opinion re:few decent frames for IG hubs.
                 When I was planning the Bleriot, I forgot to consider that the frame had verticle drop outs and the Singleator is my penace. It is a bit of a kludge but it works. Contrary to it being a PITA, it was a godsend after spending a week trying to find the 'magic ratio' and having no luck. I'm more concerned about having the first flat on this bike because of the drumbrakes. As for added drag, there is more from the SA X-FDD hub up front than from the tensioner.
                 
                I have the stock twist shifter and it is indeed mounted to the righthand drop. Sheldon Brown mentioned the Hubbub, which is an adaptor to mount a flatbar shifter on a dropbar. I priced one and damn near choked at the cost. So, me and a scrap chunk of 6005 aluminum spent a half hour at the lathe and I made one for myself. An old barend shifter gave up its' clamping mechanism.
                 It took a little time to get the hang of it but I've gotten used to most of its' idiosyncrocies. I would be happier if I could upshift by twisting the shifter counter clockwise instead of clockwise, but whaddayagonnado. Tried mounting the shifter backwards but the cable was in the way of my wrist. The few times I've shifted into 7th takes quite a bit of effort to overcome the internal spring. Similar to shifting my 3 speed fixed into low.
                 
                 I've considered swapping the rear cog but I like the 31/100 range. I will stick with it for awhile longer. Might opt for shorter cranks. I spec'd 165s but they weren't available so I went with 170s.
                 
                Mike

                --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Rich Wood <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                From: Rich Wood <astronut1001@...>
                Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 'nother new member
                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 12:26 AM

                Mike;

                I feel that few current frames other than the few with track style
                rear opening dropouts, or those with the old style of semi horizontal
                dropouts that used to be used on most road bikes, are truly suitable
                for gear hubs. I have put together a file in the Files section with
                my thoughts on the subject. The title is "Building a geared hub bike".

                Having to add a chain tensioner seems like a PITA and has to add some
                drag to the drivetrain.

                The Swobo Dixon uses rear opening horizontal dropouts and the Civia
                Hyland has Rohloff specific horizontally adjustable dropouts for chain
                tensioning. Civia also makes a set of dropouts for the same frame
                intended for other gear hubs. The dropouts on the Civia frame are
                interchangeable bolt on items.

                BTW what shifter do you have on the 7 speed hub? From one of your
                photos it looks like you have adapted the twist shift to fit the end
                of your drop bars. I believe I have a complete thumbshifter with
                cable box for the earlier version of that hub, the one that was on my
                stolen bike. Not sure if it would fit the current design hub or not.
                As far as gearing you could change the hub input sprocket to modify
                the gearing to what you want. Either Shimano or Sram sprockets should
                fit and are listed in quite a range of sizes.

                Rich Wood

                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Bullis"
                <workinonitstill@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Rich-I've added a pic to my album showing the Sram S7 mounted on my
                > Bleriot. On it, I used a Surly Singleator as a chain tensioner
                > because the vertical dropout made getting proper chain tension
                > impossible.
                > I have considered throwing a double up front to reduce the jump
                > twixt the gears, 5th being a tad too low and 6th being a tad too
                > high. However, losing a little weight on my part would probably make
                > that unnecessary. ;)
                > mike
                >


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