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Re: Changing rear drop-out distance

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  • k3eax
    Neil, these are good questions. And in reply I must say that I ve experienced no problems with my approach. Perhaps in installing the hub-gear equiped rear
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 18, 2012
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      Neil, these are good questions. And in reply I must say that I've experienced no problems with my approach. Perhaps in installing the hub-gear equiped rear wheel the drop-outs are forced to assume a parallel position? The rear wheel when check after installation runs true to the bike's center line.

      Al


      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@...> wrote:
      >
      > This sounds like a simple method, but how do you know whether the two stays
      > move evenly and whether the dropouts are still parallel to the midplane of
      > the bike with this method? I see this method having the potential to
      > result in the wheel being not properly aligned.
      >
      > We
    • Rick Paulos
      That method does not work to align the frame for good. Steel frames have enough spring in them to straighten out under axle nut pressure but that s not enough
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 18, 2012
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        That method does not work to align the frame for good. Steel frames
        have enough spring in them to straighten out under axle nut pressure
        but that's not enough to permanently bend them. You actually need to
        over bend them slightly to get them where you want. Park Tool,
        Campy, etc make dropout alignment tools just for the job that work
        great to get perfect alignment. Most bike shops would have them and
        it only takes a couple of minutes to do the work. I have a set of
        Park that work great. You could make your own with some threaded rod
        and a bunch of nuts and large washers but they might not be as
        straight as the professional tools.

        As most know, fighting the frame to get wheels in or out is a royal
        pain and it's well worth getting the frame straight and aligned.

        I've also seen axles break when forced to align the frame. The
        constant cyclical pressure can break many axles when they are being bent.

        Rick


        At 08:39 AM 7/18/2012, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > <snip> Perhaps in installing the hub-gear equiped rear wheel the
        > drop-outs are forced to assume a parallel position? The rear wheel
        > when check after installation runs true to the bike's center line.
        >
        >Al
      • Al
          Thanks for the mentioning of the Park tool. I went to the web site and found the discussion of the tool use to be helpful.   Perhaps I ve been fortunate in
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 18, 2012
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            Thanks for the mentioning of the Park tool. I went to the web site and found the discussion of the tool use to be helpful.

            Perhaps I've been fortunate in he modifying the frames as I've never encountered any difficulty indicating misalignment.  Also,  I never noticed any spring-back, perhaps because I over "corrected".

            Below is the link to the Park page.

                   Al

          From: Rick Paulus <rick-paulos@...>
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:16 AM
          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Changing rear drop-out distance

           
          That method does not work to align the frame for good. Steel frames
          have enough spring in them to straighten out under axle nut pressure
          but that's not enough to permanently bend them. You actually need to
          over bend them slightly to get them where you want. Park Tool,
          Campy, etc make dropout alignment tools just for the job that work
          great to get perfect alignment. Most bike shops would have them and
          it only takes a couple of minutes to do the work. I have a set of
          Park that work great. You could make your own with some threaded rod
          and a bunch of nuts and large washers but they might not be as
          straight as the professional tools.

          As most know, fighting the frame to get wheels in or out is a royal
          pain and it's well worth getting the frame straight and aligned.

          I've also seen axles break when forced to align the frame. The
          constant cyclical pressure can break many axles when they are being bent.

          Rick

          At 08:39 AM 7/18/2012, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <snip> Perhaps in installing the hub-gear equiped rear wheel the
          > drop-outs are forced to assume a parallel position? The rear wheel
          > when check after installation runs true to the bike's center line.
          >
          >Al



        • bnexus8
          I ve recently cold set a Brompton rear triangle to accept a Shimano hub (was an 11 but now an 8 but that s another story). I made the spreader from a length of
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 18, 2012
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            I've recently cold set a Brompton rear triangle to accept a Shimano hub (was an 11 but now an 8 but that's another story).
            I made the spreader from a length of tube two pieces of 15mm studding and six nuts. The Brompton has to be spread a long way but it all worked fine. I went 20mm over to get it to finish to suit the hub.
            I don't see that parallel can be a problem because you are pushing one drop out away from centre against the other so both are moving by equal amounts (I think). Dunno as I'd want to do it with a lump of wood though :0)

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@...> wrote:
            >
            > This sounds like a simple method, but how do you know whether the two stays
            > move evenly and whether the dropouts are still parallel to the midplane of
            > the bike with this method? I see this method having the potential to
            > result in the wheel being not properly aligned.
            >
            > We periodically spread road and older mtb frames to fit the 135mm axle
            > length of the Rohloff Speedhub using Sheldon Brown's method with one
            > additional step. This is a quick and easy approach that maintains the
            > alignment of the dropouts. We measure the dropout spacing, calculate the
            > spread distance, and divide by two to find out how far we need to move each
            > side (say 130mm --> 135mm = 5mm total spread/2 = 2.5mm per side). We use a
            > 2x4 or the Park Tool frame bending tool to move one side the half distance
            > we need, then realign the dropout so it is parallel to the second,
            > untouched one. Repeat the process on the second side and you're good to
            > go, dropouts still aligned as they were originally. This does assume that
            > the dropouts were properly aligned prior to starting.
            >
            > There are various methods to check the alignment of the rear end of the
            > frame before and after a cold setting operation. These could be combined
            > with the axle and nut operation to get the same end results, but if the
            > frame is aligned before starting, I think the modified Sheldon Brown method
            > gets you to the end result more easily.
            >
            > Neil
            >
            >
            > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Al <k3eax@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Most of the posting are requests for help in solving a particular
            > > problem. While that's a fine use of the site, methinks that the posting of
            > > helpful suggestions would be welcomed as well. And so here's just such from
            > > me.
            > >
            > > When converting a lugged road or sports-touring frame to accept a Sturmey
            > > Archer hub, I narrow the distance betwen the rear drop-outs by placing a
            > > nutted rear axle across the drop-out and apply bending pressure by
            > > tightening the nuts. While this approach has worked quite well with lugged
            > > frame, I admittedly have not made any use of it with the welded variey.
            > >
            > > Do you have any hints to share?
            > >
            > > Al in Philadelphia
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Neil Flock
            > Owner
            >
            > Cycle Monkey
            > * Rohloff Service Partner
            > * Custom Wheelbuilding
            > * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
            > Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
            > Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
            > Magura Brakes
            >
            > www.cyclemonkey.com
            > cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
            > 510-868-1777
            >
            > Mailing Address:
            > 604 Quintana Place NW
            > Washington, DC 20011
            >
            > Service Address:
            > 6501 Fairmount Avenue
            > El Cerrito, CA 94530
            >
          • Cycle Monkey
            You don t know that both stays will move evenly if you attempt to adjust them at the same time with any method that involves pushing or pulling the two sides
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 18, 2012
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              You don't know that both stays will move evenly if you attempt to adjust them at the same time with any method that involves pushing or pulling the two sides against each other.  If you're trying to spread a frame by 5mm and one size moves 4mm and other 1mm you get the same final spacing as if you moved each side 2.5mm.  Many frames have asymmetric stays, gussets, cross sections, or butting to clear chainrings, crank arms, and deal with the difference in loads between the drive side and non drive side.  Because of this, you are likely to have only one side move and end up with a rear end that is no longer straight.  It may ride ok, even if the back end is no longer perfectly aligned, but it might cause broken axles, bearing problems, or uneven tire wear.  The more you try to adjust the frame spacing, the more important it would be to check the final alignment because there is a larger potential for mis-alignment.

              Neil



              On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:54 PM, bnexus8 <dclark@...> wrote:
               

              I've recently cold set a Brompton rear triangle to accept a Shimano hub (was an 11 but now an 8 but that's another story).
              I made the spreader from a length of tube two pieces of 15mm studding and six nuts. The Brompton has to be spread a long way but it all worked fine. I went 20mm over to get it to finish to suit the hub.
              I don't see that parallel can be a problem because you are pushing one drop out away from centre against the other so both are moving by equal amounts (I think). Dunno as I'd want to do it with a lump of wood though :0)

              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@...> wrote:
              >
              > This sounds like a simple method, but how do you know whether the two stays
              > move evenly and whether the dropouts are still parallel to the midplane of
              > the bike with this method? I see this method having the potential to
              > result in the wheel being not properly aligned.
              >
              > We periodically spread road and older mtb frames to fit the 135mm axle
              > length of the Rohloff Speedhub using Sheldon Brown's method with one
              > additional step. This is a quick and easy approach that maintains the
              > alignment of the dropouts. We measure the dropout spacing, calculate the
              > spread distance, and divide by two to find out how far we need to move each
              > side (say 130mm --> 135mm = 5mm total spread/2 = 2.5mm per side). We use a
              > 2x4 or the Park Tool frame bending tool to move one side the half distance
              > we need, then realign the dropout so it is parallel to the second,
              > untouched one. Repeat the process on the second side and you're good to
              > go, dropouts still aligned as they were originally. This does assume that
              > the dropouts were properly aligned prior to starting.
              >
              > There are various methods to check the alignment of the rear end of the
              > frame before and after a cold setting operation. These could be combined
              > with the axle and nut operation to get the same end results, but if the
              > frame is aligned before starting, I think the modified Sheldon Brown method
              > gets you to the end result more easily.
              >
              > Neil
              >
              >
              > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Al <k3eax@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Most of the posting are requests for help in solving a particular
              > > problem. While that's a fine use of the site, methinks that the posting of
              > > helpful suggestions would be welcomed as well. And so here's just such from
              > > me.
              > >
              > > When converting a lugged road or sports-touring frame to accept a Sturmey
              > > Archer hub, I narrow the distance betwen the rear drop-outs by placing a
              > > nutted rear axle across the drop-out and apply bending pressure by
              > > tightening the nuts. While this approach has worked quite well with lugged
              > > frame, I admittedly have not made any use of it with the welded variey.
              > >
              > > Do you have any hints to share?
              > >
              > > Al in Philadelphia
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Neil Flock
              > Owner
              >
              > Cycle Monkey
              > * Rohloff Service Partner
              > * Custom Wheelbuilding
              > * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
              > Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
              > Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
              > Magura Brakes
              >
              > www.cyclemonkey.com
              > cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
              > 510-868-1777
              >
              > Mailing Address:
              > 604 Quintana Place NW
              > Washington, DC 20011
              >
              > Service Address:
              > 6501 Fairmount Avenue
              > El Cerrito, CA 94530
              >




              --
              Neil Flock
              Owner

              Cycle Monkey
              * Rohloff Service Partner
              * Custom Wheelbuilding
              * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
                Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
                Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
                Magura Brakes

              www.cyclemonkey.com
              cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
              510-868-1777

              Mailing Address:
              604 Quintana Place NW
              Washington, DC 20011

              Service Address:
              6501 Fairmount Avenue
              El Cerrito, CA 94530

            • bnexus8
              I confess that I am not a metallurgist and my physics is weak, but if both stays are of the same material why would one move further than the other when the
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 19, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I confess that I am not a metallurgist and my physics is weak, but if both stays are of the same material why would one move further than the other when the force is being applied equally between them? If they started offset (as I think they may be on the Brompton) they will stay offset, I'd have thought?
                Anyways, practical experience indicates it worked for me and Julianne Neuss, who I had the information from, has done a lot using this method.


                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@...> wrote:
                >
                > You don't know that both stays will move evenly if you attempt to adjust
                > them at the same time with any method that involves pushing or pulling the
                > two sides against each other. If you're trying to spread a frame by 5mm
                > and one size moves 4mm and other 1mm you get the same final spacing as if
                > you moved each side 2.5mm. Many frames have asymmetric stays, gussets,
                > cross sections, or butting to clear chainrings, crank arms, and deal with
                > the difference in loads between the drive side and non drive side. Because
                > of this, you are likely to have only one side move and end up with a rear
                > end that is no longer straight. It may ride ok, even if the back end is no
                > longer perfectly aligned, but it might cause broken axles, bearing
                > problems, or uneven tire wear. The more you try to adjust the frame
                > spacing, the more important it would be to check the final alignment
                > because there is a larger potential for mis-alignment.
                >
                > Neil
                >
                >
                >
                > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:54 PM, bnexus8 <dclark@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > I've recently cold set a Brompton rear triangle to accept a Shimano hub
                > > (was an 11 but now an 8 but that's another story).
                > > I made the spreader from a length of tube two pieces of 15mm studding and
                > > six nuts. The Brompton has to be spread a long way but it all worked fine.
                > > I went 20mm over to get it to finish to suit the hub.
                > > I don't see that parallel can be a problem because you are pushing one
                > > drop out away from centre against the other so both are moving by equal
                > > amounts (I think). Dunno as I'd want to do it with a lump of wood though :0)
                > >
                > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > This sounds like a simple method, but how do you know whether the two
                > > stays
                > > > move evenly and whether the dropouts are still parallel to the midplane
                > > of
                > > > the bike with this method? I see this method having the potential to
                > > > result in the wheel being not properly aligned.
                > > >
                > > > We periodically spread road and older mtb frames to fit the 135mm axle
                > > > length of the Rohloff Speedhub using Sheldon Brown's method with one
                > > > additional step. This is a quick and easy approach that maintains the
                > > > alignment of the dropouts. We measure the dropout spacing, calculate the
                > > > spread distance, and divide by two to find out how far we need to move
                > > each
                > > > side (say 130mm --> 135mm = 5mm total spread/2 = 2.5mm per side). We use
                > > a
                > > > 2x4 or the Park Tool frame bending tool to move one side the half
                > > distance
                > > > we need, then realign the dropout so it is parallel to the second,
                > > > untouched one. Repeat the process on the second side and you're good to
                > > > go, dropouts still aligned as they were originally. This does assume that
                > > > the dropouts were properly aligned prior to starting.
                > > >
                > > > There are various methods to check the alignment of the rear end of the
                > > > frame before and after a cold setting operation. These could be combined
                > > > with the axle and nut operation to get the same end results, but if the
                > > > frame is aligned before starting, I think the modified Sheldon Brown
                > > method
                > > > gets you to the end result more easily.
                > > >
                > > > Neil
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Al <k3eax@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > **
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Most of the posting are requests for help in solving a particular
                > > > > problem. While that's a fine use of the site, methinks that the
                > > posting of
                > > > > helpful suggestions would be welcomed as well. And so here's just such
                > > from
                > > > > me.
                > > > >
                > > > > When converting a lugged road or sports-touring frame to accept a
                > > Sturmey
                > > > > Archer hub, I narrow the distance betwen the rear drop-outs by placing
                > > a
                > > > > nutted rear axle across the drop-out and apply bending pressure by
                > > > > tightening the nuts. While this approach has worked quite well with
                > > lugged
                > > > > frame, I admittedly have not made any use of it with the welded variey.
                > > > >
                > > > > Do you have any hints to share?
                > > > >
                > > > > Al in Philadelphia
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > Neil Flock
                > > > Owner
                > > >
                > > > Cycle Monkey
                > > > * Rohloff Service Partner
                > > > * Custom Wheelbuilding
                > > > * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
                > > > Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
                > > > Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
                > > > Magura Brakes
                > > >
                > > > www.cyclemonkey.com
                > > > cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
                > > > 510-868-1777
                > > >
                > > > Mailing Address:
                > > > 604 Quintana Place NW
                > > > Washington, DC 20011
                > > >
                > > > Service Address:
                > > > 6501 Fairmount Avenue
                > > > El Cerrito, CA 94530
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Neil Flock
                > Owner
                >
                > Cycle Monkey
                > * Rohloff Service Partner
                > * Custom Wheelbuilding
                > * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
                > Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
                > Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
                > Magura Brakes
                >
                > www.cyclemonkey.com
                > cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
                > 510-868-1777
                >
                > Mailing Address:
                > 604 Quintana Place NW
                > Washington, DC 20011
                >
                > Service Address:
                > 6501 Fairmount Avenue
                > El Cerrito, CA 94530
                >
              • bad.mother@ymail.com
                I have used a car jack to spread the rear of 3 (as far as I can remember) cheapo steel foldingbikes. Worked fine.
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 19, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have used a car jack to spread the rear of 3 (as far as I can remember) cheapo steel foldingbikes. Worked fine.


                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "bnexus8" <dclark@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I confess that I am not a metallurgist and my physics is weak, but if both stays are of the same material why would one move further than the other when the force is being applied equally between them? If they started offset (as I think they may be on the Brompton) they will stay offset, I'd have thought?
                  > Anyways, practical experience indicates it worked for me and Julianne Neuss, who I had the information from, has done a lot using this method.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > You don't know that both stays will move evenly if you attempt to adjust
                  > > them at the same time with any method that involves pushing or pulling the
                  > > two sides against each other. If you're trying to spread a frame by 5mm
                  > > and one size moves 4mm and other 1mm you get the same final spacing as if
                  > > you moved each side 2.5mm. Many frames have asymmetric stays, gussets,
                  > > cross sections, or butting to clear chainrings, crank arms, and deal with
                  > > the difference in loads between the drive side and non drive side. Because
                  > > of this, you are likely to have only one side move and end up with a rear
                  > > end that is no longer straight. It may ride ok, even if the back end is no
                  > > longer perfectly aligned, but it might cause broken axles, bearing
                  > > problems, or uneven tire wear. The more you try to adjust the frame
                  > > spacing, the more important it would be to check the final alignment
                  > > because there is a larger potential for mis-alignment.
                  > >
                  > > Neil
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:54 PM, bnexus8 <dclark@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > **
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I've recently cold set a Brompton rear triangle to accept a Shimano hub
                  > > > (was an 11 but now an 8 but that's another story).
                  > > > I made the spreader from a length of tube two pieces of 15mm studding and
                  > > > six nuts. The Brompton has to be spread a long way but it all worked fine.
                  > > > I went 20mm over to get it to finish to suit the hub.
                  > > > I don't see that parallel can be a problem because you are pushing one
                  > > > drop out away from centre against the other so both are moving by equal
                  > > > amounts (I think). Dunno as I'd want to do it with a lump of wood though :0)
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Cycle Monkey <cyclemonkey@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This sounds like a simple method, but how do you know whether the two
                  > > > stays
                  > > > > move evenly and whether the dropouts are still parallel to the midplane
                  > > > of
                  > > > > the bike with this method? I see this method having the potential to
                  > > > > result in the wheel being not properly aligned.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > We periodically spread road and older mtb frames to fit the 135mm axle
                  > > > > length of the Rohloff Speedhub using Sheldon Brown's method with one
                  > > > > additional step. This is a quick and easy approach that maintains the
                  > > > > alignment of the dropouts. We measure the dropout spacing, calculate the
                  > > > > spread distance, and divide by two to find out how far we need to move
                  > > > each
                  > > > > side (say 130mm --> 135mm = 5mm total spread/2 = 2.5mm per side). We use
                  > > > a
                  > > > > 2x4 or the Park Tool frame bending tool to move one side the half
                  > > > distance
                  > > > > we need, then realign the dropout so it is parallel to the second,
                  > > > > untouched one. Repeat the process on the second side and you're good to
                  > > > > go, dropouts still aligned as they were originally. This does assume that
                  > > > > the dropouts were properly aligned prior to starting.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > There are various methods to check the alignment of the rear end of the
                  > > > > frame before and after a cold setting operation. These could be combined
                  > > > > with the axle and nut operation to get the same end results, but if the
                  > > > > frame is aligned before starting, I think the modified Sheldon Brown
                  > > > method
                  > > > > gets you to the end result more easily.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Neil
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Al <k3eax@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > **
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Most of the posting are requests for help in solving a particular
                  > > > > > problem. While that's a fine use of the site, methinks that the
                  > > > posting of
                  > > > > > helpful suggestions would be welcomed as well. And so here's just such
                  > > > from
                  > > > > > me.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > When converting a lugged road or sports-touring frame to accept a
                  > > > Sturmey
                  > > > > > Archer hub, I narrow the distance betwen the rear drop-outs by placing
                  > > > a
                  > > > > > nutted rear axle across the drop-out and apply bending pressure by
                  > > > > > tightening the nuts. While this approach has worked quite well with
                  > > > lugged
                  > > > > > frame, I admittedly have not made any use of it with the welded variey.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Do you have any hints to share?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Al in Philadelphia
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --
                  > > > > Neil Flock
                  > > > > Owner
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Cycle Monkey
                  > > > > * Rohloff Service Partner
                  > > > > * Custom Wheelbuilding
                  > > > > * Distributor of Rohloff SPEEDHUBS, Schlumpf Gearing Systems
                  > > > > Gates Carbon Drive Belt Systems, Wipperman Connex Chains
                  > > > > Sapim Spokes and Nipples, No Tubes Tubeless Rims
                  > > > > Magura Brakes
                  > > > >
                  > > > > www.cyclemonkey.com
                  > > > > cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com
                  > > > > 510-868-1777
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Mailing Address:
                  > > > > 604 Quintana Place NW
                  > > > > Washington, DC 20011
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Service Address:
                  > > > > 6501 Fairmount Avenue
                  > > > > El Cerrito, CA 94530
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
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                • Dan Burkhart
                  ... In my experience, when the drive side chainstay is dimpled to acommodate the chainring, it always bends easier than the non dimpled side. I compensate for
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 19, 2012
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                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "bnexus8" <dclark@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > I confess that I am not a metallurgist and my physics is weak, but if both stays are of the same material why would one move further than the other when the force is being applied equally between them? If they started offset (as I think they may be on the Brompton) they will stay offset, I'd have thought?
                    > Anyways, practical experience indicates it worked for me and Julianne Neuss, who I had the information from, has done a lot using this method.

                    In my experience, when the drive side chainstay is dimpled to acommodate the chainring, it always bends easier than the non dimpled side.
                    I compensate for this by aligning the frame after setting the spacing in this manner.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7JYUlcksx8&list=UU6tbdrMEdDoQDcOdRqlCdEA&index=3&feature=plcp

                    I've used this method on lots of steel frames. Some were almost too rigid to bend straight by putting my weight on the seat tube, but most frames yield nicely.
                  • Dan Burkhart
                    ... Gaah!That was not the video I meant to link. This one shows it better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXI5DleUH-c
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 19, 2012
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                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Burkhart" <boomer5319@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In my experience, when the drive side chainstay is dimpled to acommodate the chainring, it always bends easier than the non dimpled side.
                      > I compensate for this by aligning the frame after setting the spacing in this manner.
                      > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7JYUlcksx8&list=UU6tbdrMEdDoQDcOdRqlCdEA&index=3&feature=plcp
                      >
                      > I've used this method on lots of steel frames. Some were almost too rigid to bend straight by putting my weight on the seat tube, but most frames yield nicely.
                      >



                      Gaah!That was not the video I meant to link. This one shows it better.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXI5DleUH-c
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