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Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?

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  • Al
    Okay, after reading several replies and postings from other groups on the web, I m really confused about 3-in-One. Is it or is it not vegetable based?   Al
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 2 1:49 PM
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      Okay, after reading several replies and postings from other groups on the web, I'm really confused about 3-in-One. Is it or is it not vegetable based?

        Al

      From: Rick Paulus <rick-paulos@...>
      To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 4:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?

       
      I can't say I've ever had a can of that stuff in my possession.  My mom uses it on her sewing machine all the time and she sews more than most of us ride.

      Speaking of gummy residue.  Shimano grease sure fits that description.  The stuff they put in all their shifters is about the gluiest stuff on the planet.  After a couple years you can use it to stick heavy items to the wall.  Yeah, no one ever tells you to lube your sti or rapid shifters but once they start acting up, its all over.  I guess there is way too much money being made in replacements for bike shops to warn you about it.

      I've taken scores of SA and Shimano hubs apart.  A lot of people really obsess over what lubes to use but the older (50s, 60s, 70s) SA hubs sure do hold up well despite the near total lack of lube or the variety of lubes I've observed in many.

      rick



      At 02:12 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
       

      Rick, I caution you never to repeatedly use 3-in-One oil in any sort of  hub, . 3-in-One is vegetable based and will upon evaporation leave a gummy residue that will require a dismantling of the hub.

         Al

         .






    • wahooncx@yahoo.com
      They make both Aaron Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Al Sender: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 2 1:50 PM
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        They make both

        Aaron
        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

        From: Al <k3eax@...>
        Sender: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com<Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?

         

        Okay, after reading several replies and postings from other groups on the web, I'm really confused about 3-in-One. Is it or is it not vegetable based?

          Al

        From: Rick Paulus <rick-paulos@...>
        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 4:34 PM
        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?

         
        I can't say I've ever had a can of that stuff in my possession.  My mom uses it on her sewing machine all the time and she sews more than most of us ride.

        Speaking of gummy residue.  Shimano grease sure fits that description.  The stuff they put in all their shifters is about the gluiest stuff on the planet.  After a couple years you can use it to stick heavy items to the wall.  Yeah, no one ever tells you to lube your sti or rapid shifters but once they start acting up, its all over.  I guess there is way too much money being made in replacements for bike shops to warn you about it.

        I've taken scores of SA and Shimano hubs apart.  A lot of people really obsess over what lubes to use but the older (50s, 60s, 70s) SA hubs sure do hold up well despite the near total lack of lube or the variety of lubes I've observed in many.

        rick



        At 02:12 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
         

        Rick, I caution you never to repeatedly use 3-in-One oil in any sort of  hub, . 3-in-One is vegetable based and will upon evaporation leave a gummy residue that will require a dismantling of the hub.

           Al

           .






      • jim
        Has anyone tried Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for bike applications??  It s a thick, very sticky and tenacious additive that the company claims is great
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2 2:03 PM
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          Has anyone tried Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for bike applications??  It's a thick, very sticky and tenacious additive that the company claims is great for both crankcase and manual trannies.  I've tried it in neither believing that my truck manufacturer's recommendations are best as to weight and type and this stuff will change at least the former -- it flows just a little quicker than honey.

          http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Heavy%20Duty%20Oil%20Stabilizer 

          I saw it first in a little demonstrator on a countertop in a tire store. They had two sets of vertical gears, one with regular 10w30, the other with this Lucas stuff.  After you spin the gears, the regular motor oil falls back down in a few seconds, but the Stabilizer hangs on for minutes.  

          It's no more expensive than 75w90 gear oil. I use it in freewheels and it silences them but seems to continue lubing for a long, long time, so I'm assuming it can maintain a lubricating film for some time.  Usually I'll warm the freewheel and cassette gently on the stove so that this Stabilizer stuff flows into all the bits. 

          Not sure if it would be such a great thing in IGH, but I was considering trying it.  I should say that where I live temps stay above 70 around the clock 70% of the year.  Anyone use it??  Have any thoughts on how goop like this might perform in IGH??



          --- On Mon, 4/2/12, rons_hobbies <peter.pilot@...> wrote:

          From: rons_hobbies <peter.pilot@...>
          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 4:23 PM

           

          PJ, thanks and I apologize for not stating I had searched by "Shimano 333" and looked over the Shimano Tech Tips (they have a tip for using their new grease, but nothing on hubs and oil) and not found an answer I was comfortable with. Duh, didn't try "Lubrication" and in the first 40 of the 158 didn't spot what you kindly mentioned: 75W-90 synthetic gear oil. Makes me think I could fill it with Tri-flow, might actually be cost effective.

          Other replies:

          My "other" hobby is vintage sewing machines and lubrication is quite a topic there. Most restorers/users use Tri-flow now, funny to think about the post WWII shortages in GB being reversed as Vasoline is still mentioned as just fine if nothing else is handy.

          Most penetrating oils are based on Stoddard Oil, as is "Water Displacement formula #40 (WD-40). I also thought 3-in-1 was to be avoided at all costs, turns out it started as a thimble oil in weaving mills and is petroleum based. But so is paraffin wax (not the liquid kind burned in GB also known in NA as kerosene). Like many, I find the violates in WD-40 and 3-in-1 go pretty quickly leaving the additives behind as a film. There are many other products available so I only have a can of WD-40 for the odd times I need to chase away some water.

          Thanks again,

          Ron

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
          >
          > There's a great deal in the archives about lubrication.
          >
          > Most light oils will be fine.
          >
          > These days Shimano sells a special IGH oil which I believe goes for ~$70,000 a barrel. After the war when times were tight, Sturmey said a cyclist could use sewing machine oil in the hub's mechanism and Vaseline on the hub's ball bearings.
          >
          > Automatic Transmission fluid is all the rage currently, although you should know some of it is as light as the equivalent viscosity of 3wt motor oil. FWIW, I use 75W-90 synthetic gear oil (and to save anyone from making an ill-informed comment, that's about the equivalent viscosity of 10W-30 motor oil).
          >
          > > 3inOne works.
          >
          > Uh...well, see the archives.
          >
          > pj
          >

        • rons_hobbies
          Note: Yahoo is acting up and not displaying the original text. Shifter lube: I recall a discussion on Bikeforumn.net on Shram shifters. Seems Shram called for
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 2 2:40 PM
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            Note: Yahoo is acting up and not displaying the original text.

            Shifter lube: I recall a discussion on Bikeforumn.net on Shram shifters. Seems Shram called for their lube till they discontinued it. Then they basically said use anything you like.

            Ron
          • rons_hobbies
            From the 3-in-1 Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS): Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic Oil 97% http://www.3inone.com/products/multi-purpose/ accessed April
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 2 2:48 PM
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              From the 3-in-1 Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS):

              Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic Oil 97%

              http://www.3inone.com/products/multi-purpose/ accessed April 12, 2012

              "Naphthenic oil is a type of mineral oil." . . . In contrast with paraffinic oils, naphthenic oils contain only low to no proportion of n-alkanes, being based on cycloalkanes (naphthenes) instead. The low-temperature behavior of naphthenic oils is better than of paraffinic oils, making them suitable for applications that require low pour point. The degradation products of naphthenic oils are soluble in the oils, leading to fewer problems with formations of sludges and deposits. Naphthenic oils have different solvent properties than paraffinic oils.

              Naphthenic oils are characterized by high proportion of cyclic hydrocarbon fraction. The convention is that when the paraffinic carbon content is less than 55-60%, the oil is labeled as naphthenic.[1]

              The principal uses of naphthenic oils are as transformer oils, coolants, solvents, cutting fluids, and some lubricants."

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphthenic_oil accessed April 2, 2012

              "3-in-One Oil is a general-purpose lubricating oil sold in small cans and squeezable containers for household and do-it-yourself use. It was originally formulated in 1894. Its name, given by the inventor George W. Cole of New Jersey, derives from the product's triple ability to "clean, lubricate and protect," originally for use on bicycles. The formula consists of pale spindle oil with a small amount of corrosion inhibitor and citronella oil (which gives the product its distinctive sharp odor). It remains a popular lubricant for bicycle chains.

              The product changed ownership many times throughout the 20th century and was bought by its current owners, the WD-40 Company, in 1995. The current marketing slogan is "The Tool Kit In A Can" with the well-known logo of the text "3 in" inside a large numeral "1"."

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-In-One_Oil accessed April 12, 2012

              Hope this answers your question.

              Ron

              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Al <k3eax@...> wrote:
              >
              > Okay, after reading several replies and postings from other groups on the web, I'm really confused about 3-in-One. Is it or is it not vegetable based?
              >
              >   Al
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Rick Paulus <rick-paulos@...>
              > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 4:34 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > I can't say I've ever had a can of that stuff in my possession.  My
              > mom uses it on her sewing machine all the time and she sews more than
              > most of us ride.
              >
              > Speaking of gummy residue.  Shimano grease sure fits that
              > description.  The stuff they put in all their shifters is about the
              > gluiest stuff on the planet.  After a couple years you can use it to
              > stick heavy items to the wall.  Yeah, no one ever tells you to lube
              > your sti or rapid shifters but once they start acting up, its all
              > over.  I guess there is way too much money being made in
              > replacements for bike shops to warn you about it.
              >
              > I've taken scores of SA and Shimano hubs apart.  A lot of people
              > really obsess over what lubes to use but the older (50s, 60s, 70s) SA
              > hubs sure do hold up well despite the near total lack of lube or the
              > variety of lubes I've observed in many.
              >
              > rick
              >
              >
              >
              > At 02:12 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
              >
              >  
              > >
              > >Rick, I caution you never to repeatedly use 3-in-One oil in any sort
              > of  hub, . 3-in-One is vegetable based and will upon evaporation
              > leave a gummy residue that will require a dismantling of the
              > hub.
              > >
              > >   Al
              > >
              > >   .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • jim
              1894?  Talk about old school! ... From: rons_hobbies Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70 s ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 2 3:16 PM
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                1894?  Talk about old school!




                --- On Mon, 4/2/12, rons_hobbies <peter.pilot@...> wrote:

                From: rons_hobbies <peter.pilot@...>
                Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight? ~ 3-in-1 Oil
                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 5:48 PM

                 

                From the 3-in-1 Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS):

                Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic Oil 97%

                http://www.3inone.com/products/multi-purpose/ accessed April 12, 2012

                "Naphthenic oil is a type of mineral oil." . . . In contrast with paraffinic oils, naphthenic oils contain only low to no proportion of n-alkanes, being based on cycloalkanes (naphthenes) instead. The low-temperature behavior of naphthenic oils is better than of paraffinic oils, making them suitable for applications that require low pour point. The degradation products of naphthenic oils are soluble in the oils, leading to fewer problems with formations of sludges and deposits. Naphthenic oils have different solvent properties than paraffinic oils.

                Naphthenic oils are characterized by high proportion of cyclic hydrocarbon fraction. The convention is that when the paraffinic carbon content is less than 55-60%, the oil is labeled as naphthenic.[1]

                The principal uses of naphthenic oils are as transformer oils, coolants, solvents, cutting fluids, and some lubricants."

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphthenic_oil accessed April 2, 2012

                "3-in-One Oil is a general-purpose lubricating oil sold in small cans and squeezable containers for household and do-it-yourself use. It was originally formulated in 1894. Its name, given by the inventor George W. Cole of New Jersey, derives from the product's triple ability to "clean, lubricate and protect," originally for use on bicycles. The formula consists of pale spindle oil with a small amount of corrosion inhibitor and citronella oil (which gives the product its distinctive sharp odor). It remains a popular lubricant for bicycle chains.

                The product changed ownership many times throughout the 20th century and was bought by its current owners, the WD-40 Company, in 1995. The current marketing slogan is "The Tool Kit In A Can" with the well-known logo of the text "3 in" inside a large numeral "1"."

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-In-One_Oil accessed April 12, 2012

                Hope this answers your question.

                Ron

                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Al <k3eax@...> wrote:
                >
                > Okay, after reading several replies and postings from other groups on the web, I'm really confused about 3-in-One. Is it or is it not vegetable based?
                >
                >   Al
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Rick Paulus <rick-paulos@...>
                > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 4:34 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > I can't say I've ever had a can of that stuff in my possession.  My
                > mom uses it on her sewing machine all the time and she sews more than
                > most of us ride.
                >
                > Speaking of gummy residue.  Shimano grease sure fits that
                > description.  The stuff they put in all their shifters is about the
                > gluiest stuff on the planet.  After a couple years you can use it to
                > stick heavy items to the wall.  Yeah, no one ever tells you to lube
                > your sti or rapid shifters but once they start acting up, its all
                > over.  I guess there is way too much money being made in
                > replacements for bike shops to warn you about it.
                >
                > I've taken scores of SA and Shimano hubs apart.  A lot of people
                > really obsess over what lubes to use but the older (50s, 60s, 70s) SA
                > hubs sure do hold up well despite the near total lack of lube or the
                > variety of lubes I've observed in many.
                >
                > rick
                >
                >
                >
                > At 02:12 PM 4/2/2012, you wrote:
                >
                >  
                > >
                > >Rick, I caution you never to repeatedly use 3-in-One oil in any sort
                > of  hub, . 3-in-One is vegetable based and will upon evaporation
                > leave a gummy residue that will require a dismantling of the
                > hub.
                > >
                > >   Al
                > >
                > >   .
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >

              • rons_hobbies
                Yea. Much to my GF s dismay, I did some research to learn just what pale spindle oil is. Still produced, high quality oil. Found one 1937 lubrication manual
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 2 6:11 PM
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                  Yea. Much to my GF's dismay, I did some research to learn just what "pale spindle oil" is. Still produced, high quality oil. Found one 1937 lubrication manual at Archive.org that gave some information along with the wiki article. I won't bad-mouth 3-in-1 again.

                  Ron

                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, jim <jimbofla1138@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > 1894?  Talk about old school!
                  >
                  >
                  <Snip>
                • pj
                  ... See message #770 pj
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 2 8:42 PM
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                    > 1894? Talk about old school!

                    See message #770

                    pj
                  • rons_hobbies
                    Thanks Andrew. Seems the PB Blaster and heat were enough for these, though I won t be surprised when they start breaking. Going to go shopping for the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 4 12:38 PM
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                      Thanks Andrew. Seems the PB Blaster and heat were enough for these, though I won't be surprised when they start breaking. Going to go shopping for the "Spokey." Sounds like a tubing type wrench. These have a slot in one face of a box end wrench so it can slip over the tubing and fully grasp all but one flat.

                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Curl" <methuselah@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I've been building my own wheels for years, and I have found the best type of "anti-rounding" key is a "Spokey" or similar- these contact all four nipple faces (two completely, two partially) and really are a cheap insurance. I have broken spokes trying to bodge up wheels enough to get home after a crash, but I haven't rounded a nipple yet.
                      >
                      > -Andrew UK
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: rons_hobbies
                      > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 3:22 PM
                      > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: 70's ? Huffy/ Shimano 333 with plastic oil port - Oil Weight?
                      >
                      <Snip>
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