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Forty-year work career & SA-AW

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  • k3eax
    Not with much to do at this hour on a Friday morn, I thought I d share with you one of the reasons for my deep regard for the SA-AW hub. Retired now but having
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 30 5:20 AM
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      Not with much to do at this hour on a Friday morn, I thought I'd share with you one of the reasons for my deep regard for the SA-AW hub. Retired now but having used the hub rear year round for forty years in my daily commute to work, I can say that I was never faced with travel limiting on-the-road mechanical problems; the AW was utterly reliable.

      During that forty year period usage was distributed amongst perhaps three different AW hubs. I recall opening but one and that was to replaced the clutch and planet pins.

      My daily rider(s) are still AW-equiped. And so, please excuse my implied "guffaws" when I negatively react to references to those more modern trouble prone hubs.

      Al in Philadelphia
    • David Chase
      So, I have a Sturmey-Archer hub, 3-speed AW, professionally rebuilt. It refuses to stay engaged in the lowest gear. Perhaps you are merely lucky? If the hub
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 30 7:50 AM
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        So, I have a Sturmey-Archer hub, 3-speed AW, professionally rebuilt.
        It refuses to stay engaged in the lowest gear. Perhaps you are merely
        lucky? If the hub is 80% reliable, you have a 50-50 chance of seeing
        3 good ones. Or am I unlucky, and would (probably) be happy with a
        replacement? (Do the newer 3-speed hubs not spin freely when they
        slip out of gear? I hate that. That might be worth the gamble.)

        The main difference between durable hubs, and trouble-prone hubs,
        is whether they used enough metal in their construction (and hardened
        it properly). Those of us with ample weight, ample legs, and ample cargos
        are capable of exceeding the torque limits on these newer hubs. The
        SA hubs were designed in the day of "plenty=enough", but if you hit them
        with enough torque, they, too, will fail. I suspect, if you gear their input low
        enough, that they might also experience some of the same anti-rotation
        problems that the non-Rohloff hubs see.

        This stuff's not magic -- build it sturdy enough, it won't break. Design it
        for the 80th percentile rider only, or the casual rider, or the lightweight
        rider, and the heavier users will break it.

        David

        On 2012-03-30, at 8:20 AM, k3eax wrote:

        >
        > Not with much to do at this hour on a Friday morn, I thought I'd share with you one of the reasons for my deep regard for the SA-AW hub. Retired now but having used the hub rear year round for forty years in my daily commute to work, I can say that I was never faced with travel limiting on-the-road mechanical problems; the AW was utterly reliable.
        >
        > During that forty year period usage was distributed amongst perhaps three different AW hubs. I recall opening but one and that was to replaced the clutch and planet pins.
        >
        > My daily rider(s) are still AW-equiped. And so, please excuse my implied "guffaws" when I negatively react to references to those more modern trouble prone hubs.
        >
        > Al in Philadelphia
        >
        >
      • Al
           David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?   No, I don t think that I am a lucky user of the
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 30 8:03 AM
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             David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

            No, I don't think that I am a lucky user of the AWs.  And yes, I frequently carried loads and rate myself as a strong rider. The AW did have a glaring fault and that being the so-called intermediate gear;  so one very quickly realized that standing while peddling was a great no-no. Frankly, I've never heard say by any  user, of a non-abused and never tinkered with AW, that the hub was not reliable and virtually trouble-free.

            Al in Philadelphia, a wheel on SA hubs since 1956

          From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:50 AM
          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

          So, I have a Sturmey-Archer hub, 3-speed AW, professionally rebuilt.
          It refuses to stay engaged in the lowest gear.  Perhaps you are merely
          lucky?  If the hub is 80% reliable, you have a 50-50 chance of seeing
          3 good ones.  Or am I unlucky, and would (probably) be happy with a
          replacement?  (Do the newer 3-speed hubs not spin freely when they
          slip out of gear?  I hate that.  That might be worth the gamble.)

          The main difference between durable hubs, and trouble-prone hubs,
          is whether they used enough metal in their construction (and hardened
          it properly).  Those of us with ample weight, ample legs, and ample cargos
          are capable of exceeding the torque limits on these newer hubs.  The
          SA hubs were designed in the day of "plenty=enough", but if you hit them
          with enough torque, they, too, will fail.  I suspect, if you gear their input low
          enough, that they might also experience some of the same anti-rotation
          problems that the non-Rohloff hubs see.

          This stuff isn't magic -- build it sturdy enough, it won't break.  Design it
          for the 80th percentile rider only, or the casual rider, or the lightweight
          rider, and the heavier users will break it.

          David

          On 2012-03-30, at 8:20 AM, k3eax wrote:

          >
          > Not with much to do at this hour on a Friday morn, I thought I'd share with you one of the reasons for my deep regard for the SA-AW hub. Retired now but having used the hub rear year round for forty years in my daily commute to work, I can say that I was never faced with travel limiting on-the-road mechanical problems; the AW was utterly reliable.
          >
          > During that forty year period usage was distributed amongst perhaps three different AW hubs. I recall opening but one and that was to replaced the clutch and planet pins.
          >
          > My daily rider(s) are still AW-equiped. And so, please excuse my implied "guffaws" when I negatively react to references to those more modern trouble prone hubs.
          >
          > Al in Philadelphia
          >
          >



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        • David Chase
          ... Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School. When the other shops don t have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there. David
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 30 8:22 AM
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            On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

            >
            > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

            Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
            When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

            David
          • Al
              David, I ve been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I ve
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 30 8:38 AM
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                David, I've been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I've rebuilt have failed because my errors   ----- fortunately only  a few over the years.

                 Al

              From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
              Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

               

              On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

              >
              > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

              Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
              When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

              David



            • Al
                David the question arises, why didn t you seek remediation of the problem you re have with the repaired AW?  In the trade we call such a come-back and
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 30 10:36 AM
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                  David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW?  In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.

                    Al

                From: Al <k3eax@...>
                To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:38 AM
                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                 
                  David, I've been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I've rebuilt have failed because my errors   ----- fortunately only  a few over the years.

                   Al

                From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                 

                On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

                >
                > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

                Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
                When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

                David





              • Al
                 Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School s web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 30 10:58 AM
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                   Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School's web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for repair  ----and possible any bike at all. This "workers' cooperative"  and its so-called "workers" are no doubt transients and for the most part and trust-fund-babies who are skylarking or playing at bike repair.  I should imagine such a shop is without the discipline that in a traditionally structured business gives assurance to the customer that the repair will be conscientiously repaired and stood-behind. It is of little wonder that your hub is not working properly

                    Al in Philadelphia


                  From: Al <k3eax@...>
                  To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:36 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                   
                    David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW?  In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.

                      Al

                  From: Al <k3eax@...>
                  To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:38 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                   
                    David, I've been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I've rebuilt have failed because my errors   ----- fortunately only  a few over the years.

                     Al

                  From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                   

                  On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

                  >
                  > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

                  Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
                  When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

                  David







                • David Chase
                  No, you read it wrong. My understanding is they are the most experienced around with those hubs. They are also very helpful with running classes, loaning out
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 30 11:18 AM
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                    No, you read it wrong.
                    My understanding is they are the most experienced around with those hubs.
                    They are also very helpful with running classes, loaning out tools, etc, but
                    that's not the same thing as having volunteers work on customers bikes.

                    The employees do not strike me as trust fund babies.

                    As to why I didn't seek remediation, I'm busy. I assumed, also, that perhaps
                    because I am large, because I had a relatively low input gearing, that it was
                    simply not up to the torque and this was how it would behave under that
                    treatment. Add to that this is one of the freewheels-between-gears hubs (even
                    when it is working properly) and I am more than a little interested in maybe just
                    building a new wheel around a new hub without that "feature", rather than
                    invest more time and money in something that has not made me happy.
                    It would be nifty to have the historically accurate hub and (ALL STEEL) rim,
                    but not if it doesn't work reliably.

                    And as a general rule, I don't have good luck being a complaining customer,
                    so instead I just just don't go back, or don't continue to buy the product. You
                    know the rule about how the complaining customers are doing the business a
                    favorite, because most dissatisfied customers don't come back? I'm one of the
                    ones who doesn't come back.

                    I also considered having it rebuilt at Harris, but (a) I took just the wheel there
                    first, and they sent me away saying they needed to see the entire bike (under
                    the assumption, I think, that I was not capable of adjusting a 3-speed hub
                    accurately and diagnosing the problem) and (b) I didn't have good luck there
                    when my SRAM failed, so I was under-enthusiastic anyway.

                    David

                    On 2012-03-30, at 1:58 PM, Al wrote:

                    > Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School's web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for repair ----and possible any bike at all. This "workers' cooperative" and its so-called "workers" are no doubt transients and for the most part and trust-fund-babies who are skylarking or playing at bike repair. I should imagine such a shop is without the discipline that in a traditionally structured business gives assurance to the customer that the repair will be conscientiously repaired and stood-behind. It is of little wonder that your hub is not working properly
                    >
                    > Al in Philadelphia
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Al <k3eax@...>
                    > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:36 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW
                    >
                    >
                    > David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW? In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.
                    >
                    > Al
                  • Al
                     David, have you thought of locating a used hub and simply having its cartridege installed in your wheel s hub? Should you do, be sure the hubs are of the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 30 11:23 AM
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                       David, have you thought of locating a used hub and simply having its cartridege installed in your wheel's hub? Should you do, be sure the hubs are of the same axel length

                          Al

                      From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
                      To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 2:18 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                       
                      No, you read it wrong.
                      My understanding is they are the most experienced around with those hubs.
                      They are also very helpful with running classes, loaning out tools, etc, but
                      that's not the same thing as having volunteers work on customers bikes.

                      The employees do not strike me as trust fund babies.

                      As to why I didn't seek remediation, I'm busy. I assumed, also, that perhaps
                      because I am large, because I had a relatively low input gearing, that it was
                      simply not up to the torque and this was how it would behave under that
                      treatment. Add to that this is one of the freewheels-between-gears hubs (even
                      when it is working properly) and I am more than a little interested in maybe just
                      building a new wheel around a new hub without that "feature", rather than
                      invest more time and money in something that has not made me happy.
                      It would be nifty to have the historically accurate hub and (ALL STEEL) rim,
                      but not if it doesn't work reliably.

                      And as a general rule, I don't have good luck being a complaining customer,
                      so instead I just just don't go back, or don't continue to buy the product. You
                      know the rule about how the complaining customers are doing the business a
                      favorite, because most dissatisfied customers don't come back? I'm one of the
                      ones who doesn't come back.

                      I also considered having it rebuilt at Harris, but (a) I took just the wheel there
                      first, and they sent me away saying they needed to see the entire bike (under
                      the assumption, I think, that I was not capable of adjusting a 3-speed hub
                      accurately and diagnosing the problem) and (b) I didn't have good luck there
                      when my SRAM failed, so I was under-enthusiastic anyway.

                      David

                      On 2012-03-30, at 1:58 PM, Al wrote:

                      > Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School's web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for repair ----and possible any bike at all. This "workers' cooperative" and its so-called "workers" are no doubt transients and for the most part and trust-fund-babies who are skylarking or playing at bike repair. I should imagine such a shop is without the discipline that in a traditionally structured business gives assurance to the customer that the repair will be conscientiously repaired and stood-behind. It is of little wonder that your hub is not working properly
                      >
                      > Al in Philadelphia
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Al <k3eax@...>
                      > To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:36 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW
                      >
                      >
                      > David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW? In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.
                      >
                      > Al



                    • Colin Bryant
                      I have to ask how you see workers cooperative and jump to no doubt transients and trust-fund-babies ?  I can t see how any shop, co-op owned or not,
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 30 12:36 PM
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                        I have to ask how you see "workers cooperative" and jump to "no doubt transients" and "trust-fund-babies"?  I can't see how any shop, co-op owned or not, would be running after more than three decades if it's service was as poor as you're suggesting.
                         
                        --

                        Colin Bryant
                        Vancouver, Canada

                        From: Al <k3eax@...>
                        To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:58:47 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                         
                         Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School's web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for repair  ----and possible any bike at all. This "workers' cooperative"  and its so-called "workers" are no doubt transients and for the most part and trust-fund-babies who are skylarking or playing at bike repair.  I should imagine such a shop is without the discipline that in a traditionally structured business gives assurance to the customer that the repair will be conscientiously repaired and stood-behind. It is of little wonder that your hub is not working properly

                          Al in Philadelphia


                        From: Al <k3eax@...>
                        To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:36 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                         
                          David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW?  In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.

                            Al

                        From: Al <k3eax@...>
                        To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:38 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                         
                          David, I've been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I've rebuilt have failed because my errors   ----- fortunately only  a few over the years.

                           Al

                        From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
                        To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                         

                        On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

                        >
                        > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

                        Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
                        When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

                        David









                      • Al
                        Ok, so maybe I m wrong? My perception results from  what I expereinced/observed in the 60 s and 70 s.      Al ________________________________ From:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 30 1:35 PM
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                          Ok, so maybe I'm wrong? My perception results from  what I expereinced/observed in the '60's and '70's.

                               Al

                          From: Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...>
                          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 3:36 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                           
                          I have to ask how you see "workers cooperative" and jump to "no doubt transients" and "trust-fund-babies"?  I can't see how any shop, co-op owned or not, would be running after more than three decades if it's service was as poor as you're suggesting.
                           
                          --

                          Colin Bryant
                          Vancouver, Canada
                          From: Al <k3eax@...>
                          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:58:47 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                           
                           Oh my Gawd! David, I just checked the Broadway Bicycle School's web page and I must say that is the last place I would advise anyone to take a SA hub for repair  ----and possible any bike at all. This "workers' cooperative"  and its so-called "workers" are no doubt transients and for the most part and trust-fund-babies who are skylarking or playing at bike repair.  I should imagine such a shop is without the discipline that in a traditionally structured business gives assurance to the customer that the repair will be conscientiously repaired and stood-behind. It is of little wonder that your hub is not working properly

                            Al in Philadelphia


                          From: Al <k3eax@...>
                          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:36 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                           
                            David the question arises, why didn't you seek remediation of the problem you're have with the repaired AW?  In the trade we call such a "come-back" and any reputable shop will do the job again and make it right for the customer. After paying what I should imagine to be a fair number of dollars for the repair, you rightfully have the expectation of the hub performing up to factory standards. And, from your description of the hub's performance, it is not.

                              Al

                          From: Al <k3eax@...>
                          To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:38 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                           
                            David, I've been  an automobile mechanic with the certification, A.S.E Master Auto Tech./Advanced Engine Performance. And yes, transmissions that I've rebuilt have failed because my errors   ----- fortunately only  a few over the years.

                             Al

                          From: David Chase <dr2chase@...>
                          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                           

                          On 2012-03-30, at 11:03 AM, Al wrote:

                          >
                          > David, perhaps your placing too much confidence in the skill of the professional who rebuilt your hub?

                          Supposed to be the best in the Boston area -- Broadway Bicycle School.
                          When the other shops don't have the Raleigh-related part, they send you there.

                          David











                        • k3eax
                          http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/about/ Do you blame me for the way see this organization? Just look at this staff photo! I wouldn t allow them to check tire
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 30 2:31 PM
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                            http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/about/

                            Do you blame me for the way "see" this organization? Just look at this staff photo! I wouldn't allow them to check tire pressure!

                            I hope I haven't offended but I've no intention of being PC in any sort of way.

                            Al in Philadelphia
                          • misterbleepy
                            Oh my, they re young and one has yellow hair - RUN FOR THE HILLLSSS!!! or alternatively why not read the paragraph under the photo: Broadway was started as a
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 30 3:19 PM
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                              Oh my, they're young and one has yellow hair - RUN FOR THE HILLLSSS!!!

                              or alternatively why not read the paragraph under the photo:

                              "Broadway was started as a worker co-op in 1972 because the kind folks
                              who started the project wanted to work in a democratic and egalitarian
                              workplace. We enjoy working with co-workers as equals. We also
                              maintain that a better business can be built by the contributions of a
                              group of invested worker-owners. We feel we can provide better wages,
                              a better work environment and better service."

                              sounds like a reasonable way to run a business to me, but then that's
                              just my opinion.

                              Keith in Cornwall

                              On 30 March 2012 22:31, k3eax <k3eax@...> wrote:
                              > http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/about/
                              >
                              >  Do you blame me for the way "see" this organization? Just look at this staff photo! I wouldn't allow them to check tire pressure!
                              >
                              >  I hope I haven't offended but I've no intention of being PC in any sort of way.
                              >
                              >   Al in Philadelphia
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Jonathan Gutoff
                              I m a native of Boston, and now live about 50 miles south, in Providence, RI.  The reputation of the shop has always been good.  For what it s worth, one of
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 30 6:23 PM
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                                I'm a native of Boston, and now live about 50 miles south, in Providence, RI.  The reputation of the shop has always been good.  For what it's worth, one of the founders of Broadway Bicycle, when it was the Bicycle Repair Collective, was the late, great Sheldon Brown.  

                                From: misterbleepy <misterbleepy@...>
                                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 6:19 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                                 
                                Oh my, they're young and one has yellow hair - RUN FOR THE HILLLSSS!!!

                                or alternatively why not read the paragraph under the photo:

                                "Broadway was started as a worker co-op in 1972 because the kind folks
                                who started the project wanted to work in a democratic and egalitarian
                                workplace. We enjoy working with co-workers as equals. We also
                                maintain that a better business can be built by the contributions of a
                                group of invested worker-owners. We feel we can provide better wages,
                                a better work environment and better service."

                                sounds like a reasonable way to run a business to me, but then that's
                                just my opinion.

                                Keith in Cornwall

                                On 30 March 2012 22:31, k3eax <k3eax@...> wrote:
                                > http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/about/
                                >
                                >  Do you blame me for the way "see" this organization? Just look at this staff photo! I wouldn't allow them to check tire pressure!
                                >
                                >  I hope I haven't offended but I've no intention of being PC in any sort of way.
                                >
                                >   Al in Philadelphia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >


                              • jim
                                Oh no!  Their picture doesn t meet my very rigid standards for appearance and perceived acceptable work roles.  It scares me to give people who dress and
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 30 6:56 PM
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                                  Oh no!  Their picture doesn't meet my very rigid standards for appearance and perceived acceptable work roles.  It scares me to give people who dress and maybe live differently than me the benefit of the doubt and so I just gotta post a borish, libelous and ultimately pointless opinion into the inboxes of all the group. Plus I get that bad-little-boy thrill from acting rude and what're ya gonna do about it, anyway??




                                  --- On Fri, 3/30/12, Jonathan Gutoff <gutoff@...> wrote:

                                  From: Jonathan Gutoff <gutoff@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Forty-year work career & SA-AW
                                  To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 9:23 PM

                                   

                                  I'm a native of Boston, and now live about 50 miles south, in Providence, RI.  The reputation of the shop has always been good.  For what it's worth, one of the founders of Broadway Bicycle, when it was the Bicycle Repair Collective, was the late, great Sheldon Brown.  

                                  From: misterbleepy <misterbleepy@...>
                                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 6:19 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Forty-year work career & SA-AW

                                   
                                  Oh my, they're young and one has yellow hair - RUN FOR THE HILLLSSS!!!

                                  or alternatively why not read the paragraph under the photo:

                                  "Broadway was started as a worker co-op in 1972 because the kind folks
                                  who started the project wanted to work in a democratic and egalitarian
                                  workplace. We enjoy working with co-workers as equals. We also
                                  maintain that a better business can be built by the contributions of a
                                  group of invested worker-owners. We feel we can provide better wages,
                                  a better work environment and better service."

                                  sounds like a reasonable way to run a business to me, but then that's
                                  just my opinion.

                                  Keith in Cornwall

                                  On 30 March 2012 22:31, k3eax <k3eax@...> wrote:
                                  > http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/about/
                                  >
                                  >  Do you blame me for the way "see" this organization? Just look at this staff photo! I wouldn't allow them to check tire pressure!
                                  >
                                  >  I hope I haven't offended but I've no intention of being PC in any sort of way.
                                  >
                                  >   Al in Philadelphia
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                • pj
                                  David, S-A began to offer to OEMs a model of the AW (called, curiously enough, the AW-NIG, for No Inbetween Gear) that had no neutral between 2nd & 3rd in
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 31 5:42 AM
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                                    David,

                                    S-A began to offer to OEMs a model of the AW (called, curiously enough, the AW-NIG, for No Inbetween Gear) that had no neutral between 2nd & 3rd in 1984. Since 2001 that's all they have made.

                                    Yes, on an older bike you could replace the 1936-2000 AW hub with a 2001-2012 AW-NIG and no one short of a concours judge would notice. This is what I recommend to people if they for some reason require a replacement, even in the face of an abundant supply of used and inexpensive AW hubs in the world. biketoolsetc.com usually has the AW-NIG in stock for retail purchase, but any bike shop can order one for you from United Bicycle Supply. These come complete with new cables and classic trigger shifters.

                                    The AW-NIG internal mechanism will fit into most but not all of the AW hub shells built over the years.

                                    However, I personally don't believe all is lost for your current hub. If your present AW is slipping in 1st gear, the factory fault-finding chart suggests:
                                    1) Sliding clutch nosed off - fit new
                                    2) Indicator not fully home - screw in all the way
                                    3) Weak low gear pawl springs - replace
                                    4) R.H. cone wrongly adjusted - re-adjust
                                    5) Trigger cable end bad or kinks or cable drag - fit new cable/housing, optimize run
                                    6) Twisted indicator chain due to over tightening - replace. Be sure to get the correct one for your axle length.


                                    If it is fluctuating between 1st and 2nd:
                                    1) Faulty or worn ring gear pawls - replace both

                                    These hubs are not hard to work on and all parts are available.

                                    One must of course start any fault diagnosis from the state of a clean and properly lubricated hub with freely moving parts.

                                    HTH,
                                    pj
                                  • Al
                                     Pj, is the AW-NIG version made between 1984 and 2000 identifiable by any markings inscribed on the hub?     Al Pj, is the AW-NIG version made between
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 31 6:05 AM
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                                       Pj, is the AW-NIG version made between 1984 and 2000 identifiable by any markings inscribed on the hub?

                                          Al


                                       
                                        
                                    • pj
                                      ... These rascals must be pretty rare; I ve certainly never seen one. Sturmey-ArcherHeritage.com doesn t even have a picture of one. The 1980s were dark
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 31 3:54 PM
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                                        > is the AW-NIG version made between 1984 and 2000
                                        > identifiable by any markings inscribed on the hub?

                                        These rascals must be pretty rare; I've certainly never seen one. Sturmey-ArcherHeritage.com doesn't even have a picture of one. The 1980s were dark times for IGHs, and the -NIG was more expensive that the regular S-A three speed design (which had been serving well for 50 years by that point), so I'm not sure if any OEM other than U.S.A.'s Columbia picked it up. I've never seen any documentation to make me believe S-A offered these hubs in the consumer aftermarket. The best way for a die-hard "gotta have it" Sturmey collector to find one would be on a late 1980s Columbia bicycle.

                                        There's no mistaking the way they operate, though: no 'neutral' between 2nd and 3rd.

                                        On the other hand, a hub with -NIG isn't hard to find at all. The -NIG was incorporated into all 5-speeds in 1991, and the seven speeds all worked that way as well. Any post 2000 (SunRace) Sturmey-Archer hub will have an -NIG mechanism.

                                        pj
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