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Re: Alfine 8 = not for me !

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  • jbabic@sbcglobal.net
    I concur. The symptoms described made me think of frame flex right away (especially going uphill.) You mentioned you will be converting back to derailleurs.
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 11, 2012
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      I concur. The symptoms described made me think of frame flex right away (especially going uphill.)

      You mentioned you will be converting 'back' to derailleurs. I'll take a guess that you used the same shift cable and routing which likely included a partially housed cable. A fully housed shifting cable should solve this for you. It will be easier than switching back to derailleurs and take less effort than switching out the rear wheel.

      What have you got to lose?


      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'll second Alex, on this.  Your frame is flexing, causing the cable to move.  Run full cable housing all the way from your shifter to the cassette joint.
      >
      >  
      > --
      > Colin Bryant
      > Vancouver, Canada
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: david <davidfolch@...>
      > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:28:58 AM
      > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Alfine 8 = not for me !
      >
      >
      >  
      > Hello all,
      > I'm reading this group for a while.
      > I've been using an Alfine8 on my 68cm Bill Davidson for almost a year and I'm not happy with it.
      > It shift by itself, gears skips (very dangerous when standing on the pedals, uphill)...
      > I read that it might be the torque input ratio that isn't for long -powerful- legs.
      > I'm 6f6, 99cm inseam, around 200 pounds and apparently I put too much torque (180mm cranks) on the hub.
      > It's really sad, I'd have loved to keep it, but I'm converting back my frame to a normal drivetrain with derailleurs (not being able to afford a Rohloff).
      > just my 2cts... but Alfine8 is NOT for long legs or powerful legs.
      >
      > best regards
      >
    • david
      Thanks everybody for the input. Yes the cable is bare, thanks for the tip, I ll try to run the housing all the way. I guess you re right, frame flex might be
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 11, 2012
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        Thanks everybody for the input.
        Yes the cable is bare, thanks for the tip, I'll try to run the housing all the way.
        I guess you're right, frame flex might be the explanation for weird shifting and (maybe) for the gears to skip (even if it also happen randomly when not mashing uphill)
        I really think that the Alfine isn't made to take the torque some riders are able to put in the hub...

        thanks again and I'll post if I decide to sell it.
        ;-)

        cheers
      • Alex Wetmore
        The random shifting will occur even when not mashing if the rear section of housing is too sharp and contains a sharp bend. The default location of cable
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 11, 2012
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          The random shifting will occur even when not mashing if the rear section of housing is too sharp and contains a sharp bend. The default location of cable housing stops does cause this. The sharp bend prevents the cable from moving smoothly and it will sometimes be stuck between gears.

          The Alfine does pretty well with high torque, but I've experienced this problem on bicycles with poor cable routing.

          alex

          ________________________________________
          From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of david [davidfolch@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:10 AM
          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Alfine 8 = not for me !

          Thanks everybody for the input.
          Yes the cable is bare, thanks for the tip, I'll try to run the housing all the way.
          I guess you're right, frame flex might be the explanation for weird shifting and (maybe) for the gears to skip (even if it also happen randomly when not mashing uphill)
          I really think that the Alfine isn't made to take the torque some riders are able to put in the hub...

          thanks again and I'll post if I decide to sell it.
          ;-)

          cheers




          ------------------------------------

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        • aarons_bicycle_repair
          ... SECONDED! I fixed 2 Alfine shifting problems just this week by using full housing. Also, some barrel adjusters have too much slop and can cause the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 11, 2012
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            > An easy way to fix this is to run full housing from the shifter to the hub.

            SECONDED!


            I "fixed" 2 Alfine shifting problems just this week by using full housing. Also, some barrel adjusters have too much slop and can cause the cable to move just enough for a shift jump.
            I have yet to see a Shimano 8 speed hub damaged from shifting or use. They are quite durable hubs. Some of the newer ones are even coming with more lubrication! I was quite amazed at the latest hub I opened for weatherization. It acutally had enough lube. Not high quality lube because it was already dirty after only 3 month's use but it was there at least.
          • stephen lewis
            Hi Aaron I will be sending you mine for repair next week with my tail between my legs and in abject shame... I doubt there s much lubrication left at all.
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 12, 2012
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              Hi Aaron
              I will be sending you mine for repair next week with my tail between my legs and in abject shame... I doubt there's much lubrication left at all. Still, despite useless owners like me, the Alfine 8 gives very fine service indeed. I'm running an Alfine 11 now, and am finding the set up more temperamental than the 8 but when it's running it's nice and smooth.
              Regards from Singapore
              Stephen

              From: aarons_bicycle_repair <aaron@...>
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 12 January 2012, 8:48
              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Alfine 8 = not for me !

               


              > An easy way to fix this is to run full housing from the shifter to the hub.

              SECONDED!

              I "fixed" 2 Alfine shifting problems just this week by using full housing. Also, some barrel adjusters have too much slop and can cause the cable to move just enough for a shift jump.
              I have yet to see a Shimano 8 speed hub damaged from shifting or use. They are quite durable hubs. Some of the newer ones are even coming with more lubrication! I was quite amazed at the latest hub I opened for weatherization. It acutally had enough lube. Not high quality lube because it was already dirty after only 3 month's use but it was there at least.



            • Michael Wilson
              Mu alfine 8 requires very precise adjustment to not skip. Admittedly I am shifting with an 8 speed brifter and a travel agent. Since I was about 20 I have
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 12, 2012
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                Mu alfine 8 requires very precise adjustment to not skip.  Admittedly I am shifting with an 8 speed brifter and a travel agent.
                 
                Since I was about 20 I have always routed my IGH cables down the seat stays rather than along the chain stays.  On old Sturmey Archer bikes this meant that adjusting chain tension had way less effect on the hub adjustment.  It also meant that frame flex had less of an effect.  My younger brother used to refer to these symptoms as "womens trouble" because it was hard to do this routing on a womens frame.
                 
                Another thing I do not like about chain stay cable routing is the cables get dirtier down there than they do on the seat stay.
                 
                Michael Wilson
              • Alex Wetmore
                I wouldn t evaluate general shifting of the Alfine based on using the Travel Agent hack. That is one of those things that kind of works, but it is pretty far
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 12, 2012
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                  I wouldn't evaluate general shifting of the Alfine based on using the Travel Agent hack.  That is one of those things that kind of works, but it is pretty far off from the stock shifter.  When I get my shifter measuring fixture back I could measure it just to see how far off it is.

                  Does your bike have horizontal or vertical dropouts and does one of the standard Alfine/Nexus keyed washers line up properly for running the shifter cable up the seatstay?  I'm building a new Alfine specific bicycle now and may play with that option for the cable routing.

                  alex


                  From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Michael Wilson [mtwils@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 7:34 AM
                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Alfine 8 = not for me !



                  Mu alfine 8 requires very precise adjustment to not skip.  Admittedly I am shifting with an 8 speed brifter and a travel agent.
                   
                  Since I was about 20 I have always routed my IGH cables down the seat stays rather than along the chain stays.  On old Sturmey Archer bikes this meant that adjusting chain tension had way less effect on the hub adjustment.  It also meant that frame flex had less of an effect.  My younger brother used to refer to these symptoms as "womens trouble" because it was hard to do this routing on a womens frame.
                   
                  Another thing I do not like about chain stay cable routing is the cables get dirtier down there than they do on the seat stay.
                   
                  Michael Wilson


                • Michael Wilson
                  Alex Wetmore writes: I wouldn t evaluate general shifting of the Alfine based on using the Travel Agent hack. ... I have ZERO issues shifting the Alfine 8 with
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 13, 2012
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                    Alex Wetmore writes:
                    I wouldn't evaluate general shifting of the Alfine based on using the Travel Agent hack.
                     
                    --------
                    I have ZERO issues shifting the Alfine 8 with the brifter and travel agent.
                     
                    My bike is a 30 year old Raleigh Grand Prix frame with forward-facing what-used-to-be-called horizontal dropouts.  I am using the standard Nexus hardware at the hub, with the travel agent at the hub.  This means that the cable is pointing towards the back while the travel agent does a 90 degree turn.  But my memory is that there were enough different keyed washers that I could find a washer to do what I want.
                     
                    One issue with modern IGH hubs is whether there is an issue with water falling into the place where the cable enters the hub end of the shifting.  The Rohloff for example is probably not tolerant of water entering the cable drum that is used for disc brake hubs.
                     
                    I did plan to put the travel agent at the seat lug and run open cable, but that will probably never happen.
                     
                    Michael Wilson
                  • Cycle Monkey
                    No hub is going to work for long if water runs into it - at least none that I have come across. The Rohloff Speedhub is well sealed against this possibility
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 13, 2012
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                      No hub is going to work for long if water runs into it - at least none that I have come across.  The Rohloff Speedhub is well sealed against this possibility though.  The cable box on the EX shift mech (included with disc models) is not sealed from water, but it is well isolated from the internals of the hub.  If you have concerns about water getting inside your cable box, the assembly can be filled with grease or sealed with silicone.

                      Neil

                      --
                      Neil Flock
                      Owner

                      Cycle Monkey
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                    • aarons_bicycle_repair
                      For a custom bike, and with someone uber mechanical (like you Alex) you could skip the cassette joint and weld on a SA type pully on the seat tube. End the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 13, 2012
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                        For a custom bike, and with someone uber mechanical (like you Alex) you could skip the cassette joint and weld on a SA type pully on the seat tube. End the housing at a stop on the top tube with an integrated barrel adjuster. It would be cool routing! Set up would not be that difficult.

                        Full housing is recommended because the down tube is usually the route where the dirt is and because most hubs are retrofit to bikes.

                        I would be interested in helping you with the project of offering advice. I would also like to see your shifter jig when you get it back. When is the next SAMBA meeting?

                        To those not in the know, Alex builds frames and SAMBA means Seattle Area Something Bicycle Something.......Alex?


                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Alex Wetmore <alex@...> wrote:
                        > I'm building a new Alfine specific bicycle now and may play with that option for the cable routing.
                        >
                        > alex
                        >
                      • aarons_bicycle_repair
                        ... Which Brifter are you using?
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 14, 2012
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                          > I have ZERO issues shifting the Alfine 8 with the brifter and travel agent.
                          >

                          Which "Brifter" are you using?
                        • jbabic@sbcglobal.net
                          I thought of this problem when reading Aaron s post here and wondered if the two were related.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 19, 2012
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                            I thought of this problem when reading Aaron's post here and wondered if the two were related.

                            http://www.rideyourbike.com/shimanoaxleunit.shtml

                            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "david" <davidfolch@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello all,
                            > I'm reading this group for a while.
                            > I've been using an Alfine8 on my 68cm Bill Davidson for almost a year and I'm not happy with it.
                            > It shift by itself, gears skips (very dangerous when standing on the pedals, uphill)...
                            > I read that it might be the torque input ratio that isn't for long -powerful- legs.
                            > I'm 6f6, 99cm inseam, around 200 pounds and apparently I put too much torque (180mm cranks) on the hub.
                            > It's really sad, I'd have loved to keep it, but I'm converting back my frame to a normal drivetrain with derailleurs (not being able to afford a Rohloff).
                            > just my 2cts... but Alfine8 is NOT for long legs or powerful legs.
                            >
                            > best regards
                            >
                          • david
                            Thanks all, I m meeting with my mechanic this week to go into it. cheers
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 24, 2012
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                              Thanks all, I'm meeting with my mechanic this week to go into it.

                              cheers
                            • david
                              Hi all, a little update on my Alfine experience. We ran a full housing for the shifter cable. I would love to feel an improvement, but I ve been still
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 27, 2012
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                                Hi all, a little update on my Alfine experience.
                                We ran a full housing for the shifter cable. I would love to feel an improvement, but I've been still experiencing some gear shifting. Not even mashing uphill.
                                I think this test is coming to an end (on top of the wrong geometry for me on the bike I fitted the hub).
                                If anyone is interested in buying the wheel, I'm in SF. I also have the front dynamo wheel matching.
                                contact me via MP please
                                cheers
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