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Sturmey-Archer X-RD5 (not W) okay to use?

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  • cyklarna
    Is there a compelling reason to avoid the X-RD5 hub? The hub I have dates from 2008 so is the previous non-wide ratio version. It is unused and would go on a
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 13, 2011
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      Is there a compelling reason to avoid the X-RD5 hub? The hub I have dates from 2008 so is the previous non-wide ratio version. It is unused and would go on a 20" wheeled folding bike.
    • Jim Avery
      ... I had one one my heavy steel 26 -wheeled bike and managed to wreck it by honking up very steep hills. So long as you re not going to treat it stupidly
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 13, 2011
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        On 14 November 2011 07:02, cyklarna <chgoland77@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is there a compelling reason to avoid the X-RD5 hub? The hub I have dates from 2008 so is the previous non-wide ratio version. It is unused and would go on a 20" wheeled folding bike.

        I had one one my heavy steel 26"-wheeled bike and managed to wreck it
        by honking up very steep hills.

        So long as you're not going to treat it stupidly harshly, then yes, go for it.

        I'm currently contemplating putting an XL-RD3 on my Dahon 20"-wheeled
        folder. I'm going to need some very short spokes! :-)
      • Mark Stonich
        ... From a recent posting by Aaron. ... Since you already own the hub it might be worth it. Questions for Aaron; Do the pre-(W) versions use the same soft
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 14, 2011
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          Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Sturmey-Archer X-RD5 (not W) okay t
           Is there a compelling reason to avoid the X-RD5 hub? The hub I have dates from 2008 so is the previous non-wide ratio version. It is unused and would go on a 20" wheeled folding bike.

          From a recent posting by Aaron.
           The current wide range 5 speeds suffer from sliding keys that are too soft and mushroom over causing the sun gear to slip off. Adjustment is finicky too. According to SA-USA you have to have the adjustment within a millimeter or the hub will slip. For comparison, AW hubs have about a 3mm cable tension adjustment range.

          Since you already own the hub it might be worth it.

          Questions for Aaron;
          Do the pre-(W) versions use the same soft sliding key?
          Are replacement keys available?
          Is the failure mode catastrophic or can the bike still be ridden home or does the shifting just degrade?

          Questions for the OP
          Do you build your own wheels? (This is a factor in how much $$ you lose if this doesn't work out.)
          Are you the sort of rider who will remember to shift carefully, turning the cranks but applying little or no pressure.
          Are you someone who will keep a close eye on cable adjustment?
          Would you be able to replace the key (if available)?
          Is your folder a daily rider or used only occasionally?

          Using a 20" wheel means less torque loading for a given gear inch spread.  However, I don't know enough about the single cable hubs to know if this is a factor for the failure mode Aaron describes.
          -- 
          
            
          Mark Stonich;  
            BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
              5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                 Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
        • pj
          ... The 2008 hubs are the 1998-2009 Summit ball-locking design. Completely different. ... For the W hubs? Sturmey PN HSA663. Yes.
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 14, 2011
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            > Do the pre-(W) versions use the same soft sliding key?

            The 2008 hubs are the 1998-2009 "Summit" ball-locking design. Completely different.

            > Are replacement keys available?

            For the "W" hubs? Sturmey PN HSA663. Yes.
          • cyklarna
            I would build my own wheels so wouldn t be out too much if the hub dies. Also, this bike would get occasional, mostly flatland use and I try not to abuse my
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 14, 2011
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              I would build my own wheels so wouldn't be out too much if the hub dies. Also, this bike would get occasional, mostly flatland use and I try not to abuse my gears.

              > Questions for the OP
              > Do you build your own wheels? (This is a factor in how much $$ you
              > lose if this doesn't work out.)
              > Are you the sort of rider who will remember to shift carefully,
              > turning the cranks but applying little or no pressure.
              > Are you someone who will keep a close eye on cable adjustment?
              > Would you be able to replace the key (if available)?
              > Is your folder a daily rider or used only occasionally?
              >
              > Using a 20" wheel means less torque loading for a given gear inch
              > spread. However, I don't know enough about the single cable hubs to
              > know if this is a factor for the failure mode Aaron describes.
              > --
              >
              > Mark Stonich;
              > BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
              > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
              > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
              >
            • aarons_bicycle_repair
              The first Taiwan Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hubs used a ball bearing design just like a previous English Made version. Most of the parts are interchangeable! The
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 15, 2011
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                The first Taiwan Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hubs used a ball bearing design just like a previous English Made version. Most of the parts are interchangeable! The problem with the ball bearing locked sun gear design is that too high of input torque causes the sun gears to over-ride the balls denting the inside of the sun gear and the internal sliding rod that pushes the balls outward. After that, the sun gears AND axle must be replaced or the hub will skip in gear.

                The Taiwan Wide Range 5 speeds again use an older English design and parts are similar, but not the same as the older hubs. The problem with the current stock of (W) hubs, in my opinion, is that the sliding key is not hard enough. It mushroooms too easily. The fix is to replace the sliding key assembly inside the axle. A very simple procedure and parts are readily available. If SA were to re-engineer the hub to have the sliding key protrude out both sides of the axle, durability would be better. SRAM P5 and S7 hubs use that design.

                You can see diagrams of these hubs on http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history&type=technic&era=2

                Before either of these designs SA used dogs on the axle or a "negative" sun gear fixed to the axle to hold the sun pinions stationary. The earlier designs are much more durable than the either new design but as you know shifting was not as slick/simple.

                Both of the modern Taiwan SA hubs can still be ridden home if they start to skip, you just have to use easy pressure on the pedals. Both problems are easily fixed with new parts and I have not seen any damage to the gear teeth on either hub with one exception. The ball bearing locked sun gears sometimes crack.

                Cheers, Aaron




                > From a recent posting by Aaron.
                > > The current wide range 5 speeds suffer from sliding keys that are
                > >too soft and mushroom over causing the sun gear to slip off.
                > >Adjustment is finicky too. According to SA-USA you have to have the
                > >adjustment within a millimeter or the hub will slip. For comparison,
                > >AW hubs have about a 3mm cable tension adjustment range.
                >
                > Since you already own the hub it might be worth it.
                >
                > Questions for Aaron;
                > Do the pre-(W) versions use the same soft sliding key?
                > Are replacement keys available?
                > Is the failure mode catastrophic or can the bike still be ridden home
                > or does the shifting just degrade?
                >
              • aarons_bicycle_repair
                The broken sun gear I mentioned earlier was an older ladies bike with 26 wheels. The ball bearing design was used on many English folding bikes. I have seen
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 15, 2011
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                  The broken sun gear I mentioned earlier was an older ladies bike with 26" wheels.
                  The ball bearing design was used on many English folding bikes. I have seen it on older Bromptons with no problems.

                  > Using a 20" wheel means less torque loading for a given gear inch
                  > spread. However, I don't know enough about the single cable hubs to
                  > know if this is a factor for the failure mode Aaron describes.
                • aarons_bicycle_repair
                  We stock sun gears and axles for the ball bearing type and sliding keys for the wide range hubs. They are in this picture, but hiding behind the dividers!
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 15, 2011
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                    We stock sun gears and axles for the ball bearing type and sliding keys for the wide range hubs.
                    They are in this picture, but hiding behind the dividers!
                    http://www.rideyourbike.com/images/internalgear/partsdrawersa3.jpg

                    Cheers, Aaron

                    Aaron's Bicycle Repair
                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Do the pre-(W) versions use the same soft sliding key?
                    >
                    > The 2008 hubs are the 1998-2009 "Summit" ball-locking design. Completely different.
                    >
                    > > Are replacement keys available?
                    >
                    > For the "W" hubs? Sturmey PN HSA663. Yes.
                    >
                  • Dan Burkhart
                    ... I have one of these with over 2,000 km on it and it has functioned flawlessly year round. I weigh 245 lb, and have pedaled it up some pretty good grades,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 16, 2011
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                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "cyklarna" <chgoland77@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Is there a compelling reason to avoid the X-RD5 hub? The hub I have dates from 2008 so is the previous non-wide ratio version. It is unused and would go on a 20" wheeled folding bike.
                      >
                      I have one of these with over 2,000 km on it and it has functioned flawlessly year round. I weigh 245 lb, and have pedaled it up some pretty good grades, although I do not stand to pedal. I figure when it's time to stand up to ride a gearhub, it's time to walk.
                      I had another one laying around that I just built into an E bike for my wife this year, and it also works flawlessly.
                      I would not be afraid of it.
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