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Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH opinions

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  • Rick Paulos
    What sort of flexibility? Higher high, lower low or more in between ratios? The high/low is about the same on both. The 5 speed has those 2 gap fillers. The
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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      What sort of flexibility? Higher high, lower low or more in between
      ratios? The high/low is about the same on both. The 5 speed has
      those 2 gap fillers.

      The old adage for 3 speeds is "Too High, Too Low and Not Quite
      Right" So a 5 speed could certainly be an improvement on available
      ratios. But on the Gentleman Cyclists list with the aging members
      it's usually TOO HIGH and how soon can I put a 22T cog on.

      If you ride in a hilly area, a wider range is great or you might need
      a lower low which can be easily accomplished with a larger cog in the
      rear. Live in flat lands, then closer spaced gears are preferred.

      rick

      At 10:27 AM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
      >We have older, 2 cable S5s on 8 bikes and find them quite reliable.
      >I prefer the internal simplicity of the 2 cable models over the
      >external simplicity of the newer, single cable ones.
      >
      >We have them geared such that we spend about an equal amount of time
      >in 3rd (direct) and 4th. We're not very quick. So in my case
      >that's 42/22 on 26" wheels and Jane is running 36/22.
      >
      > >Hello
      > >
      > >I've heard some mixed reviews of the SA 5. Can any forum members
      > >share their feedback of this IGH with me----
      > >
      > >I'm looking for more gearing flexibility than the current shimano
      > >lexus 3 speed that's on my bike.
      > >
      > >Thanks much.
      > >sindlero
      >
      >--
      >
      >Mark Stonich;
      > BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
      > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
      > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Jud Jones
      I don¹t know how the Shimano 3-speed is geared, but my 5-speed Sturmeys are geared just like an AW, with the addition of a taller high gear, and a lower low.
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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        Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH opinions I don’t know how the Shimano 3-speed is geared, but my 5-speed Sturmeys  are geared just like an AW, with the addition of a taller high gear, and a lower low. That gives a pretty broad spread (but still not quite broad enough to haul my fat butt up the Bay City hill on a 20T cog).


        On 11/10/11 1:42 PM, "Rick Paulos" <rick-paulos@...> wrote:


         
         
           

        What sort of flexibility?  Higher high, lower low or more in between
        ratios?  The high/low is about the same on both. The 5 speed has
        those 2 gap fillers.

        The old adage for 3 speeds is "Too High, Too Low and Not Quite
        Right"  So a 5 speed could certainly be an improvement on available
        ratios.  But on the Gentleman Cyclists list with the aging members
        it's usually TOO HIGH and how soon can I put a 22T cog on.

        If you ride in a hilly area, a wider range is great or you might need
        a lower low which can be easily accomplished with a larger cog in the
        rear.  Live in flat lands, then closer spaced gears are preferred.

        rick

        At 10:27 AM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
        >We have older, 2 cable S5s on 8 bikes and find them quite reliable.
        >I prefer the internal simplicity of the 2 cable models over the
        >external simplicity of the newer, single cable ones.
        >
        >We have them geared such that we spend about an equal amount of time
        >in 3rd (direct) and 4th.   We're not very quick.  So in my case
        >that's 42/22 on 26" wheels and Jane is running 36/22.
        >
        > >Hello
        > >
        > >I've heard some mixed reviews of the SA 5. Can any forum members
        > >share their feedback of this IGH with me----
        > >
        > >I'm looking for more gearing flexibility than the current shimano
        > >lexus 3 speed that's on my bike.
        > >
        > >Thanks much.
        > >sindlero
        >
        >--
        >
        >Mark Stonich;
        >    BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
        >      5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
        >         Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >

         
           



      • owensindler
        Hello I d like to thank everyone who replied to my asking for help. I think a good thing for me is to sit with a gear chart and figure out a setup that would
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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          Hello

          I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my asking for help.

          I think a good thing for me is to sit with a gear chart and figure out
          a setup that would work. It's good to know that the SA 5 speed is a reliable product.

          Thanks again.
          sindlero
          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:.


          >
          > What sort of flexibility? Higher high, lower low or more in between
          > ratios? The high/low is about the same on both. The 5 speed has
          > those 2 gap fillers.
          >
          > The old adage for 3 speeds is "Too High, Too Low and Not Quite
          > Right" So a 5 speed could certainly be an improvement on available
          > ratios. But on the Gentleman Cyclists list with the aging members
          > it's usually TOO HIGH and how soon can I put a 22T cog on.
          >
          > If you ride in a hilly area, a wider range is great or you might need
          > a lower low which can be easily accomplished with a larger cog in the
          > rear. Live in flat lands, then closer spaced gears are preferred.
          >
          > rick
          >
          > At 10:27 AM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
          > >We have older, 2 cable S5s on 8 bikes and find them quite reliable.
          > >I prefer the internal simplicity of the 2 cable models over the
          > >external simplicity of the newer, single cable ones.
          > >
          > >We have them geared such that we spend about an equal amount of time
          > >in 3rd (direct) and 4th. We're not very quick. So in my case
          > >that's 42/22 on 26" wheels and Jane is running 36/22.
          > >
          > > >Hello
          > > >
          > > >I've heard some mixed reviews of the SA 5. Can any forum members
          > > >share their feedback of this IGH with me----
          > > >
          > > >I'm looking for more gearing flexibility than the current shimano
          > > >lexus 3 speed that's on my bike.
          > > >
          > > >Thanks much.
          > > >sindlero
          > >
          > >--
          > >
          > >Mark Stonich;
          > > BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
          > > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
          > > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
          > >
          > >
          > >------------------------------------
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Rick Paulos
          Okay, I ll admit I didn t know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but here are some for sale on ebay: www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420 How popular could they have
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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            Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
            here are some for sale on ebay:

            www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

            How popular could they have been?

            Rick
          • Rick Paulos
            The old time (60s & 70s) Shimano 3 speed hubs were geared the same as the SA AW. The shimano outer shell size was a bit smaller as were the internals but the
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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              The old time (60s & 70s) Shimano 3 speed hubs were geared the same as
              the SA AW.
              The shimano outer shell size was a bit smaller as were the internals
              but the ratios were the same.

              low is a 25% reduction from 2nd.
              middle is 1:1
              high is a 33% increase over 2nd.


              rick


              At 12:50 PM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
              >I don't know how the Shimano 3-speed is geared, <snip>
            • Mark Stonich
              Jud s comments about the middle 3 gears matching an AW s are correct for the newest (W) ratio 5 speeds. However the older ones weren t as wide. With the
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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                Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH opinions
                Jud's comments about the middle 3 gears matching an AW's are correct for the newest (W) ratio 5 speeds.  However the older ones weren't as wide.

                With the 33.33% jumps of an AW I'm often wishing for an in between gear. On paper the 26.66%  2-3 and 3-4 shifts of the S5s don't look all that much closer but on the road I'm quite happy with them.   I'm sure I wouldn't like your Nexus' 36.4% shifts.

                 The 225% overall spread of the S5 or the 256% of the newest 5(W) models is considerably wider than any 3 speed.  If you can accept occasionally wishing for a higher high, you can gear them low enough to get up some pretty steep hills.

                At 1:50 PM -0500 11/10/11, Jud Jones wrote:
                 
                I don't know how the Shimano 3-speed is geared, but my 5-speed Sturmeys  are geared just like an AW, with the addition of a taller high gear, and a lower low. That gives a pretty broad spread (but still not quite broad enough to haul my fat butt up the Bay City hill on a 20T cog).
                On 11/10/11 1:42 PM, "Rick Paulos" <rick-paulos@...> wrote:

                What sort of flexibility?  Higher high, lower low or more in between
                ratios?  The high/low is about the same on both. The 5 speed has
                those 2 gap fillers.

                -- 
                
                  
                Mark Stonich;  
                  BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                    5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                       Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
              • John Baldwin
                Freaky! Neat find.
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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                  Freaky!  Neat find.

                  On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                   

                  Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
                  here are some for sale on ebay:

                  www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

                  How popular could they have been?

                  Rick


                • jim
                  Indeed!!!  If I had $80 to blow on collecting I d have one, even tho I bet the shifter s  a bear to locate. the same seller has a single stick shift 10
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 10, 2011
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                    Indeed!!!  If I had $80 to blow on collecting I'd have one, even tho I bet the shifter's  a bear to locate.

                    the same seller has a single "stick shift" 10 speed shifter that is pretty far-out, too, man.





                    --- On Thu, 11/10/11, John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...> wrote:

                    From: John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                    To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:04 PM

                     

                    Freaky!  Neat find.

                    On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                     

                    Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
                    here are some for sale on ebay:

                    www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

                    How popular could they have been?

                    Rick


                  • Mike Wilson
                    The most reliable IGH I have used was my 1970s aluminum shell 2 cable dual-pull-chain Sturmey Archer 5 speed. I geared the 5 speed for 72 inches in 4th,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                      The most reliable IGH I have used was my 1970s aluminum shell 2 cable dual-pull-chain Sturmey Archer 5 speed. I geared the 5 speed for 72 inches in 4th, giving me 3 uphill gears and 1 downhill gear. Many years on fixed meant that I did not mind the relatively low top gear. I found the dual pull chain shift to be superior to the left bellcrank style; others did not. Today at 56 the gear range is not enough to get both the 72 inch level road gear and the gear I want to get up my street and driveway.

                      A lot better than my FGs converted to 5 speed. Those skipped in low gear in the winter.

                      Better reliabiility than the Sachs 7 speeds for me. I had to modify one to keep it from upshifting from 2nd to 6th or 1st to 7th in cold weather high torque (uphill in the snow). The second one worked better, but the shifters were not the happiest thing and the hub had a very distinct clunk in 6th gear which could be heard and felt. They did not seem to be as weatherproof as the Sturmey Archer

                      Way better than the Shimano 7 speed that broke a sun pinion dog at about 10 miles (yes 10 miles). I admit I was power-upshifting, but the sequential shifter allowed that and while it lasted that was really great.


                      Michael Wilson
                    • Mike Wilson
                      I am a Sturmey Archer fan, and have a lot of hubs. For example I just scored an NOS 1960 AB including a bad-condition box for the same money that much-used
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                        I am a Sturmey Archer fan, and have a lot of hubs. For example I just scored an NOS 1960 AB including a bad-condition box for the same money that much-used ABs are getting on ebay. And I am interested in either a KT or AT large-brake hub. I have examples of most everything else up to about 1980 except something pre-1908, but those were apparently the same as the BSA and I have one of those.

                        I am not enough of a Shimano fan to spend $54 on a 2 speed.

                        I am interested in the various automatics like the Sachs. There is a guy in Europe
                        (I think hubstripping is his website) who had a bunch of these NOS.

                        I am also interested in the really old stuff, like 1910s and 1920s, from other manufacturs but have made little effort to find them.


                        Michael Wilson
                      • Bruce Alan Wilson
                        Have you considered adding a Schlumpf? Bruce Alan Wilson http://www.wvdemolay.org/ http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/Bruce_Alan_Wilson_2011 The bicycle is
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                          Have you considered adding a Schlumpf?
                           
                          The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.  ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
                        • Mark Stonich
                          ... Improved shifting was the reason for going to the 2 pull chains. With the original setup, if the ends of the dogs on the primary sun pinion butt up against
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                            At 8:19 AM -0500 11/11/11, Mike Wilson wrote:
                            >I found the dual pull chain shift to be superior to the left
                            >bellcrank style; others did not.

                            Improved shifting was the reason for going to the 2 pull chains.
                            With the original setup, if the ends of the dogs on the primary sun
                            pinion butt up against the splines on the axle, when you are making
                            the shift, the cable stops and the shift isn't completed. With 2
                            chains a spring, not the cable, engages the wider range sun gear. So
                            when you make the shift, if the ends of the dogs butt up against the
                            splines the shift will complete once they are out of alignment.

                            However;
                            This means the cable must be under tension and the spring compressed
                            the 95% or so of the time you are in the middle 3 gears. And I don't
                            remember why, but I think there is slightly more drag. I prefer the
                            S5, with it's bellcrank, as middle range is the default.

                            To get around the shifting problem I install a spring between the
                            cable anchor and the bellcrank arm. This way the cable keeps moving
                            and just like the 2 chain models the spring completes the shift.

                            http://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/bellcrank-spring.jpg

                            Because S5 bellcranks are getting scarce I prefer to use and sell
                            Shimano bellcranks bored and tapped to fit the SA axle. Saving the SA
                            bellcranks for people wishing to do 100% correct restorations.

                            http://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/shimano-bellcrank-spring.jpg

                            I keep a supply of the modified Shimanos on hand. However the
                            leverage ratios are different so they must be used with friction or
                            retrofriction shifters. These work better than the usually crappy SA
                            shifters anyway.
                            --

                            Mark Stonich;
                            BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                            5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                            Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
                          • Colin Bryant
                            I wonder how this shifter deals with overlap .  When you shift from 5 to 6, do you move onto the big chainring and big cog, and end up with lower gearing
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                              I wonder how this shifter deals with "overlap".  When you shift from 5 to 6, do you move onto the big chainring and big cog, and end up with lower gearing than you had in "5"?
                               
                              --
                              Colin Bryant
                              Vancouver, Canada

                              From: jim <jimbofla1138@...>
                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:54:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub

                               
                              Indeed!!!  If I had $80 to blow on collecting I'd have one, even tho I bet the shifter's  a bear to locate.

                              the same seller has a single "stick shift" 10 speed shifter that is pretty far-out, too, man.





                              --- On Thu, 11/10/11, John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...> wrote:

                              From: John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...>
                              Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:04 PM

                               
                              Freaky!  Neat find.

                              On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                               
                              Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
                              here are some for sale on ebay:

                              www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

                              How popular could they have been?

                              Rick




                            • jim
                              It would be interesting to try out, right?? But I cannot see how they got 10 sequential gear steps on a stick with a 2 front ring system.  The last picture on
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 11, 2011
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                                It would be interesting to try out, right?? But I cannot see how they got 10 sequential gear steps on a stick with a 2 front ring system.  The last picture on the eBay listing showed it installed on a road bike up atop the quill. Looked pretty clunky up there and I'm sure that didn't help sell these to speedsters in the bike boom era when cool meant light and sleek. Even if it worked in some logical way. 

                                The "stick" shifters were the bomb on the old Schwinn banana seat bikes like Krates when I was a kid, mostly because they let us imagine we were peeling out in the muscle cars we were lusting after. 




                                --- On Fri, 11/11/11, Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...> wrote:

                                From: Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                                To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                Date: Friday, November 11, 2011, 11:02 AM

                                 

                                I wonder how this shifter deals with "overlap".  When you shift from 5 to 6, do you move onto the big chainring and big cog, and end up with lower gearing than you had in "5"?
                                 
                                --
                                Colin Bryant
                                Vancouver, Canada

                                From: jim <jimbofla1138@...>
                                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:54:39 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub

                                 
                                Indeed!!!  If I had $80 to blow on collecting I'd have one, even tho I bet the shifter's  a bear to locate.

                                the same seller has a single "stick shift" 10 speed shifter that is pretty far-out, too, man.





                                --- On Thu, 11/10/11, John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...> wrote:

                                From: John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                                To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:04 PM

                                 
                                Freaky!  Neat find.

                                On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
                                here are some for sale on ebay:

                                www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

                                How popular could they have been?

                                Rick




                              • Colin Bryant
                                My 3 speed IGH banana seat (gold flake), bike, in about 1970, required appropriate motor revving sounds, when shifting it s top tube mounted stick shifter .
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 12, 2011
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                                  My 3 speed IGH banana seat (gold flake), bike, in about 1970, required appropriate motor revving sounds, when shifting it's top tube mounted "stick shifter".
                                   
                                  --
                                  Colin Bryant
                                  Vancouver, Canada

                                  From: jim <jimbofla1138@...>
                                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:31:14 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub

                                   
                                  It would be interesting to try out, right?? But I cannot see how they got 10 sequential gear steps on a stick with a 2 front ring system.  The last picture on the eBay listing showed it installed on a road bike up atop the quill. Looked pretty clunky up there and I'm sure that didn't help sell these to speedsters in the bike boom era when cool meant light and sleek. Even if it worked in some logical way. 

                                  The "stick" shifters were the bomb on the old Schwinn banana seat bikes like Krates when I was a kid, mostly because they let us imagine we were peeling out in the muscle cars we were lusting after. 




                                  --- On Fri, 11/11/11, Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...> wrote:

                                  From: Colin Bryant <sk8ski2004@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                                  To: "Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com" <Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Friday, November 11, 2011, 11:02 AM

                                   
                                  I wonder how this shifter deals with "overlap".  When you shift from 5 to 6, do you move onto the big chainring and big cog, and end up with lower gearing than you had in "5"?
                                   
                                  --
                                  Colin Bryant
                                  Vancouver, Canada

                                  From: jim <jimbofla1138@...>
                                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:54:39 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub

                                   
                                  Indeed!!!  If I had $80 to blow on collecting I'd have one, even tho I bet the shifter's  a bear to locate.

                                  the same seller has a single "stick shift" 10 speed shifter that is pretty far-out, too, man.





                                  --- On Thu, 11/10/11, John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...> wrote:

                                  From: John Baldwin <johnbaldwin207@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Shimano 2 speed hub
                                  To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:04 PM

                                   
                                  Freaky!  Neat find.

                                  On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Rick Paulos <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Okay, I'll admit I didn't know Shimano ever made a 2 speed hub but
                                  here are some for sale on ebay:

                                  www.ebay.com/itm/330554064420

                                  How popular could they have been?

                                  Rick






                                • aarons_bicycle_repair
                                  The old 2 cable SA 5 speeds are a very good and strong design. Many of the 4 speeds use the same design. The way the sun gears are fixed to the axle is far
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 12, 2011
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                                    The old 2 cable SA 5 speeds are a very good and strong design. Many of the 4 speeds use the same design. The way the sun gears are fixed to the axle is far superior than any modern sliding key or pawl design. You can see pictures on my website: http://www.rideyourbike.com/sturmeyarcherIGH.shtml
                                    Sun Race - Sturmey Archer should take note of their old designs. The current wide range 5 speeds suffer from sliding keys that are too soft and mushroom over causing the sun gear to slip off. Adjustment is finicky too. According to SA-USA you have to have the adjustment within a millimeter or the hub will slip. For comparison, AW hubs have about a 3mm cable tension adjustment range. The Shimano Alfine 11 is also very critical and can be thrown out of adjustment by dirt or minor cable housing compression (quality cables do not stretch) or poor cable routing or frame stops.

                                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Wilson <mwilson@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The most reliable IGH I have used was my 1970s aluminum shell 2 cable dual-pull-chain Sturmey Archer 5 speed. I geared the 5 speed for 72 inches in 4th, giving me 3 uphill gears and 1 downhill gear. Many years on fixed meant that I did not mind the relatively low top gear. I found the dual pull chain shift to be superior to the left bellcrank style; others did not. Today at 56 the gear range is not enough to get both the 72 inch level road gear and the gear I want to get up my street and driveway.
                                    >
                                    > A lot better than my FGs converted to 5 speed. Those skipped in low gear in the winter.
                                    >
                                    > Better reliabiility than the Sachs 7 speeds for me. I had to modify one to keep it from upshifting from 2nd to 6th or 1st to 7th in cold weather high torque (uphill in the snow). The second one worked better, but the shifters were not the happiest thing and the hub had a very distinct clunk in 6th gear which could be heard and felt. They did not seem to be as weatherproof as the Sturmey Archer
                                    >
                                    > Way better than the Shimano 7 speed that broke a sun pinion dog at about 10 miles (yes 10 miles). I admit I was power-upshifting, but the sequential shifter allowed that and while it lasted that was really great.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Michael Wilson
                                    >
                                  • aarons_bicycle_repair
                                    Brilliant bell crank modification Mark!
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 12, 2011
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                                      Brilliant bell crank modification Mark!
                                    • Mark Stonich
                                      ... Thank you! IMHO, with the exception of the Rolhoff and some future evolution of the NuVinci, IGH design has been going downhill since the S5. BTW My next
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 13, 2011
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                                        At 06:08 PM 11/12/2011, aarons_bicycle_repair wrote:
                                        >Brilliant bell crank modification Mark!

                                        Thank you!

                                        IMHO, with the exception of the Rolhoff and some future evolution of
                                        the NuVinci, IGH design has been going downhill since the S5.

                                        BTW My next S5 project will be my 1976 Raleigh Super Course Mk II. I
                                        have been a fan of bar end shifters since my 1st set of SunTour
                                        ratchetting BarCons on a 1976 Centurion Pro Tour. Now I can combine
                                        the new SA 3 speed bar end with a SunTour on the left to optimize
                                        shifting an S5 with road bars.
                                      • pj
                                        ... Actually, the gear selector key design for the new W five-speed was taken from the 1993-1998 Sprinter hub.
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 13, 2011
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                                          > Sun Race - Sturmey Archer should take note of their old designs.

                                          Actually, the gear selector key design for the new W five-speed was taken from the 1993-1998 Sprinter hub.
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