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Tandem Hub

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  • nobacklash
    Hi group! I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub. Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment? Is out of phase
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
      Hi group!

      I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub.

      Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment?

      Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?

      Is an AW hub better? - I have a 40h AW available.

      If neither of these is ideal, what is the best hub to fit the 114 OLD?

      Thanks

      Mike
    • Paulos, Richard G
      ... Yes, out of phase, ie, 90 degrees, does mean a much smoother power application. That can be better for the frame, chains, spokes & tires too since both
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
        >Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?

        Yes, out of phase, ie, 90 degrees, does mean a much smoother power application. That can be better for the frame, chains, spokes & tires too since both riders aren't pushing down at the same time.

        The down side is it's bit of a learning curve to get started and to make sure the stoker's pedal is up on fast turns. It also makes it hard to climb hills with both riders out of the saddle.

        The fun part is it freaks out other riders who are trailing behind you watching the legs go up and down like that.

        Rick
      • nobacklash
        Thanks for that Rick. Anybody care to comment on the FM or AW for tandem use?
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
          Thanks for that Rick. Anybody care to comment on the FM or AW for tandem use?

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Paulos, Richard G" <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
          >
          > >Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
          >
          > Yes, out of phase, ie, 90 degrees, does mean a much smoother power application. That can be better for the frame, chains, spokes & tires too since both riders aren't pushing down at the same time.
          >
          > The down side is it's bit of a learning curve to get started and to make sure the stoker's pedal is up on fast turns. It also makes it hard to climb hills with both riders out of the saddle.
          >
          > The fun part is it freaks out other riders who are trailing behind you watching the legs go up and down like that.
          >
          > Rick
          >
        • Paulos, Richard G
          The AW for tandem use. Well I wound up in an emergency room because of an AW hub on a single. That neutral between 2nd and 3rd gear can send you flying over
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
            The AW for tandem use. Well I wound up in an emergency room because of an AW hub on a single. That neutral between 2nd and 3rd gear can send you flying over the bars when you least expect it. On a tandem, you could put two people in the emergency room. But if you are aware of that problem with the AW and ride accordingly, ie, no standing up to pedal, no going all out, keeping it properly adjusted you still have the problems of even a properly adjusted hub going neutral. With a tandem, your shift cable will be much longer and more prone to getting snagged by the stoker if run high on the frame, or subject to getting tugged by frame flex, either of which can put the AW in neutral during hard pedaling. Put stickers on the handle bars that read "this is not a racing bike - take it easy".

            One of the many stupid stoker tricks is pulling up on the cables that run along the rear top tube.

            AW hubs are probably the most produced IGH of all time. They have a beautiful engineering simplicity about them. You just have to respect their flaws. I still ride AW hubs occasionally but I don't stand and sprint or sprint up hills on them.

            rick

            ________________________________________
            From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of nobacklash [mikei@...]
            Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 7:36 PM
            To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Tandem Hub

            Thanks for that Rick. Anybody care to comment on the FM or AW for tandem use?

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Paulos, Richard G" <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
            >
            > >Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
            >
            > Yes, out of phase, ie, 90 degrees, does mean a much smoother power application. That can be better for the frame, chains, spokes & tires too since both riders aren't pushing down at the same time.
            >
            > The down side is it's bit of a learning curve to get started and to make sure the stoker's pedal is up on fast turns. It also makes it hard to climb hills with both riders out of the saddle.
            >
            > The fun part is it freaks out other riders who are trailing behind you watching the legs go up and down like that.
            >
            > Rick
            >




            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • dallas098
            Just out of curiosity, did you by chance, buy that tandem from an ad on Craigslist in the Boston area? If so, that is one cool tandem. Being an IGH newbie I
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
              Just out of curiosity, did you by chance, buy that tandem from an ad on Craigslist in the Boston area? If so, that is one cool tandem. Being an IGH newbie I don't have any insight into the hub, but I'd love to put an IGH on one of my tandems.

              Dallas

              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "nobacklash" <mikei@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi group!
              >
              > I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub.
              >
              > Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment?
              >
              > Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
              >
              > Is an AW hub better? - I have a 40h AW available.
              >
              > If neither of these is ideal, what is the best hub to fit the 114 OLD?
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > Mike
            • Rich W
              The only IGH currently tandem approved by the manufacturer is the Rohloff. Sachs/Sram did have a 5 speed hub version that was tandem rated aty one time, the
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 18, 2011
                The only IGH currently tandem approved by the manufacturer is the Rohloff. Sachs/Sram did have a 5 speed hub version that was tandem rated aty one time, the P5 Cargo. A scarce hub per my understanding, at least in the USA, and not common even in Germany. The Shimano 8 speed and older heavy NuVinci might be strong enough based on successful cargo bike and motorized applications I have read of.

                The FM is old enough and parts are scarce enough so I personally would not subject one to tandem use, at least not on a regular basis. So far as I know only a few pre WW2 2 and 3 speed SA hubs were ever factory tandem rated.

                Rich Wood


                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "dallas098" <dallas098@...> wrote:
                >
                > Just out of curiosity, did you by chance, buy that tandem from an ad on Craigslist in the Boston area? If so, that is one cool tandem. Being an IGH newbie I don't have any insight into the hub, but I'd love to put an IGH on one of my tandems.
                >
                > Dallas
                >
                > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "nobacklash" <mikei@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi group!
                > >
                > > I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub.
                > >
                > > Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment?
                > >
                > > Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
                > >
                > > Is an AW hub better? - I have a 40h AW available.
                > >
                > > If neither of these is ideal, what is the best hub to fit the 114 OLD?
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > >
                > > Mike
                >
              • pj
                ... Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell. Interestingly,
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                  > The only IGH currently tandem approved by
                  > the manufacturer is the Rohloff.

                  Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell.

                  Interestingly, the Electra bike company has offered cruiser tandems for many years with what appear to be standard Shimano Nexus 3-speed hubs. I ~suspect~ they work because the bikes have short careers where they aren't ridden more than a few dozen miles a year - perhaps like the tandem with the FM?
                • pj
                  ... Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell. Interestingly,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                    > The only IGH currently tandem approved by
                    > the manufacturer is the Rohloff.

                    Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell.

                    Interestingly, the Electra bike company has offered cruiser tandems for many years with what appear to be standard Shimano Nexus 3-speed hubs. I ~suspect~ they work because the bikes have short careers where they aren't ridden more than a few dozen miles a year - perhaps like the tandem with the FM?
                  • David Chase
                    But on the other hand, no dish, and you can use a tough rim and fat tires, right? With disk or drum brakes, why not, say, a Mavic EX 729? That s my plan. Put a
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                      But on the other hand, no dish, and you can use a tough rim and fat tires, right?

                      With disk or drum brakes, why not, say, a Mavic EX 729?
                      That's my plan.
                      Put a Big Apple on those, I think it gets you about the same wheel diameter as a 700cx30.

                      And the reviews are a hoot:

                      "I am a Mavic convert. A little story: riding hard at Kicking Horse, I screwed my line up big-style, lofted off the trail and landed from about 20 ft in the air onto very sharp, big, angular alpine rocks. While I absolutely toasted the tubes and bounced waaay off the bike, the rims were not even a tiny bit out of true. Unreal. Had it not been for these rims and my Rockgardn Flak Jacket (brilliant armour, go buy one), I'd be writing this from a hospital bed instead of slouched in my living room. I would have children with these rims if it wasn't so very, very wrong. Worth every cent."

                      David

                      On 2011-06-19, at 9:26 AM, pj wrote:

                      > > The only IGH currently tandem approved by
                      > > the manufacturer is the Rohloff.
                      >
                      > Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell.
                      >
                      > Interestingly, the Electra bike company has offered cruiser tandems for many years with what appear to be standard Shimano Nexus 3-speed hubs. I ~suspect~ they work because the bikes have short careers where they aren't ridden more than a few dozen miles a year - perhaps like the tandem with the FM?
                    • Alex Wetmore
                      From: David Chase [dr2chase@mac.com] ... Yup! Tandem wheels requiring huge spoke counts is a bit overblown anyway. My first tandem was a Cannondale MT1000
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                        From: David Chase [dr2chase@...]
                        > But on the other hand, no dish, and you can use a tough rim and fat tires, right?

                        Yup!

                        Tandem wheels requiring huge spoke counts is a bit overblown anyway. My first tandem was a Cannondale MT1000 which used standard XT 8sp hubs (so moderately dished), 36 spokes, Sun Rhyno Lite rims. I often rode that bike with team weights pushing 400lbs, bike loaded up, and riding on mixed surfaces with no issues. A dishless 32 spoke wheel using a stronger rim should be even better.

                        The front wheel on our current tandem is also 36 spoke (laced to a CR18) because I had a 36 spoke Schmidt dynohub handy and wanted lighting on our tandem.

                        I've considered putting a Rohloff on our tandem, but in the end decided that we didn't use the tandem quite enough to buy a Rohloff for it. The disk Rohloff that was going to go on our tandem has instead ended up on my mountain bike. I have an unused 203mm Rohloff disk rotor if anyone needs one at a good price.

                        alex
                      • nobacklash
                        Thanks for the warning - I m a bit of an animal for standing on pedals so maybe I need to think this through a bit! Rohloff won t fit my frame as it s a 114mm
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                          Thanks for the warning - I'm a bit of an animal for standing on pedals so maybe I need to think this through a bit! Rohloff won't fit my frame as it's a 114mm between rear drop outs.

                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Paulos, Richard G" <rick-paulos@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The AW for tandem use. Well I wound up in an emergency room because of an AW hub on a single. That neutral between 2nd and 3rd gear can send you flying over the bars when you least expect it. On a tandem, you could put two people in the emergency room. But if you are aware of that problem with the AW and ride accordingly, ie, no standing up to pedal, no going all out, keeping it properly adjusted you still have the problems of even a properly adjusted hub going neutral. With a tandem, your shift cable will be much longer and more prone to getting snagged by the stoker if run high on the frame, or subject to getting tugged by frame flex, either of which can put the AW in neutral during hard pedaling. Put stickers on the handle bars that read "this is not a racing bike - take it easy".
                          >
                          > One of the many stupid stoker tricks is pulling up on the cables that run along the rear top tube.
                          >
                          > AW hubs are probably the most produced IGH of all time. They have a beautiful engineering simplicity about them. You just have to respect their flaws. I still ride AW hubs occasionally but I don't stand and sprint or sprint up hills on them.
                          >
                          > rick
                          >
                          > ________________________________________
                          > From: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com [Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of nobacklash [mikei@...]
                          > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 7:36 PM
                          > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Tandem Hub
                          >
                          > Thanks for that Rick. Anybody care to comment on the FM or AW for tandem use?
                          >
                          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Paulos, Richard G" <rick-paulos@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
                          > >
                          > > Yes, out of phase, ie, 90 degrees, does mean a much smoother power application. That can be better for the frame, chains, spokes & tires too since both riders aren't pushing down at the same time.
                          > >
                          > > The down side is it's bit of a learning curve to get started and to make sure the stoker's pedal is up on fast turns. It also makes it hard to climb hills with both riders out of the saddle.
                          > >
                          > > The fun part is it freaks out other riders who are trailing behind you watching the legs go up and down like that.
                          > >
                          > > Rick
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                        • Alex Wetmore
                          From: nobacklash [mikei@thornfield.net] ... If the frame is fairly ordinary steel (mild or 4130/cromoly) then you can fairly safely have it spread to 135mm.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                            From: nobacklash [mikei@...]
                            > Thanks for the warning - I'm a bit of an animal for standing on pedals so maybe I need to think this
                            > through a bit! Rohloff won't fit my frame as it's a 114mm between rear drop outs.

                            If the frame is fairly ordinary steel (mild or 4130/cromoly) then you can fairly safely have it spread to 135mm. That will give you many more options for hubs, including just running a MTB hub with a derailleur.

                            alex
                          • ighexpert
                            I agree. Have a shop cold-set the rear end to the modern 135mm and use a Rohloff or NuVinci. Shimano 8 and would probably be fine. It is a very durable hub.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                              I agree. Have a shop cold-set the rear end to the modern 135mm and use a Rohloff or NuVinci. Shimano 8 and would probably be fine. It is a very durable hub.

                              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The only IGH currently tandem approved by the manufacturer is the Rohloff. Sachs/Sram did have a 5 speed hub version that was tandem rated aty one time, the P5 Cargo. A scarce hub per my understanding, at least in the USA, and not common even in Germany. The Shimano 8 speed and older heavy NuVinci might be strong enough based on successful cargo bike and motorized applications I have read of.
                              >
                              > The FM is old enough and parts are scarce enough so I personally would not subject one to tandem use, at least not on a regular basis. So far as I know only a few pre WW2 2 and 3 speed SA hubs were ever factory tandem rated.
                              >
                              > Rich Wood
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "dallas098" <dallas098@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Just out of curiosity, did you by chance, buy that tandem from an ad on Craigslist in the Boston area? If so, that is one cool tandem. Being an IGH newbie I don't have any insight into the hub, but I'd love to put an IGH on one of my tandems.
                              > >
                              > > Dallas
                              > >
                              > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "nobacklash" <mikei@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi group!
                              > > >
                              > > > I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub.
                              > > >
                              > > > Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment?
                              > > >
                              > > > Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
                              > > >
                              > > > Is an AW hub better? - I have a 40h AW available.
                              > > >
                              > > > If neither of these is ideal, what is the best hub to fit the 114 OLD?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks
                              > > >
                              > > > Mike
                              > >
                              >
                            • frameteam2003
                              I don t have any info on Tandem rated hubs to offer----that said---the Hurcules 3 speed(a sturmey clone) was a better made hub of harden machined parts.Also
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 19, 2011
                                I don't have any info on Tandem rated hubs to offer----that said---the Hurcules 3 speed(a sturmey clone) was a better made hub of harden machined parts.Also the old torpedo sachs german hubs were also far better made than S/As
                                add a two sprocket(cyclo) gear for more range than the standard 3 speed
                                BTW---sturmey archer said their 3 speed hubs should be used as a single speed that could be changes---you should only change gears when you really have to.
                              • Bruce Alan Wilson
                                http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page46.html These come with a three-speed IHG option, and they tell me that if you want more you could have
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jun 20, 2011
                                   
                                  These come with a three-speed IHG option, and they tell me that if you want more you could have your LBS put in a 7 or 8 speed, or even a Rolhoff or a NuVinci.
                                   
                                   
                                   

                                  The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.  ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
                                • pj
                                  ... Fascinating. Could you pass along your source for that information? Best, pj
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jun 20, 2011
                                    > BTW---sturmey archer said their 3 speed hubs
                                    > should be used as a single speed that could be
                                    > changes---you should only change gears when
                                    > you really have to.

                                    Fascinating. Could you pass along your source for that information?

                                    Best,
                                    pj
                                  • nobacklash
                                    No, I m in the UK - I bought it off ebay UK from a guy a few miles down the road.
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jun 20, 2011
                                      No, I'm in the UK - I bought it off ebay UK from a guy a few miles down the road.


                                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "dallas098" <dallas098@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Just out of curiosity, did you by chance, buy that tandem from an ad on Craigslist in the Boston area? If so, that is one cool tandem. Being an IGH newbie I don't have any insight into the hub, but I'd love to put an IGH on one of my tandems.
                                      >
                                      > Dallas
                                      >
                                      > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "nobacklash" <mikei@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi group!
                                      > >
                                      > > I recently bought an old tandem which had been fitted with a 40h 1955 Sturmey Archer FM hub.
                                      > >
                                      > > Are FM hubs up to the tandem punishment?
                                      > >
                                      > > Is out of phase crank timing of benefit to reduce peak loading on the hub?
                                      > >
                                      > > Is an AW hub better? - I have a 40h AW available.
                                      > >
                                      > > If neither of these is ideal, what is the best hub to fit the 114 OLD?
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks
                                      > >
                                      > > Mike
                                      >
                                    • nobacklash
                                      I m hoping to do this on the cheap as I only paid £72 for the Tandem. This kind of rules out Rohloff or NuVinci etc. I really don t want to cold set the frame
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jun 20, 2011
                                        I'm hoping to do this on the cheap as I only paid £72 for the Tandem. This kind of rules out Rohloff or NuVinci etc. I really don't want to cold set the frame from 114 to 135 unless it's unavoidable but will if older Sturmey Archer hubs aren't up to the tandem loading.

                                        So far it's looking like FM or AW hubs are a bad option so my question now is: are there geared hubs that can fit (or be made to fit) the 114 rear dropout dimensions?

                                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson" <bruce_alan_wilson@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page46.html
                                        >
                                        > These come with a three-speed IHG option, and they tell me that if you want more you could have your LBS put in a 7 or 8 speed, or even a Rolhoff or a NuVinci.
                                        >
                                        > Bruce Alan Wilson
                                        > http://www.wvdemolay.org/
                                        > http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/Bruce_Alan_Wilson_2011
                                        > Please note my new address: bruce_alan_wilson@...
                                        > http://pedalersparadise.wordpress.com/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
                                        >
                                      • ighexpert
                                        We can custom drill your Rohloff for 48 spoke use. http://www.rideyourbike.com/48spokerohloff.shtml The problem people have with using 32 spokes on a tandem is
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jun 20, 2011
                                          We can custom drill your Rohloff for 48 spoke use.
                                          http://www.rideyourbike.com/48spokerohloff.shtml

                                          The problem people have with using 32 spokes on a tandem is flange failure. The spoke tension needs to be higher on a tandem.
                                          There is a common misunderstanding about strength vs. durability in wheel design. When hand building wheels more spokes always make a more durable wheel. 32 spokes are plenty strong, but spokes will break sooner than later. The only other way to make a stronger wheel is to use larger diameter spokes. Fat, low pressure tires also help.
                                          My opinoins come from 25 years of experience hand building wheels.
                                          We build lots of wheels for Xtracycle cargo bikes and tandems.



                                          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > The only IGH currently tandem approved by
                                          > > the manufacturer is the Rohloff.
                                          >
                                          > Alas, it comes from the factory only in a 32 hole shell. The ne plus ultra set up would be Rohloff internals in a Phil Wood 48 hole shell.
                                          >
                                          > Interestingly, the Electra bike company has offered cruiser tandems for many years with what appear to be standard Shimano Nexus 3-speed hubs. I ~suspect~ they work because the bikes have short careers where they aren't ridden more than a few dozen miles a year - perhaps like the tandem with the FM?
                                          >
                                        • pj
                                          ... The S-A K family of hubs was ~advertised~ as tandem suitable and they come up on ebay-uk
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jun 21, 2011
                                            > I'm hoping to do this on the cheap as I only
                                            > paid £72 for the Tandem. This kind of rules
                                            > out Rohloff or NuVinci etc. I really don't want
                                            > to cold set the frame from 114 to 135 unless
                                            > it's unavoidable but will if older Sturmey Archer
                                            > hubs aren't up to the tandem loading.
                                            >
                                            > So far it's looking like FM or AW hubs are a bad
                                            > option so my question now is: are there geared
                                            > hubs that can fit (or be made to fit) the 114 rear
                                            > dropout dimensions?

                                            The S-A "K" family of hubs was ~advertised~ as tandem suitable

                                            <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-45.jpg>

                                            and they come up on ebay-uk with regularity, but I'm skeptical that they'd really give better service than a new SRF3.

                                            And, well, 74 years ago S-A didn't flinch when recommending the AW for tandems.

                                            <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.9.jpg>

                                            Folks swore these hubs gave good service on tandems, too:

                                            <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.5.jpg>

                                            Anyway, my notes say Christine @ www.take2move.de in Germany was able to source a SRAM S5 Cargo.

                                            Me, on a budget? I'd probably go out-of-phase and spread the frame to 129mm, then fit a S-A RSRF3. Not expensive, and has a solid axle.

                                            The S-A XRF8(W) can get down to 116mm OLD (close enough) and has a beefy, solid axle, but you'd get into issues (mostly more expense) of regearing the drive crank.

                                            pj
                                          • nobacklash
                                            Thanks PJ for a very well researched and considered answer to my query. I ve not decided what to do long term, but for now I ve enough confidence to go with
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jun 22, 2011
                                              Thanks PJ for a very well researched and considered answer to my query. I've not decided what to do long term, but for now I've enough confidence to go with the AW as it has a 40 hole shell.

                                              Ultimately I'll spread the rear when I repaint the frame and go for either a P5 cargo or a derailleur solution.

                                              Thanks again PJ and the group.

                                              Mike

                                              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "pj" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > I'm hoping to do this on the cheap as I only
                                              > > paid �72 for the Tandem. This kind of rules
                                              > > out Rohloff or NuVinci etc. I really don't want
                                              > > to cold set the frame from 114 to 135 unless
                                              > > it's unavoidable but will if older Sturmey Archer
                                              > > hubs aren't up to the tandem loading.
                                              > >
                                              > > So far it's looking like FM or AW hubs are a bad
                                              > > option so my question now is: are there geared
                                              > > hubs that can fit (or be made to fit) the 114 rear
                                              > > dropout dimensions?
                                              >
                                              > The S-A "K" family of hubs was ~advertised~ as tandem suitable
                                              >
                                              > <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-45.jpg>
                                              >
                                              > and they come up on ebay-uk with regularity, but I'm skeptical that they'd really give better service than a new SRF3.
                                              >
                                              > And, well, 74 years ago S-A didn't flinch when recommending the AW for tandems.
                                              >
                                              > <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.9.jpg>
                                              >
                                              > Folks swore these hubs gave good service on tandems, too:
                                              >
                                              > <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.5.jpg>
                                              >
                                              > Anyway, my notes say Christine @ www.take2move.de in Germany was able to source a SRAM S5 Cargo.
                                              >
                                              > Me, on a budget? I'd probably go out-of-phase and spread the frame to 129mm, then fit a S-A RSRF3. Not expensive, and has a solid axle.
                                              >
                                              > The S-A XRF8(W) can get down to 116mm OLD (close enough) and has a beefy, solid axle, but you'd get into issues (mostly more expense) of regearing the drive crank.
                                              >
                                              > pj
                                              >
                                            • sam lingo
                                              ... From: pj Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Tandem Hub To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011,
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jun 22, 2011


                                              --- On Tue, 6/21/11, pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:

                                              From: pj <prester_john_in_cathay@...>
                                              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Tandem Hub
                                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:10 PM

                                               
                                              > I'm hoping to do this on the cheap as I only
                                              > paid £72 for the Tandem. This kind of rules
                                              > out Rohloff or NuVinci etc. I really don't want
                                              > to cold set the frame from 114 to 135 unless
                                              > it's unavoidable but will if older Sturmey Archer
                                              > hubs aren't up to the tandem loading.
                                              >
                                              > So far it's looking like FM or AW hubs are a bad
                                              > option so my question now is: are there geared
                                              > hubs that can fit (or be made to fit) the 114 rear
                                              > dropout dimensions?

                                              The S-A "K" family of hubs was ~advertised~ as tandem suitable

                                              <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-45.jpg>

                                              and they come up on ebay-uk with regularity, but I'm skeptical that they'd really give better service than a new SRF3.

                                              And, well, 74 years ago S-A didn't flinch when recommending the AW for tandems.

                                              <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.9.jpg>

                                              Folks swore these hubs gave good service on tandems, too:

                                              <http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/images/photos/pic-57.5.jpg>

                                              Anyway, my notes say Christine @ www.take2move.de in Germany was able to source a SRAM S5 Cargo.

                                              Me, on a budget? I'd probably go out-of-phase and spread the frame to 129mm, then fit a S-A RSRF3. Not expensive, and has a solid axle.

                                              The S-A XRF8(W) can get down to 116mm OLD (close enough) and has a beefy, solid axle, but you'd get into issues (mostly more expense) of regearing the drive crank.

                                              pj

                                            • Mike Wilson
                                              Sturmey Archer made both KT and AT hubs for tandem use. Both had larger drum brakes than the KB or AB. I do not know if the internal gears were stronger.
                                              Message 23 of 23 , Aug 28, 2011
                                                Sturmey Archer made both KT and AT hubs for tandem use. Both had larger drum brakes than the KB or AB. I do not know if the internal gears were stronger.

                                                Michael Wilson
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