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Re: Downtube mini and double crank

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  • Tom
    Sturmey has made in previous years: PN, Teeth, Chain HSL867, 25T, 3/32 HSL868, 23T, 3/32 HSL873, 19T, 3/32 These XR*8 cogs are not in the latest catalog, but
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 7, 2011
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      Sturmey has made in previous years:

      PN, Teeth, Chain
      HSL867, 25T, 3/32
      HSL868, 23T, 3/32
      HSL873, 19T, 3/32

      These XR*8 cogs are not in the latest catalog, but dealers may have stock.

      In Sturmey's latest catalog, they list only:

      HSL822, 25T, 1/8
      HSL821, 23T, 1/8
      HSL897, 20T, 3/32

      as cogs for the XR*8(W) hubs. These also fit the older XR*8 hubs [pre (W) version].

      My XRK8(W) hub came with an HSL822, 1/8 cog in the kit.

      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
      > The SA 8 speed cogs do not require 1/8" chain. Standard 7-8 speed
      > chain will work fine.
    • Rich W
      Carol; The lower you go on low gear, the smaller the front chainwheel in relation to the rear sprocket, the more torque you are feeding into the hub. Most
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 7, 2011
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        Carol;

        The lower you go on low gear, the smaller the front chainwheel in relation to the rear sprocket, the more torque you are feeding into the hub. Most hubs used to have minimum recommended input ratios based on hub strength and Rohloff, SRAM and NuVinci still do. Rohloff and NuVinci listed input ratios seem to be very conservative and are frequently exceeded without problems.

        I have seen posts indicating that once you get much below about 18" balance can become difficult due to minimal bicycle speed at normal cadence. I have not tried gearing that low though. 11" is definitely too low for most people to balance the bike without considerable practice I understand.

        Trying to recommend gearing remotely is rough as it is so individual.

        Rich Wood


        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <cmcanulty@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I used 16.5" 305 wheelX1.5" 25t rear cog 8sp sturmey archer hub and front chainrings of 39 & 53 and got a range of 21" to 87" because I have that crank already any better suggestions to increase low range? I could also put on a front 22-42 just take off middle ring no front derailleur and get 11 to 59 something in between would be nice like 17 to 83 or thereabouts
        >
      • Mark Stonich
        HSL867, 25T, 3/32 and HSL868, 23T, 3/32 are both still in the 2010-2011 catalog. Page 12. Have you found a link someplace to a newer 2011-2012 catalog? ... --
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 7, 2011
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          [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Downtube mini and double crank
          HSL867, 25T, 3/32 and HSL868, 23T, 3/32  are both still in the 2010-2011 catalog. Page 12.

          Have you found a link someplace to a newer 2011-2012 catalog?

          Sturmey has made in previous years:

          PN, Teeth, Chain
          HSL867, 25T, 3/32
          HSL868, 23T, 3/32
          HSL873, 19T, 3/32

          These XR*8 cogs are not in the latest catalog, but dealers may have stock.

          In Sturmey's latest catalog, they list only:

          HSL822, 25T, 1/8
          HSL821, 23T, 1/8
          HSL897, 20T, 3/32

          as cogs for the XR*8(W) hubs. These also fit the older XR*8 hubs [pre (W) version].

          My XRK8(W) hub came with an HSL822, 1/8 cog in the kit.

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
          > The SA 8 speed cogs do not require 1/8" chain. Standard 7-8 speed
          > chain will work fine.
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          -- 
          
            
          Mark Stonich;  
            BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
              5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                 Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
        • Tom
          ... Not in the copy I downloaded!
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 7, 2011
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            > HSL867, 25T, 3/32 and HSL868, 23T, 3/32 are both still in the
            > 2010-2011 catalog. Page 12.

            Not in the copy I downloaded!
          • chkamb
            Carol, What about a combined IGH and rear cassettes hub like Sturmey s CS-RF3 and -RK3 (www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/8/id/58)? Just an idea from
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 8, 2011
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              Carol,
              What about a combined IGH and rear cassettes hub like Sturmey's CS-RF3 and -RK3 (www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/8/id/58)? Just an idea from me.. Maybe the other group participants can comment on this proposal. You would not need a (heavy) tripple front crank..

              Maybe this is of interest for you, too ("...carry my service dog on handlebar (she is 7 lbs)...":
              "Transportation Handlebar Set with Basket and Aluminium Stem"
              http://classic-cycle.de/en/Carrier-Stands/Transportation-Handlebar-Set-with-Basket-and-Aluminium-Stem.html

              It is a German online shop but I think this is a product manufactured in Asia so maybe also available outside Germany. They offer international shipping but you should ask for the price..
              Here you can get an impression on how the handlebar looks like when mounted to a bike:
              http://classic-cycle.de/en/Cruiser-Lowrider-Chopper/Shopping-Polo-Bike-2000-red.html
              http://classic-cycle.de/en/Transport-Bicycles-Business-Bikes/Pet-Bike-with-Basket-red.html?azrec=ef2faec3-288c-426b-bc42-fa3b948b568d

              Kind Regards
              Chris

              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <cmcanulty@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have always used rear dérailleurs but am considering a 16" wheel folder the Downtube mini with a sturmey-archer XRF8 8 speed internal hub. I need a wide gear range and am considering that hub with a double or triple crank and a chain tensioner. I am new at internal hubs and would appreciate any advice issues with this idea or should I stick with derailleur gears. I am disabled and carry my service dog on handlebar (she is 7 lbs) in addition to all the normal traveling stuff.
              >
            • Mark Stonich
              ... Look again. The 3/32 cogs are listed on page 12 just below the same sizes in 1/8 They are on the copy I downloaded in July and are on the copy I
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 8, 2011
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                [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Downtube mini and double crank
                 
                > HSL867, 25T, 3/32 and HSL868, 23T, 3/32 are both still in the
                > 2010-2011 catalog. Page 12.
                Not in the copy I downloaded!

                Look again.
                 The 3/32" cogs are listed on page 12 just below the same sizes in 1/8"

                They are on the copy I downloaded in July and are on the copy I downloaded today.
                http://www.sturmey-archer.com/userfiles/catalogs/Sturmey-Archer-2010-2011-Catalogue-A2-Low-Res.pdf


                _______________________________________________________
                Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
                http://www.doteasy.com


                -- 
                
                  
                Mark Stonich;  
                  BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                    5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                       Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
              • Carol
                I may have missed this but what catalog is there a link?
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 8, 2011
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                  I may have missed this but what catalog is there a link?
                • Mike Wilson
                  Posted by: Carol cmcanulty@hotmail.com carolmcanulty Fri Jan 7, 2011 1:42 pm (PST) I used 16.5 305 wheelX1.5 25t rear cog 8sp sturmey archer hub and
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 8, 2011
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                    Posted by: "Carol" cmcanulty@... carolmcanulty
                    Fri Jan 7, 2011 1:42 pm (PST)

                    I used 16.5" 305 wheelX1.5" 25t rear cog 8sp sturmey archer hub and front chainrings of 39 & 53 and got a range of 21" to 87" because I have that crank already any better suggestions to increase low range? I could also put on a front 22-42 just take off middle ring no front derailleur and get 11 to 59 something in between would be nice like 17 to 83 or thereabouts
                    --------------------
                    21 inches seems low enough to me but I am not the end user. I am assuming you know the range you want? It is lower than I can use.

                    If you have a 22-32-42 setup you could try the 32 middle and get a custom larger sprocket to get the range desired. Or use a road triple with a 30-53, or the same with a different inner sprocket (you used to be able to get up to 34 t in 74bcd). Or a compact 34-50. Probably cheaper than a custom large 4-bolt.

                    From your post you are considering this because the bike comes with the SA 8 speed, correct? If so, and you need to use 1/8 chain, then you will want to add thin spacers and longer chainring bolts; both are not hard although I forget where I got the parts. However 1/8 chain on sprockets designed for narrow chain will wear oddly - I used to do this all the time and the chain would "stretch" more on one side than the other and get strange twists to it.

                    You said you are disabled, yet would shift with your foot rather than a derailleur? I have been riding for 40 years, and I could not do that myself. Most front derailleurs would have trouble with 1/8 chain; in my parts bin the ones that might work are a Huret Jubilee and a Suntour CompV reverse-pull. I do not think anything from the last 15 years would work, but I do not know what is out there.

                    My personal opinion is that once you have decided to have multiple sprockets you might as well have derailleurs front and rear.

                    An ordinary 11-27 cassette with a 30-39-53 is close to what you are looking for. Or if you want the same range but moved higher the Shimano Capreo is also available with a 9 tooth small sprocket, and uses standard cassette cogs for the large 5.
                    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo/index.html

                    Michael Wilson
                  • palatine_ej
                    ... Hi Carol, I love the picture of your dog s head peeking out of her bike seat! They don t make moives like Old Yeller about cats. Eric
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 9, 2011
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                      >I am disabled and carry my service dog on handlebar (she is 7 lbs) in addition to all the normal traveling stuff.

                      Hi Carol,
                      I love the picture of your dog's head peeking out of her bike seat! They don't make moives like "Old Yeller" about cats.
                      Eric
                    • Carol
                      I agree and canceled the hub gear order and ordered the capreo 9 speed rear. Will try to install a front derailleur but it is dicey due to the tubes on a
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 9, 2011
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                        I agree and canceled the hub gear order and ordered the capreo 9 speed rear. Will try to install a front derailleur but it is dicey due to the tubes on a folder in weird locations and fatter. I just push the chain over to lower with my foot and have a hook that clips to frame that I stop and raise to higher gear with that but a front derailleur would definitely be easier. If I go that route the front der cable will have to be very short like less than a foot long to mount on seat stay right above der will that make it too hard to pull I don't mean because of location but strength with real short cable?Thank you when bike arrives I will post new pics. I also want to install a front der on my 20" folder for same reason.If you go to this page you can see the 16" one I am getting but mine is puke green pic will enlarge if clicked. I do a lot of bike work but am worried about the front der install as I would have to attack frame with drill not knowing ahead if it will work.
                        http://www.downtube.com/product533.html
                        Here is my 20" downtube
                        http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/latest-bikes/folding-bike/downtube/PRD_411778_5671crx.aspx
                      • Mike Wilson
                        The Capreo may be geared too tall for the gear range you want. Check carefully - you might prefer a standard cassette hub. Note that the small wheel may have
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 10, 2011
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                          The Capreo may be geared too tall for the gear range you want. Check carefully - you might prefer a standard cassette hub. Note that the small wheel may have an issue with a wide range derailleur hitting the ground. If the bike can tolerate a mountain derailleur, then a custom 9-34 capreo cassette might solve your problem (something like 9-10-11-13-16-20-24-28-34). This can be assembled by judicious purchase of Shimano cassettes, or by purchasing separate Miche or Marchesio cogs.

                          The main issue with installing a front derailleur is setting it up so that it can take cable housing. That used to be the standard way inexpensive front derailleurs worked, and it should not be hard to add appropriate cable stops to do that again, adding a shifter to the handlebar.

                          My desire for custom gearing is one reason why I do not buy many complete bikes.

                          Michael Wilson
                        • Mike Wilson
                          I just reread the bit about the front derailleur install. They used to make front derailleurs that mounted with a band clamp much like an automobile hose
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 10, 2011
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                            I just reread the bit about the front derailleur install.

                            They used to make front derailleurs that mounted with a band clamp much like an automobile hose clamp.

                            Also they make clamps for 1 3/8 tubes, and derailleurs are available without clamps to mount to a frame tab. Making a frame tab and using a hose clamp would probably be superior to drilling out the frame (although I have drilled and brazed frames before ...)

                            Michael Wilson
                          • Mike Wilson
                            RE: which front derailleur: I am using the Shimano Ultegra 10 speed non-triple FD6600. The angle matters; the more you pretend the seat tube is not vertical
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
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                              RE: which front derailleur:
                              I am using the Shimano Ultegra 10 speed non-triple FD6600. The angle matters; the more you pretend the seat tube is not vertical in the way you mount it the more range you get. On the DaHon allegro this deraileur works fine with the TA Pro5 (from velo-orange) and 26-46 chainrings - it appears that it would take a wider range. However the same derailleur is marginal on the Cervelo P4 with the 34-53 (yes 34-53) on the SRM powermeter cranks. Note also that with such a wide range, the front sprockets need to be more widely spaced if you are not going to have chain rub. Judicious application of small rivets or screws (1-72 ? 0-80?) on the large chainring can be used as a guide to help prevent the chain from sticking between the sprockets. Power shifting will not work well. Shimano double brifters will not pull enough cable for the front derailleur.

                              On the capreo - according to Sheldon's website the small 4 sprockets are unique but the large 5 are standard issue cassette cogs. The bigger issue would be ground clearance for any derailleur capable of handling a larger rear sprocket. There may be similar issues with getting enough chain wrap. Note that chain wrap can be vastly improved by larger derailleur pulleys. A larger top pulley will reduce the size of the largest usable rear sprocket. Either pulley getting larger will reduce the effectiveness of the derailleur side plates as cable guides - and yes they are used as cable guides.

                              For more ideas, see highpath.net and do a websearch on shimergo and look at Chris Juden's pages on the CTC website. There was another person, mostly mountain bike, who was doing things like 4 front sprockets; I forget how I found him or what his website was.

                              Michael Wilson
                            • Carol
                              Wow thanks for the links I do a lot of searching but never saw those.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
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                                Wow thanks for the links I do a lot of searching but never saw those.
                              • Rich W
                                Mike; In your second paragraph you refer to derailleur side plates as cable guides. Shouldnt that be Chain Guides or chain pushers/deflectors? Rich Wood
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
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                                  Mike;

                                  In your second paragraph you refer to derailleur side plates as cable guides. Shouldnt that be Chain Guides or chain pushers/deflectors?

                                  Rich Wood

                                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Wilson <mwilson@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > RE: which front derailleur:
                                  > I am using the Shimano Ultegra 10 speed non-triple FD6600. The angle matters; the more you pretend the seat tube is not vertical in the way you mount it the more range you get. On the DaHon allegro this deraileur works fine with the TA Pro5 (from velo-orange) and 26-46 chainrings - it appears that it would take a wider range. However the same derailleur is marginal on the Cervelo P4 with the 34-53 (yes 34-53) on the SRM powermeter cranks. Note also that with such a wide range, the front sprockets need to be more widely spaced if you are not going to have chain rub. Judicious application of small rivets or screws (1-72 ? 0-80?) on the large chainring can be used as a guide to help prevent the chain from sticking between the sprockets. Power shifting will not work well. Shimano double brifters will not pull enough cable for the front derailleur.
                                  >
                                  > On the capreo - according to Sheldon's website the small 4 sprockets are unique but the large 5 are standard issue cassette cogs. The bigger issue would be ground clearance for any derailleur capable of handling a larger rear sprocket. There may be similar issues with getting enough chain wrap. Note that chain wrap can be vastly improved by larger derailleur pulleys. A larger top pulley will reduce the size of the largest usable rear sprocket. Either pulley getting larger will reduce the effectiveness of the derailleur side plates as cable guides - and yes they are used as cable guides.
                                  >
                                  > For more ideas, see highpath.net and do a websearch on shimergo and look at Chris Juden's pages on the CTC website. There was another person, mostly mountain bike, who was doing things like 4 front sprockets; I forget how I found him or what his website was.
                                  >
                                  > Michael Wilson
                                  >
                                • Mike Wilson
                                  Rich Wood writes: In your second paragraph you refer to derailleur side plates as cable guides. Shouldnt that be Chain Guides or chain pushers/deflectors? Rich
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 12, 2011
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                                    Rich Wood writes:
                                    In your second paragraph you refer to derailleur side plates as cable guides. Shouldnt that be Chain Guides or chain pushers/deflectors?

                                    Rich Wood
                                    ---------------
                                    Thanks Rich for pointing out my writing error; yes chain guides was what I meant.

                                    Michael Wilson
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