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Re: Sturmey archer question

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  • Rich Wood
    Brandon; Not sure if it is the same unit but the Sturmey Archer web site still lists an S5 model gear hub. Probably not as it looks like the current S5 has a
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 13, 2008
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      Brandon;

      Not sure if it is the same unit but the Sturmey Archer web site
      still lists an S5 model gear hub. Probably not as it looks like the
      current S5 has a single cable control. Heard of it but I have never
      seen one.

      With the weak U.S. dollar the Rohloff hub is now in the $1200 to
      $1500 range here depending on configuration.

      Basically I consider it to be the Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace
      hub equivalent or maybe, considering it's gear range, the Shimano
      XTR of hubs. By reputation more durable than any of the above
      however. According to a PDF on the Thorn bikes web site about use
      of the hub, one owner has reportedly covered 190,000 Km on his
      Rohloff hub without failure, not counting cables and output
      sprockets I would presume. Not sure how many derailleurs, casettes
      and chainrings you would go through in that distance but I suspect a
      lot.

      When you look at the top end Shimano and Campy derailleur setups
      with derailleurs, combined brake and shifter levers along with rear
      hub and casette the Rohloff price does not appear too bad. A recent
      price check I did showed the Campy Record rear derailleur at over
      $400 and the brifters at about $600 U.S.

      I am thinking of getting the SRAM 5 speed hub and building a wheel
      for my fixed gear bike frame. I currently have the fixed gear wheel
      and a older Sachs 3 speed wheel for it. The SRAM unit is available
      with the proper width to fit the narrow frame dropouts well.

      Rich Wood


      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
      <rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
      >
      > Disc brakes are expensive but effective on mountain bikes and yes i
      > would prefer to have disc brakes on my bike in the wet also have
      you
      > heard of the old S5 rich?, its a interesting hub used on 1970s
      > dragsters and touring bikes.
      > I would like a rohloff but they are from a bike review site $850!
      > probably worth it but with the same money i could buy a brand new
      > giant road bike and have a shimano nexus hub installed on it.
      >
      > Brandon.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
      > <astronut1001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Brandon;
      > >
      > > Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
      > > versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
      > > Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting
      provisions
      > > on the frame and front forks however.
      > >
      > > Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet
      weather.
      > > This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims,
      a
      > > bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad
      materials.
      > >
      > > Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about
      tires
      > > overheating in long downhill descents. Disc brakes are becoming
      > > commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their
      better
      > > wet weather performance. Also very common on better mountain
      bikes.
      > >
      > > If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still
      list 3,
      > > 5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety. No idea of availability
      down
      > > under however. Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
      > > site.
      > >
      > > http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php
      > >
      > > Rohloff does have an Aussie branch. Here is a link to it.
      > >
      > > http://www.rohloff.com.au/
      > >
      > > Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links
      seem
      > > to be not functional on the Aussie site. If you are truly
      > > interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
      > > manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages. It is in 3
      parts
      > > in PDF format. Here is a link to their downloads page. If
      nothing
      > > else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.
      > >
      > > http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453
      > >
      > > Rich Wood
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
      > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't
      know
      > > > they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
      > > >
      > > > The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
      > > > amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
      > > >
      > > > My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't
      have
      > > any
      > > > nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in
      England
      > > and is
      > > > genuine.
      > > >
      > > > I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have
      a
      > > look
      > > > in my Sturmey archer folder.
      > > >
      > > > Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on
      the
      > > > pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one
      very
      > > nice
      > > > place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best
      of
      > > all it
      > > > is next to the beach.
      > > >
      > > > i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with
      two
      > > > cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the
      left
      > > > side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod
      into
      > > the
      > > > hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
      > > extremely
      > > > good hub.
      > > >
      > > > Brandon.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • brandon
      I am putting a picture of my S5 on here. Brandon.
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 13, 2008
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        I am putting a picture of my S5 on here.

        Brandon.
        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
        <astronut1001@...> wrote:
        >
        > Brandon;
        >
        > Not sure if it is the same unit but the Sturmey Archer web site
        > still lists an S5 model gear hub. Probably not as it looks like the
        > current S5 has a single cable control. Heard of it but I have never
        > seen one.
        >
        > With the weak U.S. dollar the Rohloff hub is now in the $1200 to
        > $1500 range here depending on configuration.
        >
        > Basically I consider it to be the Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace
        > hub equivalent or maybe, considering it's gear range, the Shimano
        > XTR of hubs. By reputation more durable than any of the above
        > however. According to a PDF on the Thorn bikes web site about use
        > of the hub, one owner has reportedly covered 190,000 Km on his
        > Rohloff hub without failure, not counting cables and output
        > sprockets I would presume. Not sure how many derailleurs, casettes
        > and chainrings you would go through in that distance but I suspect a
        > lot.
        >
        > When you look at the top end Shimano and Campy derailleur setups
        > with derailleurs, combined brake and shifter levers along with rear
        > hub and casette the Rohloff price does not appear too bad. A recent
        > price check I did showed the Campy Record rear derailleur at over
        > $400 and the brifters at about $600 U.S.
        >
        > I am thinking of getting the SRAM 5 speed hub and building a wheel
        > for my fixed gear bike frame. I currently have the fixed gear wheel
        > and a older Sachs 3 speed wheel for it. The SRAM unit is available
        > with the proper width to fit the narrow frame dropouts well.
        >
        > Rich Wood
        >
        >
        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
        > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Disc brakes are expensive but effective on mountain bikes and yes i
        > > would prefer to have disc brakes on my bike in the wet also have
        > you
        > > heard of the old S5 rich?, its a interesting hub used on 1970s
        > > dragsters and touring bikes.
        > > I would like a rohloff but they are from a bike review site $850!
        > > probably worth it but with the same money i could buy a brand new
        > > giant road bike and have a shimano nexus hub installed on it.
        > >
        > > Brandon.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
        > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Brandon;
        > > >
        > > > Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
        > > > versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
        > > > Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting
        > provisions
        > > > on the frame and front forks however.
        > > >
        > > > Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet
        > weather.
        > > > This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims,
        > a
        > > > bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad
        > materials.
        > > >
        > > > Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about
        > tires
        > > > overheating in long downhill descents. Disc brakes are becoming
        > > > commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their
        > better
        > > > wet weather performance. Also very common on better mountain
        > bikes.
        > > >
        > > > If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still
        > list 3,
        > > > 5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety. No idea of availability
        > down
        > > > under however. Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
        > > > site.
        > > >
        > > > http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php
        > > >
        > > > Rohloff does have an Aussie branch. Here is a link to it.
        > > >
        > > > http://www.rohloff.com.au/
        > > >
        > > > Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links
        > seem
        > > > to be not functional on the Aussie site. If you are truly
        > > > interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
        > > > manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages. It is in 3
        > parts
        > > > in PDF format. Here is a link to their downloads page. If
        > nothing
        > > > else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.
        > > >
        > > > http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453
        > > >
        > > > Rich Wood
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
        > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't
        > know
        > > > > they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
        > > > >
        > > > > The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
        > > > > amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
        > > > >
        > > > > My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't
        > have
        > > > any
        > > > > nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in
        > England
        > > > and is
        > > > > genuine.
        > > > >
        > > > > I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have
        > a
        > > > look
        > > > > in my Sturmey archer folder.
        > > > >
        > > > > Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on
        > the
        > > > > pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one
        > very
        > > > nice
        > > > > place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best
        > of
        > > > all it
        > > > > is next to the beach.
        > > > >
        > > > > i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with
        > two
        > > > > cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the
        > left
        > > > > side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod
        > into
        > > > the
        > > > > hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
        > > > extremely
        > > > > good hub.
        > > > >
        > > > > Brandon.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Mark Stonich
        ... While I m sure some were raced, the AM was intended for the non-competitive sporting rider. The AC and earlier AR had much closer ratios and were better
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 21, 2008
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          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
          > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare Sturmey
          > Archer hub. Originally it was designed for sports use. Almost all
          > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
          > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
          > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.

          While I'm sure some were raced, the AM was intended for the
          non-competitive sporting rider. The AC and earlier AR had much closer
          ratios and were better suited for TTs.

          Looking at the exploded views on Hadland's site The AM appears to be
          much more robust. Much the same design as the FW & S5. One of the
          guys on our Saturday rides uses an AM, even when we go off-road. And
          we've had a few on the Lake Pepin event.
        • Mike Bullis
          I ve been inside my AM once or twice and I would have guessed I was looking at the guts of an FW or S5, except for the lack of a secondary sun gear. Got
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 21, 2008
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            I've been inside my AM once or twice and I would have guessed I was looking at the guts of an FW or S5, except for the lack of a secondary sun gear. Got lucky recently when I bought a box of parts and there were a few AM and few FW shift rods in it.

            --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
            From: Mark Stonich <mark@...>
            Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: Sturmey archer question
            To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 7:39 PM

            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich Wood"
            > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare Sturmey
            > Archer hub. Originally it was designed for sports use. Almost all
            > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
            > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
            > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.

            While I'm sure some were raced, the AM was intended for the
            non-competitive sporting rider. The AC and earlier AR had much closer
            ratios and were better suited for TTs.

            Looking at the exploded views on Hadland's site The AM appears to be
            much more robust. Much the same design as the FW & S5. One of the
            guys on our Saturday rides uses an AM, even when we go off-road. And
            we've had a few on the Lake Pepin event.


          • Rich Wood
            Mark; Were virtually all British TTs reasonably flat? I remember a TDF TT that was held on Alp d Huez as I recall. ;-) Rich Wood ... Sturmey ... all ...
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 22, 2008
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              Mark;

              Were virtually all British TTs reasonably flat? I remember a TDF TT
              that was held on Alp d'Huez as I recall. ;-)

              Rich Wood


              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Stonich" <mark@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
              > > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare
              Sturmey
              > > Archer hub. Originally it was designed for sports use. Almost
              all
              > > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
              > > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
              > > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
              >
              > While I'm sure some were raced, the AM was intended for the
              > non-competitive sporting rider. The AC and earlier AR had much
              closer
              > ratios and were better suited for TTs.
              >
              > Looking at the exploded views on Hadland's site The AM appears to
              be
              > much more robust. Much the same design as the FW & S5. One of the
              > guys on our Saturday rides uses an AM, even when we go off-road.
              And
              > we've had a few on the Lake Pepin event.
              >
            • Mark Stonich
              ... I don t know about virtually all but there was a tendency to design courses that would produce fast times. Such as using the shoulders of busy motorways
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 25, 2008
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                At 11:59 AM 11/22/2008, you wrote:
                >Were virtually all British TTs reasonably flat?

                I don't know about "virtually all" but there was a tendency to design
                courses that would produce fast times. Such as using the shoulders
                of busy motorways to take advantage of the "Tailwind" created by
                passing cars. I do know that John Woodburn used ACs and FCs for his
                attempts at the Cardiff to London record which he finally got. 162
                miles and not particularly flat. Hill climbs were basically uphill
                TTs and usually done on a single speed bike.

                >I remember a TDF TT that was held on Alp d'Huez as I recall. ;-)

                Refresh my memory, is that in Surry or Kent?


                Mark Stonich;
                BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                5349 Elliot Ave S. - Minneapolis. MN 55417
                Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
                http://mnhpva.org
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