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Brake Updates

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  • Rich
    If considering doing an IGH conversion to an older frame also consider updating the brakes. With decent pads modern dual pivot sidepull brakes are more
    Message 1 of 13 , May 2, 2010
      If considering doing an IGH conversion to an older frame also consider updating the brakes. With decent pads modern dual pivot sidepull brakes are more progressive and stronger than most older caliper brakes.

      Tektro offers modern dual pivot brakes from short reach as used on most current road bikes to ones with a lot of reach to work with older frames that were usually fitted with center pull brakes. Per the Harris Cyclery web site reaches are available from 39mm to 73mm. Many are available with the old style external nut mounting option too, allowing installation on unmodified older frames. Some of these could also ease wheel size conversions where the original brakes will no longer work.

      http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html

      The Tektro web site also lists two dual pivot brakes, listed as for the Japanese market, with reaches of 61 to 78mm and 72 to 92mm. Not sure if either of these is available here. These are models 800A and 900A.

      Shimano also makes at least two 47mm to 57mm reach dual pivot brakes, the R450 and R650 models. The R650 is claimed to be Ultegra level construction and performance. Both are also carried by Harris Cyclery or some other dealers.

      Lots of good brakes available today and with modern traffic we need every advantage available.

      Rich Wood
    • Mark Stonich
      ... I carry the 800A for $30 pair. You can see them on this bike . The 73mm Tectros are nicely
      Message 2 of 13 , May 2, 2010
        On 5/2/10 3:16 PM, Rich wrote:
        The Tektro web site also lists two dual pivot brakes, listed as for the Japanese market, with reaches of 61 to 78mm and 72 to 92mm. Not sure if either of these is available here. These are models 800A and 900A.
        I carry the 800A for $30 pair.  You can see them on this bike.

        The 73mm Tectros are nicely finished but the only difference from normal reach brakes is that the pad arms are longer.  Stiffness and leverage suffer.  OTOH the 800As are scaled up in all dimensions, stiff and powerful.  On a Raleigh 3 speed the pads end up right in the middle of the slot. Also great for 650B conversions.

        BTW The 24 and 26t IGH cogs should be here soon.  

        -- 
        Mark Stonich;   
          BikeSmith Design & Fabrication 
            5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
               Ph. (612) 824-2372   http://bikesmithdesign.com
      • Rich
        Mark; Looks like those are large and heavy duty brakes at an excellent price. Glad to hear that they work well too. Rich Wood
        Message 3 of 13 , May 3, 2010
          Mark;

          Looks like those are large and heavy duty brakes at an excellent price. Glad to hear that they work well too.

          Rich Wood

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 5/2/10 3:16 PM, Rich wrote:
          > > <http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html>The Tektro web
          > > site also lists two dual pivot brakes, listed as for the Japanese
          > > market, with reaches of 61 to 78mm and 72 to 92mm. Not sure if either
          > > of these is available here. These are models 800A and 900A.
          > I carry the 800A for $30 pair. You can see them on this bike
          > <http://bikesmithdesign.com/MyBikes/Raleigh/sports.html>.
          >
          > The 73mm Tectros are nicely finished but the only difference from normal
          > reach brakes is that the pad arms are longer. Stiffness and leverage
          > suffer. OTOH the 800As are scaled up in all dimensions, stiff and
          > powerful. On a Raleigh 3 speed the pads end up right in the middle of
          > the slot. Also great for 650B conversions.
          >
          > BTW The 24 and 26t IGH cogs should be here soon.
          >
          > --
          > Mark Stonich;
          > BikeSmith Design& Fabrication
          > 5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
          > Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
          >
        • Mike Wilson
          Mark Stonich writes: The 73mm Tectros are nicely finished but the only difference from normal reach brakes is that the pad arms are longer. Stiffness and
          Message 4 of 13 , May 3, 2010
            Mark Stonich writes:
            The 73mm Tectros are nicely finished but the only difference from normal
            reach brakes is that the pad arms are longer. Stiffness and leverage
            suffer. OTOH the 800As are scaled up in all dimensions, stiff and
            powerful. On a Raleigh 3 speed the pads end up right in the middle of
            the slot. Also great for 650B conversions.

            ---------------
            I believe I concur with Mark but I am not sure of the part_numbers. The
            Tektro that is one size more reach than current Shimano road standard is
            not very useful to me - the quick release does not release far enough,
            and most bikes that want a longer reach want a much longer reach. The
            next longer reach works quite well even with Shimano brifters and the
            quick release opens enough to get around a 27x1 1/4 tire mounted on a
            20 mm rim. This model can nicely replace a weinmann 750 centerpull, and
            I think also the 610. Although the 610 works OK on narrow rims if I can
            get the brake shoes moved 5 mm or so in from the caliper arm. This is
            non-trivial with the hardware one gets with brake shoes.

            Michael Wilson
          • chkamb
            Dear Rich I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks
            Message 5 of 13 , May 3, 2010
              Dear Rich

              I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
              Chris
            • Rich
              A lot of even current brakes can be improved by a change of brake pads. The Kool Stop Salmon pads are supposed to be excellent and reasonably priced. I have
              Message 6 of 13 , May 3, 2010
                A lot of even current brakes can be improved by a change of brake pads. The Kool Stop Salmon pads are supposed to be excellent and reasonably priced. I have also read good things about Swiss Stop pads and the new Shimano pad material as used on the BR-6700 Ultegra brakes and the BR-7900 Dura Ace brakes is supposed to be outstanding for both wet and dry use per users posts on BF.

                With todays traffic conditions in urban, and many suburban, areas I want good and easily modulated brakes.

                Rich Wood

                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "chkamb" <chkamb@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Rich
                >
                > I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
                > Chris
                >
              • Mike Wilson
                chkamb chkamb@gmx.de writes: I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear
                Message 7 of 13 , May 4, 2010
                  chkamb" chkamb@... writes:

                  I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
                  Chris
                  ----------------
                  I have the R556 on the front of my wet-weather commuter; it works OK. I am using Kool-Stop pads. One trick is that I use washers between the brake shoes and the arms, and longer than stock shoe mounting bolts. This compensates for the narrow rim; the brake is clearly designed for a rim somewhere in the 27-30 mm width and I am using 21 mm wide rims. As stated, it is a clear step up from the Weinmann 610 that was on the bike before; part of that is the issue of centerpull brake hanger flex.

                  I have no idea why I did not add washers between the arms and shoes on the Zero-G brakes. That would have been a big improvement. The brakes would bottom out on the adjusting screw unless I had that set up with no available adjustment.

                  Michael Wilson
                • chkamb
                  Dear Michael, Would be nice if you could post a picture of your washer solution (or send me a pm with a picture). I think this is interesting for many members.
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 5, 2010
                    Dear Michael,

                    Would be nice if you could post a picture of your washer solution (or send me a pm with a picture). I think this is interesting for many members. The longer mounting bolts trick is very interesting - I will tell it to my neighbour..
                    Thanks,
                    Chris

                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Wilson <mwilson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > chkamb" chkamb@... writes:
                    >
                    > I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
                    > Chris
                    > ----------------
                    > I have the R556 on the front of my wet-weather commuter; it works OK. I am using Kool-Stop pads. One trick is that I use washers between the brake shoes and the arms, and longer than stock shoe mounting bolts. This compensates for the narrow rim; the brake is clearly designed for a rim somewhere in the 27-30 mm width and I am using 21 mm wide rims. As stated, it is a clear step up from the Weinmann 610 that was on the bike before; part of that is the issue of centerpull brake hanger flex.
                    >
                    > I have no idea why I did not add washers between the arms and shoes on the Zero-G brakes. That would have been a big improvement. The brakes would bottom out on the adjusting screw unless I had that set up with no available adjustment.
                    >
                    > Michael Wilson
                    >
                  • Rich
                    Basically the same as using the included spacers on threaded brake pad cantilevers or V brakes to get the pad reach correct for the arm geometry. This is
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 5, 2010
                      Basically the same as using the included spacers on threaded brake pad cantilevers or V brakes to get the pad reach correct for the arm geometry. This is covered in the documentation that came with my Avid Shorty 6 cantilever brakes.

                      This, along with using brake pad holders with angle adjustment, should allow getting caliper brakes to work with a variety of rim widths narrower than the brakes are designed for.

                      Rich Wood

                      --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "chkamb" <chkamb@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Michael,
                      >
                      > Would be nice if you could post a picture of your washer solution (or send me a pm with a picture). I think this is interesting for many members. The longer mounting bolts trick is very interesting - I will tell it to my neighbour..
                      > Thanks,
                      > Chris
                      >
                      > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Wilson <mwilson@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > chkamb" chkamb@ writes:
                      > >
                      > > I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
                      > > Chris
                      > > ----------------
                      > > I have the R556 on the front of my wet-weather commuter; it works OK. I am using Kool-Stop pads. One trick is that I use washers between the brake shoes and the arms, and longer than stock shoe mounting bolts. This compensates for the narrow rim; the brake is clearly designed for a rim somewhere in the 27-30 mm width and I am using 21 mm wide rims. As stated, it is a clear step up from the Weinmann 610 that was on the bike before; part of that is the issue of centerpull brake hanger flex.
                      > >
                      > > I have no idea why I did not add washers between the arms and shoes on the Zero-G brakes. That would have been a big improvement. The brakes would bottom out on the adjusting screw unless I had that set up with no available adjustment.
                      > >
                      > > Michael Wilson
                      > >
                      >
                    • Rich
                      Here is another trick, courtesy of Sheldon Brown, on using modern recessed nut brake calipers on older bikes with mountings intended for the old externally
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 5, 2010
                        Here is another trick, courtesy of Sheldon Brown, on using modern recessed nut brake calipers on older bikes with mountings intended for the old externally nutted brakes.

                        http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#recessed

                        Two front calipers are required.

                        Rich Wood

                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Basically the same as using the included spacers on threaded brake pad cantilevers or V brakes to get the pad reach correct for the arm geometry. This is covered in the documentation that came with my Avid Shorty 6 cantilever brakes.
                        >
                        > This, along with using brake pad holders with angle adjustment, should allow getting caliper brakes to work with a variety of rim widths narrower than the brakes are designed for.
                        >
                        > Rich Wood
                        >
                        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "chkamb" <chkamb@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dear Michael,
                        > >
                        > > Would be nice if you could post a picture of your washer solution (or send me a pm with a picture). I think this is interesting for many members. The longer mounting bolts trick is very interesting - I will tell it to my neighbour..
                        > > Thanks,
                        > > Chris
                        > >
                        > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Mike Wilson <mwilson@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > chkamb" chkamb@ writes:
                        > > >
                        > > > I have a Tektro R556 rear brake on my East German Diamant road bike. The reach of the brake is 55-73mm as the frame needs a rear reach of 62mm. Looks OK, brakes sufficiently (?). I sold the front brake to my neighbour who was building a low cost foixed gear bike with just a front brake. his experience is: wet and rainy weather: braking is challenging with the R556 ;-)
                        > > > Chris
                        > > > ----------------
                        > > > I have the R556 on the front of my wet-weather commuter; it works OK. I am using Kool-Stop pads. One trick is that I use washers between the brake shoes and the arms, and longer than stock shoe mounting bolts. This compensates for the narrow rim; the brake is clearly designed for a rim somewhere in the 27-30 mm width and I am using 21 mm wide rims. As stated, it is a clear step up from the Weinmann 610 that was on the bike before; part of that is the issue of centerpull brake hanger flex.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have no idea why I did not add washers between the arms and shoes on the Zero-G brakes. That would have been a big improvement. The brakes would bottom out on the adjusting screw unless I had that set up with no available adjustment.
                        > > >
                        > > > Michael Wilson
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Mike Wilson
                        Sometimes when you convert an old bike to recessed nuts, a rear brake can be used on the front with a LONG brake nut. It depends on the thickness of the fork
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 6, 2010
                          Sometimes when you convert an old bike to recessed nuts, a rear brake can be used on the front with a LONG brake nut. It depends on the thickness of the fork crown. You do have to think about the brake pads. I believe I was able to do that on the Paramount with the R556s.

                          What I do not understand is that the Paramount did not work with the Weinmann 610s and Shimano brifters, but the Motobecane Nomad snow bike works just fine that way. My only guess is the shorter clearance on the Motobecane.

                          Michael Wilson
                        • Mike Wilson
                          I have started mounting my rear brakes inside the rear triangle when possible. This allows easy access to the brake mount bolt for fender mounting. I try to
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 6, 2010
                            I have started mounting my rear brakes inside the rear triangle when possible. This allows easy access to the brake mount bolt for fender mounting. I try to make my fenders go on and off easily. This allows the bike to go into a car trunk with less effort.

                            Michael Wilson
                          • Rick Paulos
                            Paramounts have been around since the 1940s but they were changed repeatedly. Built in Chicago, Wisconsin, Japan, Taiwan, made by Serrotta, etc. One local
                            Message 13 of 13 , May 6, 2010
                              Paramounts have been around since the 1940s but they were changed
                              repeatedly. Built in Chicago, Wisconsin, Japan, Taiwan, made by
                              Serrotta, etc. One local lbs has a very decent Paramount from the
                              early years, its a 3 speed (sturmey archer) up right bike with all
                              steel components. I'd guess they peaked in popularity in the
                              1970s. But they weren't racing bikes then. In the 1970s, touring
                              was the peak of cycling in the USA and that was Schwinn's market for
                              the paramount.

                              I owned a 72 paramount and I still own a 73 Raleigh International I
                              bought new. They are nearly identical bikes. 531, nervex lugs,
                              mostly campy with weinman brakes stock. I exchanged my sewups for
                              clinchers. About the same price too. If you wanted a racing bike,
                              you paid $175 more and bought a raleigh pro. Tighter frame and all
                              campy. Then in 1974 came the Masi's Whoo hooo. The immaculate lug
                              work made all the other bikes look cheap and set the standard for all
                              bikes since.

                              The french Motobecanes had more euro racing influence. They were
                              competing with peugeot, gitane, lejune and other companies supplying
                              racing bikes to the pros.

                              I owned a Nomad too. Ugh. Bottom of the line. We had 1 that failed
                              in the bike shop. The steerer tube is seamed low carbon steel. The
                              expander from the stem split the seam open. The owner kept crankin
                              on the stem bolt until the fork locked up inside the frame. it
                              was bugger to remove.

                              Rick

                              At 10:09 AM 5/6/2010, you wrote:
                              >Sometimes when you convert an old bike to recessed nuts, a rear
                              >brake can be used on the front with a LONG brake nut. It depends on
                              >the thickness of the fork crown. You do have to think about the
                              >brake pads. I believe I was able to do that on the Paramount with the R556s.
                              >
                              >What I do not understand is that the Paramount did not work with the
                              >Weinmann 610s and Shimano brifters, but the Motobecane Nomad snow
                              >bike works just fine that way. My only guess is the shorter
                              >clearance on the Motobecane.
                              >
                              >Michael Wilson
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------
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