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IGH Axle Nuts

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  • Rich
    I ran across a post on BF indicating that Shimano IGH units use 10mm axle nuts. Per the Shimano Alfine parts list the axle nuts are described as 3/8 which
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2009
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      I ran across a post on BF indicating that Shimano IGH units use 10mm axle nuts. Per the Shimano Alfine parts list the axle nuts are described as 3/8" which would be closer to 9.5mm but no thread pitch is listed. Did Shimano originally copy SA hubs axle threading for their IGH units and still continue to use that threading or is this Shimano proprietary threading?

      Per the Rohloff and SRAM manuals the iM3, iM9 and solid axle Rohloff hubs do use 10mm x 1mm axle nuts which means that rear wheel track nuts should also work. The new Torpedo SS/FG hub also uses 10mm x 1mm axle nuts.

      The other SRAM hubs are listed as taking "FG 10.5" axle nuts, whatever they are, per the SRAM parts manual.

      Looks to me like you need to be sure of the threading of IGH axles as the nuts are apparently oddball size or pitch in some cases. Do not presume that they are standard 10mm as used for virtually all rear track hubs and bolt on derailleur rear hubs. Use of slightly oversize or incorrect pitch nuts risks damage to IGH axle threads.

      Rich Wood
    • henrysheil
      FG threads 101 To the shame of us that only speak and search for information through English, I have found that FG means Fahrad Gewinde ( Bicycle Thread )
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 1, 2009
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        FG threads 101

        To the shame of us that only speak and search for information through English, I have found that FG means "Fahrad Gewinde" ("Bicycle Thread") which is the German Bicycle Thread standard (DIN 79012), a very strange-looking mix of metric and imperial specs!

        BTW All modern spokes are threaded to this standard, so don't knock it.

        Sachs use FG 10.5 axles, which is 10.5 mm diameter and 26 TPI, and I have found that Sturmey Archer actually uses FG 10.3 (also called 13/32") which is very slightly smaller diameter (<0.2mm smaller) but the same in all other respects.

        The European decimal point is a comma, so that was why it was so hard to find info about FG 10.5, but easier using FG 10,5!

        When new there is very little difference between them (especially when you consider the whole other technical aspect of allowable tolerances/classes of fit/allowances on basic sizes because nothing can be made absolutely the exact size intended, talking in some tenths of mm or thousandths of an inch).

        This suggests that a Sachs/SRAM FG 10.5 axle that is slightly worn (like my old series Duomatic) might be salvaged for continued use by merely using the Sturmey Archer FG 10.3 nuts which are just slightly smaller and tighter, which I have done very easily. The reverse isn't true, since the SRAM is already larger than Sturmey.

        Note also that 10 x 1 mm track nuts fit a few makes of hub, but NOT Campagnolo which uses 10mm x 26tpi, yet another odd-ball thread that may or may not be included in the DIN 79012 standard, I dunno.

        Cheers
        Henry
        Western Australia

        PS
        see http://www.fahrradmonteur.de/fahrradgewinde.php
        for an absolutely fantastic reference, in German. It's not hard to figure it out. Remember the European practice is to use a comma for the decimal point.


        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
        >
        > I ran across a post on BF indicating that Shimano IGH units use 10mm axle nuts. Per the Shimano Alfine parts list the axle nuts are described as 3/8" which would be closer to 9.5mm but no thread pitch is listed. Did Shimano originally copy SA hubs axle threading for their IGH units and still continue to use that threading or is this Shimano proprietary threading?
        >
        > Per the Rohloff and SRAM manuals the iM3, iM9 and solid axle Rohloff hubs do use 10mm x 1mm axle nuts which means that rear wheel track nuts should also work. The new Torpedo SS/FG hub also uses 10mm x 1mm axle nuts.
        >
        > The other SRAM hubs are listed as taking "FG 10.5" axle nuts, whatever they are, per the SRAM parts manual.
        >
        > Looks to me like you need to be sure of the threading of IGH axles as the nuts are apparently oddball size or pitch in some cases. Do not presume that they are standard 10mm as used for virtually all rear track hubs and bolt on derailleur rear hubs. Use of slightly oversize or incorrect pitch nuts risks damage to IGH axle threads.
        >
        > Rich Wood
        >
      • Rich
        Surprising how common cycling specific threads were. The British had BSC (British Standard Cycle) and then CEI (Cycle Engineers Institute) and the Italians
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2009
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          Surprising how common cycling specific threads were. The British had BSC (British Standard Cycle) and then CEI (Cycle Engineers Institute) and the Italians had Italian cycle threads standards which were a mix of metric diameters and inch pitch threads apparently. And of course the French had their national cycle thread standard too which were all metric dimensions.

          I wonder if all the national threads, and the proprietary ones too such as Raleigh, were due to the cycle industry being one of the first true mass production industries that required lots of interchangeable threaded parts. They started mass production before national or international thread standards were developed or became common.

          The American watch and gun industries did the same thing and it would not surprise me if early sewing machines also used similar proprietary thread standards. They are all among the early mass produced consumer products requiring accurately machined parts.

          True international thread standards such as ISO Metric were not agreed on till after WW2 and I can remember Honda motorcycles which used JIS metric threads. My metric threads table also lists French Metric threads as having non standard thread pitches in many sizes compared to ISO Metric standards.

          Rich Wood

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "henrysheil" <henrys@...> wrote:
          >
          > FG threads 101
          >
          > To the shame of us that only speak and search for information through English, I have found that FG means "Fahrad Gewinde" ("Bicycle Thread") which is the German Bicycle Thread standard (DIN 79012), a very strange-looking mix of metric and imperial specs!
          >
          > BTW All modern spokes are threaded to this standard, so don't knock it.
          >
          > Sachs use FG 10.5 axles, which is 10.5 mm diameter and 26 TPI, and I have found that Sturmey Archer actually uses FG 10.3 (also called 13/32") which is very slightly smaller diameter (<0.2mm smaller) but the same in all other respects.
          >
          > The European decimal point is a comma, so that was why it was so hard to find info about FG 10.5, but easier using FG 10,5!
          >
          > When new there is very little difference between them (especially when you consider the whole other technical aspect of allowable tolerances/classes of fit/allowances on basic sizes because nothing can be made absolutely the exact size intended, talking in some tenths of mm or thousandths of an inch).
          >
          > This suggests that a Sachs/SRAM FG 10.5 axle that is slightly worn (like my old series Duomatic) might be salvaged for continued use by merely using the Sturmey Archer FG 10.3 nuts which are just slightly smaller and tighter, which I have done very easily. The reverse isn't true, since the SRAM is already larger than Sturmey.
          >
          > Note also that 10 x 1 mm track nuts fit a few makes of hub, but NOT Campagnolo which uses 10mm x 26tpi, yet another odd-ball thread that may or may not be included in the DIN 79012 standard, I dunno.
          >
          > Cheers
          > Henry
          > Western Australia
          >
          > PS
          > see http://www.fahrradmonteur.de/fahrradgewinde.php
          > for an absolutely fantastic reference, in German. It's not hard to figure it out. Remember the European practice is to use a comma for the decimal point.
          >
          >
          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich" <astronut1001@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I ran across a post on BF indicating that Shimano IGH units use 10mm axle nuts. Per the Shimano Alfine parts list the axle nuts are described as 3/8" which would be closer to 9.5mm but no thread pitch is listed. Did Shimano originally copy SA hubs axle threading for their IGH units and still continue to use that threading or is this Shimano proprietary threading?
          > >
          > > Per the Rohloff and SRAM manuals the iM3, iM9 and solid axle Rohloff hubs do use 10mm x 1mm axle nuts which means that rear wheel track nuts should also work. The new Torpedo SS/FG hub also uses 10mm x 1mm axle nuts.
          > >
          > > The other SRAM hubs are listed as taking "FG 10.5" axle nuts, whatever they are, per the SRAM parts manual.
          > >
          > > Looks to me like you need to be sure of the threading of IGH axles as the nuts are apparently oddball size or pitch in some cases. Do not presume that they are standard 10mm as used for virtually all rear track hubs and bolt on derailleur rear hubs. Use of slightly oversize or incorrect pitch nuts risks damage to IGH axle threads.
          > >
          > > Rich Wood
          > >
          >
        • prester_john_in_cathay
          ... I would use track nuts only in a pinch and with great caution. The reason the IGH complaint is most commonly my axle _nut_ striped is the hub designers
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 2, 2009
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            > Per the Rohloff and SRAM manuals the
            > iM3, iM9 and solid axle Rohloff hubs
            > do use 10mm x 1mm axle nuts which means
            > that rear wheel track nuts should also
            > work. The new Torpedo SS/FG hub also
            > uses 10mm x 1mm axle nuts.

            I would use track nuts only in a pinch and with great caution. The reason the IGH complaint is most commonly "my axle _nut_ striped" is the hub designers have specified the metalurgy and heat treatment of the components so that the inexpensive, easily replaced nut's tread will fail before the relatively expensive, not so easy to replace axle's thread.

            Best,
            PJ
          • Rich
            PJ; A good point. Sometimes hard to find the correct nuts though. IMO just another case of the lack of standardization in the bicycle industry. Rich Wood
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 2, 2009
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              PJ;

              A good point. Sometimes hard to find the correct nuts though. IMO just another case of the lack of standardization in the bicycle industry.

              Rich Wood


              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "prester_john_in_cathay" <prester_john_in_cathay@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Per the Rohloff and SRAM manuals the
              > > iM3, iM9 and solid axle Rohloff hubs
              > > do use 10mm x 1mm axle nuts which means
              > > that rear wheel track nuts should also
              > > work. The new Torpedo SS/FG hub also
              > > uses 10mm x 1mm axle nuts.
              >
              > I would use track nuts only in a pinch and with great caution. The reason the IGH complaint is most commonly "my axle _nut_ striped" is the hub designers have specified the metalurgy and heat treatment of the components so that the inexpensive, easily replaced nut's tread will fail before the relatively expensive, not so easy to replace axle's thread.
              >
              > Best,
              > PJ
              >
            • Bruce Alan Wilson
              I remember that my mother had a bicycle that we bought from Sears but was made in Europe, and therefore had metric nuts, which we had a time finding. Bruce
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 2, 2009
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                I remember that my mother had a bicycle that we bought from Sears but was made in Europe, and therefore had metric nuts, which we had a time finding.
                 
                 
                 

                The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart.  ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
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