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new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube

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  • Electrify Me
    Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took. Rich Wood Hello IGH Group,        Long winded, but
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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      Hello IGH Group,
             Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions...........
             I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lgs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
       
      Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
      I am not changing my rim size.
       
      Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
      It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
       
       
            I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
      lightweight aluminum rim.
       
            Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
       
      IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
                     Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
         
      IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
                                   external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
       
        This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
       
       
       
      I also found
      RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
      These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
       
       
      Regards,
      Warren

    • Rich
      Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC. No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
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        Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.

        No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.

        Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.

        If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.

        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@...> wrote:
        >
        > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
        >
        > Rich Wood
        >
        >
        > Hello IGH Group,
        >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions............
        >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
        >  
        > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
        > I am not changing my rim size.
        >  
        > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
        > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
        >  
        >  
        >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
        > lightweight aluminum rim.
        >  
        >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
        >  
        > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
        >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
        >    
        > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
        >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
        >  
        >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
        > http://cgi.ebay.com.my/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290328931411
        >  
        >  
        >  
        > I also found
        > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
        >  
        >  
        > Regards,
        > Warren
        >
      • Rich
        Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim,
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim, generally not as strong as double wall construction.

          http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims/590.html

          Rich Wood

          --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
          >
          > Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.
          >
          > No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.
          >
          > Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.
          >
          > If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.
          >
          > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
          > >
          > > Rich Wood
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello IGH Group,
          > >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions............
          > >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
          > >  
          > > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
          > > I am not changing my rim size.
          > >  
          > > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
          > > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
          > >  
          > >  
          > >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
          > > lightweight aluminum rim.
          > >  
          > >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
          > >  
          > > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
          > >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
          > >    
          > > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
          > >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
          > >  
          > >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
          > > http://cgi.ebay.com.my/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290328931411
          > >  
          > >  
          > >  
          > > I also found
          > > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
          > >  
          > >  
          > > Regards,
          > > Warren
          > >
          >
        • Mark Stonich
          ... How many of you have had problems with the AWs false neutral ? If it wasn t for a weak clutch spring on a Moulton several years ago, I d be convinced that
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
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            At  10/10/2009 07:00 PM +0000, Rich wrote:
            No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had.

            How many of you have had problems with the AWs "false neutral"?

            If it wasn't for a weak clutch spring on a Moulton several years ago, I'd be convinced that it was an urban myth.  We've had zero occurrences in the last 7 years.


            If the indicator is adjusted correctly, and you are still getting a false neutral when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, it's because the spring is not pushing the clutch far enough to engage the protruding ends of the planet pins.

            Most likely something is creating too much drag for the spring to overcome.

            Sticky cable; lube or replace

            Sticky trigger; lube or replace

            Varnish (dried out old oil) build-up;  Strip hub and clean thoroughly

            Burrs or nicks on axle key slot or driver splines; fix or replace

            Kinked chain; fix or replace

            Less likely;
            Weak clutch spring; replace
            or
            Aftermarket indicators can have significant variations in length so check yours against a few others.   Or, you can check the length against the dimensions shown on the last two pages of http://www.hadland.me.uk/2tables.pdf

            Mark Stonich;
              BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                     Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdesign.com
                                 http://mnhpva.org

          • Electrify Me
            Rich,        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue that the Sun rim s size is slightly big & its hard to
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
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              Rich,
                     Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
              that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
              any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                       Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it 
              allows oil to run away from hub's right side. Lucas oil additive sticks to car gears instead of
              running off. Oil is really designed for 200 deg engine temperatures which thins it somewhat and it runs more (even with multi-viscosity). Thicker Lucas oil might not run past bearings.
                      
              Warren
              --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:

              From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 7:08 PM

               
              Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim, generally not as strong as double wall construction.

              http://sheldonbrown .com/harris/ rims/590. html

              Rich Wood

              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich" <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.
              >
              > No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.
              >
              > Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.
              >
              > If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.
              >
              > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
              > >
              > > Rich Wood
              > >
              > >
              > > Hello IGH Group,
              > >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions... .........
              > >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
              > >  
              > > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
              > > I am not changing my rim size.
              > >  
              > > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
              > > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
              > >  
              > >  
              > >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
              > > lightweight aluminum rim.
              > >  
              > >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
              > >  
              > > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
              > >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
              > >    
              > > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
              > >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
              > >  
              > >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
              > > http://cgi.ebay. com.my/ws/ eBayISAPI. dll?ViewItem& item=29032893141 1
              > >  
              > >  
              > >  
              > > I also found
              > > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
              > >  
              > >  
              > > Regards,
              > > Warren
              > >
              >


            • Mark Stonich
              ... In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC. Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn t know the proper way to
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                Rich,
                       Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?

                In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.

                 Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim.

                I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 

                         Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                allows oil to run away from hub's right side.

                You are overfilling it.   A lot!

                Mark Stonich;
                  BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                    5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                         Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdesign.com
                                     http://mnhpva.org

              • Rich
                No experience with it but too thick an oil can supposedly cause problems with the pawls hanging up on the SA hubs, particularly if the springs get weak.
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  No experience with it but too thick an oil can supposedly cause problems with the pawls hanging up on the SA hubs, particularly if the springs get weak. People have reportedly put 40,000+ miles on one w/o problems using the SA recommended oil which is good enough for me.

                  The documentation with my S5-2 says SA oil or 30 weight oil. Remember that in an auto engine the temperatures are much hotter than the internals of a gear hub will ever see. Also automotive oils are designed to handle blowby of combustion products past the piston rings. IMO IGH service is much easier on a lubricant.

                  Rich Wood


                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Rich,
                  >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                  > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                  > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                  >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it 
                  > allows oil to run away from hub's right side. Lucas oil additive sticks to car gears instead of
                  > running off. Oil is really designed for 200 deg engine temperatures which thins it somewhat and it runs more (even with multi-viscosity). Thicker Lucas oil might not run past bearings.
                  >         
                  > Warren
                  > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
                  > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                  > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 7:08 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim, generally not as strong as double wall construction.
                  >
                  > http://sheldonbrown .com/harris/ rims/590. html
                  >
                  > Rich Wood
                  >
                  > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich" <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.
                  > >
                  > > No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.
                  > >
                  > > Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.
                  > >
                  > > If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.
                  > >
                  > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
                  > > >
                  > > > Rich Wood
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello IGH Group,
                  > > >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions... ..........
                  > > >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry.. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
                  > > >  
                  > > > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
                  > > > I am not changing my rim size.
                  > > >  
                  > > > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
                  > > > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
                  > > >  
                  > > >  
                  > > >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
                  > > > lightweight aluminum rim.
                  > > >  
                  > > >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
                  > > >  
                  > > > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
                  > > >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
                  > > >    
                  > > > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
                  > > >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
                  > > >  
                  > > >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
                  > > > http://cgi.ebay. com.my/ws/ eBayISAPI. dll?ViewItem& item=29032893141 1
                  > > >  
                  > > >  
                  > > >  
                  > > > I also found
                  > > > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
                  > > >  
                  > > >  
                  > > > Regards,
                  > > > Warren
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Electrify Me
                  So SA does not use grease at all in their IGH s? ... From: Rich Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
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                    So SA does not use grease at all in their IGH's?

                    --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:

                    From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
                    Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                    To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 10:40 PM

                     
                    No experience with it but too thick an oil can supposedly cause problems with the pawls hanging up on the SA hubs, particularly if the springs get weak. People have reportedly put 40,000+ miles on one w/o problems using the SA recommended oil which is good enough for me.

                    The documentation with my S5-2 says SA oil or 30 weight oil. Remember that in an auto engine the temperatures are much hotter than the internals of a gear hub will ever see. Also automotive oils are designed to handle blowby of combustion products past the piston rings. IMO IGH service is much easier on a lubricant..

                    Rich Wood

                    --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Rich,
                    >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                    > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                    > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                    >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it 
                    > allows oil to run away from hub's right side. Lucas oil additive sticks to car gears instead of
                    > running off. Oil is really designed for 200 deg engine temperatures which thins it somewhat and it runs more (even with multi-viscosity) . Thicker Lucas oil might not run past bearings.
                    >         
                    > Warren
                    > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Rich <astronut1001@ ...>
                    > Subject: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                    > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 7:08 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim, generally not as strong as double wall construction.
                    >
                    > http://sheldonbrown .com/harris/ rims/590.. html
                    >
                    > Rich Wood
                    >
                    > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich" <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.
                    > >
                    > > No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.
                    > >
                    > > Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.
                    > >
                    > > If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.
                    > >
                    > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
                    > > >
                    > > > Rich Wood
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello IGH Group,
                    > > >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions... ..........
                    > > >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry.. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
                    > > >  
                    > > > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
                    > > > I am not changing my rim size.
                    > > >  
                    > > > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
                    > > > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
                    > > >  
                    > > >  
                    > > >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
                    > > > lightweight aluminum rim.
                    > > >  
                    > > >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
                    > > >  
                    > > > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
                    > > >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
                    > > >    
                    > > > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
                    > > >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
                    > > >  
                    > > >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
                    > > > http://cgi.ebay. com.my/ws/ eBayISAPI. dll?ViewItem& item=29032893141 1
                    > > >  
                    > > >  
                    > > >  
                    > > > I also found
                    > > > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
                    > > >  
                    > > >  
                    > > > Regards,
                    > > > Warren
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >


                  • prester_john_in_cathay
                    In my personal experience: non-issue. PJ
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In my personal experience: non-issue.

                      PJ
                    • Rich
                      Older SA IGH units used oil for the main mechanism and had an oil port on the hub body. When reassembling grease was used in the ball bearings only. Some SA
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Older SA IGH units used oil for the main mechanism and had an oil port on the hub body. When reassembling grease was used in the ball bearings only. Some SA documentation I have read says use standard lithium grease in the bearings. My S5-2 is old enough so that it has an oil port.

                        Current SA hubs are all greased using a very thin bodied grease, SAE 00. This is the same grade as used in some lawnmower gear cases and large truck trailer applications I understand. Use of a thick grease can cause problems with IGH internals I have read.

                        The only two current production hubs that do not use grease from the factory for internal mechanism lubrication are the NuVinci and Rohloff. Both are fully sealed oil bath lubricated units, the best design from a lubrication standpoint I believe.

                        In my opinion oiled lubrication is better from the standpoint of reduced friction and getting any contamination out of the hub. One reason that Rohloff recommends an oil change annually or every 5000 Km is to get wear particles and possible condensation out. I believe greased lubrication was adopted by Shimano, SA & SRAM to reduce complaints from users who neglected maintenance or used gumming oils such as 3 in 1. An attempt at idiot proofing.

                        Rich Wood

                        --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > So SA does not use grease at all in their IGH's?
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
                        > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                        > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 10:40 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No experience with it but too thick an oil can supposedly cause problems with the pawls hanging up on the SA hubs, particularly if the springs get weak. People have reportedly put 40,000+ miles on one w/o problems using the SA recommended oil which is good enough for me.
                        >
                        > The documentation with my S5-2 says SA oil or 30 weight oil. Remember that in an auto engine the temperatures are much hotter than the internals of a gear hub will ever see. Also automotive oils are designed to handle blowby of combustion products past the piston rings. IMO IGH service is much easier on a lubricant.
                        >
                        > Rich Wood
                        >
                        > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ....> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Rich,
                        > >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                        > > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                        > > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                        > >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it 
                        > > allows oil to run away from hub's right side. Lucas oil additive sticks to car gears instead of
                        > > running off. Oil is really designed for 200 deg engine temperatures which thins it somewhat and it runs more (even with multi-viscosity) . Thicker Lucas oil might not run past bearings.
                        > >         
                        > > Warren
                        > > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Rich <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Rich <astronut1001@ ...>
                        > > Subject: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs.. grease hub lube
                        > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 7:08 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >  
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Here is a link to the rims you probably need at Harris Cyclery. The Sun CR-18 is supposed to be a pretty good rim. The Weinmann is a single wall rim, generally not as strong as double wall construction.
                        > >
                        > > http://sheldonbrown .com/harris/ rims/590. html
                        > >
                        > > Rich Wood
                        > >
                        > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, "Rich" <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Check Harris Cyclery as they have some obsolete size rims listed for 3 speed bikes IIRC.
                        > > >
                        > > > No reason I can see to use newer hubs if the old ones still work other than to eliminate the potential false neutral between second and third that the old AW had. On a 34 pound bike I would not worry about additional hub weight much.
                        > > >
                        > > > Should be possible to use oil so far as I know. Without an oiling port on the hub shell you will need to add oil through the indicator chain axle hole occasionally. IIRC SA recommended adding oil every couple of weeks. No seals on the SA hubs so overoiling make a mess as the oil leaks out pst the wheel bearings. Not familiar with the Lucas oil so no idea if it would eliminate oiling more frequently.
                        > > >
                        > > > If you have a drill press and taps it might be possible to add an oiler to the hub shell before building up wheels.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Per emailed request I have tried to change the 137 lgs to lbs in the below post. Hope it took.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Rich Wood
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hello IGH Group,
                        > > > >        Long winded, but hey......I have lotsa questions.... ..........
                        > > > >        I grew up & have a Shimano 3.3.3 Hub F (Patent 3021728) and never had issues. I never weighed over 137lbs. Never had a problem standing on pedals to go up a hill. I am looking at new & old freewheel hubs vs their weight. I thought to buy buy a new aluminum 3spd or 5spd SA or Shimano hub but found old one's whose weight seem less than today's aluminum ones. I presently run a 26" 1 3/8" tire with a 52 tooth front sprocket and a 16 tooth rear sprocket. 170mm one piece crank and steel rims. I typically run 2nd gear unless I am really in a hurry.. Bike weighs 34 lbs. Why would I pursue buying a new 3 spd hub if these work out?
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > Is there a strong-lightweight, reliable inexpensive 36 spoke rim to buy (with rim brakes)? 
                        > > > > I am not changing my rim size.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > Could I strip the grease and use a Lucas oil in my hubs?
                        > > > > It does not run-off gears and is much thinner than grease. A synthetic Lucas exists too. 
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >       I bought (2) used freeweeling 3 speed hubs (about 159mm axel?) to put each in a
                        > > > > lightweight aluminum rim.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >       Weighed with a Berkley 50lb digital fish scale from Wal Mart with a min .01kg weight.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > IGH #1   Sturmy Archer - AW England, steel shell (no discernable date on outside)
                        > > > >                Externally excellent condition    weighs 1050 grams       
                        > > > >    
                        > > > > IGH #2    SEARS - Hub Model 503.21 made in Austria 1965 steel shell in excellent
                        > > > >                              external condition.     weighs 1000 grams
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >   This Ebay picture matches the one I have:
                        > > > > http://cgi.ebay. com.my/ws/ eBayISAPI. dll?ViewItem& item=29032893141 1
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > I also found
                        > > > > RE:MISC:   sears 3 speed hub posted by Joe on 11/27/2003 at 6:09:55 AM
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > These hubs were pretty common, they were made in Austria under license by Sturmey Archer. They use Sturmey Archer internals with the exception of the left bearing race, (different threading). Value would depend on someone needing that year hub and it's condition. I use most of these for parts since I have never had the need for a Sears branded hub. The left bearing race is the same as a Schwinn Approved model as well. Some models were also stamped "J.C. Higgins". These use a standard Sturmey Archer shifter.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > Regards,
                        > > > > Warren
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Electrify Me
                        Mark,     Thank you for the rim ideas,         By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the numbers 74 and 2
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mark,
                              Thank you for the rim ideas,
                            
                               By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the
                          numbers 74 and 2 ; thus, I figure it was built in Feb 1974. I hope this was a good year for
                          SA?
                           
                           
                          To whomever may know, why is my 1965 Sears hub lighter than the SA if it  copies the
                          SA w/some minor changes?
                           
                           
                          Who made the SEARS hub and why in Austria?
                           
                          Was the quality better in Austria?
                           
                           
                          Regards,
                          Warren


                          --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:

                          From: Mark Stonich <mark@...>
                          Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                          To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 9:44 PM

                           
                          At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                          Rich,
                                 Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                          that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                          any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?

                          In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.

                           Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim.

                          I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 

                                   Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                          allows oil to run away from hub's right side.

                          You are overfilling it.   A lot!

                          Mark Stonich;
                            BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                              5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                                   Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdes ign.com
                                               http://mnhpva. org

                        • Rich
                          Warren; Many if not all of the Sears hubs were made by Steyr Daimler Puch of Austria I have read. Never opened one but I have seen posts that they had more
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Warren;

                            Many if not all of the Sears hubs were made by Steyr Daimler Puch of Austria I have read. Never opened one but I have seen posts that they had more smoothly made parts internally.

                            A lot of Sears bicycles were made by the Puch division so probably using the in house made hub lowered the price for Sears. Puch was also a motorcycle maker and sears Sold their motorcycles too under the Sears name. Many Puch motorcycles used a unique 2 stroke engine design.

                            As for weight, could be that the shell is a bit thinner or different manufacturing processes used for the internals. Many SA parts were made using powdered metal technology to form them, starting when I am not sure. If the Sears hubs used machined parts then that could possibly account for the weight difference.

                            Per references I have seen the AW hub, or clones, was made by Sturmey Archer, Suntour, Steyr Daimler Puch, Brampton, Hercules, and Nankai (NK). Some were unlicensed copies made after all SA patents on the AW had expired apparently.

                            Rich Wood


                            --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Mark,
                            >     Thank you for the rim ideas,
                            >   
                            >      By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the
                            > numbers 74 and 2 ; thus, I figure it was built in Feb 1974. I hope this was a good year for
                            > SA?
                            >  
                            >  
                            > To whomever may know, why is my 1965 Sears hub lighter than the SA if it  copies the
                            > SA w/some minor changes?
                            >  
                            >  
                            > Who made the SEARS hub and why in Austria?
                            >  
                            > Was the quality better in Austria?
                            >  
                            >  
                            > Regards,
                            > Warren
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Mark Stonich <mark@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                            > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 9:44 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                            >
                            > Rich,
                            >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                            > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                            > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                            > In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.
                            >
                            >  Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim.
                            >
                            > I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 
                            >
                            >
                            >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                            > allows oil to run away from hub's right side.
                            > You are overfilling it.   A lot!
                            >
                            >
                            > Mark Stonich;
                            >   BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                            >     5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                            >          Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdes ign.com
                            >                      http://mnhpva. org
                            >
                          • Electrify Me
                            Oh, Thanks for the explanation, I never heard of a SEARS bike.   ... From: Rich Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Oh, Thanks for the explanation, I never heard of a SEARS bike.
                               


                              --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:

                              From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
                              Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                              To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:34 AM

                               
                              Warren;

                              Many if not all of the Sears hubs were made by Steyr Daimler Puch of Austria I have read. Never opened one but I have seen posts that they had more smoothly made parts internally.

                              A lot of Sears bicycles were made by the Puch division so probably using the in house made hub lowered the price for Sears. Puch was also a motorcycle maker and sears Sold their motorcycles too under the Sears name. Many Puch motorcycles used a unique 2 stroke engine design.

                              As for weight, could be that the shell is a bit thinner or different manufacturing processes used for the internals. Many SA parts were made using powdered metal technology to form them, starting when I am not sure. If the Sears hubs used machined parts then that could possibly account for the weight difference.

                              Per references I have seen the AW hub, or clones, was made by Sturmey Archer, Suntour, Steyr Daimler Puch, Brampton, Hercules, and Nankai (NK). Some were unlicensed copies made after all SA patents on the AW had expired apparently.

                              Rich Wood

                              --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Mark,
                              >     Thank you for the rim ideas,
                              >   
                              >      By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the
                              > numbers 74 and 2 ; thus, I figure it was built in Feb 1974. I hope this was a good year for
                              > SA?
                              >  
                              >  
                              > To whomever may know, why is my 1965 Sears hub lighter than the SA if it  copies the
                              > SA w/some minor changes?
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Who made the SEARS hub and why in Austria?
                              >  
                              > Was the quality better in Austria?
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Regards,
                              > Warren
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mark Stonich <mark@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: Mark Stonich <mark@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                              > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                              > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 9:44 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                              >
                              > Rich,
                              >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                              > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                              > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                              > In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.
                              >
                              >  Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim..
                              >
                              > I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 
                              >
                              >
                              >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                              > allows oil to run away from hub's right side.
                              > You are overfilling it.   A lot!
                              >
                              >
                              > Mark Stonich;
                              >   BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                              >     5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                              >          Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdes ign.com
                              >                      http://mnhpva. org
                              >


                            • Rich
                              Warren; Maybe I should have said Sears sold bikes. They had several brand names they used over the years IIRC. Some Sears names used were apparently Free
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Warren;

                                Maybe I should have said Sears sold bikes. They had several brand names they used over the years IIRC. Some Sears names used were apparently Free Spirit, Ted Williams and Fleetwood. Probably others too.

                                Rich Wood


                                --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Oh, Thanks for the explanation, I never heard of a SEARS bike.
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Rich <astronut1001@...>
                                > Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                                > To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:34 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Warren;
                                >
                                > Many if not all of the Sears hubs were made by Steyr Daimler Puch of Austria I have read. Never opened one but I have seen posts that they had more smoothly made parts internally.
                                >
                                > A lot of Sears bicycles were made by the Puch division so probably using the in house made hub lowered the price for Sears. Puch was also a motorcycle maker and sears Sold their motorcycles too under the Sears name. Many Puch motorcycles used a unique 2 stroke engine design.
                                >
                                > As for weight, could be that the shell is a bit thinner or different manufacturing processes used for the internals. Many SA parts were made using powdered metal technology to form them, starting when I am not sure. If the Sears hubs used machined parts then that could possibly account for the weight difference.
                                >
                                > Per references I have seen the AW hub, or clones, was made by Sturmey Archer, Suntour, Steyr Daimler Puch, Brampton, Hercules, and Nankai (NK). Some were unlicensed copies made after all SA patents on the AW had expired apparently.
                                >
                                > Rich Wood
                                >
                                > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ....> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Mark,
                                > >     Thank you for the rim ideas,
                                > >   
                                > >      By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the
                                > > numbers 74 and 2 ; thus, I figure it was built in Feb 1974. I hope this was a good year for
                                > > SA?
                                > >  
                                > >  
                                > > To whomever may know, why is my 1965 Sears hub lighter than the SA if it  copies the
                                > > SA w/some minor changes?
                                > >  
                                > >  
                                > > Who made the SEARS hub and why in Austria?
                                > >  
                                > > Was the quality better in Austria?
                                > >  
                                > >  
                                > > Regards,
                                > > Warren
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mark Stonich <mark@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > From: Mark Stonich <mark@>
                                > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                                > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 9:44 PM
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >  
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Rich,
                                > >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                                > > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                                > > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                                > > In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.
                                > >
                                > >  Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim.
                                > >
                                > > I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                                > > allows oil to run away from hub's right side.
                                > > You are overfilling it.   A lot!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Mark Stonich;
                                > >   BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                                > >     5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                                > >          Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdes ign.com
                                > >                      http://mnhpva. org
                                > >
                                >
                              • arthurok
                                allot of them had made in austria lables ... From: Rich To: Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:40 AM Subject:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  allot  of them  had  made  in  austria  lables 
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Rich
                                  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:40 AM
                                  Subject: [Geared_hub_bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube

                                   

                                  Warren;

                                  Maybe I should have said Sears sold bikes. They had several brand names they used over the years IIRC. Some Sears names used were apparently Free Spirit, Ted Williams and Fleetwood. Probably others too.

                                  Rich Wood

                                  --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Oh, Thanks for the explanation, I never heard of a SEARS bike.
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Rich <astronut1001@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Rich <astronut1001@ ...>
                                  > Subject: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                                  > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:34 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Warren;
                                  >
                                  > Many if not all of the Sears hubs were made by Steyr Daimler Puch of Austria I have read. Never opened one but I have seen posts that they had more smoothly made parts internally.
                                  >
                                  > A lot of Sears bicycles were made by the Puch division so probably using the in house made hub lowered the price for Sears. Puch was also a motorcycle maker and sears Sold their motorcycles too under the Sears name. Many Puch motorcycles used a unique 2 stroke engine design.
                                  >
                                  > As for weight, could be that the shell is a bit thinner or different manufacturing processes used for the internals. Many SA parts were made using powdered metal technology to form them, starting when I am not sure. If the Sears hubs used machined parts then that could possibly account for the weight difference.
                                  >
                                  > Per references I have seen the AW hub, or clones, was made by Sturmey Archer, Suntour, Steyr Daimler Puch, Brampton, Hercules, and Nankai (NK). Some were unlicensed copies made after all SA patents on the AW had expired apparently.
                                  >
                                  > Rich Wood
                                  >
                                  > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com, Electrify Me <electrifyme321@ ....> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Mark,
                                  > >     Thank you for the rim ideas,
                                  > >   
                                  > >      By checking  Ebay I found another location on the SA AW hub to look at and found the
                                  > > numbers 74 and 2 ; thus, I figure it was built in Feb 1974. I hope this was a good year for
                                  > > SA?
                                  > >  
                                  > >  
                                  > > To whomever may know, why is my 1965 Sears hub lighter than the SA if it  copies the
                                  > > SA w/some minor changes?
                                  > >  
                                  > >  
                                  > > Who made the SEARS hub and why in Austria?
                                  > >  
                                  > > Was the quality better in Austria?
                                  > >  
                                  > >  
                                  > > Regards,
                                  > > Warren
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mark Stonich <mark@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Mark Stonich <mark@>
                                  > > Subject: Re: [Geared_hub_ bikes] Re: new weight/efficiency vs. old and oil vs. grease hub lube
                                  > > To: Geared_hub_bikes@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 9:44 PM
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > At  10/10/2009 02:23 PM -0700, Electrify Me wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Rich,
                                  > >        Thanks for comparison of double/single wall rim construction. I read a minor issue
                                  > > that the Sun rim's size is slightly big & its hard to get 26 x 1 3/8" tires on it. Are there
                                  > > any other ideas out there of lightweight rims to use for 26 x 1 3/8"?
                                  > > In general this is not the case, but a few big ones do slip through QC.    Someone who is used to single wall rims, who doesn't know the proper way to install and remove tires might think CR-18s run large.
                                  > >
                                  > >  Always start removing the tire at the valve.  Always finish installing at the valve.  Push the beat into the center of the rim.
                                  > >
                                  > > I've built up dozens of Sun rims and have had 2, (18 years ago, from the same batch), that were oversized.   Thought I'd gotten another a couple of years ago but the tire was under sized. 
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >          Both my hubs have oil ports. I take the kickstand off for long rides but when on, it
                                  > > allows oil to run away from hub's right side.
                                  > > You are overfilling it.   A lot!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Mark Stonich;
                                  > >   BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
                                  > >     5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55417 USA
                                  > >          Ph. (612) 824-2372  http://bikesmithdes ign.com
                                  > >                      http://mnhpva. org
                                  > >
                                  >

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