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Re: [Gauge0] Elections to the Board

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  • Ian Kirk
    Hi Ken, I would have said that it was all good news. If you remember in my original posting I suggested asking the Board to avoid controvertial candidates OR
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 3, 2005
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      Hi Ken,

      I would have said that it was all good news. If you remember in my original
      posting I suggested asking the Board to avoid "controvertial" candidates OR
      to allow an alternative candidate. Since this has been allowed I have in
      effect what I asked for. Moreover it breaks the ice for multiple candidates
      and may lead to the more democratic way of choosing Board members that
      people have been asking for.

      I would imagine that the next move should be M&GP committee members
      canvasing support for their preferred candidate which will start the
      discussion that Bruce Wilson asked for in a later posting.

      best wishes,

      Ian

      >
      >
    • Paul Rowlinson
      Hi all Just received the August gazette and AGM papers. I see that despite an earlier promise no accounts for the French jaunt were included or have I missed
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 8, 2005
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        Hi all

        Just received the August gazette and AGM papers. I see that despite an
        earlier promise no accounts for the French jaunt were included or have I
        missed them?

        I presume they are to be presented at the AGM. I regret I cannot be there to
        ask relevant questions but Ian, I should like to nominate you as my proxy
        vote.

        I also see from the accounts that directors expense, travel and subsistance
        have fallen from �53,000 to �49,000 approx. This is still around 25% of the
        membership income and outrageous for an organisation like GOG. Given the
        level of expenditure and at the risk o reopening a debate, we need to have
        these published.

        regards to all


        Paul Rowlinson
        7313

        >From: "Ian Kirk" <iankirk@...>
        >Reply-To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: Re: [Gauge0] Elections to the Board
        >Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 22:44:39 +0100
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John y Christine Smith
        Hi Paul et al, Since you have just received your Gazette Paul, then, I will probably get mine sometime next week (I live in Spain). Fortunately, I will be
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 8, 2005
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          Hi Paul et al,

          Since you have just received your Gazette Paul, then, I will probably get mine sometime next week (I live in Spain). Fortunately, I will be attending Telford so will be able to vote in person this year. However, the publication date of the Gazette, and AGM info, does leave precious little time for overseas members to register their proxy.

          Hear, hear to your comments on director's expenses, on the face of it an outrageous amount.

          Details MUST be published.

          John A Smith (11655) (Spain)


          Paul Rowlinson <rowlinsonpj@...> wrote:
          Hi all

          Just received the August gazette and AGM papers. I see that despite an
          earlier promise no accounts for the French jaunt were included or have I
          missed them?

          I presume they are to be presented at the AGM. I regret I cannot be there to
          ask relevant questions but Ian, I should like to nominate you as my proxy
          vote.

          I also see from the accounts that directors expense, travel and subsistance
          have fallen from £53,000 to £49,000 approx. This is still around 25% of the
          membership income and outrageous for an organisation like GOG. Given the
          level of expenditure and at the risk o reopening a debate, we need to have
          these published.

          regards to all


          Paul Rowlinson
          7313

          >From: "Ian Kirk"
          >Reply-To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
          >To:
          >Subject: Re: [Gauge0] Elections to the Board
          >Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 22:44:39 +0100
          >



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        • Bruce Wilson
          ... snipped......... Is there a proxy form that can be scanned and posted to the Files Section of this group?. That would give us overseas members some more
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 8, 2005
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            At 20:29 8/8/05 +0100, you wrote:
            >Hi Paul et al,
            >
            >Since you have just received your Gazette Paul, then, I will probably get
            >mine sometime next week (I live in Spain). Fortunately, I will be
            >attending Telford so will be able to vote in person this year. However,
            >the publication date of the Gazette, and AGM info, does leave precious
            >little time for overseas members to register their proxy.

            snipped.........

            Is there a proxy form that can be scanned and posted to the Files Section
            of this group?. That would give us overseas members some more time. Or
            does the Guild only accept the forms they mail out?

            Bruce Wilson reply to:
            Barrie, Ontario, Canada no_spam_wilsonbrucea@no_spam_rogers.com
            http://ca.geocities.com/wilsonbrucea@.../
          • Tony Spencer
            I also see from the accounts that directors expense, travel and subsistance have fallen from £53,000 to £49,000 approx. This is still around 25% of the
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 8, 2005
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              "I also see from the accounts that directors expense, travel and subsistance

              have fallen from £53,000 to £49,000 approx. This is still around 25% of the
              membership income and outrageous for an organisation like GOG. Given the
              level of expenditure and at the risk o reopening a debate, we need to have
              these published."


              At the risk of putting myself out on a limb, I believe the "Analysis of
              Guild expenses" goes a long way to dispelling the notion that a few persons
              are lining their pocket at member's expense. In the current breakdown there
              is a figure of £17,620 for events accommodation.

              As previously related, I have had only two experiences of actual involvement
              at an event, assisting Geoff Grandfield (now deceased) with E & T stand at
              Telford & Halifax, now some years ago.

              We drove for just under 900 miles. We stayed two nights (shared room) and
              had bed and breakfast only paid for us. The total cost to the Guild was
              probably in the region of two hundred pounds. Most of the time was taken up
              receiving and accounting for money. (Late into the night!!)

              How many other people were involved in similar "Work Mode" I have no idea.
              but the event didn't run itself. So if you take just say 60 staffing members
              at each event in total, you get a figure of less than three hundred pounds
              for full years events.

              Probably too simplistic, but it isn’t funding anybody's pension.

              The reason we pay our subscription is to fund these events and receive the
              Gazette.

              Isn't this what we have the Guild for?

              Tony Spencer 9109
            • Ian Kirk
              Hi Bruce, It seems that current policy is that Guild officials do not answer on this group. Preferring the Guild Forum. I have asked your question on this and
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 9, 2005
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                Hi Bruce,

                It seems that current policy is that Guild officials do not answer on this
                group. Preferring the Guild Forum.

                I have asked your question on this and will forward any reply I get.

                Best wishes,

                Ian
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bruce Wilson" <wilsonbrucea@...>
                To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 8:38 PM
                Subject: Re: [Gauge0] Elections to the Board


                > At 20:29 8/8/05 +0100, you wrote:
                >>Hi Paul et al,
                >>
                >>Since you have just received your Gazette Paul, then, I will probably get
                >>mine sometime next week (I live in Spain). Fortunately, I will be
                >>attending Telford so will be able to vote in person this year. However,
                >>the publication date of the Gazette, and AGM info, does leave precious
                >>little time for overseas members to register their proxy.
                >
                > snipped.........
                >
                > Is there a proxy form that can be scanned and posted to the Files Section
                > of this group?. That would give us overseas members some more time. Or
                > does the Guild only accept the forms they mail out?
                >
                > Bruce Wilson reply to:
                > Barrie, Ontario, Canada no_spam_wilsonbrucea@no_spam_rogers.com
                > http://ca.geocities.com/wilsonbrucea@.../
                >
                >
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                > You received this message via the Gauge0 email group.
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              • Bruce Wilson
                ... Thanks Ian. I guess I should have thought of that myself. I have looked at the forum on a couple of occasions but find it cumbersome. And having to sign
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 9, 2005
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                  At 13:34 8/9/05 +0100, you wrote:
                  >Hi Bruce,
                  >
                  >It seems that current policy is that Guild officials do not answer on this
                  >group. Preferring the Guild Forum.
                  >
                  >I have asked your question on this and will forward any reply I get.
                  >
                  >Best wishes,
                  >
                  >Ian
                  Thanks Ian. I guess I should have thought of that myself. I have looked
                  at the forum on a couple of occasions but find it cumbersome. And having
                  to sign in again to post makes no sense at all.

                  Bruce Wilson reply to:
                  Barrie, Ontario, Canada no_spam_wilsonbrucea@no_spam_rogers.com
                  http://ca.geocities.com/wilsonbrucea@.../
                • Mark Sanders
                  Hi Tony This still leaves £32,000 worth of expenses to be accounted for. Given that the turnover of the guild is somewhat less than a corner shop, this is
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 9, 2005
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                    Hi Tony

                    This still leaves £32,000 worth of expenses to be accounted for.
                    Given that the turnover of the guild is somewhat less than a corner shop,
                    this is either an amazing or absurd amount of money depending on your point
                    of view.

                    Having served on the events committee I can't remember an event with
                    60 staff a level of 20 - 25 was the norm. The E & T stand is a member
                    service and should be self financing and not costed as part of events
                    expenses. The board on the other hand accompanied by spouses and hangers on
                    were also accommodated at the expense of the event, the excuse being that
                    the odd half hour on the door was enough to warrant this. I do however
                    remember a large, nearly £900, drinks bill being presented by the board
                    being rejected.

                    If you want to know the number of staff for an event just count
                    those still at work about an hour after the show has closed. No prises for
                    guessing how many of the board will be present.

                    Regards Mark Sanders (Ex 14226)


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Tony Spencer" <janantone@...>
                    To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:25 AM
                    Subject: [Gauge0] Guild expenses


                    "I also see from the accounts that directors expense, travel and subsistance
                    have fallen from £53,000 to £49,000 approx. This is still around 25% of the
                    membership income and outrageous for an organisation like GOG. Given the
                    level of expenditure and at the risk o reopening a debate, we need to have
                    these published."


                    In the current breakdown there is a figure of £17,620 for events
                    accommodation.

                    As previously related, I have had only two experiences of actual involvement
                    at an event, assisting Geoff Grandfield (now deceased) with E & T stand at
                    Telford & Halifax, now some years ago.

                    We drove for just under 900 miles. We stayed two nights (shared room) and
                    had bed and breakfast only paid for us. The total cost to the Guild was
                    probably in the region of two hundred pounds. Most of the time was taken up
                    receiving and accounting for money. (Late into the night!!)

                    How many other people were involved in similar "Work Mode" I have no idea.
                    but the event didn't run itself. So if you take just say 60 staffing members
                    at each event in total, you get a figure of less than three hundred pounds
                    for full years events.

                    Probably too simplistic, but it isn't funding anybody's pension.

                    The reason we pay our subscription is to fund these events and receive the
                    Gazette.

                    Isn't this what we have the Guild for?

                    Tony Spencer 9109





                    You received this message via the Gauge0 email group.


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                  • Paul Rowlinson
                    Tony That being the case then there is nothing to hide by publication. I also agree with you when you say isn t that what subscriptions are for. Quite right
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 10, 2005
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                      Tony

                      That being the case then there is nothing to hide by publication.

                      I also agree with you when you say "isn't that what subscriptions are for."
                      Quite right but then surely those who are put in trusted positions to
                      administer Guild funds are also responsible and accountable to them for
                      their use.

                      I would also ask again - where are the promised accounts of the Frenh jaunt.
                      There are many rumours surrounding this event many of which may be untrue.
                      However, if things are to be set straight then publciation would be the
                      right way forward.

                      Paul Rowlinson

                      >From: "Tony Spencer" <janantone@...>
                      >Reply-To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: [Gauge0] Guild expenses
                      >Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:25:29 +0100
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dave.Eccles@tesco.net
                      ... I m no accountant but I think the costs for the Nancy trip are mentioned on P18 (Sundry notes)under para 5 Advertising & Promotion @ £5367 As the full A&P
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 10, 2005
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                        > Paul,
                        I'm no accountant but I think the costs for the Nancy trip are mentioned on P18 (Sundry notes)under para 5 Advertising & Promotion @ £5367
                        As the full A&P expenditure mentioned in the Analysis of accounts on P16 comes to just under £12000 this would appear to have accounted for about 45%.
                        If this is the sum involved then questions must be asked.(how many attendees and for how long to start with)
                        My international airline employer would expect me to put up expenses not above £200 a night including accomodation and food and sundry expenses (a few beers)- this figure applies to all management level staff, directors included
                        My wife is more than welcome to come along on any of these trips (mostly in Europe) but I pick up the costs.
                        I have no problem with the board/committee doing their Guild business at my expense but there has to be a reasonable level set for the costs of these types of trips.
                        I can't attend Guildex this year due to being away on business but I would have liked to have seen this brought up at the AGM

                        Regards
                        Dave
                        > From: "Paul Rowlinson" <rowlinsonpj@...>
                        > Date: 2005/08/10 Wed AM 07:30:35 GMT
                        > To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [Gauge0] Guild expenses
                        >
                        > Tony
                        >
                        > That being the case then there is nothing to hide by publication.
                        >
                        > I also agree with you when you say "isn't that what subscriptions are for."
                        > Quite right but then surely those who are put in trusted positions to
                        > administer Guild funds are also responsible and accountable to them for
                        > their use.
                        >
                        > I would also ask again - where are the promised accounts of the Frenh jaunt.
                        > There are many rumours surrounding this event many of which may be untrue.
                        > However, if things are to be set straight then publciation would be the
                        > right way forward.
                        >
                        > Paul Rowlinson
                        >
                        > >From: "Tony Spencer" <janantone@...>
                        > >Reply-To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Subject: [Gauge0] Guild expenses
                        > >Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:25:29 +0100
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        > You received this message via the Gauge0 email group.
                        >
                        >
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                      • Pearman Books
                        The Accounts state there is a loss on the French trip even with £4k to come back. Strange to see E&T make a loss considering they only sell on commission, as
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 10, 2005
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                          The Accounts state there is a loss on the French trip even with £4k to come
                          back.
                          Strange to see E&T make a loss considering they only sell on commission, as
                          the loss has been brought into the Accounts and that figure is made up of
                          purchases and sales presumably the Vatman was interested in his share of the
                          margin figure?
                          Nice to see a list of the expenses broken down by Committee, now all it
                          needs is a similar list with some names listed.
                          2682:215072 Hmmm!
                          Thanks to all those who have sent me copies of the Accounts by various
                          means, first arrived on day of receipt by sender.

                          Bob Pearman
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Paul Rowlinson" <rowlinsonpj@...>
                          To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Gauge0] Guild expenses


                          > Tony
                          >
                          > That being the case then there is nothing to hide by publication.
                          >
                          > I also agree with you when you say "isn't that what subscriptions are
                          for."
                          > Quite right but then surely those who are put in trusted positions to
                          > administer Guild funds are also responsible and accountable to them for
                          > their use.
                          >
                          > I would also ask again - where are the promised accounts of the Frenh
                          jaunt.
                          > There are many rumours surrounding this event many of which may be untrue.
                          > However, if things are to be set straight then publciation would be the
                          > right way forward.
                          >
                          > Paul Rowlinson
                          >
                          > >From: "Tony Spencer" <janantone@...>
                          > >Reply-To: Gauge0@yahoogroups.com
                          > >To: <Gauge0@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Subject: [Gauge0] Guild expenses
                          > >Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:25:29 +0100
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > You received this message via the Gauge0 email group.
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                        • Ian Kirk
                          Hi Bruce, I was checking the Guild website this morning to see if there were any more messages on the Forum and see that there is a downloadable proxy form on
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 11, 2005
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                            Hi Bruce,

                            I was checking the Guild website this morning to see if there were any more
                            messages on the Forum and see that there is a downloadable proxy form on the
                            website. Not sure if it was there all along and I didn't see it or if it has
                            just gone on. I normally go straight to the Forum so could have missed it.

                            best wishes,

                            Ian
                          • Bruce Wilson
                            ... Ian: I see in the forum section that Raymond arranged with John Birch to have the proxy put on-line yesterday. Thanks to both of these gentlemen for
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 11, 2005
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                              At 09:17 8/11/05 +0100, you wrote:
                              >Hi Bruce,
                              >
                              >I was checking the Guild website this morning to see if there were any more
                              >messages on the Forum and see that there is a downloadable proxy form on the
                              >website. Not sure if it was there all along and I didn't see it or if it has
                              >just gone on. I normally go straight to the Forum so could have missed it.
                              >
                              >best wishes,
                              >
                              >Ian
                              Ian:

                              I see in the forum section that Raymond arranged with John Birch to have
                              the proxy put on-line yesterday. Thanks to both of these gentlemen for
                              helping out the overseas members. And thanks to you for reminding me about
                              the forum for posting questions and for posting the question there.

                              Bruce Wilson reply to:
                              Barrie, Ontario, Canada no_spam_wilsonbrucea@no_spam_rogers.com
                              http://ca.geocities.com/wilsonbrucea@.../
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