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RE: [Garmin_GPSmap_76C] City Navigator NA v7 observations

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  • David Levine
    I hope you are right Robert, otherwise there will be a lot of ticked off 60 (and possibly 76 though maybe less so) folks. I think Garmin should get MORE
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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      I hope you are right Robert, otherwise there will be a lot of ticked off 60
      (and possibly 76 though maybe less so) folks. I think Garmin should get MORE
      granular instead off LESS granular. Who cares if I need to select 100 map
      segments to load vs 3. Doesn't really take more time unless I want to spend
      the time picking and choosing.

      If it is the case, and I hope it isn't, I think I'll be extra glad I got the
      76 with added memory over the 60 series.

      Since CN is targeting recent devices with more memory, if that's accurate
      assumption on my part, I wonder how CS will be, knowing that units like the
      60 only have 56MB.

      David

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lipe
      Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:46 PM
      To: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Garmin_GPSmap_76C] City Navigator NA v7 observations

      On 7/31/05, annoyedone <annoyedone@...> wrote:
      > From the usenet group alt.satellite.gps
      >
      > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.satellite.gps/browse_frm/threa
      > d/04c126d02b5416d9/2ef25fea2de7c260?hl=en#2ef25fea2de7c260

      Oh, my.

      I just finished installing CN7. The size of the new regions is
      huge. For example, a 60 would no longer hold detailed maps from
      Nashville, TN to St. Louis, MO where before it was no problem.

      I really hope that CS allows painting with a smaller brush than CN
      does. This has been an area where I've always given the "thumbs up"
      to Garmin over Magellan - you can grab detailed maps along the interstates
      you know you're going to be on instead of in giant chunks, but that's no
      longer as true.
    • annoyedone
      ... I like the idea of map segments being on state boundaries though. With the current product you often have to select huge chunks you don t need or want. ...
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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        --- In Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com, "David Levine"
        <david_yahoo@l...> wrote:

        > I think Garmin should get MORE granular instead off LESS granular.

        I like the idea of map segments being on state boundaries though. With
        the current product you often have to select huge chunks you don't
        need or want.

        > Who cares if I need to select 100 map segments to load vs 3.

        FYI many units have a segment limit as well as a size limit. For the
        60C/76C models I think its 900 max which really isn't a practical issue.

        > Since CN is targeting recent devices with more memory...

        No doubt someone here will find out soon enough. My assumption would
        be that the segmentation is the same since I've heard CN and CS are
        essentially the same maps but with CN having more detailed autorouting
        instructions.
      • Robert Lipe
        ... Help me resolve those two sentences. It seems that moving them to state boundaries contributes to having to select huge chunks you don t need or want. ...
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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          > I like the idea of map segments being on state boundaries though. With
          > the current product you often have to select huge chunks you don't
          > need or want.

          Help me resolve those two sentences. It seems that moving them to
          state boundaries contributes to having to select huge chunks you don't
          need or want.

          > No doubt someone here will find out soon enough. My assumption would
          > be that the segmentation is the same since I've heard CN and CS are
          > essentially the same maps but with CN having more detailed autorouting

          If that's true, units like the V with a scant 19MB of memory that
          upgrade will suddenly find themselves with unhappy owners.

          Last night, I checked 'maps along a route' for a 2200 mile road trip.

          CN6: 119 maps totalling 192MB.
          CN7: 20 maps totalling 315MB.

          So with CN7, this trip no longer fits on a 256MB card.

          Since all the CN devices have at least 128MB map memory and those
          without hard drives are expandable (right?) perhaps they did decide to
          make them different in this regard. With the recent trend to units
          holding map data for an entire continent, perhaps different strategies
          are in order compared to the turn-of-the-century models like the V.

          If not, this is a competitive advantage over Magellan that they just lost.

          It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in CS. So far, I
          haven't heard of anyone receiving CS7 yet. (I wasn't planning to
          update my copy of CS as I'm not $75 worth of unhappy with the map
          data. Before I saw CN7, I'd considered burning my second unlock to
          use it on my 60CS, but I now consider that unviable.)
        • David Levine
          I m really interested to see. Can we tell from what they put online in the map viewer what the segment sizes are? And if so, do they update the map viewer
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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            I'm really interested to see. Can we tell from what they put online in
            the map viewer what the segment sizes are? And if so, do they update
            the map viewer quickly after a new release?

            I got a 76 instead of a 60 (and replacing my V) so I could have the
            detailed map segments along a 630 mi route I take between Northern NJ
            and Southeastern NC. Even selecting individual map segments along the
            route wouldn't allow it to fit into the 60's memory so I went with the
            76. If they blow the memory on the 76 for that route, I'll stick with
            CS6 and complain to Garmin. That would just stink.

            I'd imagine they could also lose a tremendous number of folks
            upgrading at $75 per pop if we all feel it impacts our ability to
            optimize the usage of the device.

            I'm hoping it's just the CN product assumes much more memory available.

            David

            On 8/1/05, Robert Lipe <robertlipe@...> wrote:
            > > I like the idea of map segments being on state boundaries though. With
            > > the current product you often have to select huge chunks you don't
            > > need or want.
            >
            > Help me resolve those two sentences. It seems that moving them to
            > state boundaries contributes to having to select huge chunks you don't
            > need or want.
            >
            > > No doubt someone here will find out soon enough. My assumption would
            > > be that the segmentation is the same since I've heard CN and CS are
            > > essentially the same maps but with CN having more detailed autorouting
            >
            > If that's true, units like the V with a scant 19MB of memory that
            > upgrade will suddenly find themselves with unhappy owners.
            >
            > Last night, I checked 'maps along a route' for a 2200 mile road trip.
            >
            > CN6: 119 maps totalling 192MB.
            > CN7: 20 maps totalling 315MB.
            >
            > So with CN7, this trip no longer fits on a 256MB card.
            >
            > Since all the CN devices have at least 128MB map memory and those
            > without hard drives are expandable (right?) perhaps they did decide to
            > make them different in this regard. With the recent trend to units
            > holding map data for an entire continent, perhaps different strategies
            > are in order compared to the turn-of-the-century models like the V.
            >
            > If not, this is a competitive advantage over Magellan that they just lost.
            >
            > It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in CS. So far, I
            > haven't heard of anyone receiving CS7 yet. (I wasn't planning to
            > update my copy of CS as I'm not $75 worth of unhappy with the map
            > data. Before I saw CN7, I'd considered burning my second unlock to
            > use it on my 60CS, but I now consider that unviable.)
          • Robert Lipe
            ... Yes, you can see the segment lines in the online viewer, but Garmin has not updated them to reflect the 7 version yet for either product. ... That s what
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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              On 8/1/05, David Levine <david_yahoo@...> wrote:
              > I'm really interested to see. Can we tell from what they put online in
              > the map viewer what the segment sizes are? And if so, do they update
              > the map viewer quickly after a new release?

              Yes, you can see the segment lines in the online viewer, but Garmin
              has not updated them to reflect the '7' version yet for either
              product.

              > I'm hoping it's just the CN product assumes much more memory available.

              That's what I was trying to get at. It's not an unreasonable
              assumption, but it's a little suprising. In the example I just gave,
              though, my unit _with_ more memory would have just gone from "enough"
              to "not enough", so it's not like even that crowd won't be annoyed.
            • David Levine
              Well, I emailed Garmin Tech Support just now and asked if they are making the same mistake with CS7 as has been reported with CN7 and if so, I won t be
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                Well, I emailed Garmin Tech Support just now and asked if they are
                making the same mistake with CS7 as has been reported with CN7 and if
                so, I won't be upgrading for the 1st time since CS4.

                I'll let everyone here know, assuming they do respond, with the info
                they provide back.

                I can't imagine most 60/76 folks upgrading unless they don't travel a
                substantial distance and optimized the memory usage by selecting only
                the required map segments along the route.

                David
              • Ludo
                Hi there, CS7 europe did not grow significantly in memory consumption of the same map area, with averagely the same number of map tiles . With my copy of CS7
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                  Hi there,

                  CS7 europe did not grow significantly in memory consumption of the same map area, with averagely the same number of map 'tiles'.
                  With my copy of CS7 it is still possible to make a very long trip (to a destination in Norway, 1200km) in a single 60C memory.

                  Ludo

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: David Levine
                  To: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:08 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Garmin_GPSmap_76C] Re: City Navigator NA v7 observations


                  Well, I emailed Garmin Tech Support just now and asked if they are
                  making the same mistake with CS7 as has been reported with CN7 and if
                  so, I won't be upgrading for the 1st time since CS4.

                  I'll let everyone here know, assuming they do respond, with the info
                  they provide back.

                  I can't imagine most 60/76 folks upgrading unless they don't travel a
                  substantial distance and optimized the memory usage by selecting only
                  the required map segments along the route.

                  David


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                • David Levine
                  Well I have a comparison of City Select 6, City Navigator 6 & City Navigator 7 for the same route (with the help of a fellow group member). When I get home,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                    Well I have a comparison of City Select 6, City Navigator 6 & City
                    Navigator 7 for the same route (with the help of a fellow group
                    member). When I get home, I'll post the info and screen shots. It's a
                    big difference going to CN7... I hope they don't muck up CS7 that same
                    way!

                    David
                  • annoyedone
                    ... No, the two things *could* be independent. You could have small or large chunks on state boundaries or not. The size of the chucks should be independent of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                      --- In Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com, Robert Lipe
                      <robertlipe@g...> wrote:

                      > Help me resolve those two sentences. It seems that moving them to
                      > state boundaries contributes to having to select huge chunks you
                      > don't need or want.

                      No, the two things *could* be independent. You could have small or
                      large chunks on state boundaries or not. The size of the chucks should
                      be independent of where they're placed.

                      We'll all simply have to wait for one person to get CS NA v7 and
                      either rant'n'rave that the chunks are too big or say its like CS NA
                      v6. Garmin doesn't make the information public but as they say "bad
                      news travels quickly" so if CS is the same as CN we'll all vote with
                      our wallets.
                    • David Levine
                      Here s a comparison, done in conjunction with a valued member of this group. A 640 mile route from Northern New Jersey to Southeastern North Carolina resulted
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 1, 2005
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                        Here's a comparison, done in conjunction with a valued member of this group.

                        A 640 mile route from Northern New Jersey to Southeastern North Carolina
                        resulted in the following:
                        City Select 6 - 33 maps - 57.8MB
                        City Navigator 6 - 33 maps - 58.9MB
                        City Navigator 7 - 7 maps - 105.7MB

                        The above was done by using the same route and having MapSource select the
                        necessary map segments to cover that route.

                        As you can see, both City Select 6 and City Navigator 6 are relatively
                        close. City Navigator 7 requires MUCH more space (nearly double) to cover
                        the same route. I sure hope City Select 7 does NOT have map segments as
                        large as CN7 does.

                        Here's a screen shot of each so you can compare the results of CS6 and CN7:
                        City Select 6
                        http://www.levinecentral.com/images/cs6.jpg
                        City Navigator 7
                        http://www.levinecentral.com/images/cn7.gif

                        As you can see the coverage area in the much larger map segments is
                        providing no value and certainly doing nothing to optimize memory of the
                        device. I've emailed Garmin Tech Support and asked if CS7 will use the same
                        HUGE map segments as CN7 does. I'll post back when/if they respond.

                        David

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Levine
                        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 3:53 PM
                        To: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Garmin_GPSmap_76C] Re: City Navigator NA v7 observations

                        Well I have a comparison of City Select 6, City Navigator 6 & City Navigator
                        7 for the same route (with the help of a fellow group member). When I get
                        home, I'll post the info and screen shots. It's a big difference going to
                        CN7... I hope they don't muck up CS7 that same way!

                        David
                      • David Levine
                        I emailed Garmin asking if City SELECT v7 will have the same large map segments as City NAVIGATOR v7 has. Their response, minus the standard prelude and
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 3, 2005
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                          I emailed Garmin asking if City SELECT v7 will have the same large map
                          segments as City NAVIGATOR v7 has. Their response, minus the standard
                          prelude and ending...

                          With each version of City Select or any of our software, they make changes.
                          When the changes are made it is possible the mapsets will enlarge even to
                          the amount you pointed out below.

                          I'd of course hope they didn't mess up and make City Select map segments
                          like City Navigator 7 map segments, but from their response, I'd say City
                          Select will very closely match City Navigitor's LARGE map segments. Bad move
                          Garmin!!

                          David

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Levine
                          Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:48 PM
                          To: Garmin_GPSmap_76C@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [Garmin_GPSmap_76C] Re: City Navigator NA v7 observations

                          Here's a comparison, done in conjunction with a valued member of this group.

                          A 640 mile route from Northern New Jersey to Southeastern North Carolina
                          resulted in the following:
                          City Select 6 - 33 maps - 57.8MB
                          City Navigator 6 - 33 maps - 58.9MB
                          City Navigator 7 - 7 maps - 105.7MB

                          The above was done by using the same route and having MapSource select the
                          necessary map segments to cover that route.

                          As you can see, both City Select 6 and City Navigator 6 are relatively
                          close. City Navigator 7 requires MUCH more space (nearly double) to cover
                          the same route. I sure hope City Select 7 does NOT have map segments as
                          large as CN7 does.

                          Here's a screen shot of each so you can compare the results of CS6 and CN7:
                          City Select 6
                          http://www.levinecentral.com/images/cs6.jpg
                          City Navigator 7
                          http://www.levinecentral.com/images/cn7.gif

                          As you can see the coverage area in the much larger map segments is
                          providing no value and certainly doing nothing to optimize memory of the
                          device. I've emailed Garmin Tech Support and asked if CS7 will use the same
                          HUGE map segments as CN7 does. I'll post back when/if they respond.

                          David
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