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Re: Transliteration of Russian Cyrillic

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  • Ron
    Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage. Remaining, addressing
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
      Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.

      Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.

      PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!

      --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
      > >
      > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
      > >
      > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
      >
      >
      > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Ron
      >
      > _______
      >
      > Lavrentiy
      >
      >
      > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello John,
      > > >
      > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
      > > >
      > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
      > > >
      > > > ________
      > > >
      > > > Lavrentiy
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Laurence
      / Here s a good.... How many spellings does this man s name have in English?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs _________ Lavrentiy
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
        /


        Here's a good....


        How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs


        _________

        Lavrentiy


        --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
        >
        > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
        >
        > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
        >
        > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
        > > >
        > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
        > > >
        > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
        > >
        > >
        > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Ron
        > >
        > > _______
        > >
        > > Lavrentiy
        > >
        > >
        > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello John,
        > > > >
        > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
        > > > >
        > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
        > > > >
        > > > > ________
        > > > >
        > > > > Lavrentiy
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Laurence
        ... Here s a good one.... How many spellings does this man s name have in English?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs _________ Lavrentiy
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
          ---

          Here's a good one....


          How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs


          _________

          Lavrentiy





          > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
          > >
          > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
          > >
          > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
          > >
          > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
          > > > >
          > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
          > > > >
          > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Ron
          > > >
          > > > _______
          > > >
          > > > Lavrentiy
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hello John,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ________
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Lavrentiy
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Laurence
          / Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296 /
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
            /


            Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:


            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296


            /


            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > ---
            >
            > Here's a good one....
            >
            >
            > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
            >
            >
            > _________
            >
            > Lavrentiy
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
            > > >
            > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
            > > >
            > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
            > > >
            > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Ron
            > > > >
            > > > > _______
            > > > >
            > > > > Lavrentiy
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hello John,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ________
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Lavrentiy
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Edward
            I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
              I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.

              I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.

              Ed Potereiko

              On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:

              > /
              >
              > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
              >
              > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
              >
              > /
              >
              > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---
              > >
              > > Here's a good one....
              > >
              > >
              > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
              > >
              > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
              > >
              > >
              > > _________
              > >
              > > Lavrentiy
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
              > > > >
              > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
              > > > >
              > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Ron
              > > > > >
              > > > > > _______
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Lavrentiy
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Hello John,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > ________
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Laurence
              Ed, Excellent advice. BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr s last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources: Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
                Ed,

                Excellent advice.

                BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr's last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources:

                Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
                Tschaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                Tchaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                Ciaikovsky, Pjotr Iljc
                Cajkovskij, Petr Il'ic
                Tsjaikovsky, Peter Iljitsj
                Czajkowski, Piotr
                Chaikovsky, P. I.
                Csajkovszkij, Pjotr Iljics
                Tsjaïkovskiej, Pjotr Iljietsj
                Tjajkovskij, Pjotr Ilitj
                Čaikovskis, P.
                Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr Il'ich
                Tchaikovski, Piotr
                Tchaikovski, Piotr Ilyitch,
                Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr
                Tchaikovsky, Peter
                Tchaïkovsky, Piotr Ilitch
                Tschaikowsky, Pjotr Iljitsch
                Tschajkowskij, Pjotr Iljitsch
                Tchaïkovski, P. I.
                Ciaikovskij, Piotr
                Ciaikovskji, Piotr Ilijich
                Tschaikowski, Peter Illic
                Tjajkovskij, Peter
                Chaĭkovski, P'otr Ilich,
                Tschaikousky
                Tschaijkowskij, P. I.
                Tschaikowsky, P. I.
                Chaĭkovski, Piotr Ilich
                Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Ilyich
                Čajkovskij, Pëtr Ilič
                Tschaikovsky, Peter Ilyich
                Tchaikofsky, Peter Ilyitch
                Tciaikowski, P.
                Tchaïkovski, Petr Ilitch
                Ciaikovski, Peter Ilic
                Tschaikowski, Pjotr
                Tchaikowsky, Pyotr
                Tchaikovskij, Piotr Ilic


                http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/forum/forum0059.html


                Imagine if Piotr was on a US agency terrorist "watch list."
                __________

                Lavrentiy


                --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Edward <epotereiko9@...> wrote:
                >
                > I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.
                >
                > I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.
                >
                > Ed Potereiko
                >
                > On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                >
                > > /
                > >
                > > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
                > >
                > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
                > >
                > > /
                > >
                > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ---
                > > >
                > > > Here's a good one....
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                > > >
                > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > _________
                > > >
                > > > Lavrentiy
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Ron
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > _______
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Hello John,
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > ________
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                > > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
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                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
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                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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              • Laurence
                / Just marvel his music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bb2enlEUXY&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296 /
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
                  /


                  Just marvel his music:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bb2enlEUXY&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296




                  /

                  --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ed,
                  >
                  > Excellent advice.
                  >
                  > BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr's last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources:
                  >
                  > Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
                  > Tschaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                  > Tchaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                  > Ciaikovsky, Pjotr Iljc
                  > Cajkovskij, Petr Il'ic
                  > Tsjaikovsky, Peter Iljitsj
                  > Czajkowski, Piotr
                  > Chaikovsky, P. I.
                  > Csajkovszkij, Pjotr Iljics
                  > Tsjaïkovskiej, Pjotr Iljietsj
                  > Tjajkovskij, Pjotr Ilitj
                  > Čaikovskis, P.
                  > Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr Il'ich
                  > Tchaikovski, Piotr
                  > Tchaikovski, Piotr Ilyitch,
                  > Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr
                  > Tchaikovsky, Peter
                  > Tchaïkovsky, Piotr Ilitch
                  > Tschaikowsky, Pjotr Iljitsch
                  > Tschajkowskij, Pjotr Iljitsch
                  > Tchaïkovski, P. I.
                  > Ciaikovskij, Piotr
                  > Ciaikovskji, Piotr Ilijich
                  > Tschaikowski, Peter Illic
                  > Tjajkovskij, Peter
                  > Chaĭkovski, P'otr Ilich,
                  > Tschaikousky
                  > Tschaijkowskij, P. I.
                  > Tschaikowsky, P. I.
                  > Chaĭkovski, Piotr Ilich
                  > Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Ilyich
                  > Čajkovskij, Pëtr Ilič
                  > Tschaikovsky, Peter Ilyich
                  > Tchaikofsky, Peter Ilyitch
                  > Tciaikowski, P.
                  > Tchaïkovski, Petr Ilitch
                  > Ciaikovski, Peter Ilic
                  > Tschaikowski, Pjotr
                  > Tchaikowsky, Pyotr
                  > Tchaikovskij, Piotr Ilic
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/forum/forum0059.html
                  >
                  >
                  > Imagine if Piotr was on a US agency terrorist "watch list."
                  > __________
                  >
                  > Lavrentiy
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Edward <epotereiko9@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.
                  > >
                  > > I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.
                  > >
                  > > Ed Potereiko
                  > >
                  > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > /
                  > > >
                  > > > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
                  > > >
                  > > > /
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Here's a good one....
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > _________
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Lavrentiy
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > Ron
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > _______
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > Hello John,
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > ________
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
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