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Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Kalusz

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  • Brad Kitz
    Hi Fred Kitz came from Galicia to Sask, Canada. But I dont know exactly where from. thats as far As i got. ________________________________ From: Laurence
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 24, 2013
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      Hi

      Fred Kitz came from Galicia to Sask, Canada. But I dont know exactly where from. thats as far As i got.


      ________________________________
      From: Laurence Krupnak <Lkrupnak@...>
      To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 1:28 PM
      Subject: Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Kalusz



       
      /

      If the Kitz (Kits) family is Ukrainian, I'm not sure what the root of the surname is. The Polish word kycia means cat.

      _____

      Lavrentiy

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Laurence
      / Kitz/Kytz/Kits/Kitz seems to be a very rare Ukrainian surname. The only one I found so far via google is Andrey Kytz: Illegal immigration facilitator jailed
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 24, 2013
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        /


        Kitz/Kytz/Kits/Kitz seems to be a very rare Ukrainian surname.

        The only one I found so far via google is Andrey Kytz:


        Illegal immigration facilitator jailed

        The head of an organised crime group (Andrey Kitz) who facilitated the entry of Ukrainian illegal immigrants into the UK by private yachts and scheduled flights has been sentenced to eight and a half years.


        http://www.neighbourhoodwatch.net/index.php?func=PageStory&Type=News&StoryId=5237


        _____

        Lavrentiy




        --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Brad Kitz <b.kitz07@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi
        >
        > Fred Kitz came from Galicia to Sask, Canada. But I dont know exactly where from. thats as far As i got.
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Laurence Krupnak <Lkrupnak@...>
        > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 1:28 PM
        > Subject: Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Kalusz
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        > /
        >
        > If the Kitz (Kits) family is Ukrainian, I'm not sure what the root of the surname is. The Polish word kycia means cat.
        >
        > _____
        >
        > Lavrentiy
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Laurence
        / It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 24, 2013
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          /


          It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.



          ________

          Lavrentiy


          --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
          >
          > /
          >
          >
          > Kitz/Kytz/Kits/Kitz seems to be a very rare Ukrainian surname.
          >
          > The only one I found so far via google is Andrey Kytz:
          >
          >
          > Illegal immigration facilitator jailed
          >
          > The head of an organised crime group (Andrey Kitz) who facilitated the entry of Ukrainian illegal immigrants into the UK by private yachts and scheduled flights has been sentenced to eight and a half years.
          >
          >
          > http://www.neighbourhoodwatch.net/index.php?func=PageStory&Type=News&StoryId=5237
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > Lavrentiy
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Brad Kitz <b.kitz07@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi
          > >
          > > Fred Kitz came from Galicia to Sask, Canada. But I dont know exactly where from. thats as far As i got.
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Laurence Krupnak <Lkrupnak@>
          > > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 1:28 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Kalusz
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > > /
          > >
          > > If the Kitz (Kits) family is Ukrainian, I'm not sure what the root of the surname is. The Polish word kycia means cat.
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > > Lavrentiy
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • Laurence
          ... Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 24, 2013
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            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
            >
            > /
            >
            >
            > It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.


            Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was deported to the Ukraine. He then changed his name to Andrey Kytz, applied for a new passport and falsely obtained a UK Visa. This enabled him to set up a smuggling operation between the two countries.


            BTW, different transliteration systems allowed the two Chenchen terrorists (Boston bombers) to get around detection on FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/FAA watch lists.









            >
            >
            >
            > ________
            >
            > Lavrentiy
            >
            >
            > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
            > >
            > > /
            > >
            > >
            > > Kitz/Kytz/Kits/Kitz seems to be a very rare Ukrainian surname.
            > >
            > > The only one I found so far via google is Andrey Kytz:
            > >
            > >
            > > Illegal immigration facilitator jailed
            > >
            > > The head of an organised crime group (Andrey Kitz) who facilitated the entry of Ukrainian illegal immigrants into the UK by private yachts and scheduled flights has been sentenced to eight and a half years.
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.neighbourhoodwatch.net/index.php?func=PageStory&Type=News&StoryId=5237
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > Lavrentiy
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Brad Kitz <b.kitz07@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi
            > > >
            > > > Fred Kitz came from Galicia to Sask, Canada. But I dont know exactly where from. thats as far As i got.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: Laurence Krupnak <Lkrupnak@>
            > > > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 1:28 PM
            > > > Subject: Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Kalusz
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >  
            > > > /
            > > >
            > > > If the Kitz (Kits) family is Ukrainian, I'm not sure what the root of the surname is. The Polish word kycia means cat.
            > > >
            > > > _____
            > > >
            > > > Lavrentiy
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Laurence
            ... Russia warned US of Chechen immigrants http://rt.com/op-edge/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-caucuses-122/ /
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 24, 2013
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              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
              > >
              > > /
              > >
              > >
              > > It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.
              >
              >
              > Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was deported to the Ukraine. He then changed his name to Andrey Kytz, applied for a new passport and falsely obtained a UK Visa. This enabled him to set up a smuggling operation between the two countries.
              >
              >
              > BTW, different transliteration systems allowed the two Chenchen terrorists (Boston bombers) to get around detection on FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/FAA watch lists.



              Russia warned US of Chechen immigrants'



              http://rt.com/op-edge/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-caucuses-122/


              /
            • Laurence
              / .. in late September 2011, Russia separately contacted the CIA with nearly identical concerns about Tsarnaev. The Russians provided two possible birthdates
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 25, 2013
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                /

                .. in late September 2011, Russia separately contacted the CIA with nearly identical concerns about Tsarnaev. The Russians provided two possible birthdates for him and a variation of how his name might be spelled, as well as the spelling in the Russian-style Cyrillic alphabet.



                Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/tamerlan-tsarnaev-s-name-in-terrorism-database-before-boston-bombings-87932.html#ixzz2RU8uMaZs


                /

                --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > /
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.
                > >
                > >
                > > Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was deported to the Ukraine. He then changed his name to Andrey Kytz, applied for a new passport and falsely obtained a UK Visa. This enabled him to set up a smuggling operation between the two countries.
                > >
                > >
                > > BTW, different transliteration systems allowed the two Chenchen terrorists (Boston bombers) to get around detection on FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/FAA watch lists.
                >
                >
                >
                > Russia warned US of Chechen immigrants'
                >
                >
                >
                > http://rt.com/op-edge/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-caucuses-122/
                >
                >
                > /
                >
              • Laurence
                / Cyrillic spellings of the family and given names: http://www.vestikavkaza.ru/
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 25, 2013
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                  /

                  Cyrillic spellings of the family and given names:

                  http://www.vestikavkaza.ru/

                  /////


                  --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > /
                  >
                  > .. in late September 2011, Russia separately contacted the CIA with nearly identical concerns about Tsarnaev. The Russians provided two possible birthdates for him and a variation of how his name might be spelled, as well as the spelling in the Russian-style Cyrillic alphabet.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/tamerlan-tsarnaev-s-name-in-terrorism-database-before-boston-bombings-87932.html#ixzz2RU8uMaZs
                  >
                  >
                  > /
                  >
                  > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > /
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was deported to the Ukraine. He then changed his name to Andrey Kytz, applied for a new passport and falsely obtained a UK Visa. This enabled him to set up a smuggling operation between the two countries.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW, different transliteration systems allowed the two Chenchen terrorists (Boston bombers) to get around detection on FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/FAA watch lists.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Russia warned US of Chechen immigrants'
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://rt.com/op-edge/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-caucuses-122/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > /
                  > >
                  >
                • Laurence
                  / Various Romanization (transliteration) systems for Cyrillic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Russian
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 25, 2013
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                    /

                    Various Romanization (transliteration) systems for Cyrillic:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Russian

                    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary_talk:Russian_transliteration


                    /

                    --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > /
                    >
                    > Cyrillic spellings of the family and given names:
                    >
                    > http://www.vestikavkaza.ru/
                    >
                    > /////
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > /
                    > >
                    > > .. in late September 2011, Russia separately contacted the CIA with nearly identical concerns about Tsarnaev. The Russians provided two possible birthdates for him and a variation of how his name might be spelled, as well as the spelling in the Russian-style Cyrillic alphabet.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/tamerlan-tsarnaev-s-name-in-terrorism-database-before-boston-bombings-87932.html#ixzz2RU8uMaZs
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > /
                    > >
                    > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > /
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It is my opinion that the surname in English is Kuts (Germans would use Kutz). ts/tz represents one Cyrillic letter. Andrey changed his name from Kutz to Kytz.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Andrey Kytz had been convicted of people smuggling in Miami (Florida) in 2005 and served nine months in jail under the name Andrey Kuts. On release, he was deported to the Ukraine. He then changed his name to Andrey Kytz, applied for a new passport and falsely obtained a UK Visa. This enabled him to set up a smuggling operation between the two countries.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > BTW, different transliteration systems allowed the two Chenchen terrorists (Boston bombers) to get around detection on FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/FAA watch lists.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Russia warned US of Chechen immigrants'
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > http://rt.com/op-edge/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-caucuses-122/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > /
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • John Mansfield
                    Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                      Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Laurence
                      Hello John, There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                        Hello John,

                        There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:

                        http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html

                        ________

                        Lavrentiy



                        --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • almrauscher1
                        Not so sure. NOT So Sure on that answer that there is only One way to spell names in Cyrillic- Вінницька область-Vinnytsia Oblast
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                          Not so sure.
                          NOT So Sure on that answer that there is only One way to spell names in Cyrillic-
                          Вінницька область-Vinnytsia Oblast
                          Вінницька область -Vinnyts’ka oblast’-
                          Винница Vinnytsia, VINNITSA, VINNITSYA, VINNYTSIA, VINNYTSYA,VINNICA,VINNICIA

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Laurence
                          To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:19 AM
                          Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Transliteration of Russian Cyrillic



                          Hello John,

                          There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:

                          http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html

                          ________

                          Lavrentiy

                          --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ron
                          Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian,
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                            Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?

                            I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.

                            Can you clarify your statement a bit?

                            Ron

                            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello John,
                            >
                            > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                            >
                            > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                            >
                            > ________
                            >
                            > Lavrentiy
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • Laurence
                            Hello, You are giving spelling for different grammatical cases. The nominative case has only one spelling. ________ Lavrentiy
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                              Hello,

                              You are giving spelling for different grammatical cases.

                              The nominative case has only one spelling.

                              ________

                              Lavrentiy





                              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "almrauscher1" <almrauscher1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Not so sure.
                              > NOT So Sure on that answer that there is only One way to spell names in Cyrillic-
                              > Ð'інницька область-Vinnytsia Oblast
                              > Ð'інницька область -Vinnyts’ka oblast’-
                              > Ð'инница Vinnytsia, VINNITSA, VINNITSYA, VINNYTSIA, VINNYTSYA,VINNICA,VINNICIA
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Laurence
                              > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:19 AM
                              > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Transliteration of Russian Cyrillic
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello John,
                              >
                              > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                              >
                              > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                              >
                              > ________
                              >
                              > Lavrentiy
                              >
                              > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Laurence
                              ... I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                                --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                >
                                > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                >
                                > Can you clarify your statement a bit?


                                I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.


                                >
                                > Ron

                                _______

                                Lavrentiy


                                > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello John,
                                > >
                                > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                > >
                                > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                > >
                                > > ________
                                > >
                                > > Lavrentiy
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Ron
                                Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage. Remaining, addressing
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                                  Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.

                                  Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.

                                  PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!

                                  --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                  > >
                                  > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                  > >
                                  > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > Ron
                                  >
                                  > _______
                                  >
                                  > Lavrentiy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hello John,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ________
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Lavrentiy
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Laurence
                                  / Here s a good.... How many spellings does this man s name have in English?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs _________ Lavrentiy
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                                    /


                                    Here's a good....


                                    How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs


                                    _________

                                    Lavrentiy


                                    --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                    >
                                    > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                    >
                                    > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                    >
                                    > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ron
                                    > >
                                    > > _______
                                    > >
                                    > > Lavrentiy
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hello John,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ________
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Lavrentiy
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Laurence
                                    ... Here s a good one.... How many spellings does this man s name have in English?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs _________ Lavrentiy
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                                      ---

                                      Here's a good one....


                                      How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs


                                      _________

                                      Lavrentiy





                                      > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                      > >
                                      > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                      > >
                                      > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Ron
                                      > > >
                                      > > > _______
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Lavrentiy
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Hello John,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ________
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Laurence
                                      / Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296 /
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 28, 2013
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                                        /


                                        Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:


                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296


                                        /


                                        --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---
                                        >
                                        > Here's a good one....
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > _________
                                        >
                                        > Lavrentiy
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Ron
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > _______
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Lavrentiy
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Hello John,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ________
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Edward
                                        I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
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                                          I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.

                                          I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.

                                          Ed Potereiko

                                          On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:

                                          > /
                                          >
                                          > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
                                          >
                                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
                                          >
                                          > /
                                          >
                                          > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ---
                                          > >
                                          > > Here's a good one....
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                                          > >
                                          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > _________
                                          > >
                                          > > Lavrentiy
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Ron
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > _______
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Hello John,
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > ________
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Laurence
                                          Ed, Excellent advice. BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr s last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources: Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
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                                            Ed,

                                            Excellent advice.

                                            BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr's last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources:

                                            Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
                                            Tschaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                                            Tchaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                                            Ciaikovsky, Pjotr Iljc
                                            Cajkovskij, Petr Il'ic
                                            Tsjaikovsky, Peter Iljitsj
                                            Czajkowski, Piotr
                                            Chaikovsky, P. I.
                                            Csajkovszkij, Pjotr Iljics
                                            Tsjaïkovskiej, Pjotr Iljietsj
                                            Tjajkovskij, Pjotr Ilitj
                                            Čaikovskis, P.
                                            Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr Il'ich
                                            Tchaikovski, Piotr
                                            Tchaikovski, Piotr Ilyitch,
                                            Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr
                                            Tchaikovsky, Peter
                                            Tchaïkovsky, Piotr Ilitch
                                            Tschaikowsky, Pjotr Iljitsch
                                            Tschajkowskij, Pjotr Iljitsch
                                            Tchaïkovski, P. I.
                                            Ciaikovskij, Piotr
                                            Ciaikovskji, Piotr Ilijich
                                            Tschaikowski, Peter Illic
                                            Tjajkovskij, Peter
                                            Chaĭkovski, P'otr Ilich,
                                            Tschaikousky
                                            Tschaijkowskij, P. I.
                                            Tschaikowsky, P. I.
                                            Chaĭkovski, Piotr Ilich
                                            Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Ilyich
                                            Čajkovskij, Pëtr Ilič
                                            Tschaikovsky, Peter Ilyich
                                            Tchaikofsky, Peter Ilyitch
                                            Tciaikowski, P.
                                            Tchaïkovski, Petr Ilitch
                                            Ciaikovski, Peter Ilic
                                            Tschaikowski, Pjotr
                                            Tchaikowsky, Pyotr
                                            Tchaikovskij, Piotr Ilic


                                            http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/forum/forum0059.html


                                            Imagine if Piotr was on a US agency terrorist "watch list."
                                            __________

                                            Lavrentiy


                                            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Edward <epotereiko9@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.
                                            >
                                            > I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.
                                            >
                                            > Ed Potereiko
                                            >
                                            > On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > /
                                            > >
                                            > > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
                                            > >
                                            > > /
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ---
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Here's a good one....
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > _________
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Lavrentiy
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Ron
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > _______
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Hello John,
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > ________
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • Laurence
                                            / Just marvel his music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bb2enlEUXY&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296 /
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              /


                                              Just marvel his music:

                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bb2enlEUXY&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296




                                              /

                                              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Ed,
                                              >
                                              > Excellent advice.
                                              >
                                              > BTW, here are the English spellings of Piotr's last name which appear in US Library of Congress resources:
                                              >
                                              > Ciaikovsky, Piotr Ilic
                                              > Tschaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                                              > Tchaikowsky, Peter Iljitch
                                              > Ciaikovsky, Pjotr Iljc
                                              > Cajkovskij, Petr Il'ic
                                              > Tsjaikovsky, Peter Iljitsj
                                              > Czajkowski, Piotr
                                              > Chaikovsky, P. I.
                                              > Csajkovszkij, Pjotr Iljics
                                              > Tsjaïkovskiej, Pjotr Iljietsj
                                              > Tjajkovskij, Pjotr Ilitj
                                              > Čaikovskis, P.
                                              > Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr Il'ich
                                              > Tchaikovski, Piotr
                                              > Tchaikovski, Piotr Ilyitch,
                                              > Chaĭkovskiĭ, Petr
                                              > Tchaikovsky, Peter
                                              > Tchaïkovsky, Piotr Ilitch
                                              > Tschaikowsky, Pjotr Iljitsch
                                              > Tschajkowskij, Pjotr Iljitsch
                                              > Tchaïkovski, P. I.
                                              > Ciaikovskij, Piotr
                                              > Ciaikovskji, Piotr Ilijich
                                              > Tschaikowski, Peter Illic
                                              > Tjajkovskij, Peter
                                              > Chaĭkovski, P'otr Ilich,
                                              > Tschaikousky
                                              > Tschaijkowskij, P. I.
                                              > Tschaikowsky, P. I.
                                              > Chaĭkovski, Piotr Ilich
                                              > Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Ilyich
                                              > Čajkovskij, Pëtr Ilič
                                              > Tschaikovsky, Peter Ilyich
                                              > Tchaikofsky, Peter Ilyitch
                                              > Tciaikowski, P.
                                              > Tchaïkovski, Petr Ilitch
                                              > Ciaikovski, Peter Ilic
                                              > Tschaikowski, Pjotr
                                              > Tchaikowsky, Pyotr
                                              > Tchaikovskij, Piotr Ilic
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/forum/forum0059.html
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Imagine if Piotr was on a US agency terrorist "watch list."
                                              > __________
                                              >
                                              > Lavrentiy
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Edward <epotereiko9@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I like this discussion. As far as I am concerned, the only good system is to learn some basic Cyrillic in the language you are interested in and some of the other languages the names may have been written in in the various possible source documents you may need to research, learn how to pronounce them, and then write down the English transliterations you encounter, and finally put down in your genealogy program and chart, the original Cyrillic/native/birth form of the name (or place) and then put into Notes all the variations you have encountered.
                                              > >
                                              > > I am using PAF, and since PAF Companion (the very inexpensive box chart program supplement) has adopted Unicode, I can now type the Americanized version, with the Cyrillic version in parentheses, and have both show up in my charts, in addition to being in the PAF database.
                                              > >
                                              > > Ed Potereiko
                                              > >
                                              > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > /
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Chaikovskiy also wrote beautiful Russian Orthodox liturgical music:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rump2-cOvcc&playnext=1&list=PL55BA24BA62CFE296
                                              > > >
                                              > > > /
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > ---
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Here's a good one....
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > How many spellings does this man's name have in English?:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsGRglp6tvs
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > _________
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Lavrentiy
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Thanks. The larger sense of your meaning came through in your posting about the variations in spelling denoting different case usage.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Remaining, addressing this to the group generally, is how many spelling or literary reforms have taken place in the last 150 years. Let us chose Russian as an example that may be easiest to address.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > PS. If people want to improve our American schools we can change to metric measures and rationalize our spelling system in America. That would release much time for more important studies!
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Are you telling us that Cyrillic is so uniform that there is one way only to spell names (and implicitly, words) in that alphabet? In Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Rusyn? That all writers in Cyrillic have remained consistent throughout various writing reforms and changes in the alphabets over time, across cultural borders, and despite various languages adapting or dropping different letters over time?
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > I can believe that as readily as I can the French man who told me that yes, French clearly pronounce EVERY letter in every word of their language! My ear is simply not so tuned.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Can you clarify your statement a bit?
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > I should have included that within a specific language which uses Cyrillic there only one spelling. Indeed, there are (minor) differences of spellings among the different languages which us Cyrillic.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Ron
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > _______
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Hello John,
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > There is only one way to spell names in Cyrillic. What needs to be done is that all English-speaking nations need to use only one method of transliteration (Romanization of Cyrllic). The so called International system (also called the scientific or the European system) which is loosely based on the International Phonetic Alphabet should NOT be used. The main problem with the International system is that commonly used type systems cannot render diacritical marks. See:
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > ________
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Mansfield <JMANSFIE@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Maybe the Russians could have used Soundex!
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
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